Which other ATGs would beat the version of Ali that Frazier beat?

[Bokaj]

Sorry to keep on going with these hypothectical match-ups, but you keep writing good posts about them so...

[mr. magoo]

1.Norton would have always given Ali trouble, but its 50/50 as to weather he'd beat Ali in 1971.

2.Holmes anytime between 1978-1981 would have been a very formidable test for a 1971 Ali, but again its 50/50.

3.A peak Mike Tyson ( pre-Douglas, for those who are going to jump all over that fight like flies on hoarse manure ) could have given a FOTC Ali some trouble as well.

There are probably a few others, but at this point none come to mind. Ali in my opinion was at his all time peak around 1967, but was still very formidable in 1971, therefore I wouldn't pick too many fighters to beat that version either.

[Hatesrats]

I'd like to throw a peak Evander Holyfield into the mix...
Evander is one of the only fighter's of recent memory
I can see keeping the pace that Fraizer was able to put Vs. (FOTC) Ali.

+ Evander can throw one hell of a left hook himself. (Awesome in Fighter)
(Would be kinda like a Bastard version of the Bowe/Holyfield I fight)

[mr. magoo]

I'd like to throw a peak Evander Holyfield into the mix...
Evander is one of the only fighter's of recent memory
I can see keeping the pace that Fraizer was able to put Vs. (FOTC) Ali.

+ Evander can throw one hell of a left hook himself. (Awesome in Fighter)
(Would be kinda like a Bastard version of the Bowe/Holyfield I fight)

Yeah I suppose, a 1989 or 1990 version of Holyfield might have been a hard earned pay day for Ali at any point in his career.

[guilalah]

I suspect any atg heavy from Sullivan on would have had at least an even chance with FOTC Ali, even including Liston and Foreman.

[Joe E]

If your talking the Ali of '71 against prime ATG then:
Johnson
Dempsey
Tunney
Louis
Marciano

And just for the Hell of it, Walcott, Charles.

[JIm Broughton]

A prime Holmes, Holyfield, Dempsey and Lewis would stand a good chance of beating FOTC Ali. Ali would be favored but not by much IMO.

[rekcutnevets]

Holmes or Lewis would have the best chance.

Holyfield has never looked good against a fighter that moves away from him, prime nor after. Holyfield needed someone to come forward, or at least an opponent that stands his ground, to look good.

[Holmes' Jab]

I think Lennox Lewis under Stewart's tutilidge would stand a very good chance, Holmes would be a decent bet too. Whilst Tyson would pose Ali some problems with his movement, power and handspeed I really can't envisage him forcing a stoppage and Ali would win enough rounds to sway the decision towards him.

[markedwardscott]

Frazier won by relentless pressure and body attack.

Dempsey, Louis, Marciano could have beat Ali that night, but not championship Ali.

[McGrain]

The other 8 HW fighters in my top 8 and how I see it


Joe Louis. Joe could get the job done in my view. He is a wonderous puncher and a stalker who would certainly be able to take advantage of Ali's weakening legs. There is a chance that Louis would be smothered late on having been marked up by the Ali jab early, but I pick Joe.

Sonny Liston. Ali could win this one on points. Liston would give Ali some horrible, horrible moments crowding him with an aggressive rush, but Ali is a world class grappler with incredible punch resistance. Ali would get enough rounds under his belt in a painful one.

Lennox Lewis. There is so much here to ponder. How does Lewis do between 12 and 15? Does Ali's superior reflexes allow him to win the battle of the jabs, or does he get tired and start to drop shots? How does Lewis react to being repeatedly stung by punches and losing early rounds to such a good boxer. My guess? Lewis loses rounds 13, 14 and 15 to drop a razor thin decision.

Jack Johnson. Jack is in trouble because Ali has superior balance which closes the gap between their respective strengths (I see Johnson as the stronger fighter). Two smart fighters, too. But I think that Johnson is ********* on the outside and does not have a serious advantage on the inside in my view. Ali on points.

