It's been a pleasure following Hopkins' career.

[Amsterdam]

And personally, I've never found him boring, but technically masterful. We've had the oppurtunity to experience a true modern ATG go through the motions and continue to have success late in his career against very highly rated fighters, one a bit over his optimum weight, but a top 3 P4P fighter no less.

History is going to be good to Hopkins...

When rating him, we have to take into consideration what 15 rounders would have given an amazing technition like Bernard, and then compare them to close 15 round fights that top rated legends, such as Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler had and what effect they put on the result. The closest thing that comes to mind for me on what Hagler's resume would be like if they banned 15 rounders in the 70's instead of the 80's is that Duran would have won a close decision over Marvin, where Marvin needed the extra 3 rounds to seal the deal on a fight that was his by 2 points on most people's cards...

So let's take that and then take what Hopkins would have with 15 rounders and add it in to what he already has in the books:

- A tko over Wright last night would have occured in round 14 or so.

- A definite finishing off of Jermain Taylor first time around, leaving no need for the fraudulent scorecards or the rematch.

- A finishing off of Joppy.

- A finishing off of Eastman at about 14.

- Already has a KO9 and TKO12 over Trinidad(undefeated) and DLH respectively.

- Would have TKO'd Tarver 13 or 14.

- Would have a clear win first time around over that Mercado guy, leaving no draw on his record.

- Already is the only guy to stop Johnson, but under a 15 round fight, TKO11 looks much more definitive.


If this isn't comparable to the other top 15 ATG's, then I don't know what is, because we have to take the era/era comparison into context.

His resume is highly underrated, but with time he will be rated where he should, perhaps he even gets one more really significant win before retiring.

[brooklyn1550]

Good post

[TheGreatest-915]

Got to love B-Hop Great Post

[the_churn]

Absolutely true. B-Hop has always been a slow starter. Three extra rounds would have made all the difference in the world.

[ChampionsForever]

Eastman and Wright could have gone on for 20 rounds and not have been stopped in my opinion, Eastman has an iron chin and Hopkins never hurt him once and he wasnt cut or anything:huh other than a wider margin in point I dont think extra rounds would have made a difference. And Wright although he was shaken in the last round I think he's expierience and defense would have seen him go the distance aswell, he wouldnt have made so many mistakes in the 12 trying to secure it if it was a 15 rounder.

[Jose FM]

And personally, I've never found him boring, but technically masterful. We've had the oppurtunity to experience a true modern ATG go through the motions and continue to have success late in his career against very highly rated fighters, one a bit over his optimum weight, but a top 3 P4P fighter no less.

History is going to be good to Hopkins...

When rating him, we have to take into consideration what 15 rounders would have given an amazing technition like Bernard, and then compare them to close 15 round fights that top rated legends, such as Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler had and what effect they put on the result. The closest thing that comes to mind for me on what Hagler's resume would be like if they banned 15 rounders in the 70's instead of the 80's is that Duran would have won a close decision over Marvin, where Marvin needed the extra 3 rounds to seal the deal on a fight that was his by 2 points on most people's cards...

So let's take that and then take what Hopkins would have with 15 rounders and add it in to what he already has in the books:

- A tko over Wright last night would have occured in round 14 or so.

- A definite finishing off of Jermain Taylor first time around, leaving no need for the fraudulent scorecards or the rematch.

- A finishing off of Joppy.

- A finishing off of Eastman at about 14.

- Already has a KO9 and TKO12 over Trinidad(undefeated) and DLH respectively.

- Would have TKO'd Tarver 13 or 14.

- Would have a clear win first time around over that Mercado guy, leaving no draw on his record.

- Already is the only guy to stop Johnson, but under a 15 round fight, TKO11 looks much more definitive.


If this isn't comparable to the other top 15 ATG's, then I don't know what is, because we have to take the era/era comparison into context.

His resume is highly underrated, but with time he will be rated where he should, perhaps he even gets one more really significant win before retiring.
That maybe true, but his career might have also been shorter. Jones would have probably KO'd him also.

[Amsterdam]

Eastman and Wright could have gone on for 20 rounds and not have been stopped in my opinion, Eastman has an iron chin and Hopkins never hurt him once and he wasnt cut or anything:huh other than a wider margin in point I dont think extra rounds would have made a difference. And Wright although he was shaken in the last round I think he's expierience and defense would have seen him go the distance aswell, he wouldnt have made so many mistakes in the 12 trying to secure it if it was a 15 rounder.

Wright was dead tired mate, Hopkins was landing some good shots in the last couple of rounds and that would have continued, those extra rounds make a world of difference and Hops would have gotten a TKO.

Eastman was eating bombs from round 8 to 12, give it a couple more, I could see that one being stopped, despite the fact that I agree with you that he has a great chin. Both guys no KOed, they both have great chins, but TKO'd, "stopped", taken too much and would be too whipped to continue.

However, Taylor maybe would have been KOed.

[ChampionsForever]

Wright was dead tired mate, Hopkins was landing some good shots in the last couple of rounds and that would have continued, those extra rounds make a world of difference and Hops would have gotten a TKO.

Eastman was eating bombs from round 8 to 12, give it a couple more, I could see that one being stopped, despite the fact that I agree with you that he has a great chin. Both guys no KOed, they both have great chins, but TKO'd, "stopped", taken too much and would be too whipped to continue.

However, Taylor maybe would have been KOed.

Well my opinion is my own and I wont disagree about Taylor, Eastman and Wright certainly wouldn't have benifited from 3 extra rounds and Hopkins does come on late in the fight. I agree its been a pleasure watching hes career (hes twilight years for me) hes a modern great and althought I was so glad when Taylor beat him, ive grown to respect hes skills and legacy as he has fought on.

[PH|LLA]

I liked the beginning of the post. Hopkins is a legend and his career has been amazing, and i've also never found him boring.

Apart from that you say alot of things that are simply wrong but still i like where your heart is at.

[Amsterdam]

I liked the beginning of the post. Hopkins is a legend and his career has been amazing, and i've also never found him boring.

Apart from that you say alot of things that are simply wrong but still i like where your heart is at.

What did I post that was not on target?

[Olander]

Good post, Amsterdam. Sometimes I get tired of Hopkins' antics, like at the weigh-in recently, but there is no denying the man's talent.

[C Money]

Many under appreciate Hopkins career, much of that was due IMO to the loss to Jones early on and RJJ Syndrome afterwrads with the fans and media.

I've always admired, respected, and supported B-Hop, the only blemishes in the last 12 years are Taylor who truly did outpoint/out box Hop's.

ATG career, which is likely to be punctuated with at least one more big fight be it a Cal vs Kessler winner or perhaps a little revenge with RJJ. IMO, Hop's is easily top 5 AT Middle and I'd have him no less than 3 after Hagler and Monzon. One more big win?? I believe many others would put him top 3 as well.

[Amsterdam]

Flux -

I only used the 12 to 15 comparison because the great MW's whom some hold over him had 15 to work with, where as Bernard is a fighter geared for long, tactical fights and would be extremely hard for anyone to beat in a 15 round fight.

[C Money]

Flux -

I only used the 12 to 15 comparison because the great MW's whom some hold over him had 15 to work with, where as Bernard is a fighter geared for long, tactical fights and would be extremely hard for anyone to beat in a 15 round fight.

I support him being geared to 15 as well. IMO the RJJ and 1st Taylor fight might have had different outcomes in 15 round events.

[Amsterdam]

I support him being geared to 15 as well. IMO the RJJ and 1st Taylor fight might have had different outcomes in 15 round events.

Perhaps the RJJ bout, but we already know Taylor would have been finished off by Bernard in a 15.

[C Money]

Perhaps the RJJ bout, but we already know Taylor would have been finished off by Bernard in a 15.

Certainly Taylor would have been KO'd. RJJ was tiring and slowing down in the latter rounds, three more?? And perhaps we see RJJ's Chin exposed??? We'll never know, unfortunately.

[huki]

And personally, I've never found him boring, but technically masterful. We've had the oppurtunity to experience a true modern ATG go through the motions and continue to have success late in his career against very highly rated fighters, one a bit over his optimum weight, but a top 3 P4P fighter no less.

History is going to be good to Hopkins...

When rating him, we have to take into consideration what 15 rounders would have given an amazing technition like Bernard, and then compare them to close 15 round fights that top rated legends, such as Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler had and what effect they put on the result. The closest thing that comes to mind for me on what Hagler's resume would be like if they banned 15 rounders in the 70's instead of the 80's is that Duran would have won a close decision over Marvin, where Marvin needed the extra 3 rounds to seal the deal on a fight that was his by 2 points on most people's cards...

So let's take that and then take what Hopkins would have with 15 rounders and add it in to what he already has in the books:

- A tko over Wright last night would have occured in round 14 or so.

- A definite finishing off of Jermain Taylor first time around, leaving no need for the fraudulent scorecards or the rematch.

- A finishing off of Joppy.

- A finishing off of Eastman at about 14.

- Already has a KO9 and TKO12 over Trinidad(undefeated) and DLH respectively.

- Would have TKO'd Tarver 13 or 14.

- Would have a clear win first time around over that Mercado guy, leaving no draw on his record.

- Already is the only guy to stop Johnson, but under a 15 round fight, TKO11 looks much more definitive.


If this isn't comparable to the other top 15 ATG's, then I don't know what is, because we have to take the era/era comparison into context.

His resume is highly underrated, but with time he will be rated where he should, perhaps he even gets one more really significant win before retiring.
During the last 2 months I have watched about 40 of Hopkins' fights over his amazing career and while watching most of the 12 round decision wins, I thought EXACTLY the same thing about what would happen if they were 15 rounders. Not just the big fights, like Joppy, Taylor, Wright, etc, but the smaller ones. In almost all of the 12 round UD fights Hopkins had pre-Trinidad, by the 12th round, his opponents were so broken down mentally / physically that if he had 3 more rounds to work with, he would stop them. Hopkins is a true 15 round fighter at a time where many top boxers can't handle 12 well. I've never seen him look physically exhausted after a match, even in the first Mercado fight where he got off the canvas twice in Ecuador to own him in the late rounds! Even at 42 in Saturday's fight against P4Per Winky! Hopkins would have a huge KO% if he fought back in the 15 round days.

Hopkins is a great fighter and a real complete boxer, but what really impresses me about him that few people talk about is the determination, focus, and overall mindset he had throughout his entire career. I don't think I can name another boxer who looks so focused and determined to win while being so relaxed in the ring than Hopkins. Whether you watch a fight of his back in in his 20s or the fight against Winky at 42, he's always
looked hungry and his will to win is incredible.

I hate when people label Hopkins as a technical fighter who just looks to score points and not hurt his opponents. These people have never saw his fights during the 20 title defenses. Hopkins did not outbox his opponents and then cruise the last few rounds safely while being way ahead on points to win fights. He would figure fighters out in the early rounds, then increase the pressure and punishment more and more as the rounds went by and his opponents broke down.

In so many of Hopkins' fights I feel like I am watching a master boxer break his opponents down systematically and right as I'm about to see him finish them off, the end of the 12th round bell rings. I can only imagine how great it would have been to see him destroy them in the 13th, 14th, and 15th rounds.

[Relentless]

thats hard to say, i mean these uys didn't train for a 15 rounder they were training for 12, they probably would have done things differently when training for a 15 rounder.

[MrSmall]

I really wish 15 rounds were brought back, that seriously sorted the men from the boys.

45 minutes of beating the crap out of each other sounds better than 36.

