Chavez vs. DLH

[redrooster]

Had Chavez been in his prime (say the Chavez of the Rosario fight) could he have held his own against the young stud Oscar Dela Hoya or the ultimate speedster Hector Camacho?

Oscar was a buzzsaw that day he ripped thru Chavez and hitting prime Hector was harder than hitting a cloud. How could Chavez possibly do it? Would judges from Mexico necessarily have to be selected?

Those two fighters IMO would be the ultimate test for him.

[rekcutnevets]

If Oscar truly idolized Chavez, he would have given Chavez a rematch after winning the title in that fashion. He was dominating Chavez, but that cut left something to be desired. The cut was from a punch, and the bout should have been stopped. I just think Oscar set the tone for the rest of his career here. He was more interested in being Ray Leonard than he was Pernell Whitaker. More interested in his own glory than in truly proving himself and leaving any doubts.

He gave Chavez a rematch a little later, at another weight. Oscar looked like a man fighting a child. Chavez had a few moments in this fight before quitting on his stool after a vicious hook from Oscar drained the fight out of him. Those moments look as though Chavez could have a chance with him had he been younger. He would have out fought Oscar on the inside.

Oscar showed he had the legs to run all night against Trinidad. He also showed substance against Vargas. Vargas bulled him into the ropes early in that fight, and I remember the look on Oscar's face. He was shocked by Vargas' strength, and looked very concerned. He showed his competitive spirit that night.

Oscar's height, reach, speed, legs, good power at 140 would have always posed a threat to Chavez. I don't know if Chavez could beat him if Oscar chose the right game plan.

The problem with Camacho is his heart. Camacho would never quit for anyone, but he would stop trying to find a way to win. He reminds me of Mike Tyson in this regard. In some of his fights, when the going gets tough he just starts going through the motions. Like he has lost mentally.

If Camacho were younger when he fough Chavez, he would have made the fight a lot more difficult. I just think Chavez would apply enough pressure to take the fight away from him late. Chavez would beat a younger Camacho by decision around 7-5 in terms of rounds.

[Robbi]

If Oscar truly idolized Chavez, he would have given Chavez a rematch after winning the title in that fashion. He was dominating Chavez, but that cut left something to be desired. The cut was from a punch, and the bout should have been stopped. I just think Oscar set the tone for the rest of his career here. He was more interested in being Ray Leonard than he was Pernell Whitaker. More interested in his own glory than in truly proving himself and leaving any doubts.

He gave Chavez a rematch a little later, at another weight. Oscar looked like a man fighting a child. Chavez had a few moments in this fight before quitting on his stool after a vicious hook from Oscar drained the fight out of him. Those moments look as though Chavez could have a chance with him had he been younger. He would have out fought Oscar on the inside.

If you watch De La Hoya-Chavez II you will notice that Chavez actually fools him tactically. Over the first 6-7 rounds of the fight Chavez holds back and doesn't steam forward at all. He actually gives De La Hoya a lot of trouble with this style, especially when De La Hoya isn't on the balls of his feet working a rhythm behind his jab. Chavez was good on the outside in the rematch. And IMO they were fighting on even terms inside until De La Hoya landed that monster uppercut at the end of the 8th round. I'd give De La Hoya the slight edge, but only just.

[Robbi]

If Oscar truly idolized Chavez.

Yeah, De La Hoya did idolize Chavez. But the fighter who's style he truely admired the most as a fighter was Arguello.

With Chavez being Mexican and De La Hoya being an amateur kid when Chavez was in his prime the 'idolizing' was always going to come with the territory.

[Hatesrats]

De La Hoya is natutaly the bigger man than Chavez...
in De La Hoya-Chavez II the fight took place at Welterweight
where De La Hoya on fight night weighed in at 160+ pounds.
Where as Chavez struggled to make Welter weighing in at 144lbs.

although I also agree that Julio's experience at times made Oscar look
foolish in the fight, you couldn't help but notice it was truly a Jr. Middle vs. a Jr. Welter
the size difference was huge. (Chavez landed flush shot's would bit even budge Oscar)

Had Julio not had such a great chin
De La Hoya-Chavez II would have been
over in 4. (Without a cut ruining it like in I)

But Prime for Prime...:think

[la-califa]

If Oscar truly idolized Chavez, he would have given Chavez a rematch after winning the title in that fashion. He was dominating Chavez, but that cut left something to be desired. The cut was from a punch, and the bout should have been stopped. I just think Oscar set the tone for the rest of his career here. He was more interested in being Ray Leonard than he was Pernell Whitaker. More interested in his own glory than in truly proving himself and leaving any doubts.

