Most Avoided/Ducked Fighters

[Jupiter1610]

Who have been boxing's most avoided/feared fighters? Charly Burley often comes up, who else?

[Bad_Intentions]

avoided/feared would be james jeffries.

sam langford advertised he would fight any man in the world except james jeffries. :rofl:

[jyuza]

Mike Mc Callum.

[janitor]

The most avoided fighter of all time pound for pound is-

Barbados Joe Walcott

He was avoided by champions and top contenders in every class from lightweight to heavyweight.

[Luigi1985]

The most avoided fighter of all time pound for pound is-

Barbados Joe Walcott

He was avoided by champions and top contenders in every class from lightweight to heavyweight.



Very good choice, I would have respond with Burley and Barbados Joe Walcott too! Btw., if you want, read my little article in Great forgotten fighters, Part VII! :thumbsup

[Duodenum]

Hagler was rated as the number one middleweight by most media authorities, from Monzon's retirement in August 1977, until his actual dethroning of Alan Minter in September 1980. Liston may well have been the best heavyweight, from January 1958 to September 1962, when he finally kayoed Patterson. Peak Jimmy Young made everybody he faced look bad, between the Shavers draw in 1974 to the first Ocasio match in June, 1978. Tyrone Everett toyed with Escalera, and may have been the best P4P in the world at the time of his murder.

[TBooze]

Who have been boxing's most avoided/feared fighters? Charly Burley often comes up, who else?

Great call on Burley; if Sugar Ray did not want to fight him (with his alledged 'I'm too pretty' quote), then you know Burley was a 'ducked' fighter!

Other 'modern' fighters that stick out; Archie Moore, Marvin Hagler, Aaron Pryor, Bob Foster, Charles Williams, Herol Graham and Eusebio Pedroza

[Titan1]

Great call on Burley; if Sugar Ray did not want to fight him (with his alledged 'I'm too pretty' quote), then you know Burley was a 'ducked' fighter!

Other 'modern' fighters that stick out; Archie Moore, Marvin Hagler, Aaron Pryor, Bob Foster, Charles Williams, Herol Graham and Eusebio Pedroza

Who ducked Pryor and Pedroza?:huh

[TBooze]

Who ducked Pryor and Pedroza?:huh

Pryor was ducked by the Lightweights of the late 70s when Duran moved up, so he had to move up himself to 140. Also although it probably he was not being intentially ducked; although spoken about Pryor/Leonard and Pryor/Hearns never happened...

Sanchez made it clear before his death he was not intrested in Pedroza nor was any of the excting fighters of the 130 and 135lbers of the era. Pedroza may not of been the most exciting fighter, but he was effective in his own (dirty;) ) way, and as such the bigger names did find a way to avoid him IMO.

[rekcutnevets]

All mentioned before are good posts.

Winky Wright. Margarito.

[Thread Stealer]

All mentioned before are good posts.

Winky Wright. Margarito.

Winky used to be avoided but he's no longer avoided. He gets the big fights and paydays now (except for the Oscar one he's long wanted).

[Duodenum]

Pryor was ducked by the Lightweights of the late 70s when Duran moved up, so he had to move up himself to 140. Also although it probably he was not being intentially ducked; although spoken about Pryor/Leonard and Pryor/Hearns never happened...

Sanchez made it clear before his death he was not intrested in Pedroza nor was any of the excting fighters of the 130 and 135lbers of the era. Pedroza may not of been the most exciting fighter, but he was effective in his own (dirty;) ) way, and as such the bigger names did find a way to avoid him IMO.

Pryor also would have probably loved a chance to avenge his defeat to Howard Davis Jr. at the 1976 US Olympic boxing trials.

After Pedroza kayoed Pat Ford in far more impressive fashion than Sanchez decisioned him, he told Cosell that he was ready to take on Sal at any time. Because of Ford's acclaimed performance against Sanchez in his previous match (which many believed Pat won), the fact that Pedroza was defending at home, and Eusebio's awareness of ABC's viewing audience, he was especially outstanding in shutting out Ford. Several seconds after he went to his toes, with the Guyanan on the ropes, he thrilled the spectators by dropping Ford for the count with a bolo right. Just then, Pedroza made it appear that Sal was indeed the number two featherweight. A real shame no unification ever took place between them, or even a nontitle Zarate/Zamora type matchup. (Who knows for sure what that outcome would've been?)

