Weight lifting question.

[Rakim]

I've been doing nothing but compound routines for the last year or so, today I tried a load of isolation stuff just for a change. I did flyes, reverse forearm curls, tricep pushdowns, lat raises, and curls. All for 3 sets of 9 reps.

I'm just wondering, is there any advantage at all in doing these instead of compound stuff? For example, which is better for muscle growth in the triceps and pecs; bench press, or a combination of both flyes and pushdowns?

Cheers in advance, lads.

[viru§™]

I've been doing nothing but compound routines for the last year or so, today I tried a load of isolation stuff just for a change. I did flyes
Pointless.

reverse forearm curls
If you want big, strong forearms do lifts which require a strong grip i.e. deadlift, weighted pull/chinups etc.

tricep pushdowns

It takes a lot of weight to activate all three heads of the triceps and induce maximum hypertrophy. Dips and close grip bench press are best.

lat raises, and curls
Both are pointless unless you are correcting muscle imbalances.

I'm just wondering, is there any advantage at all in doing these instead of compound stuff? For example, which is better for muscle growth in the triceps and pecs; bench press, or a combination of both flyes and pushdowns?
Unless you're a bodybuilder taking vitamin S, no.

Muscle growth is systemic. A single muscle won't grow much unless the surrounding muscles grow as well. I don't bother with isolation for this very reason.

[Rakim]

Pointless.

If you want big, strong forearms do lifts which require a strong grip i.e. deadlift, weighted pull/chinups etc.

It takes a lot of weight to activate all three heads of the triceps and induce maximum hypertrophy. Dips and close grip bench press are best.

Both are pointless unless you are correcting muscle imbalances.

Unless you're a bodybuilder taking vitamin S, no.




Perfect. I was hoping for a reply from both you and Jazzo, so if he says the same thing I'll go back to my compound stuff. I definitely missed the pain of doing deadlifts and squats.

Cheers mate :good

[viktorkrupp]

isolation is for bodybuilders and rehabing <PERIOD>
you want to be able to engage your muscles together to fight.

For example have you seen someone with great punching but lousy footwork? Their bodies don't work as a unit, isolation excercises exagerate this, that's why meatheads make lousy fighters.

[Rakim]

isolation is for bodybuilders and rehabing <PERIOD>
you want to be able to engage your muscles together to fight.

For example have you seen someone with great punching but lousy footwork? Their bodies don't work as a unit, isolation excercises exagerate this, that's why meatheads make lousy fighters.



I don't box, this was just a question about muscle growth really. Cheers though.

[viktorkrupp]

Sorry man, I get on a rant sometimes. :)

[boxingtactics07]

towel pullups help for stronger forearms, knuckle pushups help with hands, finger pushups help with fingers, regular pushups help for palm, incline bench press helps with chest, parallel bar dips and french press help with triceps, bent over rows with biceps, lunges instead of leg curl, step-ups instead of leg extension, squats instead of leg press, etc. The only isolation I remember worth using were Barbell Shrugs. I haven't done any weight lifting in a long because boxing overtook that, but now that im out of boxing... I was thinking of following a "boxercise" program at home 5 days a week and trying crossfit.com as an addition to that. IE: Monday-Friday: 2-3 mile run, 15 minutes of jump-rope, 10 rounds various bag-work, pushups, situps, pullups. Then follow crossfit for the day as it's shown (as an addition, not a replacement). I don't like general weight-lifting programs like 5X5 strength and 3X10 bodybuilding... weights just got old & boring after reaping the initial hypertrophy & strength benefits.

[younghypnotiq]

Pointless.


If you want big, strong forearms do lifts which require a strong grip i.e. deadlift, weighted pull/chinups etc.



It takes a lot of weight to activate all three heads of the triceps and induce maximum hypertrophy. Dips and close grip bench press are best.


Both are pointless unless you are correcting muscle imbalances.


Unless you're a bodybuilder taking vitamin S, no.

Muscle growth is systemic. A single muscle won't grow much unless the surrounding muscles grow as well. I don't bother with isolation for this very reason.

your sucha fucking moron. their not pointless. they just arent as effective as compound lifts generally. you are so one sided its hiliarious. back on topic. stick to compound lifts unless you have a muscle imbalance.

[younghypnotiq]

isolation is for bodybuilders and rehabing <PERIOD>
you want to be able to engage your muscles together to fight.

For example have you seen someone with great punching but lousy footwork? Their bodies don't work as a unit, isolation excercises exagerate this, that's why meatheads make lousy fighters.

im sure ronnie coleman would kick the shit out of most fighters. meat heads actually do make good fighters since they are so strong. also most meat heads dont use mostly isolation excercises u moron. im assuming by meathead u mean a body builder, powerlifter, or a football player or somethingi. all those guys use mostly compound lifts.

[boxingtactics07]

I don't know if that was the best example. Ronnie coleman is too big and too slow and would definitely hurt someone if he connected on the inside. As far as being a fighter though, he would be lousy as viktor said.

