whos legacy is greater RJJ or Hopkins??

[Carlos Primera]

what do you guys think?

RJJ: titles at 4 weight division, ring champ at 175, beat toney, hopkins, mccallum, griffin, ruiz etc...

Hopkins: 20 title defenses, linear at 160/ 175, beat trinidad, dela hoya, wright, tarver, johnson, joppy etc...

[Zakman]

Hopkins. There really shouldn't be any question after this fight. And look how he has managed to fight at a high level at a more advanced age, while Jones has basically been a shaky-chinned shadow of his former self for the last several years.

[Carlos Primera]

Hopkins. There really shouldn't be any question after this fight. And look how he has managed to fight at a high level at a more advanced age, while Jones has basically been a shaky-chinned shadow of his former self for the last several years.
i had their legacies more or less equal before the fight, but hopkins legend certainly rises because of this win. zak, who do you think comes out the winner of a potential calzaghe-hopkins fight??

[Nico]

In my opinion, Roy Jones should have a better legacy and be regarded as the better fighter. But his two back to back knockout losses have assured him that his overall legacy will not be as good as Hopkins', even though as far as I'm concerned, it was towards the tail end of his career and shouldn't matter as much.

[Zakman]

i had their legacies more or less equal before the fight, but hopkins legend certainly rises, because of this win. zak, who do you think comes out the winner of a potential calzaghe-hopkins fight??

That's actually a tough call right now. Assuming Calzaghe beats Kessler by a wide margin as I expect him to, I'd favor Joe. However, if he looks less than stellar in that fight, or loses (which I highly doubt), then I'd favor Hopkins probably.

[kg0208]

Jones....Come on, beating a man jumping 2 weight classes when he was small as a MW to begin with doesn't give him much more credit, no matter how good Wright is.

BTW, Hopkins is NOT Lineal at 175...just Ring champ.

[sues2nd]

RJJ has Hopkins on his resume nuff said :D

So...McBride has Tyson on his resume....that rationale is ridiculous.

:patsch

Id have to give the nod to Hopkins now. He has more big names on it. He did it at a high level for a longer time....and stayed dominant throughout.

Also, unlike Roy, when his skills that made him a great fighter started to fade (power, output, etc.....) he totally reinvented himself and actually became better than what he was previously.

Plus, Roy still seems content to keep going...which leaves the door open for him to lose again....which will further drop him below Bernard.

[kg0208]

So...McBride has Tyson on his legacy....that rationale is ridiculous.

:patsch

Id have to give the nod to Hopkins now. He has more big names on it. He did it at a high level for a longer time....and stayed dominant throughout.

Also, unlike Roy, when his skills that made him a great fighter started to fade (power, output, etc.....) he totally reinvented himself and actually became better than what he was previously.

Plus, Roy still seems content to keep going...which leaves the door open for him to lose again....which will further drop him below Bernard.

All of Hopkins great wins are against naturally smaller men except Tarver. Hopkins also fought in an even weaker MW division than the LHW division Jones fought in. It's funny how no one ever mentions this.

[brooklyn1550]

Roy Jones, Jr.

[errsta]

Roy.

Scaled more weight classes. Beat a prime #1 P4P fighter. Fought more previous, current, and future champs. Most importantly: Beat hopkins.

[kg0208]

Nah, that isn´t true some of the people that B-Hop beat at mw counting as good wins on the resume of some fighters at a higher weight so his opposition couldn´t have been that bad. It wasn´t the best era but neither were the 70s or the 80s.

Like whom? Glen Johnson? That's about it....that MW era was very weak, and Hopkins missed all the great fighters that Jones supposedly ducked, even though Hopkins is never accused of the same thing even though it was the same era. Hopkins is judged by a different standard than Jones.

[kg0208]

in my mind.....hopkins.


depends on the person tho. i can see people placing rjj ahead of nard because they fought but it was close for some rounds jones was getting it handed to him....hopkins has itito, odlh, tarver (the legend killer lol), prime glen johnson, oh and winky wright.....

that is a Huge bag of wins

Over smaller men, and that has to be accounted for. Glen Johnson is an above average fighter who is only a name now because he beat a past his prime Jones. He has done nothing else besides this, losing to men that Jones beat easily.

When Hopkins fought Jones it was close and Jones was getting it handed to him in some rounds? What? It was 8 rounds to 4 and Jones was winning easily till he noticably hurt his hand.

