Pea-Oscar

[teeto]

This is just a quick thread guys.

I finally watched, and judged Whitaker-DeLahoya the other day, i had the fight a draw. Does any1 here remember who they had, im just curious, was a hard one.

I would like to add though, and im not just trying to get at Oscar, but i thought Pea looked great in this bout, the only credit i could see fitting for Oscar was that his punches were harder throughout, that was it. Even though i never had him winning, when Sweet Pea was boxing well, it was special imo. Crazy how he can stand off the taller, more rangier guys and reach them with his jab, and not be touched back, usage of angles at its very best

[Hatesrats]

I'm defo an Oscar De La Hoya supporter no doubt...
And I will admit, Pea looked really Phys strong in this fight.
(I actually feared his power for Oscar watching this as a fan)

That said, I really don't think anyone fighter really stuck out more so than the other.
Obviously Pea's face showed more damage, but we all know that means about a crock.
Did Pea do enough to take De La Hoya's title? Maybe?

Did Oscar De La Hoya feel something in there to make him respect Pea (Power)
I have no doubt in my mind that's what happened, IMO Oscar underestimated Pea's "Pop"
and it forced Oscar to fight a more cautious style than we were used to at the time.
(Which made the fight seem closer...)

Not rematching Pea will always be sore spot with me when it comes to Oscar.

[SuzieQ49]

too bad when whitaker made him miss silly, he didnt land anything in return he just stuck out his tongue. He could have won the fight. Ill post my scorecard later.

[Sweet Pea]

I had Whitaker by two points. I'd post the stats but I myself generally think punchstats are worthless. But this is common knowledge.

[teeto]

Thanks for letting me know guys, was just curious how others had it. I sort of guessed Sweet Pea's and Suzie's answers though!

I just felt that i was watching an elite fighter though, against something ever so slightly less than that. Maybe that's a bit harsh on Oscar, he has been a great fighter, maybe it was just a stylistic nightmare for him?

Ive already stated how great i think Whitaker looked in this one havent I??! (kidding)

[SuzieQ49]

whitaker outlanded oscar by a few punches sure, but oscar outlanded him in powerpunches 2 to 1.

[Sweet Pea]

whitaker outlanded oscar by a few punches sure, but oscar outlanded him in powerpunches 2 to 1.Anything that isn't a jab is a power punch, and considering Oscar didn't land shit in jabs against the much better jabber and defender Whitaker, everything he landed was basically considered a power shot. And I think anyone with eyes will laugh at anyone saying Oscar was landing many power shot combos. We've all seen the fight.

Whitaker also threw more and landed at a higher percentage, and KD'd Oscar if you want to get into that.

[teeto]

BTW, what happened with the point deduction? If it wasnt for that, i'd have Whitaker by 1 point

[SuzieQ49]

Whitaker also threw more and landed at a higher percentage, and KD'd Oscar if you want to get into that.

the 10-8 9th round for whitaker was negated by oscars 10-8 3rd round courtesy of a whitaker headbutt. the kd was a joke anyway, oscar was way off balance already going down, it didnt even look like a punch landed.

[teeto]

Im sorry, i know it looks like im a Whitaker fan here, im not in a big way, but-
the KD imo was class, a guy without much power, fighting a top WW with a very very good chin, and hit him with a clever counter hook which wasnt concussive but caught his man off guard and buckled him slightly to cause a KD. I thought it was class!

[SuzieQ49]

Im rescoring the fight right now


right now i have oscar up 3 rounds to 1 plus the point deduction after 1/4 quarter.


round 1: Oscar 10-9

Round 2: Whitaker 10-9

Round 3: Oscar 10-8

Round 4: Oscar 10-9


Thats 39-36 oscar after 4 rounds

[teeto]

Sorry to be a stirrer of trouble here, but it would be fun for Sweet Pea (if you are still there), to judge it now aswell and see how your cards differ?

Anyway, im up early tommorrow, and its very late over here! I'll check this thread in the morning.

Thanks for the opinions you 2!

[SuzieQ49]

Im sorry, i know it looks like im a Whitaker fan here, im not in a big way, but-
the KD imo was class, a guy without much power, fighting a top WW with a very very good chin, and hit him with a clever counter hook which wasnt concussive but caught his man off guard and buckled him slightly to cause a KD. I thought it was class!

Teeto, ur falling in love with the willie pep make u miss badly clown style, thats great. You would love willie pep more than whitaker. but watch the fight, not the fighter. oscar was the only one doing anything contstructive. whitakers jab was his best weapon all night.


oscars technique is something every amatuer orthodox fighter should study

[Sweet Pea]

I'm going to re-score it as well.

Whitaker up 2 rounds to 1 after 3. He won the first and third, Oscar narrowly won the second.

Whitaker worked him in the fourth. 5th was even, 6th went to Whitaker.

