Marvin Hagler vs Roy Jones Jr.

[jaois138]

I would pick Hagler; but Roy Jones was unbeatable at middleweight. It would be a good fight. :patsch

[Sweet Pea]

I'd take Jones over anyone at 168. At 160, if Hagler implied the right gameplan(would likely be to pressure Jones hard) than he could win. If he tried to box, he'd get beaten. I'd give Monzon just as good or better a chance of beating Jones as Hagler.

[Hatesrats]

Marvin Hagler for me, Jones Jr. would be forced to fight Marvin.
It would be hard to imagine Roy being able to run against a Prime Hagler for 12/15 RDs without getting touched up once. (Like he did Vs. Bernard) Hagler's Southpaw style and powerful jab would be a defo key for Hagler.
Roy's punching power would prob not effect Marvin as much as Marvins would effect his.

Marvin's condition is just as good if not better than Roy's, IMO.
Even tho no one know's for sure, I'd take "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler

[dpw417]

In either an old Playboy or Penthouse magazine interview, Roy noted the fighting chracteristics of Hagler and Robinson...I can't remember the exact quote, but Roy stated if you flurried on Hagler with power...he would cover up. If you flurried on Robinson...he would try to time you with a counter between the punches.

[McGrain]

Roy was a little tight at MW and wasn't the boxing master he was to become. This makes it easier to pick Hagler here.

[TBooze]

I do not see the Petronelli's getting the right plan together for the Marvelous one.

Hagler was too limited tactics wise to be RJJ in a 15 round contest.

RJJ would no doubt run and thus the fight would be closer than it should be.

RJJ WU15 (9-6)

[teeto]

I find it hard going against Jones in many h2h matchups, but i will pick Hagler here

[dukestreet]

rjj by decision for me

[Lobotomy]

I like Hagler in this one. The right jab was one of his power shots, and he would have been impervious to anything RJJ had in his arsenal. This one might look a great deal like Hagler/Hearns would, if Tommy had tried boxing for a decision win. Ultimately, Roy's chin let him down as a light heavyweight, and could well fail again as Hagler took him into the championship rounds.

[Russell]

I do not see the Petronelli's getting the right plan together for the Marvelous one.

Hagler was too limited tactics wise to be RJJ in a 15 round contest.

RJJ would no doubt run and thus the fight would be closer than it should be.

RJJ WU15 (9-6)

Who says Jones could go for 15 rounds?

[Senya13]

Anybody has seen Jones winded after 12 rounds at middleweight? I haven't, but I've seen Hagler winded towards later rounds.

[McGrain]

Jones could do 15 rounds standing on his head if he was allowed to fight his own fight. But Hagler might make it tight for him.

[rekcutnevets]

Hagler was a great fighter. He would find a way to make this fight interesting. Hopkins started catching up to Jones later in their middleweight match. I would expect Hagler to do it a little sooner, and make the fight a little better.

Jones has never had trouble with southpaws in general. Tarver was more than effective, but I believe that was due to timing. I don't believe the side in which he leads from had much to do with it. Hagler would not really receive much advantage in this area. Jones has long had a tendency to rest on the ropes. He even gave Pazienza the 2nd round of their fight because of that flaw. He also had legs to stay away at 160 and 168, as evidenced versus Hopkins and Toney.

I think that Roys speed and power will win him the fight. Roy will not have to put as much leather as Leonard did on Hagler to win rounds, because he hit much harder than Leonard. Marvin's chin is such that I wouldn't dare of hinting at a stoppage, but he would get his head turned from time to time I suspect.

Jones UD

[Ezzard]

Jones was not the finished article at this weight. With all Hagler's experience at this weight I just can't see Jones winning. By the time you get to the Jones at 168 you have a formidable fighter. At 160 I just don't see the evidence.

I wouldn't pick anyone against Jones at 168 but at 160 i think people get carried away with the fighter he became.

[ChrisPontius]

I like Hagler in this one. The right jab was one of his power shots, and he would have been impervious to anything RJJ had in his arsenal. This one might look a great deal like Hagler/Hearns would, if Tommy had tried boxing for a decision win. Ultimately, Roy's chin let him down as a light heavyweight, and could well fail again as Hagler took him into the championship rounds.

As much respect as i have for Hearns, he was frail compared to Jones. Not in a pound for pound sense, but certainly as a middleweight his chin was shaky.

Jones never showed any durability problem whatsoever at 160 or 168. And remember that this is with day-before weigh in, meaning that he basically fought and took punches from lightheavyweights with no problem. He wasn't bothered by official 175lbs'ers (cruiserweights or heavyweights from older eras) until he lost 20lbs of muscle, either.