[My dinner with Conteh]

Hagler was rated as the number one middleweight by most media authorities, from Monzon's retirement in August 1977, until his actual dethroning of Alan Minter in September 1980. Liston may well have been the best heavyweight, from January 1958 to September 1962, when he finally kayoed Patterson. Peak Jimmy Young made everybody he faced look bad, between the Shavers draw in 1974 to the first Ocasio match in June, 1978. Tyrone Everett toyed with Escalera, and may have been the best P4P in the world at the time of his murder.


Funnily enough, it may surprise some people Hagler isn't rated in Ring's Top 10 from the August 1977 issue. Of course, he iced Monroe later that month but Willie wasn't ranked in the top 10 by that time. It was after the Colbert win that he was generally rated Top 2- after Valdes; until Rodrigo lost to Corro a second time, but that was November 1978. He was definitely avoided for a bit, but not as long as people make out.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Bob Foster.

[brooklyn1550]

Harry Wills

[Duodenum]

Funnily enough, it may surprise some people Hagler isn't rated in Ring's Top 10 from the August 1977 issue. Of course, he iced Monroe later that month but Willie wasn't ranked in the top 10 by that time. It was after the Colbert win that he was generally rated Top 2- after Valdes; until Rodrigo lost to Corro a second time, but that was November 1978. He was definitely avoided for a bit, but not as long as people make out.

I think most fans considered Hagler number one after the Seales annihilation. But after Marv drew with Antuofermo, he shouldn't have retained that distinction from the press, at least not until a successful challenge. Interestingly, Vito declared immediately after their draw that he'd rather fight Hagler in a rematch than Hugo Corro (RIP). Of course Vito didn't have to go looking for Hagler, unlike the cutie Corro. Vito ducked nobody. (Just check out the names on his record. Weston, Griffith, Dagge, Hope, Briscoe, Hart, Curto....not the sort of opposition a contender would normally inflate his resume with on the way up.)

[buzzsaw]

Pryor called ALL of them out and NONE answered! (Kenty, O’Grady, Watt, Mancini) and so he called out the big names heavier then him (Leonard and Hearns) and NONE of them answered either. He was looking for a big $ fight. And the big boys knew Aaron needed them, they didn't need him. At that time in boxing Pryor was a Beast!

[buzzsaw]

I think most fans considered Hagler number one after the Seales annihilation. But after Marv drew with Antuofermo, he shouldn't have retained that distinction from the press, at least not until a successful challenge. Interestingly, Vito declared immediately after their draw that he'd rather fight Hagler in a rematch than Hugo Corro (RIP). Of course Vito didn't have to go looking for Hagler, unlike the cutie Corro. Vito ducked nobody. (Just check out the names on his record. Weston, Griffith, Dagge, Hope, Briscoe, Hart, Curto....not the sort of opposition a contender would normally inflate his resume with on the way up.)
Vito vs Hagler I believe was the last time I ever saw the unwritten rule of "You have to knock out the Champ to be the Champ!" applied. Vito just kept coming, he was not going to give it away easily. What a heart in this guy.

[robert ungurean]

Holeman Williams
Jimmy Bivins
Pat Valentino

[Titan1]

Pryor also would have probably loved a chance to avenge his defeat to Howard Davis Jr. at the 1976 US Olympic boxing trials.

After Pedroza kayoed Pat Ford in far more impressive fashion than Sanchez decisioned him, he told Cosell that he was ready to take on Sal at any time. Because of Ford's acclaimed performance against Sanchez in his previous match (which many believed Pat won), the fact that Pedroza was defending at home, and Eusebio's awareness of ABC's viewing audience, he was especially outstanding in shutting out Ford. Several seconds after he went to his toes, with the Guyanan on the ropes, he thrilled the spectators by dropping Ford for the count with a bolo right. Just then, Pedroza made it appear that Sal was indeed the number two featherweight. A real shame no unification ever took place between them, or even a nontitle Zarate/Zamora type matchup. (Who knows for sure what that outcome would've been?)


In essence, Howard was scared of Aaron too?