7th was even. Oscar won the 8th. Whitaker won the 9th 10-8.

The 10th was even. Whitaker easily won the 11th. Oscar won the 12th.

That comes out to 117-113 for Whitaker. I will give you Oscar the 5th and 10th even rounds then. Even then it comes out to 115 to 113 for Whitaker.

edit: Why are you saying the 3rd round is Oscar's by a 10-8 margin Suzie? I am watching with the sound off.

[Betty Swollocks]

Whitaker by 2 points.
lets face it, it was no surprise when they went out of their way to hand it to DLH.

[SuzieQ49]

btw whitaker is a classless arrogant asshole. Bills story of him at the hall of fame, whitaker actions were disgusting and inhumane.

[teeto]

Teeto, ur falling in love with the willie pep make u miss badly clown style, thats great. You would love willie pep more than whitaker. but watch the fight, not the fighter. oscar was the only one doing anything contstructive. whitakers jab was his best weapon all night.


oscars technique is something every amatuer orthodox fighter should study
Thats very interesting actually 'watch the fight, not the fighter', ive seen a lot of both Pep and Whitaker, but i just wanted to see this one because i hadnt.

As i said though, that is interesting, i was sort of in awe of Whitaker, watching it, and i would say it may have clouded my judgement, however, i had the fight a draw, so i cant have been that delusional, otherwise i would have given it to the guy i liked, which in this case was Pea.

I did think at times he schooled Oscar though sorry, just how i saw it, and like i say, if not for the headbutt thing, i'd have Pae by 1 point.

[teeto]

btw whitaker is a classless arrogant asshole. Bills story of him at the hall of fame, whitaker actions were disgusting and inhumane.
I know, but he had 2 massive wins taken from him, if you think he beat Oscar that is. Im not making excuses for the guy, but it is understandable WHY he felt how he did about his career

[jaois138]

I'm defo an Oscar De La Hoya supporter no doubt...
And I will admit, Pea looked really Phys strong in this fight.
(I actually feared his power for Oscar watching this as a fan)

That said, I really don't think anyone fighter really stuck out more so than the other.
Obviously Pea's face showed more damage, but we all know that means about a crock.
Did Pea do enough to take De La Hoya's title? Maybe?

Did Oscar De La Hoya feel something in there to make him respect Pea (Power)
I have no doubt in my mind that's what happened, IMO Oscar underestimated Pea's "Pop"
and it forced Oscar to fight a more cautious style than we were used to at the time.
(Which made the fight seem closer...)

Not rematching Pea will always be sore spot with me when it comes to Oscar.

I agree.

[SuzieQ49]

Im rescoring the fight right now


right now i have the fight 3 rounds to 3 with the point deduction favoring oscar by a point


round 1: Oscar 10-9

Round 2: Whitaker 10-9

Round 3: Oscar 10-8

Round 4: Oscar 10-9

Round 5: Whitaker 10-9

Round 6: Whitaker 10-9


Thats Oscar 57-56 halfway through the fight

[SuzieQ49]

Im rescoring the fight right now





Thats 5 rounds to 4 oscar after 9





round 1: Oscar 10-9



Round 2: Whitaker 10-9



Round 3: Oscar 10-8



Round 4: Oscar 10-9



Round 5: Whitaker 10-9



Round 6: Whitaker 10-9



Round 7: Oscar 10-9

Round 8: Oscar 10-9

Round 9: Whitaker 10-8



Thats Oscar 85-84 after 3/4 of the fight

[SuzieQ49]

Im rescoring the fight right now





round 1: Oscar 10-9


Round 2: Whitaker 10-9


Round 3: Oscar 10-8


Round 4: Oscar 10-9


Round 5: Whitaker 10-9


Round 6: Whitaker 10-9


Round 7: Oscar 10-9


Round 8: Oscar 10-9


Round 9: Whitaker 10-8


Round 10: Even 10-10


Round 11: Whitaker 10-9


Round 12: Oscar De La Hoya 10-9







Thats Oscar De La Hoya 114-113

[SuzieQ49]

harold leterman had it 114-112 oscar. he had the exact same scorecard as mine except he scored the 10th for oscar while I had it even

[sweet_scientist]

Rounds 1,5,6,9,10 and 11 to Whitaker.
Rounds 2,3,4,8 and 12 to DLH.
Round 7 even.

Whitaker by a point: 114-113

Fight could have gone either way and is littered with close rounds.

I agree with Larry Merchant though that Pernell Whitaker made his statement as to who the better fighter between the two was (all time, that is) regardless of the outcome.

[Thread Stealer]

I had it even at 113.

I don't remember the r-b-r.

I had a poll on this in the general forum, I'll find it. The opinions show how close of a fight it was.

