Who hit harder....Foreman or Marciano?

[Longhhorn71]

Frazier twice knew what he was getting himself into with George.

Too bad we can't use him as a "test subject" to solve the argument.

My opinion George did....but not so repetitively as The Rock provided.

[TommyV]

Foreman. Not by alot though.

[Russell]

Frazier twice knew what he was getting himself into with George.

Too bad we can't use him as a "test subject" to solve the argument.

My opinion George did....but not so repetitively as The Rock provided.

This is all that needs to be said, really.

Marciano could punch as hard in the 15th as he was in the first.

Foreman hit far harder within the first few rounds, though.

[Bad_Intentions]

Big George did. :good

[Ted Stickles]

If you measure: weight,height,reach,and velocity i bet it would come out in Marcianos favor...But personally im going with George until round 4 then Rocky until round 15

[Maxmomer]

Foreman. By a lot.

[mr. magoo]

Big George did. :good

Like the avator.

God, I'd love to get a good whiff of her ass after a 10 mile run....

[Mendoza]

This is all that needs to be said, really.

Marciano could punch as hard in the 15th as he was in the first.

Foreman hit far harder within the first few rounds, though.

This is how I see it. Foreman's blows out over Frazier and Norton were very impressive.

Foreman hit harder until he gassed out.

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE = They were different types of hitters as Big George Foreman was a clubbing type of puncher that knocked opponents down over and over untill they couldn`t get up any more or the referee stopped the fight. While Marciano would hit you with one clean shot and it was over as with the
Rex Layne fight were he hit Layne one over-hand right and sheared all Laynes front teeth off. Off all the Heavyweight champions only a couple had the power to do that kind of damage. DEMPSEY, LOUIS, MARCIANO, WILLARD
when he was pissed off enough. JOHNSON when he wanted to really hit as he was really into playing with his victims and making them look stupid, BAER who
could KO anybody he could hit and if he really wanted to fight.

[Russell]

BIG DEE HERE = They were different types of hitters as Big George Foreman was a clubbing type of puncher that knocked opponents down over and over untill they couldn`t get up any more or the referee stopped the fight. While Marciano would hit you with one clean shot and it was over as with the
Rex Layne fight were he hit Layne one over-hand right and sheared all Laynes front teeth off. Off all the Heavyweight champions only a couple had the power to do that kind of damage. DEMPSEY, LOUIS, MARCIANO, WILLARD
when he was pissed off enough. JOHNSON when he wanted to really hit as he was really into playing with his victims and making them look stupid, BAER who
could KO anybody he could hit and if he really wanted to fight.

Marciano was known for ruining fighters more than Foreman.

For all of his one punch KO's that are so well known he mauled guys out of there as well.

[mr. magoo]

BIG MAGOO HERE -

Sorry, I've always wanted to do that....

Anyway, I think that Big dee, has a good point about how some punchers pack more power in a single shot while others have constant overwhelming power that can wear a man down. In this particular case however, I do believe that Foreman was the harder puncher from both ends of the spectrum. As sir Russell has already pointed out, Marciano spent a fair amount of time wearing down fighters over prolonged periods of time, with an accumulation of shots, and against men who were quite often, smaller and older as a rule of thumb. Foreman was generally capable of hitting hard in both hands, and regularly scored early KO's over more modern athletes who bigger, stronger, and in most cases, younger. Hell, Foreman was still knocking the bejesus out of young prime fighters 20 years into his old age.

Foreman was the harder hitter of the two in this biased fan's opinion. Long live George...........THE END.............

CREDITS


Cast-Magoo

Executive Producer- Magoo

Producer- Magoo

Writer - Magoo

Editor - Magoo

Key Grip - Magoo

Costume Designer - Magoo

Extras - Magoo

Stunt Coordinator - Magoo

Copyright 2008
The facts and statistics listed in this post are factual and written by a credible poster. Any attempt at trying to refute these claims using falsehoods, misinformation, or flat out bullshit, will result in a serious public ass kicking... have a nice day......;)

[Rock0052]

This is all that needs to be said, really.

Marciano could punch as hard in the 15th as he was in the first.

Foreman hit far harder within the first few rounds, though.
That's how I see it, too. A Foreman with Rocky's conditioning would've been a scary thought, however.

[CottoDaBodykill]

big george by a long shot ... but rocky had more stamina

[Addie]

big george by a long shot ... but rocky had more stamina

Big George knocked out the better fighters. He hit harder.

[CottoDaBodykill]

Big George knocked out the better fighters. He hit harder.yeah i believe that one hundred percent ... i just believe rocky had the stamina to carry his power a little further then foreman ..

[RockyJim]

The Rock....broke bones and bloodvessels.....carried his power into the later rounds...if there were any!!!

[fists of fury]

BIG MAGOO HERE -

Sorry, I've always wanted to do that....



Foreman was the harder hitter of the two in this biased fan's opinion. Long live George...........THE END.............

CREDITS


Cast-Magoo

Executive Producer- Magoo

Producer- Magoo

Writer - Magoo

Editor - Magoo

Key Grip - Magoo

Costume Designer - Magoo

Extras - Magoo

Stunt Coordinator - Magoo

Copyright 2008
The facts and statistics listed in this post are factual and written by a credible poster. Any attempt at trying to refute these claims using falsehoods, misinformation, or flat out bullshit, will result in a serious public ass kicking... have a nice day......;)

This brought a smile to my face...:D

I would also go with Foreman, although Rocky got the job done quite nicely anyway.
I must say though, that Rocky's punches arguably carried more force for the first six inches or so. Basically, his short punches may have been 'harder.'
George, with those long limbs, carried monster power at the end of his shots and almost undoubtedly hit harder when his punches reached maximum velocity.

[round15]

yeah i believe that one hundred percent ... i just believe rocky had the stamina to carry his power a little further then foreman ..

Nice post. Logically you are correct. Marciano had more stamina in order to sustain his power punches for 15 rounds. Foreman is the hardest hitter in heavyweight history IMO, but in his early career, stamina was an issue for him and his power diminished after the middle rounds.

[pugilist_boyd]

Rocky Better 1 Punch Power But Big George Had Better Overall Power

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE= Foreman wasn`t even the hardest hitter of his generation as Earnie Shavers was by a long shot as if Shavers hit you clean the fight was over with one punch but he wasn`t the fighter that Foreman was as you all know anyway. But Earnie Shavers hit guys with one punch and the fight was over as they were out before they hit the damn floor. If Foreman had his kind of power which to this day I`m glad he didn`t he would have killed someone
and I really mean that as nobody in those days had more men carried out of the ring endways as did Earnie Shavers NOBODY.

