Pavlik vs Abraham

[rekcutnevets]

I know this isn't a Classic thread. This is just the only section of the forum where I value other poster's opinions.

After watching Abraham against Miranda tonight, and Pavlik against Lockett a couple of weeks ago, I am really intrigued by a Pavlik and Abraham match-up.

With his power and pressure, Pavlik is an almost guarantee for excitement. He is also willing to be hit. Lockett was landing some clean punches on Pavlik, but had little effect. I just watched Arthur Abraham fight a fight against Miranda, that was similar to the fight Lockett tried against Pavlik. Abraham was much more effective than Lockett was. I realize Abraham was in with someone Pavlik already outmuscled, but Miranda had a good chin. If Abraham hits well enough to get ko Miranda, I'm sure he can at least get Pavlik's attention.

I'm not saying I would pick Abraham to defeat Pavlik, because I wouldn't. I'm also not trying to start a prediction thread. I am just saying there is one more fight I want to see now, and I'm glad to see more and more match-ups are becoming possible around 160 and 168.

[radianttwilight]

This would indeed be a good matchup.

-My- question to the Classic forum (ha!) is the following -

Does anyone think that Pavlik may have "cracked" Miranda's chin? I know it's a common excuse, and I usually don't believe that it is possible...but after tonight, it sure seems so.

The hellacious amount of punishment Miranda has taken in previous bouts (up to and including his fight with Pavlik) just don't jive with how he just got KO'd early by some seemingly non-dangerous punches.

I don't think Abraham is that hard of a puncher, either. He can hit quite hard when he wants to, but he's not in the Pavlik department IMO and he certainly didn't seem to be throwing hard shots in round 4, tonight...

[rekcutnevets]

Originally posted by radianttwighlight
Does anyone think that Pavlik may have "cracked" Miranda's chin? I know it's a common excuse, and I usually don't believe that it is possible...but after tonight, it sure seems so.


I don't know how often a fighters ability to take punches is something physical or mental, but I definitely think it's possible. If you are more prone to concussions after receiving one, I don't know why you couldn't be more prone to being knocked out after being knocked out.

Look at all the punches David Izonritei took from David Tua before it looked like Tua broke his chin. David Izon was never again able to take that kind of punishment.

[Mantequilla]

Seen a lot of Abraham and not a fan of him at all.

He does have more one shot power than Pavlik however.That's his main advantage over him.

[john garfield]

If I was Pavlik's management, I'd jump on an Abraham fight while fans are hot-to-trot.

No way Kelly loses with Abraham's earmuffs and limited legs. Forget his heavy hands; the first time he backs to the ropes with earmuffs would be his last.

[enquirer]

Easy John g.
On a related topic,in an interview roy jones said that hagler would 'put the ear muffs' on when flurried upon whereas robinson would try to time a counter in between a fighters flurries? Is that true? I think its a sign of fistic genius and killer instinct to do this and it makes a fighter much more dangerous and harder to beat. It also may make a fighter less likely to be disturbed by a speedy puncher.

[JohnThomas1]

Easy John g.
On a related topic,in an interview roy jones said that hagler would 'put the ear muffs' on when flurried upon whereas robinson would try to time a counter in between a fighters flurries? Is that true? I think its a sign of fistic genius and killer instinct to do this and it makes a fighter much more dangerous and harder to beat. It also may make a fighter less likely to be disturbed by a speedy puncher.

Fantastic point.

[enquirer]

I think this is part of the reason i rate guys like duran much higher than hagler,duran could defend flurries while attacking,hagler couldnt (except a little for the hearns fight.) . I think also this is why ray caused him so much trouble with his speed,ray would flurry and hagler would just cover up and do nothing a lot of the time. Someone like duran fired back and made leonard miss,even though the montreal leonard was 3 times faster than the 87 leonard.
Prime tyson also was great at making guys miss and pay with counters,ergo spinks and williams.