[Thread Stealer]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[la-califa]

Anything that isn't a jab is a power punch, and considering Oscar didn't land shit in jabs against the much better jabber and defender Whitaker, everything he landed was basically considered a power shot. And I think anyone with eyes will laugh at anyone saying Oscar was landing many power shot combos. We've all seen the fight.

Whitaker also threw more and landed at a higher percentage, and KD'd Oscar if you want to get into that.Considering the first Ramirez fight, Chavez & De La Hoya fights. Is it fair to say Whitaker's style is not "Judge" friendly. Meaning to say the things he did were so subtle that these moves were lost on the judge's? Because I don't really remember Whitaker ever getting the benefit of the doubt in a fight others might have considered he lost. It was always the other way around.

[Mantequilla]

Maybe that was the case against Oscar, but the ramirez and Chavez fights were fixed.

Pea could have fought like Henry Armstrong and he wouldn't have got the decisions.

[round15]

I had Sweet Pea winning by 2 points bare minimum. It could have been a 3 or maybe a 4 point victory if the knockdown was actually counted for.

This is one of the three famous gift decisions the Golden Boy received, along with the Ike Quartey and Sturm fights. The Sturm decision was one of the worst I've witnessed in the history of the sport. It wasn't even close.

[teeto]

I had Sweet Pea winning by 2 points bare minimum. It could have been a 3 or maybe a 4 point victory if the knockdown was actually counted for.

This is one of the three famous gift decisions the Golden Boy received, along with the Ike Quartey and Sturm fights. The Sturm decision was one of the worst I've witnessed in the history of the sport. It wasn't even close.
Thats right, i have the Whitaker fight a draw (like i said though, if it wasnt for that head-butt Pea won imo), Quartey beating him by 1 point, but that was very close, i understand the arguments for Oscar there. But Sturm clearly beat him imo.

[Russell]

btw whitaker is a classless arrogant asshole. Bills story of him at the hall of fame, whitaker actions were disgusting and inhumane.

Because he wasn't signing autographs? :lol:

Baaaaaw! :|

[SuzieQ49]

I had Sweet Pea winning by 2 points bare minimum. It could have been a 3 or maybe a 4 point victory if the knockdown was actually counted for.



lol what rounds did u give whitaker? dont forget the knockdown is nullified by oscars 10-8 3rd round due to illegal headbutt. i doubt u seen the fight.

[SuzieQ49]

Thats right, i have the Whitaker fight a draw (like i said though, if it wasnt for that head-butt Pea won imo

what rounds did you give sweet pea. also i notice in this thread u keep defending whitaker, yet if u look at ur scorecard u scored it a DRAW. that means u didnt see either fighter winning. so there had to be something whitaker did or did not do that caused ur scorecard to reflect this, yet i hadvnt seen u defend oscar once or play both sides of the fence. You scored it a draw for a reason. u didnt have whitaker winning.

[teeto]

what rounds did you give sweet pea. also i notice in this thread u keep defending whitaker, yet if u look at ur scorecard u scored it a DRAW. that means u didnt see either fighter winning. so there had to be something whitaker did or did not do that caused ur scorecard to reflect this, yet i hadvnt seen u defend oscar once or play both sides of the fence. You scored it a draw for a reason. u didnt have whitaker winning.
I know im coming across that way, but like i said in the original post on this thread, i really do feel that the only thing Oscar did was land some harder shots, whereas in the rounds that Pae won he was schooling Oscar at times. Im not nuthugging here, i was just very impressed.

But shouldnt a guy get a warning first rather than an outright point deduction for a headbutt? If it wasnt for that i would have Pea by 1. No1 seems to wanna comment on this

[SuzieQ49]

I know im coming across that way, but like i said in the original post on this thread, i really do feel that the only thing Oscar did was land some harder shots, whereas in the rounds that Pae won he was schooling Oscar at times. Im not nuthugging here, i was just very impressed.

your very impressed that sweet pea did not win the fight on ur card?



But shouldnt a guy get a warning first rather than an outright point deduction for a headbutt? If it wasnt for that i would have Pea by 1. No1 seems to wanna comment on this

was the de la hoya knockdown even a knockdown? it appeared whitaker missed him with a punch and hit him with a left forearm after the missed punch while oscar was already off balance. We can play these games over and over...That was not the first time whitaker headbutted in the fight.

[teeto]

your very impressed that sweet pea did not win the fight on ur card? .

Haha, you have a way twisting words, but i even laughed at that! I KNOW you KNOW what im saying though.

[ripcity]

I had it close for Whitaker but it could have gone either way.

[teeto]

was the de la hoya knockdown even a knockdown? it appeared whitaker missed him with a punch and hit him with a left forearm after the missed punch while oscar was already off balance. We can play these games over and over...That was not the first time whitaker headbutted in the fight.

