Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

[mr. magoo]

Tyson cleaned out his division much more thoroughtly than Liston did, regardless of claims about Liston beating the likes of men like Valdez, Machen, Williams, etc. He would have bullied the bully.

[standing 8countboxing]

This is one of my dream fights. Liston and Tyson had comparable "rises" to the top, in my opinion. I favor a Prime Tyson over just about anyone, so I'll say Tyson here, but just a slight lean.

[Stonehands89]

While Wealthy Elite masturbates to his imaginary MegaTyson at ringside of this imaginary bout and gets arrested like Pee Wee Herman for exhibitionism, Liston would show the "Manchild" what "a Man" is. And he'd be doing it gradually and painfully.

Tyson would be expected to do some damage early, but I just don't see Liston getting hurt or not bending his knees and returning fire when Tyson is in range. And Tyson would be preoccupied with that telephone pole of a jab -and wary about what's coming behind it.

It is well-established that Tyson was not effective without forward motion. Liston had more than enough strength to move him off balance and backwards. And he could hit like hell and had a defense that was better than the majority of HW champions.

Tyson would fade precipitously with every round -not only physically but emotionally.

Tyson was a fake thug.

Liston was a real-life bad-ass.

Tyson was known to beat up these:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Ask this guy what Liston did to him one night in Vegas outside the Thunderbird:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Holmes' Jab]

The authentic badass bully (Liston) beats the wannabe badass bully (Tyson). Closely contested fight, though. Liston TKO10.

[Holmes' Jab]

What about a guy who chomps pieces of his opponents ear(s) off whilst he's getting his ass whipped in a boxing match. Is that badass? :lol:

[Stonehands89]

I guess being a mob enforcer and beating up innocent people is far more BADASS than someone who commited crimes as a jackass teenager.


Liston is too slow and too small to beat tyson.
Open your dreamy eyes and learn something.

1. Mob enforcers rarely beat up "innocent" people.

2. Tyson's violence against old people didn't stop when he got into his 20s, or his 30s -when he attacked two men after a minor traffic incident -the guy he punched was 62 years old and he kicked the other one in the groin. Does that turn you on?

[prime]

Liston would show the "Manchild" what "a Man" is.

Liston is not my definition of a man. His psyche is about as suspect as Tyson's. Liston himself folded like a cheap suit to Clay's childlike mind games and moderate trouble in defending the crown. To me Liston is not the one to expose Tyson's fragility.

Liston is a step behind Tyson in speed and power. Tyson over Liston.

[janitor]

Liston might just be the perfect stylistic foil for Tyson.

My reason for saying this is that Liston was a master on the back foot and knew how to make come forward fighters pay for every forward step.

Of course with a puncher like Tyson you can never be sure.

[ChrisPontius]

Liston is not my definition of a man. His psyche is about as suspect as Tyson's. Liston himself folded like a cheap suit to Clay's childlike mind games and moderate trouble in defending the crown. To me Liston is not the one to expose Tyson's fragility.

Liston is a step behind Tyson in speed and power. Tyson over Liston.

I concur with every word.



I also wonder what Desire Washington, Evander Holyfield and Mitch Green have to say about Tyson being a fake-thug.


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[Only registered and activated users can see links]



[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Not that it's a desireable trait or anything, but Tyson was every bit as psycho as Liston was. And at least he went out on his shield as a champ, unlike Liston.

[janitor]

Not that it's a desireable trait or anything, but Tyson was every bit as psycho as Liston was.

Depends which type of psycho you are talking about.

Liston was probably more stable and in some ways a less randomly violent person.

However when it comes to criminal and street fighting credentials Liston was an altogether darker character.

Not that I would want either of them living next door to me.

[ChrisPontius]

Depends which type of psycho you are talking about.

Liston was probably more stable and in some ways a less randomly violent person.

However when it comes to criminal and street fighting credentials Liston was an altogether darker character.