[Bummy Davis]

Corrie Sanders in recent times, Ike Ibeabuchi (no one was rushing to fight him) Virchis (who wants his title)...Irish Joey Archer middle weight contender of the 60's who beat Hurricane Carter,Dick Tiger, Sugar ray Robinson,got a title fight vs Griffith and was robbed the first fight

[Duodenum]

Vito vs Hagler I believe was the last time I ever saw the unwritten rule of "You have to knock out the Champ to be the Champ!" applied. Vito just kept coming, he was not going to give it away easily. What a heart in this guy.

A rule broken in Vito's next defense against Minter. I was reading a newspaper account about the wild drunken melee that erupted in London when Hagler took the title. The sports columnist who wrote it was at ringside with Vito, who was providing color commentary on a telecast, and when the riot broke out, Vito said, "Let's get out of here!" Leading interference for his companions, he was confronted by a sotted hooligan with a broken bottle, and drilled him to the floor. (Unlike Tyson, Vito's hand didn't break either.) That granite mosquito may not be large enough to deter the threat of violence, but I wouldn't mind having him as my bodyguard!

If headgear had been mandatory equipment during Vito's career (I do not believe it should be required), so as to prevent bleeding from clashing heads, then Antuofermo may have been darned near unstoppable. (However, it sure looked to me as though Vito and Mauricio Aldana were both using their heads as weapons in the early going.) When Antuofermo and Hagler whacked craniums in their rematch, Vito sustained the laceration that would lead to the stoppage, but when it actually occurred, it was Marv, not Vito, who went reeling around the ring in pain and agony. Vito's noggin was as hard as a coconut.

Joan Antuofermo was a terrifically supportive wife for her husband's ring career. She understands boxing very well, and was never fazed by the sight of her man's blood in competition. Her enthusiatic endorsement of Vito's fistic pusuits made Joan uniquely noteworthy among wives of pugilists. Even today, she can be counted on to set the facts of her husband's exploits straight.

[Duodenum]

In essence, Howard was scared of Aaron too?

While I'm not specifically aware of Howard ducking Pryor, it seems a reasonable conclusion, given their amateur history. There's little question that The Hawk would have won Olympic gold if that trials decision went his way.

In his rematch with Arguello, Alexis had Aaron pinned on the ropes. As Pryor pushed Arguello down with his arms on Alexis's back, Arguello wailed away at Pryor's crotch with some low bombs. Pryor simply laughed it off while Arguello teed off on his groin. (The referee promptly separated them, and penalized Alexis for his flagrant and desperate fouling.) It looked as though Aaron had brass in his trunks. It's a good thing for Duran that he got Buchanan for the LW title, instead of Pryor. Aaron's nether region might have withstood Golota's attack when he rematched Alexis, for all we know.

Who would want to take on somebody unfazed by deliberate low blows from an established power puncher? It would have taken a defensive genious like Whitaker or Locche to decision Pryor when Aaron took out Arguello. (It's worth going to the IBHOF Induction Weekend, just to meet The Hawk, as most anybody who has already knows.)

[Duodenum]

Pryor called ALL of them out and NONE answered! (Kenty, O’Grady, Watt, Mancini) and so he called out the big names heavier then him (Leonard and Hearns) and NONE of them answered either. He was looking for a big $ fight. And the big boys knew Aaron needed them, they didn't need him. At that time in boxing Pryor was a Beast!

Mancini eventually did answer the call. During the broadcast of Leroy Haley's WBC Light Welterweight title defense rematch against Bruce Curry, Aaron and Ray were guest commentating. This was the month following Pryor's second defense against Arguello, and he was looking for a third big money superfight. Mancini would shortly face Bobby Chacon, but few really expected Chacon to pull another rabbit out of the hat against Boom-Boom.

It was actually a pretty dull and uninspired sales pitch between Mancini and Pryor, nothing in the way of entertaining banter. It seemed as though the Deuk Koo Kim tragedy had really sapped Mancini of his boyish exhuberance, while Pryor sounded hung-over from the post Arguello aftermath. When the two of them described for the viewing audience how exciting a Pryor-Mancini promotion would be, they sounded bored and dull, as amazing as that must come across. The match between Haley and Curry was a barnburner, yet they both commented on it with listless interest. (Cosell would have livened up the account of the action tremendously. I don't remember who the announcer was for Haley-Curry II, but he didn't do a very good job on this rousing performance.)