And now i believe this is bias. Oscar was off balance and then Sweet Pea i think missed a left-hook , which was actually a part of a double left hook combo, the latter hook landed and buckled Oscar's legs ever so slightly and caused a KD. Ive already stated that i thought it was rather class.

And on the point of the headbutt, i was asking because i was curious, i actually didnt know about any previous 1s, but if he did he did, still though, he should have received warnings before a point deduction.

SUZIE, IM NOT GETTING AT OSCAR, AND DONT HAVE A PERSONAL BEEF WITH HIM, I JIUST WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH HOW PEA LOOKED WHEN HE LOOKED GOOD, THATS IT!

[Sweet Pea]

lol what rounds did u give whitaker? dont forget the knockdown is nullified by oscars 10-8 3rd round due to illegal headbutt. i doubt u seen the fight.I gave Whitaker the 3rd round, so even if a point was taken away, it would've been a 9-9 round.

[SuzieQ49]

I thought the 3rd round was one of oscars better rounds.....dont see how u scored it for sweet pea. ur the first person i have ever heard give the 3rd to sweet pea. even sweet scientist gave the 3rd to oscar. so did lederman/ all the "corrupt" judges and most fans out there.

[Sweet Pea]

I thought the 3rd round was one of oscars better rounds.....dont see how u scored it for sweet pea. ur the first person i have ever heard give the 3rd to sweet pea. even sweet scientist gave the 3rd to oscar. so did lederman/ all the "corrupt" judges and most fans out there.He was doing good throughout the first part of it, Sweet Pea pretty much handled him toward the latter parts of the round, though that was when the deduction came. I could see that being a De La Hoya round. But still, I gave Oscar two of the 3 rounds I scored even just to tighten up the scores, as I had Whitaker winning by a bigger margin when I just watched it than I did the first time.

[SuzieQ49]

My father who usually puts up a good scorecard on many fights and is far more knowledgable and experienced than me when it comes to fighting and studying boxers scored it with me, he had it 116-111 oscar de la hoya. I had it 114-113 oscar. He thought sweet peas clowning making him miss without returning any counterpunches did nothing but piss off the judges and make sweet pea look like a fool for not taking advantage. he saw oscar as doing all the work making the fight landing the harder punches. He thinks of sweet pea as too much a runner. thats what the times viewed him as. I do think my dad didnt give whitakers jab and oscar misses enough credit, but at the same time he brought up good points why oscar deserved to win or should I say not lose.


seems sweet pea is one of those fighters whos legacy apparently is going up by young fans falling in love with make u miss badly style

[Sweet Pea]

My father who usually puts up a good scorecard on many fights and is far more knowledgable and experienced than me when it comes to fighting and studying boxers scored it with me, he had it 116-111 oscar de la hoya. I had it 114-113 oscar. He thought sweet peas clowning making him miss without returning any counterpunches did nothing but piss off the judges and make sweet pea look like a fool for not taking advantage. he saw oscar as doing all the work making the fight landing the harder punches. He thinks of sweet pea as too much a runner. thats what the times viewed him as. I do think my dad didnt give whitakers jab and oscar misses enough credit, but at the same time he brought up good points why oscar deserved to win or should I say not lose.


seems sweet pea is one of those fighters whos legacy apparently is going up by young fans falling in love with make u miss badly style

OK, so when Oscar was missing combinations, what did he do to win the judges over? He wasn't landing solid shots, he wasn't using effective aggression, so what was he doing? Defense is a criteria as well in case you were unaware, therefore Pea did something impressive by the judges criteria, Oscar did nothing. Regardless of whether or not the biased judges liked it, that is the official criteria, Pea's defense should've helped him out in that fight. Oscar's only edge was in power shots.

[teeto]

My father who usually puts up a good scorecard on many fights and is far more knowledgable and experienced than me when it comes to fighting and studying boxers scored it with me, he had it 116-111 oscar de la hoya. I had it 114-113 oscar. He thought sweet peas clowning making him miss without returning any counterpunches did nothing but piss off the judges and make sweet pea look like a fool for not taking advantage. he saw oscar as doing all the work making the fight landing the harder punches. He thinks of sweet pea as too much a runner. thats what the times viewed him as. I do think my dad didnt give whitakers jab and oscar misses enough credit, but at the same time he brought up good points why oscar deserved to win or should I say not lose.


seems sweet pea is one of those fighters whos legacy apparently is going up by young fans falling in love with make u miss badly style
Suzie, you made that 'falling in luv' comment about me earlier in this thread, and now are making that comment again. Im not a 'young fan' in terms of boxing knowledge, and thats not good if you think that. Im your age and have always (meaning for a very long time) studied boxing history religiously, i know you always talk about you box, ive boxed amateur myself, nothing of note, but im just saying that im boxing mad, i always jump on any threads regarding any fighters of the past, obscure, great , whatever, and no1 tells me im embarrassing myself.