Not that I would want either of them living next door to me.
Liston less randomly violent? I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Here is an excerpt (spelling) of an article in Sports Illustrated, july 1961:

"Shortly before 3 a.m. on June 12 Mrs. Delores Ellis, a 29-year-old Negro woman, was driving home alone through Philidelphia's Fairmount Park when she noticed a car following her. The pursuing car drew alongside, a spotlight was played upon her and she was ordered to pull over and stop. Just then, John Warburton, a park guard, drove up. The two men turned off their lights and sped away. Warburton gave chase at speeds reaching 80 mph. When he overtook them, one man jumped out of the car and ran. Warburton fired a warning shot, and the fugitive halted. The driver remained motionless behind the wheel. Warburton remarked later, with some astonishment, that the driver's face was absolutely expressionless.

The two men were charged with impersonating an officer, extinguishing auto lights to avoid identification, resisting arrest, disorderly conduct and conspiracy, and were released on $300 bail. The driver of the car was identified as Sonny Liston , the No. 1 contender for the heavyweight championship of the world, at present held by Floyd Patterson. It was Liston's 19th arrest since 1950. On July 1 the charges were dismissed after a hearing conducted by Magistrate E. David Keiser. At the judge's suggestion, Liston and his companion apologized to Mrs. Ellis."

(..)

"And Sonny Liston[/URL] panicked and got in trouble again on the night of May 5, 1956. Trouble, in this instance, was Patrolman Thomas Mellow of the St. Louis police. "I was making my relief corner and passed an alley," Mellow said. "A cab was parked in it with the parking lights on. From the entrance to the alley I asked who the driver was. The driver came down, said his name was Patterson . I told him he could get a ticket, but I was going to let him move the cab. Then Liston[URL="[Only registered and activated users can see links]"] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) came down. 'You can't give him no ticket,' he said, real rough like. 'The hell I can't,' I said. I took out my ticket book, flashlight, to get the city sticker number off the cab. As I started over, Liston came over and gave me a bear hug from the front, lifted me clear off the ground. I didn't realize what was happening until he grabbed me. Kind of caught me off guard. After they got me in the dark part of the alley, Patterson says, 'Get his gun.' We struggled, and all three of us fell. Liston got my gun out. Then Patterson says, 'Shoot that white son of a bitch.' Liston releases me and points the gun at my head. I'm pushing up on the barrel with both hands to keep from looking down that muzzle. They were walking all over me. I hollered: 'Don't shoot me.' "Liston let up all of a sudden," Mellow said, "hit me over the left eye with either the gun or his fist, it took seven stitches. My left leg was broken in the knee either from the fall or somebody stomping me. Then they run up the alley. That's the biggest man I ever.... When he give me that bear hug I couldn't even get my toes on the ground. He appeared to be drinking; the fellows that arrested him had a little trouble.""






Of course, that was the story of the cop. Liston had his own version of it and the truth probably lies in between, as usual. The article also says that Liston was said to have the mind of 12 year old when it came to these tactical decisions. Another interesting thing is that Liston said he was 200lbs when he was 16 years old. Wasn't the story that he didn't know his own age? In the article, he talks about his brothers and how they think he was born in 1932, as still is the consensus right now.

[janitor]

Liston less randomly violent? I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Here is an excerpt (spelling) of an article in Sports Illustrated, july 1961:

Of course, that was the story of the cop. Liston had his own version of it and the truth probably lies in between, as usual. The article also says that Liston was said to have the mind of 12 year old when it came to these tactical decisions. Another interesting thing is that Liston said he was 200lbs when he was 16 years old. Wasn't the story that he didn't know his own age? In the article, he talks about his brothers and how they think he was born in 1932, as still is the consensus right now.

Liston was a man capable of extreme violence and became prone to violence while drunk. He apears to have raped at least two women and of course he broke legs for the maffia.

There were however some paradoxes to his personality.

He apears to have been a gentle husband and his wife vheamently defends him to this day. He was kind to children despite having a violent and abusive farther and had a sense of respect for elderly people.