[Dempsey1238]

Well Foreman's fores keep getting up. Marciano left them out cold.

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE= And with in need of dental work quite badly. Marciano of any
Heavyweight in the last 60 yrs messed more teeth up than anybody I can think of.

[groove]

Well can you see Marciano ko'ing Frazier and Norton in 2 rounds. No didn't think so. Nuff said on this nonsense LOL.

[timmers612]

Freddie Askew who was ko'd by a young Foreman told this story,,and it should put this post to bed...When young and on a Tennesse farm Fred was kicked in the head by an enraged horse and didn't wake up for two days,,,Freddie said George hit harder. Nuff said.

[SuzieQ49]

Magoo, the pre 1954 slugger version of marciano was certainly a one punch ko artist who knocked out young durable guys like layne and matthews out cold with 1-2 punches, not just the old ones.

[JIm Broughton]

Tough call but I'd go with George. The man was a monster even in his 40's. In a way though it's really not fair to compare the two power-wise as they beat on different type fighters. I have a hard time seeing Marciano doing to Frazier and Norton what Foreman did to them but I can see George destroying most of Rocky's opponents except maybe Walcott. Rocky's advantage was that he carried his power late in a fight more consistently than George due to his better stamina(Moorer being the exception). Another factor is the comparative sizes of Rocky and George's opponents. Would Marciano's punches have the same effect on fighters the size and quality of men such as Norton, Frazier, Lyle, Ali, Holyfield, Moorer et al? We lionize Rocky's power to the point of legend but the fact is the fighters of Rocky's time weren't terribly big by modern standards. Most would be considered light heavyweights. Knocking out a 175lb Harry Matthews or 188lb Roland LaStarza or Archie Moore and a severely blown up middleweight like Don Cockell isn't quite the same as bowling over Joe Frazier or Ken Norton or KOing Ron Lyle in a brutal war. I'm not saying that Rocky couldn't punch. That would be stupid. I'm just not sure he could punch in the same ballpark as a more modern day slugger like Foreman.

[Dempsey1238]

I can see Marciano taking out Norton in much the same way Gerry Cooney did.

[Marciano Frazier]

Of the two, Marciano actually has a substantially more impressive track record when it comes to single-punch damage, having done in the likes of Walcott (twice), Layne, Matthews, and numerous journeymen with one or two shots. Foreman's only real noteworthy stoppage of this variety is the Moorer knockout- all the others (Frazier, Norton, Chuvalo, Lyle, etc.) came from extended bludgeonings, usually with multiple knockdowns.
That said, though, what's really impressive about Foreman's power is the way that opponents just crumble under it, early and immediately. He doesn't need to connect exceptionally cleanly or just right; he just swats opponents obtusely and they go down like they've been struck by a hurricane. I think he fails to keep people down for 10 most of the time because he has sort of a clubbing, batting, roundhouse quality to his shots as opposed to a more piercing one. He doesn't just give you a single "BAM!" and the lights go out, but the sheer force of his shots bowls you over, disorients you and renders you utterly helpless before his onslaught. Hence, you're more likely to see a Marciano fight going along uneventfully before Marciano comes up with a single, crushing shot that ends the fight or effectively finishes his opponent than you are a Foreman fight, but you're not going to see Marciano just come out and overwhelm his opponent with his power so that they look like they've been caught in a hurricane the way Foreman does.

So, if we were to ask, "Who has the better one-punch knockout power?" in the sense of actually being able to end a fight with one punch, I would say Marciano (at least up through the second Walcott fight), but in terms of who hit harder in the pure sense, I think Foreman has the advantage.

[Blacc Jesus]

Foreman. By a lot.
Agreed.

[rusty nails]

the 90's foreman nearly killed a few guys with some of the shots he threw.. ill never forget the shot that dropped cooney.. marciano needed to fully connect... the air from foremans swings would knock most men out..

[rekcutnevets]

Foreman was so strong. His punches struck with a force like no other. He really moves his opponents.

Marciano's punches didn't look near as strong to me as Foreman's. Marciano's did, however, look more piercing. Like they were doing damage a little deeper. I don't know if I'm going to be able to describe this the way I want.

I feel like Foreman could knock me down by hitting me on the shoulder. I think it would hurt, but I'd get up and be ok.

I feel like Marciano's punch on my shoulder wouldn't knock me down. I think it may move me a bit, but would hurt really bad. It may also leave a whelp.

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE This is what I said earlier in that Foreman knocked people down
over and over till it was stopped. Marciano KOed guys on his way up with one punch and after he got to the top. His KO of Lee Savold was the type of power of which I was talking in that Marciano drove Savold`s teeth up into his gums and sockets. To put it mildly he impacted Savolds teeth causing
terrible damage to his dental work. Forreman never did things like that.

[mcvey]

BIG DEE HERE This is what I said earlier in that Foreman knocked people down
over and over till it was stopped. Marciano KOed guys on his way up with one punch and after he got to the top. His KO of Lee Savold was the type of power of which I was talking in that Marciano drove Savold`s teeth up into his gums and sockets. To put it mildly he impacted Savolds teeth causing
terrible damage to his dental work. Forreman never did things like that.
While I don't disagree with what you posted, I would add that Foreman lifted Frazier off his feet with shots,I never saw Marciano do that to 200lbs plus fighters,his most impressive kos for me were against Walcott1 and Layne.

[Dempsey1238]

Foreman never lefted Frazier up, Frazier sort of "Hop" with it.

[Mega Lamps]

Thats correct, Frazier seemed to hop with it, he did not appear to actually be lifted off the canvas as many state.

Foreman and Marciano have similar power, neither have alot more as some have stated in this thread. They punch differently leaving different effects which makes it hard to compare their power but in the early rounds, I'd lean toward Foreman. Later rounds, Marciano.
Doesn't matter much though, a punch by either fighter usually means KO.

[mcvey]

What exactly do you think made him "hop with it"? Was the canvas maybe moving ?,Were there moles under it?Don't tell me he was dancing,thats it ,break dancing ,as in broken ,by something colliding with his chin,causing a short in his transmission .Face it he was bounced like the Easter Bunny.