[younghypnotiq]

bro. if you takea top power lifter or top olypic lifter they could fuck alot of people up. they would not makea bad fighter. that is a stupid thing to say. obviously with no training they would be just as bad as tyson would be with no training.

[viru§™]

your sucha fucking moron. their not pointless. they just arent as effective as compound lifts generally. you are so one sided its hiliarious. back on topic. stick to compound lifts unless you have a muscle imbalance.
Explain to me the reasons for doing curls over chinups.

And I like the way you call me a moron then repeat the advice I gave.

[younghypnotiq]

because they competly isolate it. i said ur a moron beacuse u always talk in absolutes. like isolation is pointless. no they are not. if they were pointless then the top bodybuilders wouldnt be doing them

[viru§™]

because they competly isolate it. i said ur a moron beacuse u always talk in absolutes. like isolation is pointless. no they are not. if they were pointless then the top bodybuilders wouldnt be doing them
In reference to isolation vs compound lifts I said -

Unless you're a bodybuilder taking vitamin S, no.
Reading comprehension is awesome.

Like vik said - isolation is for bodybuilding and rehab only.
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[scurlaruntings]

Perfect. I was hoping for a reply from both you and Jazzo, so if he says the same thing I'll go back to my compound stuff. I definitely missed the pain of doing deadlifts and squats.

Cheers mate :goodYo mutherfucka if you want advice you talk to ME!

[Rakim]

Yo mutherfucka if you want advice you talk to ME!




:lol: I know you'd be able to answer me as well but you hardly ever post in here.

[Rakim]

because they competly isolate it. i said ur a moron beacuse u always talk in absolutes. like isolation is pointless. no they are not. if they were pointless then the top bodybuilders wouldnt be doing them



I don't think he's saying they're pointless, because they're obviously better than nothing. He means that if it's a choice between isolation stuff and compound stuff, then the latter is better. Unless, like you said, you're correcting a muscle imbalance.

[MrSmall]

I don't think he's saying they're pointless, because they're obviously better than nothing. He means that if it's a choice between isolation stuff and compound stuff, then the latter is better. Unless, like you said, you're correcting a muscle imbalance.

That's like saying you'd prefer to be ginger than dead.
Weak, dude.

[scurlaruntings]

:lol: I know you'd be able to answer me as well but you hardly ever post in here.Thats because theres too many clowns in this forum that havent got a freaking clue about what there talking about.

[MrMagic]

Thats because theres too many clowns in this forum that havent got a freaking clue about what there talking about.
:amen

[Rakim]

Thats because theres too many clowns in this forum that havent got a freaking clue about what there talking about.



True, but surely that's even more reason for you to help people out.

[Rakim]

That's like saying you'd prefer to be ginger than dead.
Weak, dude.



I'd never say something that ridiculous.

[viktorkrupp]

at one point I trained with a BB style workout, I had taken some time off boxing, and began to workout for size. I continued to train boxing bud it was not my focus. When I came back to focus on boxing I had gained a signifigant amount of muscle, but lost some coordination, speed and overall skill, that I had to gain back. It takes a lot of time to teach your body how to use muscle effectively, since an increase in mass will affect your biomechanics, you have to "retrain" your technique. It is my experience that isolation excercises provided little net gain, and great net loss in boxing ability.

[scurlaruntings]

True, but surely that's even more reason for you to help people out.Correct but only if someones looking for advice. Advise that is incorrect is simply stupid advice. Therefore take most of the opinions here with a pinch of salt.

[scurlaruntings]

at one point I trained with a BB style workout, I had taken some time off boxing, and began to workout for size. I continued to train boxing bud it was not my focus. When I came back to focus on boxing I had gained a signifigant amount of muscle, but lost some coordination, speed and overall skill, that I had to gain back. It takes a lot of time to teach your body how to use muscle effectively, since an increase in mass will affect your biomechanics, you have to "retrain" your technique. It is my experience that isolation excercises provided little net gain, and great net loss in boxing ability.It does but functional muscle is not the same as muscle mass and vice versa. Naturally its better to have muscle mass than fats but untrained muscle that is not sport specific is inherently useless. I assure you if you had continued to do a bodybuilding regime and boxed as the same time you would have seen an increase in performance when boxing. BUT both activities negate each other as one is anaerobic and one is aerobic. Thus building mass would be much harder, BUT the mass you would build at the same time would be par excellent with very little excess weight water of fats. Muscle memory never takes that much longer to retain. Once the neural pathways are built they only degenerate with age but can easily be rebuilt in a matter of weeks with a sound training regime and dedication.

[PaddyD1983]

that's why meatheads make lousy fighters.

:rofl

:good

[viktorkrupp]

It does but functional muscle is not the same as muscle mass and vice versa. Naturally its better to have muscle mass than fats but untrained muscle that is not sport specific is inherently useless. I assure you if you had continued to do a bodybuilding regime and boxed as the same time you would have seen an increase in performance when boxing. BUT both activities negate each other as one is anaerobic and one is aerobic. Thus building mass would be much harder, BUT the mass you would build at the same time would be par excellent with very little excess weight water of fats. Muscle memory never takes that much longer to retain. Once the neural pathways are built they only degenerate with age but can easily be rebuilt in a matter of weeks with a sound training regime and dedication.