[kg0208]

Vanderpool? You know, the difference between Jones and Hopkins is that Jones decided to move up. So he can be accused of ducking guys at these higher weights, rightfully or not. Hopkins decided to stay at mw so the only thing he can be accused is ducking mws. Jones was great. I don´t really think he ducked anybody - actually i think he would beat everybody he was accused of ducking - but he made the same mistake many other fighters today making too. He just went after money and not after glory.

No, Jones is on record and so is HBO that Jones moved up only AFTER being turned down by these great fighters he supposedly ducked. Eubank is on record as saying he refused to fight Jones because Jones would beat him. Benn turned down the fight after beating McClellan. Liles refused an offer as well...

Fact of the matter is Hopkins fought in a very weak MW era. It has always been considered weak, and 3 of his 4 big wins were over men smaller than he was, at least 2 by a signifigant amount.

[kg0208]

lol glen johnson is the king bud. have you even seen him in his prime? he was a lethal puncher....very explosive. bernard ended that. i think johnson was undefeated going into the fight.

I saw him in his prime. I HAVE the Hopkins-Johnson fight. He is no king. Why don't you point out all the great fighters that Johnson beat BEFORE his fight with Hopkins. Yah he was unbeaten...but he had beaten no one ranked in the top 10.

[Primadonna Kool]

Roy Jones, he beat the better fighters, and his achievements stand out in history, until the end of time.

[pjo479]

i think the answer is clear there are no arguments as to who has a better legacy . anyone who thinks jones has a better legacy is just saying it to be an asshole... jones is a pussy who likes to call alot of people out but never fight them .... i dont ever remember hopkins ducking anyone :good

[Marnoff]

Roy Jones, he beat the better fighters, and his achievements stand out in history, until the end of time.

Poetic.

[Marnoff]

always comes prepared...gameplan...

bernard can fight any fighter and come out on top

This is one of the big reasons I rank him highly.

[pjo479]

jones hopkins will never happen and sweet pea jones beat hopkins 13 yrs ago in a not so spectacular fight . jones gets brutally beat if he signs this fight . jones is a wash up:good

[Alo2006]

Well RJ will be known as the more exciting and better fighter indeed. While B-Hop will be known with the better resume.

[Marnoff]

:huh

Ya, that guy's post had a lot of empty points, but the last two were decent.

[Marnoff]

What is really sad, how some people starting overrating Bernard after that fight tremendously. Top10 atg, goat at 160-175? wtf? And some other people who see that jump on it and bash him. Both isn´t right.

First of all, I don't have him number one at Light Heavyweight and have never seen him at Super Middleweight. Secondly, I don't have him top ten. Third, I've felt he was a special and tremendous fighter before tonight, but this certainly adds to it.

[pjo479]

i personally would rather see jones retire before he winds up like his buddy g mac and that's no diss its just concern because if jones fights any young top fighter today and i mean ranked 1 or 2 or any belt holder he may just wind up knocked out for good... as far as hopkins he too should retire he has nothing left to prove and them fighting each other only results in a bhop win and fans saying jones is washed up .... there is a reason they never fought again because jpnes got destroyed 2 times by tarver and johnson the same 2 men hopkins wrecked:good

[paulfv]

Hopkins. There really shouldn't be any question after this fight. And look how he has managed to fight at a high level at a more advanced age, while Jones has basically been a shaky-chinned shadow of his former self for the last several years.

Agreed. Hopkins doesn't have two one-punch KO defeats on his record, either.

Jones is the better athlete, Hopkins the better fighter, at least in terms of legacy

[sues2nd]

All of Hopkins great wins are against naturally smaller men except Tarver. Hopkins also fought in an even weaker MW division than the LHW division Jones fought in. It's funny how no one ever mentions this.

kg, we all know I love Roy....but if we are talking legacy, we have to look at the WHOLE career. Not just the good times.

Roy held on too long....he isnt the same fighter he once was and that will be part of what he will leave behind.

Hop on the other hand stayed dominant and at the top of the game until the end. This has to be accounted for.

[Sister Sledge]

Jones will always be remembered as a superior athlete because that is what he was. A superior athlete with great reflexes and power that came from blinding speed. He also had vast amatuer experience. Even though Jones and B-Hop had almost the same amount of pro fights coming in, Jones had a lot more experience, so he was more polished. B-Hop doesn't even fight the same way that he did back then. He may be more cautous, but his style is much more effective. Jones style has never changed. He's never learned how to use the jab on a consistant basis to control a fight. He's never learned to hold when he needs a break. He still tries to outspeed his opponents. He's the same fighter he was when he started his career and has never learned to adjust to his declining hand speed and stamina. Unfortunately, RJJ is small for a Light Heavy, so without the hand and foot speed, Roy won't be as effective as he was before. B-Hop never really relied on speed. He was always dirty, but he has also become wiley, and because he has fought so many different styles of fighter, he has more experience than Jones. Just imagine if these guys had fought in the late 70's and early 80's. There were guys like Victor Galindez, Saad Muhamed, Spinks, Marvin Johnson, Yacqui Lopez, Dwight Braxton. I think a fighter like Hopkins would have done better than Jones in this era because he was the better overall fighter.