Add to that the fact that Hagler is not that much of a big one-punch guy , take off the rose colored glasses and you can safely conclude that the chance of Jones getting KO'd by Hagler is very, very small.

Roy is the one proven against lightheavies here, not Hagler. Marvin also fought stupid gameplans in his career biggest fights (Duran and Leonard). How is he going to deal with RJJ, who is faster than the Leonard he faced, much, much more powerful and dare i say, more durable.


I see Jones potshotting and playing with Hagler early and winning the vast majority of the first 10 rounds. Hagler will come on a bit in the later rounds, but far from enough. Jones UD.

[Russell]

People underestimate how extreme weight loss can damned near ruin a fighter, especially when their bodies are such high performance machines. Usually the loss of a few pounds is drastic.

Look at what it did to Byrd.

[fists of fury]

In either an old Playboy or Penthouse magazine interview, Roy noted the fighting chracteristics of Hagler and Robinson...I can't remember the exact quote, but Roy stated if you flurried on Hagler with power...he would cover up. If you flurried on Robinson...he would try to time you with a counter between the punches.

This is a very interesting point, and one I would tend to agree with, thinking about it. Jones may not be a KO threat to Marvin but the man was a puncher at 160 for sure. Add that to blinding speed and you have a fighter that gets away with a lot of things he would not otherwise get away with. Marv sure as heck would not like to get caught flush by Jones too often.

To be quite honest, I think Hagler would have his hands full here. Jones may not be a popular pick, but I would be very nervous if I was a big Hagler fan and this fight was made.

[Hatesrats]

I have a feeling when most peep's use Hagler in H2H matches Vs. speedster's..
they might tend to lean towards his fight with Leonard for answer's.
(Not everyone, but a few)

Jones Jr. can use his speed no doubt, but over the course of 15 RD.s at some point he will have to stand and fight in order to attain his victory.
Do I belive Roy has a Duran type of chin to pull this off? Maybe?
(But not overall, a lightweight taking At the time Middleweight Shots)
Do I think Roy has more pop that Roldan? Yes, I'd defo give him that.
Do I think Roy is a better boxer puncher than is Tommy Hearns? IMO No.
(Plus pound for pound I'd say Tommy was the better power puncher)

Just hard to imagine Roy lasting 15 RD.s (not cause of condition, but accumulation)

[JohnThomas1]

As much respect as i have for Hearns, he was frail compared to Jones. Not in a pound for pound sense, but certainly as a middleweight his chin was shaky.

Jones never showed any durability problem whatsoever at 160 or 168. And remember that this is with day-before weigh in, meaning that he basically fought and took punches from lightheavyweights with no problem. He wasn't bothered by official 175lbs'ers (cruiserweights or heavyweights from older eras) until he lost 20lbs of muscle, either.

Add to that the fact that Hagler is not that much of a big one-punch guy , take off the rose colored glasses and you can safely conclude that the chance of Jones getting KO'd by Hagler is very, very small.

Roy is the one proven against lightheavies here, not Hagler. Marvin also fought stupid gameplans in his career biggest fights (Duran and Leonard). How is he going to deal with RJJ, who is faster than the Leonard he faced, much, much more powerful and dare i say, more durable.


I see Jones potshotting and playing with Hagler early and winning the vast majority of the first 10 rounds. Hagler will come on a bit in the later rounds, but far from enough. Jones UD.

I really can't add to that.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Needs a 3 fight series for sure.

[Dave's Top Ten]

"Roy is the one proven against lightheavies here, not Hagler. Marvin also fought stupid gameplans in his career biggest fights (Duran and Leonard). How is he going to deal with RJJ, who is faster than the Leonard he faced, much, much more powerful and dare i say, more durable. "


Well actually Hagler had a number of big fights during his career in which his game plans were spot on. His three biggest money fights were Duran, Leonard, SRL. Let's look at those ones then. His tactics against Hearns were absolutely perfect and worked like a dream, so let's give credit where credit's due. Has to be one of the most perfectly executed fight plans in history, no?

As for the Duran fight, Hagler could have been more aggressive, true, but in most peoples real world, Hagler won the fight by 5 - 6 points...so the tactics were pretty fine...right? Also we have to take into account the damage done to numerous middleweights in subsequent years who thought Hagler should have been more aggressive, who got pummeled for their ambition.

Another great fighter, Leonard made a much bigger tactical mistake against Duran, but that is forgotten as he had the luxury of a rematch to put things right after such a horrible mistake the first time. I would bet in a rematch Hagler would have embarassed Roberto too.

For the fight with Leonard Hagler's tactics were wrong - the orthodox stance, the passive beginning. But we have to take into account that Leonard was a surprise package that night. Hagler must have been expecting an easier fight and was overconfident and over the hill, quite frankly.