[Mega Lamps]

If I remember right, that wasn't the first time he did that. Done to 'roll with the punch'

[Bummy Davis]

Both men had enough power to KO anyone they hit cleanly, Marciano's power stayed with him into the 15th round, Foreman had more early on but faded

[kenmore]

Foreman was the harder puncher by far.

[kenmore]

Both men had enough power to KO anyone they hit cleanly, Marciano's power stayed with him into the 15th round, Foreman had more early on but faded

Good point. The one area where Marciano had a genuine advantage over Foreman was stamina. Marciano's stamina was superb...Foreman's stamina was faulty.

[Muchmoore]

Foreman never lefted Frazier up, Frazier sort of "Hop" with it.

Exactly I dont know why everyone says he lifted him a foot in the air when Frazier actually just hopped as he was running away. I dont know why he did that but he wasn't sent up by Foreman.

[kenmore]

Exactly I dont know why everyone says he lifted him a foot in the air when Frazier actually just hopped as he was running away. I dont know why he did that but he wasn't sent up by Foreman.

In both fights Foreman seems to lift Frazier off the floor with his uppercuts. Maybe Frazier's hopping away movement had something to do with it, but still, the impact of Foreman's punches is unmistakable.

Watch the final seconds of the second fight in slow motion...it's in round five.

[janitor]

I honestly dont know.

I would guess Foreman but who knows?

[mr. magoo]

BIG DEE HERE This is what I said earlier in that Foreman knocked people down
over and over till it was stopped. Marciano KOed guys on his way up with one punch and after he got to the top. His KO of Lee Savold was the type of power of which I was talking in that Marciano drove Savold`s teeth up into his gums and sockets. To put it mildly he impacted Savolds teeth causing
terrible damage to his dental work. Forreman never did things like that.Foreman's knockout of Michael Moorer was not the result of an on going relentless shit beating. It was a picture perfect shot, and one that came from a 44 year old man by the way. Marciano even in his prime, did not always knock out guys with single shots either. What's more, he was quite often fighting men who were older than he was, and nearing the end of their careers. Louis, Charles, Walcott, Moore, and Lastarza were Marciano's best opponents, and all of them were broken down over a percession of many rounds and numerous punches before losing.......Foreman's best victoms lost earlier, and with fewer shots. They were also typically, bigger, stronger and younger on an average basis, if this is the way we want to do this....

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE= You were not even around when Foreman was the real George Foreman. The Foreman that you saw was a really slow fat old man who`s best quality was being able to take the other guys best punch and ware him down. Michael Moorer was a blown up Lt. Heavyweight that couldn`t take a good punch. He got by fighting Holyfield because Evander Holyfield wasn`t a great puncher as he KOed few men after he went to the Heavyweight division and almost no Class A heavyweights were KOed by Holyfield. as he won by dec. almost all of his fights with top 8 heavyweights.
Compered to Moorer, Kenny Norton had a cast-iron chin. Moorer was just a hard guy to fight as he was a damn southpaw and was good at moving his head. When he got hit with a solid punch by a strong puncher was hurt by
anybody who hit him. They couldn`t handle Foreman at 40 to 46 yrs old how would they ever handle him at 26 yrs old. THEY WOULDN`T, HELL OLD GEORGE FOREMAN WOULD HAVE GOTTEN KOed BY A 26 YR OLD FOREMAN
BEFORE THE FOURTH ROUND. PERIOD. HELL ALEX STEWART DAMN NEAR BEAT HIM TO DEATH AND IF HE COULD DO THAT TO OLD GEORGE. YOUNG GEORGE
WOULD HAVE REALLY FUCKED HIM UP.

[groove]

Agreed. Marciano fans will try anything but accept defeat on this topic. Young Foreman destroyed all his opponents quickly. I think the Ali fight was the first time in 4 years that he went to the 4th round. Marciano could never do to Frazier what Foreman did. And Foreman was knocking bigger heavies out.

[mr. magoo]

=BIG DEE]BIG DEE HERE= You were not even around when Foreman was the real George Foreman. The Foreman that you saw was a really slow fat old man who`s best quality was being able to take the other guys best punch and ware him down.

You ever hear of replays BIG DEE, or is it your assumption that the 1970's preceded the invention of the camera?

Michael Moorer was a blown up Lt. Heavyweight that couldn`t take a good punch.


That " lightheavyweight" was 6'3" 222 Lbs, and nearly 20 years younger than Foreman. In 57 fights, that lightheavyweight who " couldn't take a good punch" was only stopped 3 times, two of which by big punchers, and one coming past his prime. He also showed in some of his fights prior to facing Foreman, that he could come back and win after getting hit with some flush shots by men like Bert Cooper and Alex Stewart. Neither of those men were great fighters, but both could crack.


They couldn`t handle Foreman at 40 to 46 yrs old how would they ever handle him at 26 yrs old. THEY WOULDN`T, HELL OLD GEORGE FOREMAN WOULD HAVE GOTTEN KOed BY A 26 YR OLD FOREMAN
BEFORE THE FOURTH ROUND. PERIOD. HELL ALEX STEWART DAMN NEAR BEAT HIM TO DEATH AND IF HE COULD DO THAT TO OLD GEORGE. YOUNG GEORGE
WOULD HAVE REALLY FUCKED HIM UP.


My whole point is that Foreman could make a good case for hitting harder than Rocky Marciano, weather we're talking at age 26 or 46. You pick which one was better, but I'd say either version was a good candidate for exceding the Rock in power.

[SuzieQ49]

I never saw Marciano do that to 200lbs plus fighters,his most impressive kos for me were against Walcott1 and Layne.


He sent 215lb Joe Louis flying through the ropes out cold. No one ever did that to joe louis old or not.

[Maxmomer]

He sent 215lb Joe Louis flying through the ropes out cold. No one ever did that to joe louis old or not.

Buddy Baer? Also, flying is a bit of an exaggeration. He got KO'd cold and kind of fell through them half way.

[Longhhorn71]

Let's take "The Rock" into the Lab:

Around 1955, Rocky Marciano had his punch measured at a USA military installation, where it is believed that the test was conducted on a ballistic pendulum. Rocky achieved a score of 925 foot-pounds whilst wearing a 12oz. boxing glove. Those who witnessed the test could hardly believe what they had seen.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

(and I'm a Foreman fan)

[mr. magoo]

Let's take "The Rock" into the Lab:

Around 1955, Rocky Marciano had his punch measured at a USA military installation, where it is believed that the test was conducted on a ballistic pendulum. Rocky achieved a score of 925 foot-pounds whilst wearing a 12oz. boxing glove. Those who witnessed the test could hardly believe what they had seen.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

(and I'm a Foreman fan)

And how did the results of this little experiment size up to the scores of other big punchers throughout history, who took the same exact test under identical circumstances?

