Heorl Graham.......Where does he rank?

[Cobra33]

I never see his name in any of the top 10/15 greatest British boxers.
Why is that?He was talented and it was years before he suffered his first loss.

[TBooze]

I do not have in my top 10 Brits:

10 Jim Watt
9 Duke McKenzie
8 Randy Turpin
7 Ricky Hatton
6 Chris Eubank
5 Nigel Benn
4 Naseem Hamed
3 Jackie Paterson
2 Ken Buchanan
1 Lennox Lewis

But I did have in my top 101 fighters of the 80s:


101 Herol Graham
100 Miguel Lora
99 Michael Moorer
98 Hilmer Kenty
97 Rolando Navarrete
96 Yong Kang Kim
95 Gabby Canizales
94 Fulgencio Obelmejias
93 Bobby Czyz
92 Frank Tate
91 Matthew Hilton
90 Sean O'Grady
89 Terry Marsh
88 Greg Haugen
87 Duke McKenzie

[scurlaruntings]

His one of the best fighters Britain ever had that never became a world champ.What Julian Jackson did to him was brutal.Every time you think of Herol Jackson immediately springs to mind.

[Vantage_West]

great fighter just damn unlucky to fight at wrong times. real shame if he won the title he would be sorted but now he is just remembered as a great english boxer...but only a european belt on his name and a highlight reel of him geting koed by julian jackson.
doesnt he run a boxarobic classes now...what a shame

[Dunky McCafferty]

I would class Herol Graham in the same bracket as scotsman Gary jacobs, both won british, commonwealth & european titles but always came up short against the best.

Jacobs lost to Buddy McGirt & Pernell Whittaker, & Graham lost to Mike McCallum & Julien Jackson.

I love Jacobs the way the englanders love Herol Graham, but its hard to argue that either deserve to be called british greats, cos they always came up that bit short when it mattered.

[nulty]

Not a great, just short. One the best fighters to never win a world title. His comeback and earning a shot a Brewer was impressive I was screaming that night really thought the old might the title I thought he deserved.

Shame to see him these days teaching boxercise in a posh gym (altough he said he wouldn't want to get into proper training) and making skipping ropes for a few extra quid. Still at least he accepts that he should have looked after his money but didn't and isn't like your bitter, drunk ex pros.

[enquirer]

I think herol was in the same league as guys like watson,collins,eubank and benn...Its a shame he never fought any of them....He was a little unlucky to fight two very good boxers (Jackson and especially mccallum.) for his first two title shots and to get his final shot at an advanced age....I think he was better than watson,dont let the stoppage by jackson cloud your judgement,he ran mccallum all the way in their contest....He was probably avoided by the top british guys of the time as well...

[Betty Swollocks]

I think herol was in the same league as guys like watson,collins,eubank and benn...Its a shame he never fought any of them....He was a little unlucky to fight two very good boxers (Jackson and especially mccallum.) for his first two title shots and to get his final shot at an advanced age....I think he was better than watson,dont let the stoppage by jackson cloud your judgement,he ran mccallum all the way in their contest....He was probably avoided by the top british guys of the time as well...

Julian Jackson was a shitty boxer......he was a mini Razor Ruddock but with even more p4p power. Bomber was boxing his head off until he got caught...though I still say it was a premature stoppage.
Running that McCallum close was a sign of what a good technician Bomber was.

[Cobra33]

Theres NOWAY Graham isn't top ten in British History.
He WAS FAR MORE TALENTED THEN GARY JACOBS.
He didn't get his shots until LATTER in his career.
He was FAR more talented then Benn,Eubank,Watson,and Collins.
Could you EVEN Imagine Collins be able to be competive with Graham?
Just because he didn't win a title he shouldn't be penalized.Skill is skill regardless.Top 10 EASILY.

[ron u.k.]

Julian Jackson was a shitty boxer......he was a mini Razor Ruddock but with even more p4p power. Bomber was boxing his head off until he got caught...though I still say it was a premature stoppage.
Running that McCallum close was a sign of what a good technician Bomber was.agree 100%.jackson wasn't in the same class as a boxer and graham was giving him a lesson they were on the verge of stopping it because of eye damage.graham totally out of character dropped his defences and went in for the kill then bingo.it's true his performance vs mcCallum showed his pedigree.

[enquirer]

Jackson may have been not so great a 'boxer' but he was one of the hardest p4p punchers of all times....A lethal one punch hitter....Graham was maybe one round away from stopping the man,just had to box really.....
And lennox lewis is better than all those other brits you mentioned in terms of resume and achievements....Y'all musta forget LL....

[hitman_hatton1]

Theres NOWAY Graham isn't top ten in British History.
He WAS FAR MORE TALENTED THEN GARY JACOBS.

yeah bullshit comparison from dunky.

graham gave mccallum a damn close fight.

and was boxing rings around jackson until that finish.

jacobs was decisively beaten in top class.

if graham was around now the world would have been his oyster.

the 80's was a great era. :bbb

[Dunky McCafferty]

yeah bullshit comparison from dunky.

graham gave mccallum a damn close fight.

and was boxing rings around jackson until that finish.

jacobs was decisively beaten in top class.

if graham was around now the world would have been his oyster.

the 80's was a great era. :bbb

How dare you call my post bullshit you cheeky cunt:twisted:

Read my post again, & read it properly. Achievement wise you cant split Graham & Jacobs.

Now if we are going to get into a debate about who had the more natural talent, its a no-brainer. Herol Graham had more natural talent than Gary Jacobs. However, I wasnt talking about that, I was looking at their careers in the cold light of day, not fannying around with romantic notions like you about what-might-have-beens.

At the end of the day, Gary Jacobs fought the no1P4P fighter in the world at the time pernell Whittaker, & the ringside analysts had Jacobs winning the fight up until the 6th round, before Whittakers class told.

Read my post boy. ACHIEVEMENT wise, you cant split them. & as for the old "if herol was around today blah blah" well he isnt. & are you forgetting Grahams awful defeat against the average Kalambay who was blown away in a round in his next fight by Michael Nunn?

Its time to take the rose tinted spectacles off when talking about one of your own HH, & read a post for what it is without letting national pride cloud your judgemement.

Graham was a great guy with bags of talent, but he wasnt good enough to hang with the best of his era. His L's prove that.

[Boro chris]

Dunky, I think your being a bit harsh on Kalambay,he has plenty of decent scalps on his record-Macallum,DeWitt,Collins and Iran Barkley if I remember correctly. No one saw the Nunn fight panning out as it did.
He did benefit from an awful hometown decision in the rematch against Graham though.

[Cobra33]

Name 1 worldclass boxer Jacob's beat?
Graham stoppped future champ Lindell Holmes.
Graham stopped Former champ Kalue
Graham beat by far better boxers then Jacobs ever dreamed about beating.
Graham was rated 1 in the world at one time in his weightclass-was Jacobs?

[Dunky McCafferty]

Dunky, I think your being a bit harsh on Kalambay,he has plenty of decent scalps on his record-Macallum,DeWitt,Collins and Iran Barkley if I remember correctly. No one saw the Nunn fight panning out as it did.
He did benefit from an awful hometown decision in the rematch against Graham though.

Maybe I am, maybe im not. But you gotta be harsh in here sometimes when everyone is being harsh on you. Everyone is hating on Jacobs just cos I said Grahm is on a par with him, so you gotta fight fire with fire when the buggers try to grind you down:bbb

[Dunky McCafferty]

Name 1 worldclass boxer Jacob's beat?
Graham stoppped future champ Lindell Holmes.
Graham stopped Former champ Kalue
Graham beat by far better boxers then Jacobs ever dreamed about beating.
Graham was rated 1 in the world at one time in his weightclass-was Jacobs?

Yeah, Lindell Holmes name just rolls off the tongue when talking about the greatest fighters of any era, eh?:nut

[Cobra33]

Well what champ did Jacobs EVER beat?

[hitman_hatton1]

& are you forgetting Grahams awful defeat against the average Kalambay who was blown away in a round in his next fight by Michael Nunn?

Its time to take the rose tinted spectacles off when talking about one of your own HH, & read a post for what it is without letting national pride cloud your judgemement.

Graham was a great guy with bags of talent, but he wasnt good enough to hang with the best of his era. His L's prove that.

but he was good enuff to hang with the best of his era.

he lost close fights to mccallum and the guy u call average sumbu kalambay. :patsch he was beating jackson until being nailed and he was even beating brewer at 38 yrs old before being stopped.

in the cold light of day they both got as far as european titles.

but the truth is that graham was a genuine world top 10 fighter and jacobs was just really only a solid european champion and no more than that. :thumbsup

[Boro chris]

Jacobs was quick and had a fine technique, good bodypuncher as well but his chin and lack of power made him fall just short at the highest level. I used to appreciate watching him fight though.

[Pat Breen]

Theres NOWAY Graham isn't top ten in British History.
He WAS FAR MORE TALENTED THEN GARY JACOBS.
He didn't get his shots until LATTER in his career.
He was FAR more talented then Benn,Eubank,Watson,and Collins.
Could you EVEN Imagine Collins be able to be competive with Graham?
Just because he didn't win a title he shouldn't be penalized.Skill is skill regardless.Top 10 EASILY....didnt Collins come back from America after losing a close decision to McCallum and a home town decision to Reggie Johnson and beat Eubank twice and stop Benn so yes I could see him being competitive, probably even winning against Graham..I mean, where does that leave Benn, Eubank, Watson who nearly killed each other trying to keep the title in Britain...

[Claypole]

though I still say it was a premature stoppage.
Ha ha! So do I. I think the ref was being over protective. I don't think Graham grasped why the fight was over.

[hitman_hatton1]

...didnt Collins come back from America after losing a close decision to McCallum and a home town decision to Reggie Johnson and beat Eubank twice and stop Benn so yes I could see him being competitive, probably even winning against Graham..I mean, where does that leave Benn, Eubank, Watson who nearly killed each other trying to keep the title in Britain...

he lost wide to mccallum.

barely won a rd in that fight. :roll:

graham would have outboxed him in 89.90 i think. :bbb

[Vantage_West]

I would class Herol Graham in the same bracket as scotsman Gary jacobs, both won british, commonwealth & european titles but always came up short against the best.

Jacobs lost to Buddy McGirt & Pernell Whittaker, & Graham lost to Mike McCallum & Julien Jackson.

I love Jacobs the way the englanders love Herol Graham, but its hard to argue that either deserve to be called british greats, cos they always came up that bit short when it mattered.well to be honest. he lost a close fight that could of swung either way mcCallum
gave a boxing lesson to jackson
and was beating brewer very very badly till the ref stopped the fight (it was a bit premature but still he took 6 shots unanswered)

also he was a junior middle for the mcCallum fight
middlewieght for jackson
and super middle for brewer.

now i know few boxers who can only lose once to regarded the man of each division.

it was the way the cookie crumbled.

[Dunky McCafferty]

well to be honest. he lost a close fight that could of swung either way mcCallum
gave a boxing lesson to jackson
and was beating brewer very very badly till the ref stopped the fight (it was a bit premature but still he took 6 shots unanswered)

also he was a junior middle for the mcCallum fight
middlewieght for jackson
and super middle for brewer.

now i know few boxers who can only lose once to regarded the man of each division.

it was the way the cookie crumbled.

I love the way you skirted over what really happened in the jackson fight! & how he was beating Brewer very badly!! Not to mention how the fight with Mike could have went "either way"

man, Im outta this argument, as it seems more like a Herol appreciation thread than an honest look at his career achievements, which the thread was supposed to be.

Once again, Dunkys the bad scottish guy cos he dared to compare an english nearly man to a scottish nearly man! Really, some of you englanders need to get over yourselves sometimes. Look back at what I said earlier with a cool head, was it that offensive? Of course it wasnt. In fact, it is I who feels offended for everyone trying to take away from Jacobs achievements, which as I correctly pointed out, compare with Grahams.

[ron u.k.]

herol graham with time is generally starting to be overrated on here.it could be argued that every time he stepped up to real world class he got beat.kalambay twice,mcCallum,brewer and of course jackson.his best wins are against kalule who if i remember correctly hurt him badly,perennial journeyman lindell holmes and domestic operators kaylor,cooke and price.his only thing in favour over jacobs is that he probably stepped up to fight at world level more often.i can't stand the brendan ingle style but to be fair he was the best exponent of it by far,mainly because unlike others he had great balance.to suggest he belongs in the 10 greatest british fighters of all time is plain unadulterated nonsense.there are probably more than half a dozen middleweights alone who were better.harvey,mcCavoy,turpin,minter,finnegan,sibson,benn and eubank

[hitman_hatton1]

I love the way you skirted over what really happened in the jackson fight! & how he was beating Brewer very badly!! Not to mention how the fight with Mike could have went "either way"

man, Im outta this argument, as it seems more like a Herol appreciation thread than an honest look at his career achievements, which the thread was supposed to be.

Once again, Dunkys the bad scottish guy cos he dared to compare an english nearly man to a scottish nearly man! Really, some of you englanders need to get over yourselves sometimes. Look back at what I said earlier with a cool head, was it that offensive? Of course it wasnt. In fact, it is I who feels offended for everyone trying to take away from Jacobs achievements, which as I correctly pointed out, compare with Grahams.

oh ffs dunky.

your wrong on this.

graham was genuine world top 10 and your boy was at best a european champion.

[Jimbo]

Not saying it's representative of Graham but had to stick it in.

OhVi7cH-LaQ&mode

[Dunky McCafferty]

oh ffs dunky.

your wrong on this.

graham was genuine world top 10 and your boy was at best a european champion.

This kind of post is exactly what has made me want to stop posting on this thread, its turned into a Herol celebration thread, as I have already said.

Why am I wrong HH? Cos I dont agree with you? Thats the only reason I can see for me being wrong, as my argument stands up to the closest of scrutiny.

Listen buddy, you have to be prepared for people to disagree with you in here, this aint like the other forums where big friendly cliques rule.

Its time you grew up as far s this argument is concerned. Oh & before I go, you said Jacobs was nothing more than a european champ. But think about it, when Jacobs fought the best Whittaker & McGirt, he went the distance. Did Graham when he fought the best?

As I say, I gave Graham his respect & said earlier on I conceded he was the more naturally talented fighter than Jacobs, but you CANNOT argue that both are not on the same level. All this Graham all time british great stuff? Misty eyed nostalgia has taken a grip. Take a look at the cold facts. AGAIN. Like I said before. & before that. & before that.

Oh & sorry for telling you to grow up earlier in the post, cos I dont even know what age you are! Sometimes I can be presumptious. Prove me wrong.

Right, encore over. Dunky has now left the thread.

[Dunky McCafferty]

herol graham with time is generally starting to be overrated on here.it could be argued that every time he stepped up to real world class he got beat.kalambay twice,mcCallum,brewer and of course jackson.his best wins are against kalule who if i remember correctly hurt him badly,perennial journeyman lindell holmes and domestic operators kaylor,cooke and price.his only thing in favour over jacobs is that he probably stepped up to fight at world level more often.i can't stand the brendan ingle style but to be fair he was the best exponent of it by far,mainly because unlike others he had great balance.to suggest he belongs in the 10 greatest british fighters of all time is plain unadulterated nonsense.there are probably more than half a dozen middleweights alone who were better.harvey,mcCavoy,turpin,minter,finnegan,sibson,benn and eubank

That was a fine post Ron, you knocked it on the head. Graham was a fine fighter, & a naturally more gifted fighter than Gary Jacobs IMO. In fact, I would even say Herol Graham was on the same level talent wise as Sugar Ray Leonard, but his chin let him down. However, some people here dont seem to have the capacity for a proper debate, they just want to elevate fighters who they liked to legendary status, to suit their own arrogant agendas.

damn, didnt I say I was outta here?:patsch :lol:

man, you gotta laugh here sometimes, or else you'll cry.

[ron u.k.]

That was a fine post Ron, you knocked it on the head. Graham was a fine fighter, & a naturally more gifted fighter than Gary Jacobs IMO. In fact, I would even say Herol Graham was on the same level talent wise as Sugar Ray Leonard, but his chin let him down. However, some people here dont seem to have the capacity for a proper debate, they just want to elevate fighters who they liked to legendary status, to suit their own arrogant agendas.

damn, didnt I say I was outta here?:patsch :lol:

man, you gotta laugh here sometimes, or else you'll cry.it's all about keeping perspective bonny lad..perspective:good

[hitman_hatton1]

That was a fine post Ron, you knocked it on the head. Graham was a fine fighter, & a naturally more gifted fighter than Gary Jacobs IMO. In fact, I would even say Herol Graham was on the same level talent wise as Sugar Ray Leonard, but his chin let him down. However, some people here dont seem to have the capacity for a proper debate, they just want to elevate fighters who they liked to legendary status, to suit their own arrogant agendas.

damn, didnt I say I was outta here?:patsch :lol:

man, you gotta laugh here sometimes, or else you'll cry.

all i've ever said on this thread is that he's a better fighter than gary jacobs ffs. :yep

and let's be honest his careers proves me right.

graham beat solid top 10 contenders in his career.

jacobs fell short against the 2 top fighters he fought.

graham lost to the world champions he fought.

but he beat many former champions.

fuck it everyone else on here with a brain knows he accomplished more than jacobs.

[Dunky McCafferty]

fuck it everyone else on here with a brain knows he accomplished more than jacobs.

Anyone with 'a brain' can see your argument is hopeless. You are better off sticking to being a Hatton nuthugger, cos you fall short in areas like these. The proof is in the lack of backup you are receiving right now.

It wil be interesting to see if anyone now rallies to your call...

[hitman_hatton1]

Name 1 worldclass boxer Jacob's beat?
Graham stoppped future champ Lindell Holmes.
Graham stopped Former champ Kalue
Graham beat by far better boxers then Jacobs ever dreamed about beating.
Graham was rated 1 in the world at one time in his weightclass-was Jacobs?

as i say i think that post right there sums it all up.

my argument is not that graham is a all time british p4p pounder.

but better than the likes of jacobs.

course he was. :roll:

[brown bomber]

Julian Jackson was a shitty boxer......he was a mini Razor Ruddock but with even more p4p power. Bomber was boxing his head off until he got caught...though I still say it was a premature stoppage.
lol- :D :lol: :good I agree.... he defintely would have got up and been in a position to continue once they had collected his jaw from row 17!!!