The mistakes made for the Sugar Ray fight wouldn't surface in a fight with Jones. We are assuming a peak Hagler with peak motivation (Hagler had to be coerced into the fight with Leonard by his managers/trainers at a time he was desperate to retire- read Sorcery at Caesers for fascinating insights). Even the Petronellis would be able to see that skillful aggression would be the key against Jones, not laying back and looking for counters.

Having said all that it's tough to pick a winner.

[ChrisPontius]

Well actually Hagler had a number of big fights during his career in which his game plans were spot on. His three biggest money fights were Duran, Leonard, SRL. Let's look at those ones then. His tactics against Hearns were absolutely perfect and worked like a dream, so let's give credit where credit's due. Has to be one of the most perfectly executed fight plans in history, no?


Yes, the Hearns fight turned out well. But that's because Hearns had balls the size of bowling balls. You can be certain that Roy isn't going to brawl with Hagler - then what happens?

The thing here is that Hagler did fine against someone in a brawl whom he had physical advantages over. Jones is the harder hitter, faster in the foot and hand department, the bigger man and if he never fought above middleweight or retired at 33 like Hagler, we might have thought he had a rock solid chin as well, which i still think he has at 160/168.


My point is that, without a doubt the Hearns fight was a great performance by Hagler, but not all that relevant for this particular matchup. Jones wouldn't accept a ******* and wouldn't fold, with all due respect to Hearns, as easy either.




As for the Duran fight, Hagler could have been more aggressive, true, but in most peoples real world, Hagler won the fight by 5 - 6 points...so the tactics were pretty fine...right? Also we have to take into account the damage done to numerous middleweights in subsequent years who thought Hagler should have been more aggressive, who got pummeled for their ambition.


The tactics were fine because he was facing a natural lightweight, an aggressive one to boot. He can't afford to make mistakes against Jones.



For the fight with Leonard Hagler's tactics were wrong - the orthodox stance, the passive beginning. But we have to take into account that Leonard was a surprise package that night. Hagler must have been expecting an easier fight and was overconfident and over the hill, quite frankly.

The mistakes made for the Sugar Ray fight wouldn't surface in a fight with Jones. We are assuming a peak Hagler with peak motivation (Hagler had to be coerced into the fight with Leonard by his managers/trainers at a time he was desperate to retire- read Sorcery at Caesers for fascinating insights). Even the Petronellis would be able to see that skillful aggression would be the key against Jones, not laying back and looking for counters.

Having said all that it's tough to pick a winner.

The start of the Leonard fight was wrong, but even after that, he never really solved Leonard. I realise that Hagler had lost a few steps at this point, but let's not forget that Leonard was as good as inactive for 3 years and looked horrible against a journeyman during his last fight... not to mention the fact that he was a welterweight.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Yes, the Hearns fight turned out well. But that's because Hearns had balls the size of bowling balls. You can be certain that Roy isn't going to brawl with Hagler - then what happens?

The thing here is that Hagler did fine against someone in a brawl whom he had physical advantages over. Jones is the harder hitter, faster in the foot and hand department, the bigger man and if he never fought above middleweight or retired at 33 like Hagler, we might have thought he had a rock solid chin as well, which i still think he has at 160/168.


My point is that, without a doubt the Hearns fight was a great performance by Hagler, but not all that relevant for this particular matchup. Jones wouldn't accept a ******* and wouldn't fold, with all due respect to Hearns, as easy either.



[/color]

The tactics were fine because he was facing a natural lightweight, an aggressive one to boot. He can't afford to make mistakes against Jones.




The start of the Leonard fight was wrong, but even after that, he never really solved Leonard. I realise that Hagler had lost a few steps at this point, but let's not forget that Leonard was as good as inactive for 3 years and looked horrible against a journeyman during his last fight... not to mention the fact that he was a welterweight.


I never said Hagler should brawl with Jones, like he did against Hearns. I agree, it wouldn't work. I was just pointing out the smartness of Hagler's tactics on that occasion.

I'm not so sure that Jones was the harder hitter at Middleweight, not so sure how you conclude that, and we really don't know how his chin would have held up against a stiff combination puncher like Hagler. That one's a bit of an intangible. At Middleweight there are lot of things we never found out about him.

As far as the Leonard fight goes, its irrelevant. The peak Hagler of a fantasy matchup against Jones is a different animal.

I think if Hagler did win, it's most likely a late stoppage in a close fight. A points win for RJJ is a possibility.

[Holmes' Jab]

Jones UD all the way. Unlike Hopkins, Hagler would make this one reasonably competitive, though.