[SuzieQ49]

Marciano is underated h2h. No one had a style like him, he would be nightmare for many greats in heavyweight history at his best. It takes an ATG heavyweight to beat him IMO.

[Seamus]

Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Who did Foreman KO with one punch? Who did he emphatically KO that was a truly world class fighter? Frazier was depleted, Norton was a b-level fighter whose claim to fame was he possessed the puzzle a past-his-prime Ali could never figure and Moorer was capable of being KO'd by anyone in the top ten of his time.

Look at Foreman's early record. He was one of the most protected heavies in the history of the sport, fighting tomato cans and barely breathing corpses. How many of these guys- Norton and the quickly deteriorating Frazier included- are better than Walcott or Charles?

I think there is an argument to be made here.

[markedwardscott]

Foreman in the early rounds, Marciano in the late rounds. Punch that kayoed Walcott in first fight nearly tore his head off. Could be that the Rock took several rounds to get timing and leverage right for a particular opponent.

[slicksouthpaw16]

OH Foreman by a long shot. Their power is not even romotely close. Foreman not only knockd out the bigger fighters, but he also knocked out the better fighters in a more talented filled division. Marciano's power is severely overrated by many. He was not a one punch knock out artist, but was more of a wear you down kind of fighters that caught up to you in the later rounds. Lets be serious here. The only guy that you could make a case for him hitting harder than Foreman would be Ernie Shavers, which i disagree with becuase Foreman fought and beat the better guys, proving his power against the elite.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Marciano is underated h2h. No one had a style like him, he would be nightmare for many greats in heavyweight history at his best. It takes an ATG heavyweight to beat him IMO.

I personally disagreed. There are a lot of bigger, more skilled heavyweights in the 70s, 80s, early 90s ect that would beat Marciano. Liston would have derailed him had they fought, Ali would have out boxed him badly, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Byrd, Tyson, Tunney, Witherspoon, Holyfield, Mercer, both Klitschkos, Bowe, Tyson, Holmes, Frazier, and a lot of others. What would a 5'10 185 pound presure fighter do with natural heavyweights that would out muscle, out last and out punch him? Lets not forget that the elite guys that he fought such as Moore, Walcott, Charles ect were actually his size, let alone being past their respective primes and coming up from lower weight divisions.

Do not think for one minute that i am disrepecting Rocky, becuase he was a beast and accomplshed things that a lot of great heavyweights cannot claim. He retired as an unbeaten champion and fought the best in his era. HOWEVER, he was fighting guys that were his size. My thing is, would he have been that succussful in a more talented filled division with bigger and stronger prime heavyweight? Thats definitely something to think about.

[kenmore]

This is a really a no brainer...there should be no question that Foreman hit harder than Marciano, and by a wide margin, too. Foreman was possibly boxing's strongest, hardest hitting heavyweight on an all-time basis.

Marciano could hit hard by the standards of small heavyweights. But even at 190 lbs., Marciano wasn't so much of an overwhelmingly hard puncher as much as he was a volume puncher. Marciano would beat his opponents down with endless barrages of blows over multiple rounds. Foreman, by contrast, could blast guys out of there with one punch or with a quick combinations.

Foreman was a much bigger fighter than Marciano was...bigger, more physical, and vastly stronger.

[Langford]

overall, one shot punch vs. one shot punch, I would go with George. George, I feel, had the ability to hit harder, fully extended. But there's more to boxing than who hits the hardest. The idea of someone being able to hit me just as hard after boxing him for 40 minutes is pretty spooky, as is the fact that someone could hit me with almost full power inside a phone booth.

The idea of being on the receiving end of a George Foreman bomb is also the case. If I had to take one shot over the other, I would, take a deep, wish I was somebody else, and point to Rocky. Hoping that, after it was over, I would wake up and still able to put a sentence together.

[KCD]

Foreman.....but Marciano's no Malignaggi you know;)

[Marciano Frazier]

Foreman's knockout of Michael Moorer was not the result of an on going relentless shit beating. It was a picture perfect shot, and one that came from a 44 year old man by the way. Marciano even in his prime, did not always knock out guys with single shots either. What's more, he was quite often fighting men who were older than he was, and nearing the end of their careers. Louis, Charles, Walcott, Moore, and Lastarza were Marciano's best opponents, and all of them were broken down over a percession of many rounds and numerous punches before losing.......Foreman's best victoms lost earlier, and with fewer shots. They were also typically, bigger, stronger and younger on an average basis, if this is the way we want to do this....
Excuse me- this is NOT a "percession" (not sure what you were going for there) of numerous punches!
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Neither is this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Dempsey1238]

overall, one shot punch vs. one shot punch, I would go with George. George, I feel, had the ability to hit harder, fully extended. But there's more to boxing than who hits the hardest. The idea of someone being able to hit me just as hard after boxing him for 40 minutes is pretty spooky, as is the fact that someone could hit me with almost full power inside a phone booth.

The idea of being on the receiving end of a George Foreman bomb is also the case. If I had to take one shot over the other, I would, take a deep, wish I was somebody else, and point to Rocky. Hoping that, after it was over, I would wake up and still able to put a sentence together.

Vingo can hardly put sentences together after the Rock bomb him out. You may also have your teeth smash into your gums, as he did to Layne. You might have chips on your arms also. Marciano was no power puff. He was the real deal. With Foreman, yeah he bomb you out in a round or 2, but in most cases, you be ok.

[Seamus]

Agreed. Marciano fans will try anything but accept defeat on this topic. Young Foreman destroyed all his opponents quickly. I think the Ali fight was the first time in 4 years that he went to the 4th round. Marciano could never do to Frazier what Foreman did. And Foreman was knocking bigger heavies out.

But please acknowledge that outside of a used up Frazier and a chinny, one-trick pony in Norton, all his opponents were absolute shit. What were they protecting?

[SuzieQ49]

Marciano could hit hard by the standards of small heavyweights. But even at 190 lbs., Marciano wasn't so much of an overwhelmingly hard puncher as much as he was a volume puncher. Marciano would beat his opponents down with endless barrages of blows over multiple rounds. Foreman, by contrast, could blast guys out of there with one punch or with a quick combinations.