[Muchmoore]

What about a guy who chomps pieces of his opponents ear(s) off whilst he's getting his ass whipped in a boxing match. Is that badass? :lol:

Quitting on your stool against a light hitting fighter after quitting isn't exactly badass either.

[SuzieQ49]

wow both these fighters being harsly critisized on stuff that has nothingt to do with the ring, when dudes like lennox lewis and klit brothers who are worshipped here would be crucified in the ring by both liston and tyson.


Liston and tyson both are in my top 4 heavyweight list of all time. i like liston by late TKO in a close fight.

[ironchamp]

Liston might just be the perfect stylistic foil for Tyson.

My reason for saying this is that Liston was a master on the back foot and knew how to make come forward fighters pay for every forward step.

Of course with a puncher like Tyson you can never be sure.

This can actually work in reverse.

Movement and speed has always troubled Sonny Liston. Tyson has the headmovement and speed necessary to take minimal punishment while having the handspeed to retaliate with his own leather (Ok, so did Patterson) but the biggest difference between Patterson and Tyson is that Tyson was more explosive and fought far more aggresively.

Liston-Patterson I, Floyd showed me up until he was caught, was that a bob and weave peek-a-boo defense if used consistently can give any fighter with the physicalities of a world class fighter a serious advantage over Liston. (this includes Frazier, Marciano, Tua, Morrison- if his chin holds up, etc)

You dont beat Tyson by landing that one big punch. Liston's lack of handspeed means, that even if he does land on Mike it wont be in combination which is vital in beating Mike.

[rekcutnevets]

This is a difficult fight for me. I can see ways for both fighters to win, and am not 100% certain in my pick. I may even change my mind during my post.

Liston be roughly the same size as Tyson with just over a foot in reach advantage. Liston could step around his opponent, but didn't look interested in backing up. I don't know if Liston's reach advantage would be a large factor here.

Tyson would be the most powerful fighter Liston ever faced, and only Ali and Patterson could claim as fast or faster hands. Tyson would also have one of the best chins Liston faced. With his build, Tyson was probably able to take a punch better than Ali. Ali's will to win just out matches Tyson's chin in regards to punishment.

I think Tyson's hand speed would be too much for Liston for the first 5 rounds. Tyson was not much into wrestling with an opponent, so Liston would be able to tie him up and occasionally push him around on the inside. Still, Tyson would get off he cleaner punches in the early going. Tyson was loaded with fast twitch muscle fibers, and they would begin to wear out after 6 or so rounds. Liston would start finding his stride around the 6th round. The problem is, he will have lost the first 5 rounds and he doesn't really have a ton of late round stoppages himself.

Liston also fades down the stretch, and Tyson wins a decision 8-7 in rounds.

[Blacc Jesus]

Liston is not my definition of a man. His psyche is about as suspect as Tyson's. Liston himself folded like a cheap suit to Clay's childlike mind games and moderate trouble in defending the crown. To me Liston is not the one to expose Tyson's fragility.

Liston is a step behind Tyson in speed and power. Tyson over Liston.
Seconded.

[fists of fury]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Ever hear the story between Tyson and this guy?

[Maxmomer]

No.

[ChrisPontius]

Ever hear the story between Tyson and this guy?

Rumor has it they made sweet love while Tyson kissed those bigs lips of his and fucked him till he loved him.

[fists of fury]

Same one I heard then. ;)

[Stonehands89]

Liston is not my definition of a man. His psyche is about as suspect as Tyson's. Liston himself folded like a cheap suit to Clay's childlike mind games and moderate trouble in defending the crown. To me Liston is not the one to expose Tyson's fragility.

Liston is a step behind Tyson in speed and power. Tyson over Liston.
The "a Man" comment was there for contrast (with "manchild"), it was also there to call to mind the words on Sonny's grave.