[fightking12]

roy jones:bbb

[TheGreat]

Jones will always be remembered as a superior athlete because that is what he was. A superior athlete with great reflexes and power that came from blinding speed. He also had vast amatuer experience. Even though Jones and B-Hop had almost the same amount of pro fights coming in, Jones had a lot more experience, so he was more polished. B-Hop doesn't even fight the same way that he did back then. He may be more cautous, but his style is much more effective. Jones style has never changed. He's never learned how to use the jab on a consistant basis to control a fight. He's never learned to hold when he needs a break. He still tries to outspeed his opponents. He's the same fighter he was when he started his career and has never learned to adjust to his declining hand speed and stamina. Unfortunately, RJJ is small for a Light Heavy, so without the hand and foot speed, Roy won't be as effective as he was before. B-Hop never really relied on speed. He was always dirty, but he has also become wiley, and because he has fought so many different styles of fighter, he has more experience than Jones. Just imagine if these guys had fought in the late 70's and early 80's. There were guys like Victor Galindez, Saad Muhamed, Spinks, Marvin Johnson, Yacqui Lopez, Dwight Braxton. I think a fighter like Hopkins would have done better than Jones in this era because he was the better overall fighter.

Pure BS RJJ would have never had the career he had if he wasn't as skilled as he was he would have turned out like Judah instead who is really great athlete but not a Great fighter but still good. Father Time catches him so now all of sudden he wasn't that good, man you people are something else.

[Asterion]

Hopkins or Jones?


Veeeery close. Right now, I think Jones is greater by a hair. Give Bernard one more good win and he'll pass Jones in achievements. However, Jones apparently looked good in his last fight and who knows what will happen to him in the future. But yeah, right now I think Jones is greater than Hopkins.

[Axe]

After tonight it is very, very close. Bernard has narrowed the gap dramatically. Right now Ive got Roy ahead by a little, but another big win by Hopkins (against a Zsolt erdei/Chad Dawson type fighter) would put him ahead.

Don't know if Nard his it in him anymore, though. He really looked old tonight.

And btw Hopkins is not linear champ at 175, just like Jones never was.

[Sister Sledge]

Pure BS RJJ would have never had the career he had if he wasn't as skilled as he was he would have turned out like Judah instead who is really great athlete but not a Great fighter but still good. Father Time catches him so now all of sudden he wasn't that good, man you people are something else.

It not BS. Look at Jones' record and the people he fought. Most of the were one dimensional no hopers. He rarely fought guys who could beat him and you know that. I never said he wasn't a skilled fighter. I just said that he never became a ring general. He rarely fought guys who could box or crowd him, so he has a hard time dealing with these type of guys now that his skills are eroding. Father Time has also caught up with B-Hop, but he is a great fighter who knows how to fight and make up for his diminishing skills with craftiness. Jones can't do that because he is not a crafty fighter.
Also, Judah has fought the best at his weight class and has shown the hear of a lion, so you can't compare him and Jones.

[the_what]

Roy Jones still.

[TheGreat]

It not BS. Look at Jones' record and the people he fought. Most of the were one dimensional no hopers. He rarely fought guys who could beat him and you know that. I never said he wasn't a skilled fighter. I just said that he never became a ring general. He rarely fought guys who could box or crowd him, so he has a hard time dealing with these type of guys now that his skills are eroding. Father Time has also caught up with B-Hop, but he is a great fighter who knows how to fight and make up for his diminishing skills with craftiness. Jones can't do that because he is not a crafty fighter.
Also, Judah has fought the best at his weight class and has shown the hear of a lion, so you can't compare him and Jones.

Here we go with the "Roy only fought bums" BS so I Guess Hill, Tarver, Johnson, Hopkins, Toney, Panzienza, McCallum, Griffin, Hall, Tarver, Gonzales, Woods, and Ruiz and all the the ranked top 10 fighters he beat were all bums and no hopers, what a load of Crap.

[kg0208]

Right but still HE decided to go upstairs. He still could have stayed at mw fighting some other guys. It was his decision and he is getting judged by it. I never said he ducked anyone.