Film does not support this analysis. Marciano has devastating one-two punch knockouts over walcott, matthews, layne and even louis. who did foreman bomb out with only 1-2 punches in his prime? i never seen a prime foreman score a 1 punch kayo over a good fighter besides moorer at age 45.

[mr. magoo]

Excuse me- this is NOT a "percession" (not sure what you were going for there) of numerous punches!
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Neither is this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

A great punch landed at the tale end of a grueling fight, in which both men had taken a long term pounding. Sorry, but I was never convinced that a single punch is what did in Jersey Joe Walcott that evening. He was a tired fighter who had taken an accumulation of shots, and that big punch was the last and final straw. This does not change my position on the issue.

[mr. magoo]

Film does not support this analysis. Marciano has devastating one-two punch knockouts over walcott, matthews, layne and even louis. who did foreman bomb out with only 1-2 punches in his prime? i never seen a prime foreman score a 1 punch kayo over a good fighter besides moorer at age 45.

Maybe that's because the men he was fighting were live bodies, some of whom had never been Ko'd and were still at or near prime. Who else ever destroyed Joe Frazier like that? I mean really. Norton was not the most durable fighter in the world, but he wasn't the chiniest either. He was probably at his peak when Foreman smoked him. How many people ever stopped George Chuvalo? Lyle took many good shots from Foreman, and even dished out his fair share, but is it really your position that Marciano would just nail one or all these guys with a single shot, and that's all she wrote?

[Seamus]

Film does not support this analysis. Marciano has devastating one-two punch knockouts over walcott, matthews, layne and even louis. who did foreman bomb out with only 1-2 punches in his prime? i never seen a prime foreman score a 1 punch kayo over a good fighter besides moorer at age 45.

And even Michael Moorer admitted that Foreman had softened him up over the preceding three rounds. Go back and look at the tape, people, George hit his rhythm and was peppering Moorer with great jabs and the occasional right for at least three rounds until the end. There is no shame in this. Foreman was a devastating punchers but more thudding and demoralizing than concussive with a single punch.

[radianttwilight]

After watching tape of both men, Foreman seems more likely to hurt/stun/KO with a glancing blow, but I'd rather take a Foreman bomb than a flush Marciano bomb any day of the week.

I think what made Foreman so effective as a puncher was not his sheer punching power, but the strength of his punches. He didn't need to land clean to hurt you, but his punches had a way of making guys stop defending themself (Frazier, Norton) that is kind of unique. Once they got hit, even if they weren't really hurt, they would either freeze and soak up punishment or simply be unable to protect themselves.

I don't feel that a shot from Foreman could do any long-lasting damage to me, or even kill me for that matter. Sure it would KO me, but in a "would you do it for $10000?"-type scenario, I would consider it.

On the other hand, I would be genuinely fearful of getting caught on the end of the Suzie Q.

[Bill1234]

A great punch landed at the tale end of a grueling fight, in which both men had taken a long term pounding. Sorry, but I was never convinced that a single punch is what did in Jersey Joe Walcott that evening. He was a tired fighter who had taken an accumulation of shots, and that big punch was the last and final straw. This does not change my position on the issue.

He was out cold for over 3 minutes, had it been the first round I think it would have been the same effect.

[Bill1234]

After watching tape of both men, Foreman seems more likely to hurt/stun/KO with a glancing blow, but I'd rather take a Foreman bomb than a flush Marciano bomb any day of the week.

I think what made Foreman so effective as a puncher was not his sheer punching power, but the strength of his punches. He didn't need to land clean to hurt you, but his punches had a way of making guys stop defending themself (Frazier, Norton) that is kind of unique. Once they got hit, even if they weren't really hurt, they would either freeze and soak up punishment or simply be unable to protect themselves.

I don't feel that a shot from Foreman could do any long-lasting damage to me, or even kill me for that matter. Sure it would KO me, but in a "would you do it for $10000?"-type scenario, I would consider it.

On the other hand, I would be genuinely fearful of getting caught on the end of the Suzie Q.

I agree with this whole post. 5 stars.:good

[Marciano Frazier]

A great punch landed at the tale end of a grueling fight, in which both men had taken a long term pounding. Sorry, but I was never convinced that a single punch is what did in Jersey Joe Walcott that evening. He was a tired fighter who had taken an accumulation of shots, and that big punch was the last and final straw. This does not change my position on the issue.
1. You ignored the rematch.
2. Do you honestly think that shot, which put Walcott out cold as a doorknob so badly he wouldn't have beaten a 60-count, would not have knocked him out had it landed in the first round? If so, I think you're being extremely silly. If Walcott had gone down and struggled mightily to arise, but he couldn't quite get his equilibrium back or his legs just failed him, you might have a case. But it's just plain laughable to suggest that Walcott was knocked out cold so badly that spectators thought he'd been killed from a single punch because he was tired.
3. Even if this rationale actually worked (which it absolutely does not), it could be applied just as well to Foreman-Moorer; in fact, there is a much better case for such an influence on Foreman's KO over Moorer, as Moorer himself said Foreman had softened him up slightly in the prior rounds, said that he was already hurt from a glancing shot a moment earlier before Foreman hit him with the KO punch, and was not out cold, but struggled to get up and didn't have quite the strength/equilibrium to do so. As one-punch knockouts go, Foreman's over Moorer is far less impressive than Marciano's over Walcott. Moreover, Marciano has one or two-punch knockouts over not only Walcott- twice- but Layne and Matthews as well. Foreman's only noteworthy win which could be seen as a one-punch knockout is the Moorer fight. If anything, Foreman generally took more knockdowns than Marciano did to finish his man off.

[SuzieQ49]

Maybe that's because the men he was fighting were live bodies, some of whom had never been Ko'd and were still at or near prime.


Rex Layne 23 years old 34-1(25) never stopped before, rated # 2 by ring magazine was not a live body?


Harry Kid Mathews 81-3 29 years old, never down for the 10 count before, rated # 5 by Ring Magazine was not a live body?

[Dempsey1238]

Walcott, Layne, Charles, and Moore were lived bodys when they battle the Rock. They were not corpses, They were not Ali vs Holmes or Holyfiled vs Toney.

[groove]

Foreman was knocking out bigger fighters like Frazier, Norton, Lyle and stopping guys like Chuvalu early on. Top fighters couldn't last 2 rounds when Foreman was champ. Most of Marciano's championship fights went to the mid to late rounds.