I would agree completely that there are several donzen who would -and have- made Tyson look like that comparative child he is. Danny Williams being the latest. Sonny's on the thread and considering his career in toto as well as the circumstances of his life and his rise to the top, I think that Tyson is far less than Sonny in terms of heart. This doesn't excuse the shady circumstances surrounding his career -I for one would not be surprised if Pontius' theory about Machen's and William's claims are right.

Liston was bad. He hurt alot of people, particularly when drunk, but he was no coward, and I think that Tyson, in his heart of hearts, really was. There are just too many attempts to bite, break arms, and other poor ways of escaping distress.

I don't like Tyson's chances against any ATG who would hurt him -not stun him like Tucker or Ruddock- hurt him. Tyson, though durable as hell, did have a tendency to stay hurt and lose confidence drastically when that happened, even though his body would stay upright for longer than the average guy.

[Robbi]

Everyone rates Tyson high H2H yet forget about the mental aspect of boxing when piting him against other heavyweights. If Tyson couldn't knockout Ali, Louis, Holmes and others early he's going to have problems.

[TommyV]

Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

:nono

[BlackWater]

Liston is one of my picks for someone who might stand a chance against Mike, but in this case I think Tyson had the speed advantage over Liston and power to match. Tyson would take it in the end.

[Sardu]

While Wealthy Elite masturbates to his imaginary MegaTyson at ringside of this imaginary bout and gets arrested like Pee Wee Herman for exhibitionism, Liston would show the "Manchild" what "a Man" is. And he'd be doing it gradually and painfully.

Tyson would be expected to do some damage early, but I just don't see Liston getting hurt or not bending his knees and returning fire when Tyson is in range. And Tyson would be preoccupied with that telephone pole of a jab -and wary about what's coming behind it.

It is well-established that Tyson was not effective without forward motion. Liston had more than enough strength to move him off balance and backwards. And he could hit like hell and had a defense that was better than the majority of HW champions.

Tyson would fade precipitously with every round -not only physically but emotionally.

Tyson was a fake thug.

Liston was a real-life bad-ass.

Tyson was known to beat up these:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Ask this guy what Liston did to him one night in Vegas outside the Thunderbird:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Who is the wrestler Liston clobbered Stonehands? Just curious. Thanks.

[Sardu]

Tyson's speed would be a problem for Liston. Liston's jab would be a bigger problem for Tyson IMO. Power is equal.

Liston KO 10 Tyson

[Stonehands89]

Who is the wrestler Liston clobbered Stonehands? Just curious. Thanks.
Dick the Bruiser

[janitor]

This can actually work in reverse.

Movement and speed has always troubled Sonny Liston. Tyson has the headmovement and speed necessary to take minimal punishment while having the handspeed to retaliate with his own leather (Ok, so did Patterson) but the biggest difference between Patterson and Tyson is that Tyson was more explosive and fought far more aggresively.

Liston-Patterson I, Floyd showed me up until he was caught, was that a bob and weave peek-a-boo defense if used consistently can give any fighter with the physicalities of a world class fighter a serious advantage over Liston. (this includes Frazier, Marciano, Tua, Morrison- if his chin holds up, etc)

You dont beat Tyson by landing that one big punch. Liston's lack of handspeed means, that even if he does land on Mike it wont be in combination which is vital in beating Mike.

I can see your point, but if I was looking for sombody to beat Liston I would not start by looking for a better version of Floyd Patterson.

Tyson is going to be coming forward into fire and is going to have to take a lot of punishment to get through. Also consider that Liston was good on the inside if Tyson got in close.

[ChrisPontius]

Dick the Bruiser

As you may have noticed, i'm not the biggest Liston fan around, but this was one story that i actually enjoyed very much. Especially considering that "look how tough i am" picture of the Bruiser.