After that protracted display of apathy on the part of Pryor and Mancini, there was no way they could successfully sell the public on a contest between the two. After Michael Spinks kayoed Marvin Johnson, his WBC counterpart, Matthew Saad Muhammmad, was brought into the post-fight interview. As the camera was showing Johnson being revived, the first words heard out of Matt's mouth were, "You know, I knocked out Marvin Johnson twice!" Mike immediately fired back with, "And you almost got killed by him twice!" They instantly started howling back and forth at each other, but when the camera cut to the two of them yelling between themselves, Saad had his arm around Spinks, and the two were bantering with laughing faces. They didn't need to convince the public they hated each other, just demonstrate a playfully spirited and competitive difference of opinion on how they'd do against one another. (Saad Muhammad probably should have defended against Spinks right after he took out Conteh, before Mike became a totally lethal LH, except the money wouldn't have been as good. Looking back, I'm kind of relieved Matt didn't fight Spinks after Mike nearly decapitated Johnson. With his heart and lack of defense, Saad might have gotten killed.)

Between Mancini and Pryor, there was no spark of any kind, whatsoever, like there was between Spinks and Saad, or Duran and SRL in Montreal, or Chacon and Limon, no heat in the least. By that stage of their careers, the fire was mostly out.

[Vantage_West]

Corrie Sanders in recent times, Ike Ibeabuchi (no one was rushing to fight him) Virchis (who wants his title)...Irish Joey Archer middle weight contender of the 60's who beat Hurricane Carter,Dick Tiger, Sugar ray Robinson,got a title fight vs Griffith and was robbed the first fighti agree with every single one


but virchis:huh man the guy is so slow for a man his size he fights like valuev without the dominating size.
he was given trouble by the little known (and i feel underated) michael sprott. this isnt the makings of a great champion he is just undefeated thats all...ducked maybe but he isnt unbeatable and he doesny make anyone look bad.

[Vantage_West]

alot of people say ray leonard was one of the best. but never beat a
high level workrate fighter like aaron pryor.
he is known for his wins against don lalonde, roberto duran and thomas
hearns, but he not only ducked pryor, but he also ducked frank tate,
michael nunn, mark medal, robby simms, don lee, michael olajade, james
kitchen, and steve collins.

so yea i am in total belif he was ducked by the big names

[PowerPuncher]

Corrie Sanders in recent times, Ike Ibeabuchi (no one was rushing to fight him) Virchis (who wants his title)...Irish Joey Archer middle weight contender of the 60's who beat Hurricane Carter,Dick Tiger, Sugar ray Robinson,got a title fight vs Griffith and was robbed the first fight

Sanders wasn't ducked he didnt fight anyone to get a title shot

Ibeauchi - wasnt he locked up before he could be ducked?

Virchis got a gift against journeyman Sprott and lost a few fights ago

[Shake]

I'd have to go with Sven Ottke.

[la-califa]

James Scott, He virtually cleaned out the Light Heavyweight division & never got a shot at the title... Johnny Tapia, He had to almost beg Romero to fight him.

[C. M. Clay II]

I'd probably have to say Sam Langford.:good

[Ramon Rojo]

Jack Johnson

Harry Wills

Peter Jackson

[Duodenum]

James Scott, He virtually cleaned out the Light Heavyweight division & never got a shot at the title.
That was actually Scott's own fault. After Eddie Mustafa Muhammad dethroned Marvin Johnson, he was asked if he'd be willing to give the WBA ranked Scott a rematch. On camera, Eddie replied that he was more than willing. Upon viewing that response, Scott said, "Well, God bless him, but who I really want is Saad Muhammad, the hypocrite!" He should have grabbed the title shot offered to him by Eddie. If he'd won the rematch, then Scott may have been able to get Matt in a unification bout. As the WBC never ranked Scott, winning the WBA Title was his best opportunity, but he blew it away. Shortly afterwards, the WBA dropped Scott from their rankings.

[PowerPuncher]

1. Wills
2. Langford
3. Burley

[Sweet Science]

Hi all, I'm new here.

I would say Sam Langford was possibly the most avoidwed fighter.

[dmt]

Hi all, I'm new here.

I would say Sam Langford was possibly the most avoidwed fighter.:good

[Sweet Science]

To turn the question on its head, Just wondered who you guys think was the fighter who did the most ducking avoiding himself?

[jyuza]

Hey welcome.

That would be an interesting new thread. Go ahead (and post your top 10 so we can learn more about your knowledge and tastes)

[Sweet Science]

Thanks Jyuza.