[mcvey]

Rex Layne 23 years old 34-1(25) never stopped before, rated # 2 by ring magazine was not a live body?


Harry Kid Mathews 81-3 29 years old, never down for the 10 count before, rated # 5 by Ring Magazine was not a live body?
Joe Walcott rated Marciano's one punch power ,superior to that of Louis,that has to be considered very carefully as Walcott was in the position to know.I think Rocky's kos over Layne and Walcott are chilling,as is Foremans club down of Frazier,and Norton.No one can really give you a definitive answer on this but Marciano ,especially given his size was a freak when it came to one punch power,his stubby legs were the foundation from which he brought up his wallops ,and he could do it late in a fight too.The man was a one- off really.

[Bill1234]

Foreman was knocking out bigger fighters like Frazier, Norton, Lyle and stopping guys like Chuvalu early on. Top fighters couldn't last 2 rounds when Foreman was champ. Most of Marciano's championship fights went to the mid to late rounds.

That's because he was a slow starter, much like Frazier.

[mr. magoo]

=Marciano Frazier]1. You ignored the rematch.


I did not ignore it, just wrote it off as a win over a shot fighter.
Not to mention, I'd say you ignore plenty of facts yourself friend, both in this debate as well as many others. You're already ingnoring:

A. Foreman had a higher win/ko percentage than any lineal champion in history..

B. Foreman, KO'd more men, who were larger on average, did so in less rounds and with less punches ( never mind your crap about needing to floor fighters more, as Marciano wouldn't floor many of the fighters Foreman KO'd. )

C. Foreman scored early round knockouts over fighters who were younger and in some cases rated higher on a lot of people's all time lists.

How many people rate Walcott higher than Frazier? How many times was Frazier knocked out in his career, and list those who did it... How many times was Walcott Ko'd? Who did it? My point has been made....



2. Do you honestly think that shot, which put Walcott out cold as a doorknob so badly he wouldn't have beaten a 60-count, would not have knocked him out had it landed in the first round?

Do you honestly think that this was the first shot that Marciano hit him with in 13 rounds? Do you also honestly think that fatigue has nothing to do with it? The central and peripheral nervous systems tire over long periods of strenuous activity, making traumatic blows more damaging. The same goes in other sports. Football players tend to become more prone to paralizing injuries as they fatigue, despite taking greater hits with more force at an earlier stage in the game...Walcott getting knocked out for 3 minutes, or whatever doesn't necessarily mean that Marciano hit harder than Foreman. Regardless of weather you agree with my rebuddle.

If so, I think you're being extremely silly.

I think you're looking rather silly yourself

If Walcott had gone down and struggled mightily to arise, but he couldn't quite get his equilibrium back or his legs just failed him, you might have a case.

If you're trying to prove that Marciano hit harder than Foreman, then I DO HAVE A CASE....... Foreman's biggest KO wins did not come against sub 200 Lb fighters who were 37+ years old, had multiple defeats, and were exhausted to shit.. Make what you will about Rocky's windstorm of a punch, but this does not prove that he hit harder than Foreman, as the circumstances do not make for such a claim, nor comparison.



But it's just plain laughable to suggest that Walcott was knocked out cold so badly that spectators thought he'd been killed from a single punch because he was tired.


Who cares?

3. Even if this rationale actually worked (which it absolutely does not), it could be applied just as well to Foreman-Moorer; in fact, there is a much better case for such an influence on Foreman's KO over Moorer, as Moorer himself said Foreman had softened him up slightly in the prior rounds, said that he was already hurt from a glancing shot a moment earlier before Foreman hit him with the KO punch, and was not out cold, but struggled to get up and didn't have quite the strength/equilibrium to do so. As one-punch knockouts go, Foreman's over Moorer is far less impressive than Marciano's over Walcott.

Oh this is precious.

Somehow, the collosal KO of a 45 year old man on the comeback trail, over a 28 year old champion who is 35-0, is not as impressive as the KO of a 28 year old contender over a 37 year old veteran, who was previously beaten 16 times, and stopped on 4 occasions. Not to mention, in a fight that stretched 13 rounds, and probably had more to do with fatigue, than a good shot that came at the last minute... Once again, you emphasize the points that YOU feel are most pertinant, but ingnore the whole picture...

Great one MF....:good ( whatever that stands for )


Moreover, Marciano has one or two-punch knockouts over not only Walcott- twice- but Layne and Matthews as well. Foreman's only noteworthy win which could be seen as a one-punch knockout is the Moorer fight. If anything, Foreman generally took more knockdowns than Marciano did to finish his man off.

Once again, Foreman GENERALLY, fought larger men who were in their primes, had higher status, lost earlier, and with less shots on most occasions. If you're going by what was GENERALLY the case, then I just gave you the criteria to go by. Or are you going to pick and chose a single criterian, ( as you usually do ), that YOU feel outweighs the multiple factors that others have provided?

P.S. I appologize if I sounded a tad obnoxious in this post, but keep in mind, I rarely if ever have gone after your posts the way you usually go after mine. If anyone has come off as being a bit arrogant here, it was you before it was me, even if you might not have intended to MF..

[Marciano Frazier]

I did not ignore it, just wrote it off as a win over a shot fighter.
Not to mention, I'd say you ignore plenty of facts yourself friend, both in this debate as well as many others. You're already ingnoring:

A. Foreman had a higher win/ko percentage than any lineal champion in history..
Marciano had a higher fight/KO percentage than any lineal champion- including Foreman- in history, which is a more valid tally.

B. Foreman, KO'd more men, who were larger on average, did so in less rounds and with less punches ( never mind your crap about needing to floor fighters more, as Marciano wouldn't floor many of the fighters Foreman KO'd. )
"less rounds"
- Let it be pointed out that Marciano has a substantially higher percentage of first-round knockouts out of his total fights than Foreman. If you want to talk total mean average number of rounds per knockout, Foreman would probably come out ahead, but let it be further pointed out that this is largely because Marciano had much better stamina and so scored more knockouts deep into fights, whereas Foreman generally didn't get you at all if he didn't get you early (notice I said GENERALLY- I acknowledge he did stop Peralta and Moorer once apiece in the later rounds).
"less punches"
-The needing-to-floor-fighters-more thing is not "crap" at all. It's a valid observation. Even if you watch Foreman against obscure journeymen, he usually has to bounce them up and down a fair amount before he stops them. It's virtually never that you see Foreman just pop someone on the jaw once out of the blue and end the fight. Marciano regularly flattened journeymen- including big ones- with single shots, and did so to multiple elite fighters as well. As I have discussed before and will do again in this post, I actually DON'T think this is because Foreman hit less "hard" (*notice I am making an effort to analyze the data and AM NOT simply taking a given piece of data and declaring that there is one and only one valid interpretation of it, that being the one I like best)- rather, I think it is because of the differing quality of his punches and his offense as a whole.