[bigjake]

As you may have noticed, i'm not the biggest Liston fan around, but this was one story that i actually enjoyed very much. Especially considering that "look how tough i am" picture of the Bruiser.

the bruiser was a badd ass in the 60's,many stories of him man handling people.he died from a heat attack in florida several years back

[prime]

The "a Man" comment was there for contrast (with "manchild"), it was also there to call to mind the words on Sonny's grave.

I would agree completely that there are several donzen who would -and have- made Tyson look like that comparative child he is. Danny Williams being the latest. Sonny's on the thread and considering his career in toto as well as the circumstances of his life and his rise to the top, I think that Tyson is far less than Sonny in terms of heart. This doesn't excuse the shady circumstances surrounding his career -I for one would not be surprised if Pontius' theory about Machen's and William's claims are right.

Liston was bad. He hurt alot of people, particularly when drunk, but he was no coward, and I think that Tyson, in his heart of hearts, really was. There are just too many attempts to bite, break arms, and other poor ways of escaping distress.

I don't like Tyson's chances against any ATG who would hurt him -not stun him like Tucker or Ruddock- hurt him. Tyson, though durable as hell, did have a tendency to stay hurt and lose confidence drastically when that happened, even though his body would stay upright for longer than the average guy.

Both fighters suffered from different versions of the bully syndrome; thus, mentally they about cancel each other out. Whoever gets the upper hand out of the gate will probably prevail, and Tyson was more explosive, with a key edge in speed, and a master at getting around the jab, and could go the distance.

I also don't like Liston's chances against any ATG who would hurt him.

[Sardu]

Dick the Bruiser


thanks

[ironchamp]

I can see your point, but if I was looking for sombody to beat Liston I would not start by looking for a better version of Floyd Patterson.

Tyson is going to be coming forward into fire and is going to have to take a lot of punishment to get through. Also consider that Liston was good on the inside if Tyson got in close.

Fair enough but it should be noted that Liston has not faced a puncher as big as Tyson whereas Tyson has faced punchers that can hit as hard if not harder than Liston.

Thing is Liston wont be landing combinations. His hands weren't fast enough. I do admit Liston had a pretty good inside game and was a versitile fighter but against Mike you can only beat him if you keep him out of the fight. When Tyson was still and elite fighter you needed a solid and consistent jab (Liston got it) lateral movement (Liston doesnt have it) and fast hands (Liston doesnt have it) and you need to clinch alot and most importantly limit Tyson's offense to keep it competitive.

My assertion is that Liston would be able to make a fight out of it but would be unable to keep Tyson out of the fight and because of that he would never have beaten him if they both met at thier respective peaks.

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE= First of all Tyson in his prime was around 215, the weight for
Sonny Liston was around 215 so where do you get Tyson was 15 pounds
heavier. Liston was the larger man overall as Tyson`s reach was 71" Liston`s
was 84" Tyson was 5' 11" if that Liston was 6' 1" Liston was bigger in the chest, arms, fists, Liston had a 17 1/2" neck compared to Tyson`s 19 3/4
neck but Sonny`s was stronger than hell as he stood on his head with all his weight coming down on it and rolled his head around and around. Sonny did this as part of his training, people were amazed that he didn`t break his neck doing it. Tyson`s extra weight over Liston came from his legs. 27" thighs to Liston`s 25 1/2, 18" calf to 16", other than that Liston was bigger almost everywhere else except the legs forearms Tyson 14" Liston 14 1/2" fist Tyson
13" Liston 15" and Liston was not slow as a puncher. You look at him with
Ali and he`s reaching after the fastest footed heavyweight champion next to
Gene Tunney of all time and he looks slow. watch other training films of him hitting the speed and heavybag and then tell me he slow handed. BULL SHIT.
When he had a guy where he wanted him and cut loose with his feet planted
his hands were damn fast in combinations. I THINK HE WOULD INTIMIDATE
TYSON AT CENTER RING AND THEN KO HIM AS TYSON WASN`T FAST FOOTED
IN ANY WAY EXCEPT FORWARD. LISTON HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH GUYS LIKE THAT JUST RUNNERS. IF YOU STOOD INFRONT OF LISTON AND TRIED TO BOB AND WEAVE WITHOUT LATERAL MOVEMENT WHICH TYSON DIDN`T HAVE
MUCH OF HE WOULD KILL THE GUY.