How would I post a new thread?

Sorry not sure how to do this. Any help would be most appreciated.

[Duodenum]

To turn the question on its head, Just wondered who you guys think was the fighter who did the most ducking avoiding himself?
Check out Sean O'Grady's record. How could such a high profile American boxer (He was moonlighting as a color commentator on ESPN) have so many matches against such a small amount of world class competition? His biggest and most impressive win was against a sick Hilmer Kenty. Otherwise, he had serious problems with the few top opponents he faced. (Lopez, Watt, Ganigan, Ranzany, Verderosa.) Sean didn't retire young because he lost his ability to take a punch, he lost his ability to take a punch whenever he tried stepping up in class.

He'd reached a point in his career where he no longer had the luxury of being able to pad his record with tomato cans. (Concerning the Watt fight, before either boxer started bleeding, Watt was clearly dominating the contest, and would have won a lopsided decision if neither of them had suffered any cuts. Watt was losing ground on points when the butt occurred which eventually forced the referee to end the match, but he was still leading, nonetheless.)

[buzzsaw]

Holeman Williams
Jimmy Bivins
Pat Valentino

Dayton Ohio Hvwt Buddy Knox (102-38-5) fought both Valentino and Bivins within 4 months losing 10 rd D to both.

[Dempsey1238]

Machen, Folley when Patterson rein as champ.

[Minotauro]

Holman Williams was ducked for years should have had a title shot against Zale but never happened. Also Cocoa Kid was avoided as well he should have had a shot at the title but never got to fight the top white fighters.

[thunder06]

im not wearing any underwear.

[JohnThomas1]

Calzaghe.

Just look @ Hop / Taylor / Jones etc. Calzaghe got 'em running scared; that & the fact they're hoping he'll age overnight ala Mr.Jones did

What sort of money is he worth to those guys? I'm a bit behind in the present day boxing but i wonder if he is one of these excellent fighters that for whatever reason have failed to capture the publics full imagination (non exciting is an example for some) and can't command the money to make him an attractive match. McCallum was a great example.

[jc]

Langford and BJ Walcott are good choices.

Modern times has to be Winky (until recently) and Calzaghe (say something! go on say something! :fire :D ). I also think what Hatton is doing to Witter is disgusting and blatant.

[he grant]

Sam Langford
Harry Wills
Mike McCallum
Aaaron Pryor
Marvin Hagler
Peter Jackson

[SteveO]

Always heard Maxie Rosenbloom...but he fought almost 300 times.

I guess I heard it because Joe Louis never fought him.

[TBooze]

Always heard Maxie Rosenbloom...but he fought almost 300 times.

I guess I heard it because Joe Louis never fought him.

Many only got in the ring with Rosenbloom, when they knew what was going to happen in the fight, before it began....;)

[prime]

Cleveland Williams. Of the top-ranked fighters, only Sonny Liston had the guts to meet him in ring center. Poor Williams.

[PowerPuncher]

I'm going to say Roy JOnes :D

Eubank - turned it down
Dm - turned it down
Tyson - turned it down
Hopkins rematch - turned down
Steve Collins - turned down

:D

[SuzieQ49]

I love how no one mentions archie moore and lloyd marshall

[Sonny Carson]

After Pedroza kayoed Pat Ford in far more impressive fashion than Sanchez decisioned him, he told Cosell that he was ready to take on Sal at any time. Because of Ford's acclaimed performance against Sanchez in his previous match (which many believed Pat won), the fact that Pedroza was defending at home, and Eusebio's awareness of ABC's viewing audience, he was especially outstanding in shutting out Ford. Several seconds after he went to his toes, with the Guyanan on the ropes, he thrilled the spectators by dropping Ford for the count with a bolo right. Just then, Pedroza made it appear that Sal was indeed the number two featherweight. A real shame no unification ever took place between them, or even a nontitle Zarate/Zamora type matchup. (Who knows for sure what that outcome would've been?)
Ford definitely didn't win the fight against Sanchez. Sanchez hurt him numerous times at the end and ruined him for Pedroza. Pedroza didn't look that good again. He barely beat LaPorte and Rocky.

[heehoo]

Sam Langford, Harry Wills, Aaron Pryor, Barbados Joe Walcott, and James Jeffries are the guys thaat come to mind.