Im not sure if that 'young fans falling in luv with the hit and miss style' is aimed at me, but it really looks that way, just letting you know that if thats the case, you have me badly wrong.

All i did was comment on a fight i havent judged before, missed it, and never got round to it, and was very impressed with some of the things Pea did, thats it, no nuthugging.

[teeto]

OK, so when Oscar was missing combinations, what did he do to win the judges over? He wasn't landing solid shots, he wasn't using effective aggression, so what was he doing? Defense is a criteria as well in case you were unaware, therefore Pea did something impressive by the judges criteria, Oscar did nothing. Regardless of whether or not the biased judges liked it, that is the official criteria, Pea's defense should've helped him out in that fight. Oscar's only edge was in power shots.

This whole post is my case exactly:good :good

[SuzieQ49]

When whitaker did make oscar miss badly instead of countering he smiled and laughed. how does that score u points? if oscar throws 7 punch combo misses badly in 6 of them but sneaks in 1 of those shots, so 1 out of 7 lands, yet when whitaker makes him miss those 6 he doesnt counter any punches he just smiles who got the better out of that exchange? oscar.


Also, i dont think oscar gets enough credit defensivley he also made whitaker miss quite a few times.

[SuzieQ49]

Suzie, you made that 'falling in luv' comment about me earlier in this thread, and now are making that comment again. Im not a 'young fan' in terms of boxing knowledge, and thats not good if you think that. Im your age and have always (meaning for a very long time) studied boxing history religiously


I wasnt really directing that toward you, but to many of the fans in the general forum. I respect ur knowledge and opinion very much.

[Sweet Pea]

When whitaker did make oscar miss badly instead of countering he smiled and laughed. how does that score u points? if oscar throws 7 punch combo misses badly in 6 of them but sneaks in 1 of those shots, so 1 out of 7 lands, yet when whitaker makes him miss those 6 he doesnt counter any punches he just smiles who got the better out of that exchange? oscar.


Also, i dont think oscar gets enough credit defensivley he also made whitaker miss quite a few times.The thing is, in quite a few of those combinations(especially that 10 punch or so combo in the 2nd round I believe it was) Oscar landed precisely 0 punches. Therefore, based on official criteria, Whitaker should've won those exchanges. Sure Oscar won a good few of the exchanges, as he didn't always come up with air, but the fight wasn't decided on exchanges, it was mostly fought at Whitaker's pace, with ring generalship being another criteria he took.

I agree though that Oscar's defense and countering ability was on that night, only problem was the opponent in front of him. He didn't come up with air all the time, but on his combos he usually did. His single shots were more on point. Problem was, he was playing Whitaker's game when he did that, and was getting tagged with jabs himself.

[teeto]

I wasnt really directing that toward you, but to many of the fans in the general forum. I respect ur knowledge and opinion very much.
Thanks, its mutual!

[SuzieQ49]

Defense is a criteria as well in case you were unaware, therefore Pea did something impressive by the judges criteria,

defense is a criteria, but the criteria is counterpunching. whitaker when he made oscar miss badly did not do any counterpunching or land any return shots......he just stood there and smiled shoboating his greatness at the fact he made a pinpoint fighter like oscar miss a bunch of punches. but he fails to realize he did not get the better of that exchange.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

its like this..... if oscar throws 7 punch combo misses badly in 6 of them but sneaks in 1 of those shots, so 1 out of 7 lands, yet when whitaker makes him miss those 6 he doesnt counter any punches he just smiles who got the better out of that exchange? oscar.

[SuzieQ49]

btw i thought whitaker really turn the clocks back a bit on that night. He looked far better than against hurtdado and rivera, it was like his last hurrah like charles vs marciano I.

[McGrain]

I had it to Whitaker by two points.

[Sweet Pea]

defense is a criteria, but the criteria is counterpunching. whitaker when he made oscar miss badly did not do any counterpunching or land any return shots......he just stood there and smiled shoboating his greatness at the fact he made a pinpoint fighter like oscar miss a bunch of punches. but he fails to realize he did not get the better of that exchange.Can you prove that is the exact criteria? Defense is what it is usually interpreted as, though you obviously have to have offense mixed in to win the fight overall, which Whitaker did.


its like this..... if oscar throws 7 punch combo misses badly in 6 of them but sneaks in 1 of those shots, so 1 out of 7 lands, yet when whitaker makes him miss those 6 he doesnt counter any punches he just smiles who got the better out of that exchange? oscar.
It could honestly be interpreted in another way, but that makes sense. I don't disagree with it, in fact I said it in my above post that Oscar won a few exchanges like this, but I didn't have him winning the fight because the fight was not dictated at this pace.