C. Foreman scored early round knockouts over fighters who were younger and in some cases rated higher on a lot of people's all time lists.
True.

Do you honestly think that this was the first shot that Marciano hit him with in 13 rounds? Do you also honestly think that fatigue has nothing to do with it? The central and peripheral nervous systems tire over long periods of strenuous activity, making traumatic blows more damaging. The same goes in other sports. Football players tend to become more prone to paralizing injuries as they fatigue, despite taking greater hits with more force at an earlier stage in the game...
What you don't seem to be acknowledging here is the obvious difference in degree and type of occurence. Walcott had not taken any sustained, brutal battering up to that point; granted, he had been in a fight and was not as fresh as a daisy, but he had never been wobbled or taken a sustained attack. By his own account, he felt great going into the last round. And this is just plain not the sort of knockout in which there is room for doubt about such a thing as a guy having gone down from exhaustion; a punch that- without your having been at all wobbled before- knocks you out so cold you slump limply into the ropes, flop face-first onto the floor and are counted out without even showing a sign of life, then are revived several 10-counts worth later by doctors, will put you out any time it lands.

Walcott getting knocked out for 3 minutes, or whatever doesn't necessarily mean that Marciano hit harder than Foreman. Regardless of weather you agree with my rebuddle.
No, it does not necessarily mean such a thing, but it is obviously evidence which lends credence to such a claim, which is all that can be mustered in this thread.

I think you're looking rather silly yourself
This looks like a good occasion for a poll to me.


If you're trying to prove that Marciano hit harder than Foreman, then I DO HAVE A CASE....... Foreman's biggest KO wins did not come against sub 200 Lb fighters who were 37+ years old, had multiple defeats, and were exhausted to shit.. Make what you will about Rocky's windstorm of a punch, but this does not prove that he hit harder than Foreman, as the circumstances do not make for such a claim, nor comparison.
Read the analysis in the first post I made on this thread for my opinion about how "hard" each man hit relative to the other one. I believe that Marciano- at least in 1952 and earlier- had (not a "harder," but) a more piercing, concussive sort of punch, as evidenced by his repeated one-or-two-punch knockouts over elite fighters (Layne, Matthews, Walcott twice), which do, in fact, constitute a MUCH more impressive resume of such wins than Foreman can muster, but that Foreman's punches were "harder" in a PSI sense, as evidenced by the way he seems to forcefully move opponents and even bowl them over with his punches- his punches are simply of a blunter quality, a little closer to a push than a bullet, with less concentrated force, so that they slam you around and knock you down with sheer force, but don't directly separate you from your senses and leave you out cold. Hence we see Foreman hurting and bowling guys over earlier and without needing to land so cleanly as Marciano, but failing to keep them down the way Marciano could.

Who cares?
Someone who wants to make a judgment on the question posed at the beginning of this thread which takes all the relevant data into account.


Oh this is precious.

Somehow, the collosal KO of a 45 year old man on the comeback trail, over a 28 year old champion who is 35-0, is not as impressive as the KO of a 28 year old contender over a 37 year old veteran, who was previously beaten 16 times, and stopped on 4 occasions. Not to mention, in a fight that stretched 13 rounds, and probably had more to do with fatigue, than a good shot that came at the last minute... Once again, you emphasize the points that YOU feel are most pertinant, but ingnore the whole picture...
You are at least as guilty of such an action as I am. The WHOLE picture would further include the fact that Walcott- regardless of record statistics which you should be aware are misleading- was a better and much more accomplished fighter than Moorer, that Walcott was knocked clean out cold in stunning fashion and in a clear instance of a single punch ending the fight as opposed to Moorer being fully conscious after being hurt with a prior punch and decked with a one-two, and that

Great one MF....:good ( whatever that stands for )
That was really called for, wasn't it?

Once again, Foreman GENERALLY, fought larger men who were in their primes, had higher status, lost earlier, and with less shots on most occasions. If you're going by what was GENERALLY the case, then I just gave you the criteria to go by. Or are you going to pick and chose a single criterian, ( as you usually do ), that YOU feel outweighs the multiple factors that others have provided?
I rarely, if ever, argue by a "single criterion," and I have certainly not done so in this thread. You are choosing a set of statistics and anecdotal arguments which favor the side of the argument you're arguing and ignoring the rest, and- largely to uphold the other end, as you seem to be haughtily dismissing the idea that anyone could reasonably disagree with you or that any other data could be relevant- I am doing the same for the side I'm taking. PLEASE READ what I write below this.

You want multiple criteria which can be used to reasonably dispute the claim you've just propped up? Here:
Marciano had a higher knockout percentage than Foreman.
Marciano had a higher ratio of first round knockouts out of his fights than Foreman did.
Marciano had far more in the way of sudden one-or-two punch knockouts than Foreman.
Marciano showed absolutely no decrease in power against the big opponents he did face, and, in fact, stopped every single one of them, usually in the first round.

Let it further be pointed out that, though Foreman's opponents were generally younger and bigger, a much higher percentage of them had losing records, and that the "less punches" claim is extremely dubious, especially given that Marciano scored several one-or-two-punch knockouts over elite opponents, which are the obviously the type most directly demonstrative of pure one-punch power, while Foreman on only one instance produced such a knockout.

P.S. I appologize if I sounded a tad obnoxious in this post, but keep in mind, I rarely if ever have gone after your posts the way you usually go after mine. If anyone has come off as being a bit arrogant here, it was you before it was me, even if you might not have intended to MF..
While I think I pushed it slightly with the "If so, I think you're being very silly" line (*still not a personal attack, only a chiding on a particular stance), I've certainly never gone so far in mocking and at least strongly implying personal insult ("whatever that stands for") to a poster for arguing a (slightly, in this case, as, like I said above, I actually AGREE with you in strict terms) different viewpoint than mine as you have above. I hope that you will attempt to use less of the type of openly-abrasive content you've put forth here in the future, and will watch not to sound arrogant myself.

