Maxim W 8 Patterson

[Imira]

After watching this one a few more times, I am changing my original argument.

Patterson lost this one clearly.

It seems close at first glance, but, in my opinion, Maxim controlled the tempo for the majority of the four rounds by landing a few accurate shots and smothering Patterson's offense. Patterson had his moments, but it was really only in quick spurts in the middle of each round.

Patterson also arguably lost his first fight against Dick Wagner, but that's a story for another thread...:bbb

So I've changed my mind on this one. Sue me...

[OLD FOGEY]

After watching this one a few more times, I am changing my original argument.

Patterson lost this one clearly.

It seems close at first glance, but, in my opinion, Maxim controlled the tempo for the majority of the four rounds by landing a few accurate shots and smothering Patterson's offense. Patterson had his moments, but it was really only in quick spurts in the middle of each round.

Patterson also arguably lost his first fight against Dick Wagner, but that's a story for another thread...:bbb

So I've changed my mind on this one. Sue me...

That is my take on it. Maxim kept running up points with his pitty-pat
offense. Patterson seemed confused. It was the old pro against
the great, but still raw, young talent, and savvy won. I also thought
Maxim made Patterson miss a great deal.

[Imira]

That is my take on it. Maxim kept running up points with his pitty-pat
offense.

Some of Maxim's right hands landed with some smack. Particularly at the beginning of each round.

Patterson seemed confused. It was the old pro against
the great, but still raw, young talent, and savvy won. I also thought
Maxim made Patterson miss a great deal.

Good point. Patterson had trouble landing his right hands from the outside. He also seemed to quit using his jab in rounds 6 and 8.

Off the subject, what did you think of Patterson v Wagner I?

[OLD FOGEY]

Some of Maxim's right hands landed with some smack. Particularly at the beginning of each round.



Good point. Patterson had trouble landing his right hands from the outside. He also seemed to quit using his jab in rounds 6 and 8.

Off the subject, what did you think of Patterson v Wagner I?

That one I have not seen. This is the first time I have heard it
questioned, but almost every champion has these close decision
skeletons in their closets.

[john garfield]

After watching this one a few more times, I am changing my original argument.

Patterson lost this one clearly.

It seems close at first glance, but, in my opinion, Maxim controlled the tempo for the majority of the four rounds by landing a few accurate shots and smothering Patterson's offense. Patterson had his moments, but it was really only in quick spurts in the middle of each round.

Patterson also arguably lost his first fight against Dick Wagner, but that's a story for another thread...:bbb

So I've changed my mind on this one. Sue me...

You're dead right, Imira. I was ringside at Eastern Parkway Arena for the Maxim fight. He tattoed Patterson with jabs all night -- kept beating him to the punch. He was dull as hell but he had a tight defense and deserved the nod.

Also, I agree with you about the Wagner fight. He was supposed to be a walkover for Floyd in his build-up, but Wagner was very busy and affective.

[Sonny's jab]

After watching this one a few more times, I am changing my original argument.

Patterson lost this one clearly.

It seems close at first glance, but, in my opinion, Maxim controlled the tempo for the majority of the four rounds by landing a few accurate shots and smothering Patterson's offense. Patterson had his moments, but it was really only in quick spurts in the middle of each round.

Patterson also arguably lost his first fight against Dick Wagner, but that's a story for another thread...:bbb

So I've changed my mind on this one. Sue me...

If it took you a few viewings to come up with that verdict, then I'd say there's nothing "clear" about it.

[OLD FOGEY]

After watching this one a few more times, I am changing my original argument.

Patterson lost this one clearly.

It seems close at first glance, but, in my opinion, Maxim controlled the tempo for the majority of the four rounds by landing a few accurate shots and smothering Patterson's offense. Patterson had his moments, but it was really only in quick spurts in the middle of each round.

Patterson also arguably lost his first fight against Dick Wagner, but that's a story for another thread...:bbb

So I've changed my mind on this one. Sue me...

I'm bumping this thread because of the John Garfield quote.

[achillesthegreat]

I've seen about ten minutes of it and it looks to me like Patterson won.

[Marciano Frazier]

Interesting input, but I wonder, what do you guys make of all the sportswriters who insisted Patterson had won?

[john garfield]

Interesting input, but I wonder, what do you guys make of all the sportswriters who insisted Patterson had won?

You have to put it in perspective, MF. Floyd was a comet on the boxing horizon when the game was still front page in N.Y. He was gonna inherit Robinson's mantle. The sportswriters were beating the drum the loudest.

They were more cheerleaders than scribes, talking about how amazing he was before the fight. The sat right near me at ringside.

They were beguiled by Floyd's sporatic, flashy combinations and handspeed, not Maxim's bell-to-bell jabs for the entire fight.

I suspect their copy was colored by wishful thinking.

[OLD FOGEY]

Interesting input, but I wonder, what do you guys make of all the sportswriters who insisted Patterson had won?

Well, did they? That is the first question I would ask. I remember reading a biography of Patterson in the early sixties and no big deal was made of Patterson being jobbed in this decision. I don't remember the author quoting unanimous press row opinion.
There are many Patterson fans. They are few Maxim fans. A mistatement of a Patterson consensus would be repeated innocently by fans over and over.
I would like to know first if it is definitely true that all the press thought Patterson won.
What I do know is that on the TV tape, neither the announcer nor analyst Tommy Loughran express any surprise at the Maxim victory. They merely comment that Maxim was much too savvy and it had been a good learning experience for Patterson.

[achillesthegreat]

boxrec.com says...

~ referee: Ruby Goldstein 3-4 | judge: Young Otto 1-7 | judge: Joe Eppy 3-5 ~
All 11 sportswrtiters at ringside scored for Patterson though.

[jowcol]

The bottom line is this:
Not a bad effort from a green barely 19 year old kid up against a multi-world champ slick veteran and to have the bout still being debated today as to who won speaks volumns for the young Patterson's talent.
I think Floyd fought about three weeks or so later and continued mowing people down on his way to the top...

[Mendoza]

From the footage I’ve seen, Patterson had the better of the action. Scoring in boxing is subjective. If Maxim landed more punches with often fired, but not too damaging jab, scoring preferences can go either way.

I prefer a professional scoring system that says the fighter who did more damage usually wins the round. However some judges like to score fights more like amateur boxing where the guy who threw and landed more punches earns “ points “.

The happy medium in a fight where one does more damage and captures the dramatic moments vs the other who threw and landed more punches is: Ring general ship ( who controlled the action ), and defense. Perhaps a draw would have been best in this 8 round affair.

[OLD FOGEY]

boxrec.com says...

~ referee: Ruby Goldstein 3-4 | judge: Young Otto 1-7 | judge: Joe Eppy 3-5 ~
All 11 sportswrtiters at ringside scored for Patterson though.

And Boxrec is the source that thinks the Louis-Davis exhibition of 1944 was a title fight. They make mistakes and some are big ones. I would like to see original research.

Either way, three competent officials, and analyst Loughran, did not see it that way. John Garfield may have answered the question. The press was rooting for Patterson, not surprising as he was the story. Maxim was a slightly over the hill veteran with no personal charisma and a style as exciting as watching paint dry.

[OLD FOGEY]

From the footage I’ve seen, Patterson had the better of the action. Scoring in boxing is subjective. If Maxim landed more punches with often fired, but not too damaging jab, scoring preferences can go either way.

I prefer a professional scoring system that says the fighter who did more damage usually wins the round. However some judges like to score fights more like amateur boxing where the guy who threw and landed more punches earns “ points “.

The happy medium in a fight where one does more damage and captures the dramatic moments vs the other who threw and landed more punches is: Ring general ship ( who controlled the action ), and defense. Perhaps a draw would have been best in this 8 round affair.

I have watched this fight several times and one problem is Patterson misses a lot. Maxim made you do that. So I don't know how "punishing" his attack was in this fight.

I agree that this was not a bad performance by Patterson. He was a green kid of nineteen taking on a savvy veteran who had fought all the top men and beaten such as Robinson, Walcott, Bivins, Satterfield, Foxworth, etc.

[Legend X]

I don't think this fight was any sort of robbery either.
Yes, it was controversial. The NY press really got behind a young Patterson.

From the film, it looks like Maxim deserved it to me, but it was close enough to go the other way, I guess.

[lufcrazy]

I scored it for patterson.

Infact I scored a lot of his latter losses for him as well.

I think he beat everyone he fought apart from ali and liston.

[red cobra]

I scored it for patterson.

Infact I scored a lot of his latter losses for him as well.

I think he beat everyone he fought apart from ali and liston.
I certainly think he beat Quarry twice, as well as Ellis. i'm sure of it.

[lufcrazy]

I certainly think he beat Quarry twice, as well as Ellis. i'm sure of it.

I agree.

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Only watched the incomplete footage.....with 10 minutes or something, so I can´t say nothing about the decision properly......but it seems like Patterson was getting the better of it.....
By the way, Maxim is so underrated......his style was very weird, but was very effective, and this is always an interesting combination :yep:

[john garfield]

After watching this one a few more times, I am changing my original argument.

Patterson lost this one clearly.

It seems close at first glance, but, in my opinion, Maxim controlled the tempo for the majority of the four rounds by landing a few accurate shots and smothering Patterson's offense. Patterson had his moments, but it was really only in quick spurts in the middle of each round.

Patterson also arguably lost his first fight against Dick Wagner, but that's a story for another thread...:bbb

So I've changed my mind on this one. Sue me...

I was ringside at Eastern Parkway Arena for the Maxim fight, I. Saw it exactly as you did