[fists of fury]

Okay, in all seriousness...

With due respect to Liston and those defending him, I'm battling to envisage a Liston win here.

Liston was a great fighter in his era, but his era didn't include a whole lot of well-conditioned 220 lb. men who stood well over six feet.
Can we really argue that Liston wasn't really battle-tested against such men? Tyson of course was, and to me this is a critical difference between them.

As for the mental game, I don't really see anything in Liston that should intimidate Tyson too much. Liston was a badass for his day and his comparative huge size by the standards of the day was intimidating, but against a guy who often fought men as big or bigger than Liston I don't think Liston's size means anything here.
The big, bad bear isn't going to be so big in this matchup.

Of course Liston brought a scowling demeanour and tough guy image with him. Perhaps there would be something in that baleful look he shot at you that would intimidate Tyson, but we cannot say with any certainty.

In as much chance as Liston has of intimidating Tyson, I think the reverse is also true. Certainly he scared the division half to death in his first reign and even in his second. Poor Micheal Spinks wore the look of a doomed man before the start of their fight.
So as far as intimidation tactics and stuff go, anything is possible. Certainly both men became masters of this dark art during their respective primes.

There is a lot to like when looking at Liston stylistically. He had a beautiful, hard jab that could land almost as hard as some people's right hands. He had a good repertoire of punches and could hit as hard as pretty much anyone, and with both hands.
Certainly he was no crude slugger as was say, Foreman. He had remarkably well-polished skills for a man that came from the really mean side of life.

His big downfall - speed or the lack of it - is what I think will be his achilles heel in this fight. He is facing a man with not an edge in handspeed, but a massive advantage in handspeed. We cannot underestimate this aspect of any fight.
That kind of speed advantage is what allowed a Roy Jones to dominate two excellent technical fighters in Hopkins and Toney. Sometimes there is just no answer to a guy with lightning quick hands. Naturally Jones and Tyson fought competely different types of fights, but the point stands.
When you enjoy a big advantage in handspeed, you can get away with a whole lot more than the other guy.

I believe the reach advantage enjoyed by Liston would be quite successfully nullified by Tyson's quick reactions, evasiveness coming in and counter-punching skills. I don't think Tyson ever fought a guy with an inferior reach to himself, and he was remarkably adept at getting inside a long jab or right hand and countering the guy with a heavy hook.
Even as a budding 19 year old prospect he had this skill mastered.

Tyson's options are not limited to countering though, as he was quite happy to lead and punish with a series of hard combinations, often started by utilising his own (rarely discussed) jab. I think Liston would find it hard to get set and throw his big punches, as Tyson victims often complained that they just could not time Tyson as he was so quick getting inside.
As his hands were not the quickest to begin with, I think this compounds Liston's woes.

In looking at Tyson's losses when he was still a force, I see guys who did not allow him to get inside and work those debilitating combinations. Douglas and Lewis kept him at a distance and fired off long-range artillery. They did not allow Tyson to get set. Both men though, were relatively quick-handed and were facing a less-than-spectacular Tyson.
Holyfield did not allow Tyson to push him back and warred in the trenches with Tyson when he needed to. He was also not intimidated by Tyson in any way. Most importantly, he had studied Tyson in such detail that he was pretty accurate in predicting exactly what Tyson would do, and how to counter it.
I don't see Liston studying Tyson in such fine detail, nor is he a quick-handed combination puncher like Holyfield was. He will also not enjoy a significant size advantage like Douglas and Lewis did. Lastly, he will be facing the very best version of Tyson, not an underprepared or shop-worn version.

Tyson by stoppage / KO, but I'm not predicting the round.