Well put.
Holyfield is a good example of BB and Boxing. I have a hard time serving two masters myself.
My biggest issue with BB workout was that I developed muscular inbalances. My legs for instance grow like weeds in the quad but my hams wouldnt keep up, same with arms and shoulders. Most of the BB workouts I did exagerated these inbalances which must be corrected. I can see how boxing at the same time could remedy this though.

[scurlaruntings]

Well put.
Holyfield is a good example of BB and Boxing. I have a hard time serving two masters myself.
My biggest issue with BB workout was that I developed muscular inbalances. My legs for instance grow like weeds in the quad but my hams wouldnt keep up, same with arms and shoulders. Most of the BB workouts I did exagerated these inbalances which must be corrected. I can see how boxing at the same time could remedy this though.Most naturally favor the easiest body part and favourite workout.Mine tends to be tri`s and back. But its always best to work all muscle groups in equal measure. If you dont you risk injury if you compete in almost any sport because of muscular imbalances. I tend to do more compound excercises rather than focus on particular muscles as the results are far better for overall conditioning and im rarely ever out of shape and thats without even breaking a sweat. If i do need to augment my regime i can still do so with relative ease. A few weeks ago i was benching 300lbs and surprised my own self with how well my muscle memory was as i rarely ever bench that heavy and see no need to do so.

[Rakim]

so Forearm curls Don't build your forearms very well???

deadlifts are better?




I don't know. The point of this thread is that the deadlift will work your forearm, along with the majority of the rest of the muscles in your entire body. Whereas forearm curls will just work your forearms.

Deadlift KO1 forearm curls, is basically what I'm saying.

[LoBlow]

This viru§™ guy don't know what the hell he is typing about, if you are going to spew that tripe at least type a disclaimer or something let the people know that it's just your opinion and might not be factual reasonable or feasible to others.

As to isolation exercises being "pointless" maybe for you it is but then again everyone is different and come from different genetic makes etc.

Isolation exercises are great and important for many reasons, in the case of the forearms.


If you want big, strong forearms do lifts which require a strong grip i.e. deadlift, weighted pull/chinups etc.


The above exercises although they do call upon the forearm muscle groups, they do so in concert with other muscle groups and therefore are assisting. To totally target and hit the forearm muscles a variety of isolation exercises are best.

[MrSmall]

Isolation exercises are good for isolating muscles.
If you want to get STRONGER and bigger, compound is the way to go.

[scurlaruntings]

This viru§™ guy don't know what the hell he is typing about, if you are going to spew that tripe at least type a disclaimer or something let the people know that it's just your opinion and might not be factual reasonable or feasible to others.

As to isolation exercises being "pointless" maybe for you it is but then again everyone is different and come from different genetic makes etc.

Isolation exercises are great and important for many reasons, in the case of the forearms.




The above exercises although they do call upon the forearm muscle groups, they do so in concert with other muscle groups and therefore are assisting. To totally target and hit the forearm muscles a variety of isolation exercises are best.Chill. Its diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. Virus isnt some hack the guy knows a bit what his talking about unlike most here.

[viru§™]

This viru§™ guy don't know what the hell he is typing about, if you are going to spew that tripe at least type a disclaimer or something let the people know that it's just your opinion and might not be factual reasonable or feasible to others.

As to isolation exercises being "pointless" maybe for you it is but then again everyone is different and come from different genetic makes etc.

Isolation exercises are great and important for many reasons, in the case of the forearms.




The above exercises although they do call upon the forearm muscle groups, they do so in concert with other muscle groups and therefore are assisting. To totally target and hit the forearm muscles a variety of isolation exercises are best.
The problem with what you're saying about isolation for the forearms - I've never heard a guy who can deadlift a decent amount of weight asking for help on building his/her forearms. It's ALWAYS the guys who do isolation work that complain. Same with people who do arm curls but refuse to do chinups whining about the size of their biceps.

I don't see how genetics come into it. Compound lifts are superior to isolation evey time. Isolation has it's place, I'm not denying that, but for the average guy or explosive athlete isolation isn't necessary.

[Jazzo]

Rakim, since you asked for my take here it is.

It depends on your goals and what point you are at in training. Every exercise has its place (well, most do) and because you cannot exactly predict how your body will react to something there is more art involved in weight training.

So, they will not do you any harm to try if you want.

I would also advise kettlebells.

[Rakim]

Rakim, since you asked for my take here it is.

It depends on your goals and what point you are at in training. Every exercise has its place (well, most do) and because you cannot exactly predict how your body will react to something there is more art involved in weight training.

So, they will not do you any harm to try if you want.

I would also advise kettlebells.



Cheers bud. I've decided to stick with compound stuff until I actually develop enough muscle somewhere to see that another part of my body is getting left behind. Then I'll use some isolation stuff to get back in proportion. My workout must be pretty balanced at the moment because so far all my muscles are growing at around the same rate, i.e. not much at all.

Cheers for all the help lads.