Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

[Manassa]

At his lightweight best. Duran? Williams? Carter? Angott?

:think

[Manassa]

The Ghetto Wizard.

I'm not so sure. I'd call it 50/50 - Ortiz could deal with boxers nicely, but Leonard was no boxer. He was Benny Leonard, a man with a style all his own.

[Nemesis]

Floyd Mayweather Jnr

[robert ungurean]

Williams
Duran
Buchanan
Arguello
Chavez

[Manassa]

Williams
Duran
Buchanan
Arguello
Chavez

Williams and Duran are 50/50 for me. Buchanan, no, as much as I think he's excellent, he wouldn't beat Ortiz. Maybe one out of three fights, but not a peak Ortiz. Ortiz was just plain better than Chavez, and Arguello would be looking at a superior technician to himself, and one that wouldn't wilt under his punches.

[Street Lethal]

Duran, Chavez, Whitaker, Armstrong. That's about it. Ortiz was a truly great fighter!

[pryorgatti]

Whitaker, Duran, Armstrong, B.Leonard, Shane Mosley

[Manassa]

Don't know why people are saying Chavez. Could someone explain further?

[Dempsey1238]

Barney Ross.

[Drew101]

Chavez has a very legitimate shot of winning against Ortiz. He had the skill necessary to hang with Ortiz on the outside, and I think he'd win in the trenches.

Others who have legitimate shots are...

Armstrong
Williams/Arguello
Mosley
Mayweather Jr.
Duran
Benny Leonard

[mcvey]

At his lightweight best. Duran? Williams? Carter? Angott?

:think
Who is in Carter,s resume to make you think he could beat Ortiz,apart from a severely weight drained Williams?

[Manassa]

He was better than you think. First Buchanan, now Ortiz? I have little doubts that he beats Buchanan. Ortiz could be a bit harder though. I just feel that Chavez would be able to withstand all he took and Ortiz wasn't really a big mover so Chavez would be able to get to him easier. Chavez outdoes him on the inside just like he outdoes Buchanan.

Chavez was a fine fighter, and I fully appreciate his abilities. I'd pick him over many a lightweight, but I'm confident that the historically underrated Buchanan would beat him (narrowly).

Ortiz wasn't a mover, but could move when he had to; he was all about economy. Ortiz is actually one of the most well rounded boxers I've ever seen fight, along with the likes of Roberto Duran, Wilfredo Gomez, Ray Robinson and Marvin Hagler. He punched a lot like Joe Louis actually, but had all the aura of Carlos Monzon. Ortiz would be using his top jab to offset Chavez while subtly shifting and edging backwards and setting up the right hands. Ortiz might even find himself pressing the action at some point in the fight; he was terribly strong and a big lightweight himself. It wouldn't be easy, nobody beats Chavez easily, but I would expect a decision of around 9-6 to sway in Ortiz' favour.

[Manassa]

Who is in Carter,s resume to make you think he could beat Ortiz,apart from a severely weight drained Williams?

I didn't say Carter could beat Ortiz.

[Manassa]

I wouldn't give anyone more than a 55% chance to beat Ortiz, and even those are few and far between. Ortiz is one of the fighters where I can't imagine how he would lose, what method he would succumb to, because he was so good all over.

[mcvey]

I wouldn't give anyone more than a 55% chance to beat Ortiz, and even those are few and far between. Ortiz is one of the fighters where I can't imagine how he would lose, what method he would succumb to, because he was so good all over.
Angott could give him problems he beat some fine fighters,Lou Ambers was a tough guy,the Lightweight division is the richest in talent by far ,imo so on any given night A might beat B,off the point a bit ,Ive never really understood the Angott defeat of Williams,and given some of the people behind Ike it makes me wonder ,I havent seen the fight but apparently Angott hurt Ike to the body repeatedly before he stopped him.

[Sam Dixon]

Ive never really understood the Angott defeat of Williams,and given some of the people behind Ike it makes me wonder ,I havent seen the fight but apparently Angott hurt Ike to the body repeatedly before he stopped him.

Whether it was originally caused by an Angott punch or not, I don't know, but Ike Williams was hospitalized after that fight and x-rays revealed that he had torn abdomen muscles on the left side of his body, which apparently was a side that Williams' was said to have been favouring ever since the first round of the fight, and from then on after until the ref finally stopped it.

Angott was also said to have targetted the injured spot on Williams all throughout the fight after originally picking up on Ike's favouring of it, like you alluded to.

[mcvey]

Whether it was originally caused by an Angott punch or not, I don't know, but Ike Williams was hospitalized after that fight and x-rays revealed that he had torn abdomen muscles on the left side of his body, which apparently was a side that Williams' was said to have been favouring ever since the first round of the fight, and from then on after until the ref finally stopped it.

Angott was also said to have targetted the injured spot on Williams all throughout the fight after originally picking up on Ike's favouring of it, like you alluded to.
Thanks for the insight,thats what I read too,it just makes me a little curious ,as it was a far from typical performance from Angott,perhapshe knew Ike was carrying an injury into the fight,either that or he noticed the reaction from Williams when he landed his first big hook to the body.

[Stonehands89]

I can't see how Duran-Ortiz would be 50/50. I just don't see Ortiz posing problems for Duran. I suspect that Duran would have an easier time than you are allowing, Manassa... although Ortiz was in my opinion, among the physically strongest of the LWs, his relatively static style would look mechanical and ineffective against Duran.

Ross was highly skilled and was an innovator himself and very durable. I'd favor him and Leonard against Ortiz as well by a slim margin. Loi obviously. Laguna 1/3.

I'd take Ortiz over Chavez, Buchanan, Williams, and Arguello... based on his strength on the inside and well-rounded level of skill. I'm not sure about Armstrong and Whitaker.

Ortiz was a great fighter -solid, well-schooled, deliberate. He was heavy-handed and could stop you early or late. I believe that other great LWs with comparable skill, and a style that was more dynamic and speed-based could beat him.