Something to ponder - is Ali quicker than Johnson in terms of reaction time? I think so but it is close. If I am wrong, I would see something very, very, very close.

Jim Jeffries. Has a very good chance, but I think that Ali could afford to stay on his toes for quiet a while against JIm and put enough rounds in the bank.

Mike Tyson. Mike would suffer frustration. I feel any great fighter that could break his rythym could beat him. I pick Ali.

Larry Holmes. Would win a shit one on points.

Rocky Marciano. Would win an absolute thriller on points.

[guilalah]

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[Only registered and activated users can see links] Re: Which other ATGs would beat the version of Ali that Frazier beat?
I suspect any atg heavy from Sullivan on would have had at least an even chance with FOTC Ali, even including Liston and Foreman.






I exaggerated. A little.

[mcvey]

Sorry to keep on going with these hypothectical match-ups, but you keep writing good posts about them so...
Well I'm drunk,,but in answer to your question ,very f*****g few.

[ChrisPontius]

Well I'm drunk,,but in answer to your question ,very f*****g few.

You're giving Frazier a lot of credit with a great win then.




Drunk people always say what they really think.

[mcvey]

You're giving Frazier a lot of credit with a great win then.




Drunk people always say what they really think.
Hello Chris ,yes I give Frazier , all the credit in the world. I think, on that night, in MSG,there would be very ,very ,few men that would have beaten Joe Frazier ,in fact possibly none,he was a man possessed,immovable and undentable.As Ali said of him "whatever the price ,he will pay it".In contrast, he thought Foreman was wary of taking sustained punishment .Joe left a lot of himself in that ring,Ali too,we were the lucky ones who saw it,two undefeated Champs,unprecedented,and a fight that not only lived up to the hype, but surpassed it.No bull shit Frazier was a very great warrior that night.

[Chinxkid]

Well I'm drunk,,but in answer to your question ,very f*****g few.

Drunk or not, I pretty much agree, but then I'm hungover.

I'll say Tyson, if he's feeling loved that night, and as was discussed on another thread, I think Marciano does have a shot, has the right style to give Muhummad alotta trouble. Might have been Bummy Davis who said on that thread that Rocky would have thrown off his rhythm, a good point I think. Also Joe Louis always has a chance.

[PowerPuncher]

If your talking the Ali of '71 against prime ATG then:
Johnson
Dempsey
Tunney
Louis
Marciano

And just for the Hell of it, Walcott, Charles.

The only 1 of those with a shot is Marciano. None of the others have the stylistic abilities to beat even a '71 Ali

I'd say:

Lennox Lewis - slight favourate
Holmes - 50-50, or 40-60 Ali
Marciano - 60-40 or 50-50 like Frazier with a better right but maybe less intense
Holyfield - 60-40
Tyson - 60-40

No one else has a decent chance including Louis, Liston, Johnson, Dempsey.

[ChrisPontius]

Hello Chris ,yes I give Frazier , all the credit in the world. I think, on that night, in MSG,there would be very ,very ,few men that would have beaten Joe Frazier ,in fact possibly none,he was a man possessed,immovable and undentable.As Ali said of him "whatever the price ,he will pay it".In contrast, he thought Foreman was wary of taking sustained punishment .Joe left a lot of himself in that ring,Ali too,we were the lucky ones who saw it,two undefeated Champs,unprecedented,and a fight that not only lived up to the hype, but surpassed it.No bull shit Frazier was a very great warrior that night.

I'm gonna miss you when you're sober again.

[mcvey]

Tyson would have looked good for a few rounds with his quick hands and power ,but he didnt have the guts of a Frazier,and imo,would have become frustrated and start looking for a way out ,via ,either an arm break ,or an ear bite.Now, if Will Smith was in there, doing his Ali impersonation,,Mike would really have had something to go for! Chris ,I told you true ,Frazier on that night would not be denied,it broke my heart ,at the time ,but he won the fight.I have my doubts anyone could have beaten him ,during those 45 minutes.PS I will retract this later ,when I'm sober :lol: