Liston's Best Fight

[Muchmoore]

What fight in your eyes was Liston at his best? One of the Big Cat Williams fights? His destruction of Zora Folley?

[Muchmoore]

Come on it was pretty much Sonny Liston Day the last few days and I can't get a reply? :lol:

[TommyV]

Probably Patterson in fairness, to KO the world heavyweight champion in 1 round twice in a row is no mean feat, he'd fought good competition before aswell, such as Archie Moore, and had just come off 2 KO wins over Ingo.

[McGrain]

Pre-Ali, I would say Patterson I. It's not very satisfying viewing, but it's the most complete domination of a great heavyweight by another great heavyweight, ever.

Post Ali I would say Henry Clark. A good fighter with a great chin and Liston absotlutely battered him. Showed good form, too.

[mcvey]

Pre-Ali, I would say Patterson I. It's not very satisfying viewing, but it's the most complete domination of a great heavyweight by another great heavyweight, ever.

Post Ali I would say Henry Clark. A good fighter with a great chin and Liston absotlutely battered him. Showed good form, too.
I personally wouldn't call Patterson a great heavyweight.

[SuzieQ49]

easily the wayne bethea fight, its not even close. liston destroyed a top 10 contender in 58 seconds who never before had been stopped and never after would be stopped. liston came in lean and mean a 204lb and never looked as sharp and fast.

[Seamus]

His best victory was winning the hearts and minds of his adorers on this board.

[Stonehands89]

His best victory was winning the hearts and minds of his adorers on this board.
HAHA! Nice.

[ChrisPontius]

The Patterson fights for me. No one ever dominated him like that before or after... and it happened twice in a row.

[Unforgiven]

The first Cleveland Williams fight showed how Liston could soak up some punishment, remain composed and come firing straight back in destructive fashion. Against a fighter who is bigger, a bit quicker, and quite possibly just as powerful.

The second Cleveland Williams fight is similar, but Liston gets the job done quicker.

Those fights are Liston's best, in my opinion.

[JohnThomas1]

His best victory was winning the hearts and minds of his adorers on this board.

I sure know one heart and mind he hasn't won

:D

[SuzieQ49]

The Patterson fights for me. No one ever dominated him like that before or after... and it happened twice in a row.

ever seen the wayne bethea fight?

[markedwardscott]

Cleveland Williams before he got shot was considered awsome. Their fight was Liston's best.

[Stonehands89]

I sure know one heart and mind he hasn't won

:D
Ok.... but you don't have to hug him to appreciate what he brought into the ring. He had serious assets. I'm curious to know which of the following you see beating 1959 Liston:

Louis
Marciano
Clay
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Bowe
Lewis
Klitschko

[ChrisPontius]

ever seen the wayne bethea fight?


Yep. Great showing, but Bethea was a journeyman for 95% of his career whereas Patterson was an on-and-off top contender for almost 15 years, including two championship reigns.
Taking that into account, i think the Patterson wins are much more impressive, even if it was the ideal stylistic matchup.

I mean, Tyson sure looked great against Stewart, who like Bethea was ranked briefly (but gave Holyfield trouble), but his dominant wins over Spinks and Berbick are much more impressive.

[JohnThomas1]

Ok.... but you don't have to hug him to appreciate what he brought into the ring. He had serious assets. I'm curious to know which of the following you see beating 1959 Liston:

Louis
Marciano
Clay
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Bowe
Lewis
Klitschko

I wasn't talking of you......

Clay obviously

Louis, Tyson, Holmes and Lewis stand decent chances too i think. Lewis i like a lot in this one.

[Stonehands89]

I wasn't talking of you......

Clay obviously

Louis, Tyson, Holmes and Lewis stand decent chances too i think. Lewis i like a lot in this one.
I wasn't taking it personally! But I see that you see Liston as formidable in head to heads. Personally I don't see any version of Clay beating a 1959 Liston who bothered to train. 1967 is a completely different story. That latter is the only one I wouldn't hesitate to favor.

[Seamus]

Ok.... but you don't have to hug him to appreciate what he brought into the ring. He had serious assets. I'm curious to know which of the following you see beating 1959 Liston:

Louis
Marciano
Clay
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Bowe
Lewis
Klitschko


I give a prime version everyone above a chance against Liston, less so for Clay, Frazier, Marciano, Frazier and Holyfield. Moreso for the rest.

[Stonehands89]

I give a prime version everyone above a chance against Liston, less so for Clay, Frazier, Marciano, Frazier and Holyfield. Moreso for the rest.
Fair enough, although I'd probably argue anyway. Particularly when it came to Tyson.

[Manassa]

First Williams fight.

[SuzieQ49]

but Bethea was a journeyman for 95% of his career whereas Patterson was an on-and-off top contender for almost 15 years, including two championship reigns.



Im confused. corrie sanders was a journeyman 95% of his career, yet I hear you defending him in other threads saying he was not a journeyman. Bethea appeared in the Ring Magazine annuel ratings in his career more times than sanders did in fact. Bethea made it 3 times annuelly and many times monthly. He was certainly a well earned consistent contender, technically speaking.


Liston was getting old and soft and rusty by patterson fights, he was in rock solid shape hungry and young during the wayne bethea fight.

[ChrisPontius]

Im confused. corrie sanders was a journeyman 95% of his career, yet I hear you defending him in other threads saying he was not a journeyman. Bethea appeared in the Ring Magazine annuel ratings in his career more times than sanders did in fact. Bethea made it 3 times annuelly and many times monthly. He was certainly a well earned consistent contender, technically speaking.


Liston was getting old and soft and rusty by patterson fights, he was in rock solid shape hungry and young during the wayne bethea fight.
Right. And how often did Bethea beat a top opponent, let alone the #1 contender? The best he managed to do was beat a green Terrel who at that time was losing to guys like Johnny Gray. Go figure. Bethea was very tough and durable, but not nearly as dangerous as Sanders who was a big guy with fast hands, a hard punch and an unorthodox stance. Bethea has had over 10 opportunities to fight top opponents and lost every time except for a green Terrel who only reached the top10 four years later.

About him being a consistent contender (technically speaking), he sure was consistent. In that he kept losing when he stepped up.



As for Liston getting old and rusty during the Patterson fights, what is your evidence for that?

[mr. magoo]

As for Liston getting old and rusty during the Patterson fights, what is your evidence for that?

I'm interested in hearing the explanation to this claim as well. The Patterson fights are commonly listed as two of the most destructive wins over a prime a champion in heavyweight history. If Liston was rusty for these matches, then I must have missed it.

[SuzieQ49]

Liston began his decline since the first patterson fight. He was far more inactive(going into the rematch he had fought just 5 rounds in the past 3 years)...he began enjoying party life like dempsey, his age started to creep up on him(anywhere from 31-33 take your pick) and his body looked softer by 1963. He was able still to dispose of floyd so easily because he simply put was such a beast and floyd was so scared and intimidated from the first fight that it didnt matter if liston was 40, same thing would have happened to floyd.


Its clear ingo would not have stood a chance in hell vs liston. he would have had to gotten the luck of an angel.



listons absolute best was when he weighed in peak very trim 204lb vs wayne bethea. his speed and reflexes were sharper faster than i had ever seen. he was a lean mean machine that night, and he was younger.

[ChrisPontius]

I think you're taking the rusty and old thing a bit too far. He turned pro relatively late and had many prison breaks during his career and no grueling 10+ round wars; that, plus his style makes him a relatively young 31. Certainly, at the time, all reports of the Patterson fights list him as being as awesome as he ever was and not a single word about being rusty, old or enjoying the party life too much.

[Holmes' Jab]

1. Williams I
2. Patterson I
3. Folley
4. Patterson II
5. Wepner (nice swansong)

[SuzieQ49]

1. Williams I
2. Patterson I
3. Folley
4. Patterson II
5. Wepner (nice swansong)


no bethea? he hammered a top 10 contender in brutal 58 seconds, a man who never before or never after would be stopped.

[SuzieQ49]

I think you're taking the rusty and old thing a bit too far. He turned pro relatively late and had many prison breaks during his career and no grueling 10+ round wars; that, plus his style makes him a relatively young 31. Certainly, at the time, all reports of the Patterson fights list him as being as awesome as he ever was and not a single word about being rusty, old or enjoying the party life too much.

relativley young 31? he arguebably was around 33-34 that time, he certainly looked older than 31. after liston won the title, he stopped training with intensity, he enjoyed sex drugs booze and party life. his body became soft. he had boxed just 5 rounds in 3 years, he was very rusty. he was aging. liston was not staying hungry like he used too fighting top contenders ever other month anymore to keep sharp.