[Sweet Pea]

btw i thought whitaker really turn the clocks back a bit on that night. He looked far better than against hurtdado and rivera, it was like his last hurrah like charles vs marciano I.Very true.

[la-califa]

btw i thought whitaker really turn the clocks back a bit on that night. He looked far better than against hurtdado and rivera, it was like his last hurrah like charles vs marciano I. True, & that just goes to prove a prime Whitaker would have pretty much easily handled De La Hoya.

[sweet_scientist]

Whitaker missing and not making DLH pay is a bit of a generalisation really, because after many of the key combinations Whitaker dodged he DID make DLH pay.

Just to review some cases in point.

Round 2, Whitaker lightly lands a jab, then DLH counters him, and then proceeds to throw a or 9 punch combo, and they all miss. DLH STARTS SMILING, Whitaker follows in with a jab and uppercut that wipes the smile off DLH's face.

Round 5, start of the round, DLH chases Whitaker with shots in combination, Whitaker is on the retreat, Whitaker then comes in after the DLH combo and lands a flush 1-2.

Later in round 5 DLH misses a couple of punches wildly and Whitaker mocks him with his body language for being sloppy with his punches. DLH moves in and gets a Whitaker jab.

Round 9, towards the end of the round Whitaker taunts DLH and DLH unleashes a combo with a couple of partial connects. Whitaker retaliates by spinning DLH around on the ropes and gets off a couple of hooks and an uppercut which appear to partially connect.

Round 10, it's the end of the round and DLH unleashes another combo to try and steal the round. Whitaker dodges the combo with the exception of a body punch and comes back with two body shots of his own.


Now, I'm not saying didn't do his share of clowning and not fighting back, he did, e.g. closing stages of the fight, and he simply made DLH miss at the end of round 4 without coming back with anything, but I think people take this 'all Whitaker did was clown and didn't make Oscar pay' thing too far. Whitaker, for the majority did make Oscar miss and did make him pay, though with no real earth shattering punches.

[ChrisPontius]

SuzieQ, how do you see DLH vs Whitaker go prime for prime?

[round15]

Suzie Q49

Respect to you for your opinion. I HAVE actually seen the fight a couple of times and if you look at the entire fight, Pea was making Delahoya miss big time, catching his shots on the forearms and elbows just like Mayweather did.
I believe Whitaker beat Oscar worse than Mayweather did. He outlanded him, out percentaged him and caught him off guard and Oscar's glove did touch the canvas from a punch, which is a knockdown. The difference between Mayweather/Delahoya and Whitaker/Deahoya is the fact that the judges actually paid attention to the fight inside the ring as opposed to the crowd noise for every Delahoya action.

[rekcutnevets]

I had Whitaker winning by a couple points, 114-112; or 7-5 in terms of rounds.

I believe I saw mention of Whitaker's showing facial damage, but I believe that may have been due in part to the same butt that caused Oscar's cut.

This fight was one of several occasions that De la Hoya's opponent deserved a rematch, but never received another chance. Instead of granting Whitaker a rematch Oscar decided to face David Kamau( whose only feat was losing a close fight to Chavez at 140), Hector Camacho( I guess his win over Leonard at a higher weight was real impressive), Wilfredo Rivera(who had already lost to Whitaker), Patrick Charpentier( I won't give any flack here, I think he was a mandatory), and Julio Cesar Chavez(a couple years too late, and a couple pounds to heavy).

Quartey and Sturm were also deserving of other chances.

Oscar's all time standings will forever be affected by neglecting to give these fighters another chance. I almost hope Mayweather does stay retired so De la Hoya can see how some of these fighters feel.

[Robbi]

A couple of points either way. During the close rounds I gave them to De La Hoya based on him willing to put shots together. Forget all the nonsense about only Whitaker having the excellent defense. Yes, he did have a brilliant defense and made De La Hoya miss, but he was also made to miss himself often. De La Hoya was actually cautious and measured himself throughout the fight. So it wasn't quite the matador v the bull. It was matador v matador throughout the entire fight more or less.


And Pea. Never score a fight with the sound off. It's unatural and simply not as close to the real deal as you'll get. Judges do not sit at ringside with earplugs in so they cannot hear the crowd or the sound of the punches. I've never bought into this theory about scoring fights with no sound.

[TommyV]

Sweet Pea by 2 like a few other people. I am a bit biased though.

[Sweet Pea]

And Pea. Never score a fight with the sound off. It's unatural and simply not as close to the real deal as you'll get. Judges do not sit at ringside with earplugs in so they cannot hear the crowd or the sound of the punches. I've never bought into this theory about scoring fights with no sound.Sound on my computer is down right now after it crashed. Will be back up soon. Honestly, it can help out, as you don't get drawn in to what others(commentators) are constantly repeating.