[El Matador]

To be perfectly honest, I would rather be hit by Foreman than Marciano. With Foreman, at least a young Foreman, he would throw wider punches, and he was so strong, he would still carry enormous power. But Marciano would wing his punches shorter, and put his entire frame and leverage into them (what he did to, what's his name, Vingo? Carmine Vingo? that was bad).

But getting hit by either of them would knock me out.

So it really doesn't matter who hits harder. They both hit hard!!!

[mr. magoo]

Marciano had a higher fight/KO percentage than any lineal champion- including Foreman- in history, which is a more valid tally.


"less rounds"
- Let it be pointed out that Marciano has a substantially higher percentage of first-round knockouts out of his total fights than Foreman. If you want to talk total mean average number of rounds per knockout, Foreman would probably come out ahead, but let it be further pointed out that this is largely because Marciano had much better stamina and so scored more knockouts deep into fights, whereas Foreman generally didn't get you at all if he didn't get you early (notice I said GENERALLY- I acknowledge he did stop Peralta and Moorer once apiece in the later rounds).
"less punches"
-The needing-to-floor-fighters-more thing is not "crap" at all. It's a valid observation. Even if you watch Foreman against obscure journeymen, he usually has to bounce them up and down a fair amount before he stops them. It's virtually never that you see Foreman just pop someone on the jaw once out of the blue and end the fight. Marciano regularly flattened journeymen- including big ones- with single shots, and did so to multiple elite fighters as well. As I have discussed before and will do again in this post, I actually DON'T think this is because Foreman hit less "hard" (*notice I am making an effort to analyze the data and AM NOT simply taking a given piece of data and declaring that there is one and only one valid interpretation of it, that being the one I like best)- rather, I think it is because of the differing quality of his punches and his offense as a whole.


True.


What you don't seem to be acknowledging here is the obvious difference in degree and type of occurence. Walcott had not taken any sustained, brutal battering up to that point; granted, he had been in a fight and was not as fresh as a daisy, but he had never been wobbled or taken a sustained attack. By his own account, he felt great going into the last round. And this is just plain not the sort of knockout in which there is room for doubt about such a thing as a guy having gone down from exhaustion; a punch that- without your having been at all wobbled before- knocks you out so cold you slump limply into the ropes, flop face-first onto the floor and are counted out without even showing a sign of life, then are revived several 10-counts worth later by doctors, will put you out any time it lands.


No, it does not necessarily mean such a thing, but it is obviously evidence which lends credence to such a claim, which is all that can be mustered in this thread.


This looks like a good occasion for a poll to me.



Read the analysis in the first post I made on this thread for my opinion about how "hard" each man hit relative to the other one. I believe that Marciano- at least in 1952 and earlier- had (not a "harder," but) a more piercing, concussive sort of punch, as evidenced by his repeated one-or-two-punch knockouts over elite fighters (Layne, Matthews, Walcott twice), which do, in fact, constitute a MUCH more impressive resume of such wins than Foreman can muster, but that Foreman's punches were "harder" in a PSI sense, as evidenced by the way he seems to forcefully move opponents and even bowl them over with his punches- his punches are simply of a blunter quality, a little closer to a push than a bullet, with less concentrated force, so that they slam you around and knock you down with sheer force, but don't directly separate you from your senses and leave you out cold. Hence we see Foreman hurting and bowling guys over earlier and without needing to land so cleanly as Marciano, but failing to keep them down the way Marciano could.


Someone who wants to make a judgment on the question posed at the beginning of this thread which takes all the relevant data into account.



You are at least as guilty of such an action as I am. The WHOLE picture would further include the fact that Walcott- regardless of record statistics which you should be aware are misleading- was a better and much more accomplished fighter than Moorer, that Walcott was knocked clean out cold in stunning fashion and in a clear instance of a single punch ending the fight as opposed to Moorer being fully conscious after being hurt with a prior punch and decked with a one-two, and that


That was really called for, wasn't it?


I rarely, if ever, argue by a "single criterion," and I have certainly not done so in this thread. You are choosing a set of statistics and anecdotal arguments which favor the side of the argument you're arguing and ignoring the rest, and- largely to uphold the other end, as you seem to be haughtily dismissing the idea that anyone could reasonably disagree with you or that any other data could be relevant- I am doing the same for the side I'm taking. PLEASE READ what I write below this.

You want multiple criteria which can be used to reasonably dispute the claim you've just propped up? Here:
Marciano had a higher knockout percentage than Foreman.
Marciano had a higher ratio of first round knockouts out of his fights than Foreman did.
Marciano had far more in the way of sudden one-or-two punch knockouts than Foreman.
Marciano showed absolutely no decrease in power against the big opponents he did face, and, in fact, stopped every single one of them, usually in the first round.

Let it further be pointed out that, though Foreman's opponents were generally younger and bigger, a much higher percentage of them had losing records, and that the "less punches" claim is extremely dubious, especially given that Marciano scored several one-or-two-punch knockouts over elite opponents, which are the obviously the type most directly demonstrative of pure one-punch power, while Foreman on only one instance produced such a knockout.


While I think I pushed it slightly with the "If so, I think you're being very silly" line (*still not a personal attack, only a chiding on a particular stance), I've certainly never gone so far in mocking and at least strongly implying personal insult ("whatever that stands for") to a poster for arguing a (slightly, in this case, as, like I said above, I actually AGREE with you in strict terms) different viewpoint than mine as you have above. I hope that you will attempt to use less of the type of openly-abrasive content you've put forth here in the future, and will watch not to sound arrogant myself.

Fair points, and good analysis. I agree at some points, while disagreeing at others. Sorry, for my earlier comment..

[SuzieQ49]

It seems magoo places more emphasis on early round knockout than late round knockouts. I guess David tua with all his late heroic knockouts wasnt as hard a puncher as foreman eh? Guys like mike weaver, joe louis, rocky marciano, david tua these guys had special blend of late one punch clutch power...

[mcvey]

Marciano kod or ,tkod 9 men over 200lbs.the best of them Louis was past his prime as was Savold who scaled 200lbs when Marciano stopped him,nearly all the others had losing records,Johnny Shkor might have been the best out of the other 200lbs plus guys his record was 29-18-2 and he weighed 2201/2.Foreman obviously kod bigger men and most of them were better men,.Marcianos best wins were over a 37 year old and a 32 year old both slightly past their best.Louis was 36 .

[Bill1234]

In my opinion Marciano is one of the greatest 1 punch KO punchers of all time. I think he has more 1 punch, out cold power than Foreman, but all around Foreman is the harder puncher.