[audio101]

What's masterful about throwing 6 punches a round?:patsch

[huki]

thats hard to say, i mean these uys didn't train for a 15 rounder they were training for 12, they probably would have done things differently when training for a 15 rounder.
The only things they would have done differently is get knocked out in the real championship rounds. Many fighters today simply aren't disciplined enough to train like Hopkins does and have the stamina he had back when he was younger.

[Amsterdam]

During the last 2 months I have watched about 40 of Hopkins' fights over his amazing career and while watching most of the 12 round decision wins, I thought EXACTLY the same thing about what would happen if they were 15 rounders. Not just the big fights, like Joppy, Taylor, Wright, etc, but the smaller ones. In almost all of the 12 round UD fights Hopkins had pre-Trinidad, by the 12th round, his opponents were so broken down mentally / physically that if he had 3 more rounds to work with, he would stop them. Hopkins is a true 15 round fighter at a time where many top boxers can't handle 12 well. I've never seen him look physically exhausted after a match, even in the first Mercado fight where he got off the canvas twice in Ecuador to own him in the late rounds! Even at 42 in Saturday's fight against P4Per Winky! Hopkins would have a huge KO% if he fought back in the 15 round days.

Hopkins is a great fighter and a real complete boxer, but what really impresses me about him that few people talk about is the determination, focus, and overall mindset he had throughout his entire career. I don't think I can name another boxer who looks so focused and determined to win while being so relaxed in the ring than Hopkins. Whether you watch a fight of his back in in his 20s or the fight against Winky at 42, he's always
looked hungry and his will to win is incredible.

I hate when people label Hopkins as a technical fighter who just looks to score points and not hurt his opponents. These people have never saw his fights during the 20 title defenses. Hopkins did not outbox his opponents and then cruise the last few rounds safely while being way ahead on points to win fights. He would figure fighters out in the early rounds, then increase the pressure and punishment more and more as the rounds went by and his opponents broke down.

In so many of Hopkins' fights I feel like I am watching a master boxer break his opponents down systematically and right as I'm about to see him finish them off, the end of the 12th round bell rings. I can only imagine how great it would have been to see him destroy them in the 13th, 14th, and 15th rounds.

Class post Huki, I agree fully.:good

[Relentless]

The only things they would have done differently is get knocked out in the real championship rounds. Many fighters today simply aren't disciplined enough to train like Hopkins does and have the stamina he had back when he was younger.


we dont know that for sure now do we, training methods would have been different, instead of running 3 miles they would have ran 5, instead of doing 8 interval circuits they would have been doing 12, fights would have been fought at a different pace, if leon spinks was able to go 15 i'm sure alot of others would aswell.

[sues2nd]

That maybe true, but his career might have also been shorter. Jones would have probably KO'd him also.

Did you even see that fight?

Hopkins wasnt even hurt in it....how would Jones have stopped him? I mean, what tells you this?

:huh

BTW....good post Am and Huki...

[bladerunner]

thats hard to say, i mean these uys didn't train for a 15 rounder they were training for 12, they probably would have done things differently when training for a 15 rounder.
exactly.that logic of what if it were 15 rounds is ridiculous.

[Carlos Primera]

That maybe true, but his career might have also been shorter. Jones would have probably KO'd him also.
Hopkins>Jones

[El Bombasto]

It's not a matter of what he could have or should have done, it's a matter of what he did do, and BTW this suppossed master strategist lost to Jermain Taylor (who, by all accounts on this forum, is just average) TWICE:deal

[Darthmage]

What did I post that was not on target?

Trinidad, JMW.
ODLH, JWM.
Winky, JWM.
Tarver, sucks and known for KOing an over-the-hill rjj.
Eastman, who is that when comparing him to ATG status?
Taylor, sucks?

The names on the resume are great and he is deffinetly getting up there but I wouldn't jump the gun. If he would have beaten RJJ that would have been truly great.