I never said Hopkins fought in a good era, it was average but not worse, if we count actual mws not guys moving up, than the 70s or the 80s. Average. He dominated it for 10 years. Longevity. Consistency. Should count for something.
I don´t want to bash Jones, i try to be objective.

Why are you so hard on Bernard? The better he looks, the better he looks on Roy´s resume ;)

I am not being hard on Bernard. I am putting him in perspective of what he has ACTUALLY done, just as many of us are forced to do with any great fighter who gets immediately overrated on this board when he wins. Jones himself gets overrated and we have to put him in perspective, like when he is called the greatest LHW of all time, when he is just inside the top 10 on most people's lists.

Being objective means being objective. Bernard was no more or less dominant than Jones was over his weak LHW era as well. And yes, Jones moved up because the only challenges left at 160 and 168 were not looking to fight him. Hopkins stayed down instead of looking to do the same. If anyone is going to be penalized in that equation, it will be Hopkins, not Jones...

[kg0208]

thats not the point...we are talking about legacy....i already mentioned i dont give a fuck if ppl put roy higher than b-hop. i put b-hop above roy because:

started fighting in jail...bigtime fighter
worked his way up the ranks...unnoticed
went againstr all odds and beat some great fightters
at the end of his career hopkins will be more satisfied

also...
never been knocked down
never been beaten by a southpaw
always comes prepared...gameplan...

bernard can fight any fighter and come out on top

Half of what you said you just made up.

Hopkins had an amateur career prior to jail....99 fights I believe.

Went against all odds? Against whom? He lost his first fight at 175, moved down to 160, fought the same average fighters for years and got big name recognition off of beating Trinidad, an ATG who was not a great fighter at that weight class.

He HAS been KD, 2 times I believe.
Who cares if he has never been beaten by a southpaw.
And I assume most great fighters come with gameplans. When they fight other great fighters, one of them has to lose.
And he can't fight ANY fighter and come out on top...or are we ignoring that Jones beat him and Taylor beat him....2x no matter how debatable.

[TheGreat]

Longevity. Consistency. Should count for something.
I don´t want to bash Jones, i try to be objective.

;)

RJJ was on top for over 10 years or did you forget?

[Sister Sledge]

Here we go with the "Roy only fought bums" BS so I Guess Hill, Tarver, Johnson, Hopkins, Toney, Panzienza, McCallum, Griffin, Hall, Tarver, Gonzales, Woods, and Ruiz and all the the ranked top 10 fighters he beat were all bums and no hopers, what a load of Crap.

I never said RJJ fought bums, I said he fought guys he could beat. But I can tell you that Pazienza was never an elite fighter, Griffin was never expected to win, Tarver was always an afterthought. Hall and Gonzales are one dimensional. We all know about Ruiz. Woods just wasn't ready at the time, just like Hopkins wasn't.

If I saw fighters like Steve Collins, Benn, Eubank, McClellan, or an in-his-prime McCallum, then RJJ would have an unquestioned legacy.

Jones wouldn't fight guys like Michael Nunn or even Franky Liles because they were tall and good boxers.

Man, why don't you just admit that Jones ducked a lot of fighters becasue he wanted to handpick a bunch of no hope ham-n-eggers like Rich Hall and old Otis Grant.

[TheGreat]

I never said RJJ fought bums, I said he fought guys he could beat. But I can tell you that Pazienza was never an elite fighter, Griffin was never expected to win, Tarver was always an afterthought. Hall and Gonzales are one dimensional. We all know about Ruiz. Woods just wasn't ready at the time, just like Hopkins wasn't.

If I saw fighters like Steve Collins, Benn, Eubank, McClellan, or an in-his-prime McCallum, then RJJ would have an unquestioned legacy.

Jones wouldn't fight guys like Michael Nunn or even Franky Liles because they were tall and good boxers.

Man, why don't you just admit that Jones ducked a lot of fighters becasue he wanted to handpick a bunch of no hope ham-n-eggers like Rich Hall and old Otis Grant.

Because what you are spewing is pure and total BS First of all RJJ beat a prime James Toney who was undefeated with 44 wins and was the P4P king and I am sure he may have been the favored to win secondly Liles and Nunn were no better than Griffen or some of the contenders RJJ beat and both had already got thier asses handed to them and KTFO by Toney who was completely outclassed against RJJ so why would he fear them when he destroyed thier daddy? You say Bhops wasn't ready but that is nothing but a lame excuse as he was older and had more pro fights as for Woods he was also ready but RJJ was just to good and stopped him, you're very biased and seem to overate what Bhops does while completely disregarding and underrating what Roy did.