[TommyV]

I tend to score fights twice, once with the sound on and once off, because I sometimes buy into what the commentators say and give rounds away to the other fighter when I've scored it to the other guy.

[sweet_scientist]

I'm defo an Oscar De La Hoya supporter no doubt...
And I will admit, Pea looked really Phys strong in this fight.
(I actually feared his power for Oscar watching this as a fan)

That said, I really don't think anyone fighter really stuck out more so than the other.
Obviously Pea's face showed more damage, but we all know that means about a crock.
Did Pea do enough to take De La Hoya's title? Maybe?

Did Oscar De La Hoya feel something in there to make him respect Pea (Power)
I have no doubt in my mind that's what happened, IMO Oscar underestimated Pea's "Pop"
and it forced Oscar to fight a more cautious style than we were used to at the time.
(Which made the fight seem closer...)

Not rematching Pea will always be sore spot with me when it comes to Oscar.
Pea was actually the champ at the time - on paper at least, because DLH was coronated before the fight had even taken place. :D

Agree with your points though, and DLH dodging a rematch irked me no end.

I felt shattered for Whitaker that he was able to put in such a good performance and the boxing world just washed over the event and moved on to champion DLH for fighting second rate hacks and shot fighters and getting awards like the KO Magazine fighter of the year.

He dodged a rematch with Quartey too, but that wasn't near as bad given that he went on to fight other quality fighters pretty much right after that fight. With Whitaker, DLH went on to fight guys not half his calibre. Terrible dodge imo, and rightfully earnt him the nickname 'Chicken DLH'.

[teeto]

Just recently i have been judging fights without sound, i never really paid attention to the theory before, because i thought that i wouldnt make much of a judge if i cant think by myself regardless of crowd noise (and commentators), but anyway, i did B-Hop-Calzage both ways and had the same both times. And i did soem Holmes bouts without sound recently also

[ChrisPontius]

SuzieQ, how do you see DLH vs Whitaker go prime for prime?


:bump

[SuzieQ49]

SuzieQ, how do you see DLH vs Whitaker go prime for prime?

Whitaker taking a clean 7 rounds to 5 decision, but a close fight. This is at 140lb im talking about. Because I feel oscar was at his very best 135-140lb where his power was like dynamite, and whitakers best was 135-140lb.

[SuzieQ49]

Pea was actually the champ at the time - on paper at least, because DLH was coronated before the fight had even taken place. :D

Agree with your points though, and DLH dodging a rematch irked me no end.

I felt shattered for Whitaker that he was able to put in such a good performance and the boxing world just washed over the event and moved on to champion DLH for fighting second rate hacks and shot fighters and getting awards like the KO Magazine fighter of the year.

He dodged a rematch with Quartey too, but that wasn't near as bad given that he went on to fight other quality fighters pretty much right after that fight. With Whitaker, DLH went on to fight guys not half his calibre. Terrible dodge imo, and rightfully earnt him the nickname 'Chicken DLH'.



Now I have to step in. Oscar de La Hoya is one of the few fighters from the last 25 years in the 40 fight era, who fought EVERYONE. I mean literally he fought all the dangerous fighters of his era around his weight class, no one can take that away from him. oscar was fearless, to ever imply oscar ducked somebody with the competition he fought is absurd. The way your nitpicking I could nitpick too and say why didnt whitaker take on rosario and camacho.

[sweet_scientist]

Now I have to step in. Oscar de La Hoya is one of the few fighters from the last 25 years in the 40 fight era, who fought EVERYONE. I mean literally he fought all the dangerous fighters of his era around his weight class, no one can take that away from him. oscar was fearless, to ever imply oscar ducked somebody with the competition he fought is absurd. The way your nitpicking I could nitpick too and say why didnt whitaker take on rosario and camacho.
That would be like me nitpicking and saying DLH didn't fight Kostya Tszyu or Winky Wright. I'm not making that point.

I'm making the point that DLH clearly ducked a rematch with Whitaker and fought 5 low-level opponents in a row instead of taking a fight plenty of people felt he lost. I don't even see how that is contentious.

And it's not as if I'm the only one with these sentiments:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Now I'm not denying that DLH fought great competition, because he did, and probably the best in the last 20 or so years in fact, but a duck is a duck, and this was a duck.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Thread Stealer]

Quartey deserved a rematch. That was a worse decision than most of DLH's other controversial decisions (other than the Sturm fight). One great round doesn't make up for all the time DLH stood there and looked at Quartey, eating the jab and occassional right hand, and doing nothing.

[Swedish81]

btw whitaker is a classless arrogant asshole. Bills story of him at the hall of fame, whitaker actions were disgusting and inhumane.

Ok, that´s the reason you score the fight against him, or is it just your unknowledge. Or is it Jim Lampleys biased commentary.