[teeto]

This fight needs to happen, clear number 1 contender for the crown, think it will soon

[BOGART]

Pavlik-Abraham is the best fight to be made at middleweight now that Winky has vanished and I get the feeling he'll looked well past it if we ever see him again. As for Pavlik-Abraham, Pavlik should be the favorite. A lot of it will be due to Pavlik's workrate(and Abraham's lack of), better mobility, and reach. He's a better all round fighter than Abraham and would win a decision. Good fight though as Abraham is a tough, undefeated, prime contender.

[Mendoza]

I know this isn't a Classic thread. This is just the only section of the forum where I value other poster's opinions.

After watching Abraham against Miranda tonight, and Pavlik against Lockett a couple of weeks ago, I am really intrigued by a Pavlik and Abraham match-up.

With his power and pressure, Pavlik is an almost guarantee for excitement. He is also willing to be hit. Lockett was landing some clean punches on Pavlik, but had little effect. I just watched Arthur Abraham fight a fight against Miranda, that was similar to the fight Lockett tried against Pavlik. Abraham was much more effective than Lockett was. I realize Abraham was in with someone Pavlik already outmuscled, but Miranda had a good chin. If Abraham hits well enough to get ko Miranda, I'm sure he can at least get Pavlik's attention.

I'm not saying I would pick Abraham to defeat Pavlik, because I wouldn't. I'm also not trying to start a prediction thread. I am just saying there is one more fight I want to see now, and I'm glad to see more and more match-ups are becoming possible around 160 and 168.

It would be a great fight. Boxing needs it. Pavlik would need to adjust his game to defeat Abraham. Abraham hits a little harder, takes a good punch, and has that defense with countering ability that will get plenty of chances vs a very aggressive Pavlik.

I think Pavlik has too much machismo to adjust his game plan and pull off a technical less than fan friendly performance, so I would go with Abraham here via late round TKO in a see-saw type of match.

[lamont zero]

Arthur Abraham was never ever wobbled and he is the hardest puncher at middleweight. Pavlik is pretty good but he would get knocked out against AA,no doubt about it.
Abraham is a special one,that has the heart and will and power to break you. He is too much for Pavlik.

[lamont zero]

If you're looking at this fight and saying there's "no doubt about it" in either fighter's favor then you're being a drooling fanboy idiot. Anyway, Jermain Taylor had never been knocked down before either, but that didn't stop Pavlik from turning his lights out.

yeah,i am rooting fpr Abraham and i am sure he wins but you are right-anything is possible.
Abraham has got the power to knock out Pavlik and he has never been wobbled himself. Never. He is so strong. Even Pavlik,who is a tough dude,has been floored a few times.

I am looking forward to see AA and Kelly meet in the ring. Does anybody know what Pavlik said after the fight last night?

[ChrisPontius]

No way Kelly loses with Abraham's earmuffs and limited legs.

I wouldn't count on it. Abraham is very hard to hit clean once in his guard. He is also quite fast on his feet if he elects to do so, he just doesn't run all the time.



A few things to point out:

-Abraham has an iron chin, has never been down.

-Abraham seems to have the better one-punch power, whereas Pavlik has very heavy hands at a high workrate

-Abraham is very unlikely to win a decision because of his low activity

-Kelly's defence is solid, but far from impregnable. Part of that is because he takes a lot risks in trying to land his own counter shots; an exciting style to watch.

-Pavlik's chin, while solid, can certainly be cracked by the Armenian

-Kelly is 6'2" whereas Arthur is 5'10. This means that the American will probably have the edge when they are boxing safely. However, should they brawl, which is as good as given, usually the shorter, stockier guy has the edge. Especially if he has the better chin and somewhat better power, like here.

-Abraham never takes many jabs because he is extremely consistent with his guard. So, while he probably loses quite a few rounds, swelling, cuts and other damage may not be a problem as the fight goes by.



So, all in all this fight is very hard to call and both have their things going for them. I would say either Pavlik wins a decision or Abraham wins by knockout. I wouldn't put any money down on it, but i'd love to see the fight.