[janitor]

[quote=ironchamp]Fair enough but it should be noted that Liston has not faced a puncher as big as Tyson

Debatable.


whereas Tyson has faced punchers that can hit as hard if not harder than Liston.


He certainly never faced a composite puncher as efective as Liston in his prime.

Thing is Liston wont be landing combinations. His hands weren't fast enough.

George Foreman didnt need to land combinations against Joe Frazier to destroy him. All he needed to do was to make him take a few punches to land one and keep forcing him back.

Liston would be able to implement this strategy more efectivley.

I do admit Liston had a pretty good inside game and was a versitile fighter but against Mike you can only beat him if you keep him out of the fight.

Tyson never really developed a suite of infighting skills so if Liston grabs him and then switches his attack to the inside he will have to step back to get punching room. When he dose this Liston will also step back and Tyson will have to plough through more punches to get in range.

When Tyson was still and elite fighter you needed a solid and consistent jab (Liston got it) lateral movement (Liston doesnt have it) and fast hands (Liston doesnt have it) and you need to clinch alot and most importantly limit Tyson's offense to keep it competitive.

I dont think you necisarily needed movment or fast hands. You could male a case that you needed these things to beat Joe Frazier prior to the Foreman fight.

The bottom line is that when two elite punchers fight the one comig forward is toast unless there is a big disparity in quality. There are verry few exceptions historicaly.

[Maxmomer]

I've not heard the Dick the Bruiser story. Anyone?

[Sardu]

I've not heard the Dick the Bruiser story. Anyone?


I read something on Wikipedia about Dick the Bruiser. I forget his real last name. He was from Indiana and a weightlifting fanatic before it became really popular. He was about 6-1" and 265lbs. David Letterman used a variation of Dick the Bruiser's title when he named Paul Schafer's band 'The World's Most Dangerous Band.' Letterman, like Dick the Bruiser, is from Indiana. Anyway, legend has it that Liston confronted Dick in the lobby of the Thunderbird. Liston had heard he had made some disparaging remarks about the state of heavyweight boxing at the time. Liston cornered him and starting slapping his face. Dick the Brusier begged Liston to let him go and eventually started crying for Liston to leave him alone. Like I said, this is a rumor and there is no proof it actually happened. Dick the Bruiser passed away in November of 1991 while lifting weights. A blood vessel in his neck ruptured during the workout.

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE= DICK AFFLIS was his name and in a street fight I guarentee
he didn`t back down from Liston as he was just about crazy. One time he took on Alex Karris and the whole danm bar they were in. Then he beat up some cops who came to stop the whole mess. Dick ( The Bruiser ) Afflis
played 5 yrs at Defensive Tackle for the Green Bay Packers in the 1950s
but quit when he found out he could make 5 times the money as a Pro Wrestler.

[Stonehands89]

As you may have noticed, i'm not the biggest Liston fan around, but this was one story that i actually enjoyed very much. Especially considering that "look how tough i am" picture of the Bruiser.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

...you must mean that one!

I don't particular give rumors or legends much weight. I think it far more likely that the "horse" Duran knocked out was a cardboard cut-out of the one Ichabod Crane rode in "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow." But this Liston-Bruiser story has credibility for a few reasons:

- Liston was a degenerate gambler, and haunted Vegas generally and it is not the least bit hard to believe that he was at the Thunderbird and ran into or went looking for Dick the Bruiser.

-Liston had a problem with "fresh mouths". It was in a casino that he slapped Clay across the face after he was disrespected by him. Theirs a modus operandi there. It's consistent. Dick made comments about the current state of the HW division and Liston took it personally -no surprise there either.

- Liston was a thug, especially when he drank. He didn't exactly consider consequences when acting out.

- for those who cannot believe that Dick would be humiliated like this considering his reputation. First of all, Alex Karris was a pro wrestler himself. In other words, he was a bad actor more than he was an athlete. That barroom brawl may have been either a publicity stunt or drunken trashtalking that got out of hand.