[Swedish81]

Whitaker missing and not making DLH pay is a bit of a generalisation really, because after many of the key combinations Whitaker dodged he DID make DLH pay.

Just to review some cases in point.

Round 2, Whitaker lightly lands a jab, then DLH counters him, and then proceeds to throw a or 9 punch combo, and they all miss. DLH STARTS SMILING, Whitaker follows in with a jab and uppercut that wipes the smile off DLH's face.

Round 5, start of the round, DLH chases Whitaker with shots in combination, Whitaker is on the retreat, Whitaker then comes in after the DLH combo and lands a flush 1-2.

Later in round 5 DLH misses a couple of punches wildly and Whitaker mocks him with his body language for being sloppy with his punches. DLH moves in and gets a Whitaker jab.

Round 9, towards the end of the round Whitaker taunts DLH and DLH unleashes a combo with a couple of partial connects. Whitaker retaliates by spinning DLH around on the ropes and gets off a couple of hooks and an uppercut which appear to partially connect.

Round 10, it's the end of the round and DLH unleashes another combo to try and steal the round. Whitaker dodges the combo with the exception of a body punch and comes back with two body shots of his own.


Now, I'm not saying didn't do his share of clowning and not fighting back, he did, e.g. closing stages of the fight, and he simply made DLH miss at the end of round 4 without coming back with anything, but I think people take this 'all Whitaker did was clown and didn't make Oscar pay' thing too far. Whitaker, for the majority did make Oscar miss and did make him pay, though with no real earth shattering punches.

It´s a late answer but you´re the man Danny!

[sweet_scientist]

It´s a late answer but you´re the man Danny!

Why thank you my friend:good

How've you been by the way? Haven't seen you around the traps much lately.

[Swedish81]

Why thank you my friend:good

How've you been by the way? Haven't seen you around the traps much lately.

I´ve been moving and having some trouble with the Internet connection, but now i´m back. thanks again for the Pea-fights.

[round15]

Quartey deserved a rematch. That was a worse decision than most of DLH's other controversial decisions (other than the Sturm fight). One great round doesn't make up for all the time DLH stood there and looked at Quartey, eating the jab and occassional right hand, and doing nothing.

Thank you Thread Stealer. Finally someone that agrees with me on this topic. I believe Quartey beat DelaHoya clearly by 115-113, regardless of what happened in the 12th round. One round does not and should not dictate the final scoring of a fight. After both knockdowns in the 6th round, I had Quartey pretty much dominating the fight with his jab and right hand while DelaHoya barely answered back. People also forget the right hand shot Quartey threw in the ninth round, which is one of the best right hand shots anyone has landed on DelaHoya.

Like I've said before regarding this topic, I'll agree with the majority that a challenger, Quartey, almost always never defeats a champion, DelaHoya, by getting knocked down himself in the last round of a fight. I'll never forget Jim Lampley's comentary at the end of round 9, "Going into the last three rounds, Oscar DelaHoya is in trouble." To this day I feel that Oscar didn't do near enough to win the fight, especially in the last three rounds. Much worse is the cowardly act of avoiding an immediate rematch with Quartey, which boxing needed at that time.

[eliqueiros]

Im sorry, i know it looks like im a Whitaker fan here, im not in a big way, but-
the KD imo was class, a guy without much power, fighting a top WW with a very very good chin, and hit him with a clever counter hook which wasnt concussive but caught his man off guard and buckled him slightly to cause a KD. I thought it was class!

It wasn't that impressive a kd. Oscar was off balance from switching stances when he got popped but he was clearly not hurt. The kd that Quartey gave him just after receiving his own, a kd that actually hurt Hoya, that was world class. :good

[teeto]

It wasn't that impressive a kd. Oscar was off balance from switching stances when he got popped but he was clearly not hurt. The kd that Quartey gave him just after receiving his own, a kd that actually hurt Hoya, that was world class. :good
I get you, i just thought that Pea's KD was a clever one rather than a hurtful, powerful one, considering Pea aint a puncher and Oscar's very good chin it just impressed me, it was a clever counter.

Ike's was better, his showed warrior spirit!

[TIGEREDGE]

i had oscar by 2
yes whitaker was making oscar miss but he was not landing or trying to land a lot himself. if sweet pea had of been more aggressive and tried to win the fight by boxinng properly, oscar would of landed more is well

the art of boxing is hit and not be hit; its not show boating and clowning around. sweet pea is an arrogant prick but he was robbed against JCC and ramirez.

in those fights sweet pea was boxing great. he was personifying the art of boxing. hitting and not being hit. in the oscar fight he was just hell bent on making oscar miss

a lot of pea's (according to punch stat) landed punches were being taken on the glove. oscar is a master a parry and defending with his glove. pea was great is well at this

[Rumsfeld]

I don't remember the exact score I had, but I definitely thought Sweet Pea won.