He gave Chavez a rematch a little later, at another weight. Oscar looked like a man fighting a child. Chavez had a few moments in this fight before quitting on his stool after a vicious hook from Oscar drained the fight out of him. Those moments look as though Chavez could have a chance with him had he been younger. He would have out fought Oscar on the inside.

Oscar showed he had the legs to run all night against Trinidad. He also showed substance against Vargas. Vargas bulled him into the ropes early in that fight, and I remember the look on Oscar's face. He was shocked by Vargas' strength, and looked very concerned. He showed his competitive spirit that night.

Oscar's height, reach, speed, legs, good power at 140 would have always posed a threat to Chavez. I don't know if Chavez could beat him if Oscar chose the right game plan.

The problem with Camacho is his heart. Camacho would never quit for anyone, but he would stop trying to find a way to win. He reminds me of Mike Tyson in this regard. In some of his fights, when the going gets tough he just starts going through the motions. Like he has lost mentally.

If Camacho were younger when he fough Chavez, he would have made the fight a lot more difficult. I just think Chavez would apply enough pressure to take the fight away from him late. Chavez would beat a younger Camacho by decision around 7-5 in terms of rounds. A prime Camacho had many,many problems with Edwin Rosario. While Chavez destroyed Rosario. How about a couple of common opponents? Whitaker: A slightly fading Chavez at 147. Against a prime Whitaker, Gave Whitaker a good fight, it was close but Whitaker should have gotten the nod. Now against De La Hoya a past his prime Whitaker gave a prime De La Hoya all he could handle & probably should have gotten the nod on that one as well.
Camacho: Past his prime against Chavez, Chavez won pretty convincingly. De la Hoya fought an even older Camacho & it was a much closer match.
And as far as De La Hoya's legs are concerned, his stamina has always been in question. That's when Chavez is at his best, coming on strong in the late rounds. Plus the key factor. De la Hoya was always vulnerable to the straight right hand(Even Gil Clancy commented on this). Chavez would deliver hard right hands down the pipe all night long & when De La Hoya raises his guard. A brutale assault to the body. Chavez goes to the body much better than Hopkins ever did.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally posted by la-califa
And as far as De La Hoya's legs are concerned, his stamina has always been in question.

Oscar used to by known as the fighter that closed the show. I'm not saying he should have been victorious against Quartey, but he sure won the last round. It wasn't until he through his fight with Trinidad away, and after that losing the 12th to Shane Mosley, that people began to question his stamina. His stamina was always good before those fights. I do not recall him tiring down the stretch.

As I stated earlier, Chavez would have a chance against Oscar. He proved as much when he challenged him at 147. I still think Oscar can take a younger version at 140 if he can stick to the right game plan.

As far as how each performed against Camacho, I don't really take into consideration. Camacho doesn't fight like Oscar, Chavez doesn't fight like Camacho, and styles make fights. Ali beat Foreman, but Foreman handled Frazier and Norton better than Ali.

Hopkins was a 6'1/2" middleweight, not a 5'7" junior welterweight. I can't really use this fight as a barometer for De la Hoya vs. Chavez.

[Robbi]

Oscar used to by known as the fighter that closed the show. I'm not saying he should have been victorious against Quartey, but he sure won the last round. It wasn't until he through his fight with Trinidad away, and after that losing the 12th to Shane Mosley, that people began to question his stamina. His stamina was always good before those fights. I do not recall him tiring down the stretch.

If De La Hoya is to be matched against Chavez at 135lbs or 140lbs his stamina cannot be questioned. Your correct, stamina was never an issue with him up until the Trinidad fight. Against Molina, Gonzalez, Whitaker, and even Quartey at welterweight he always closed fights strongly.

[la-califa]

Oscar used to by known as the fighter that closed the show. I'm not saying he should have been victorious against Quartey, but he sure won the last round. It wasn't until he through his fight with Trinidad away, and after that losing the 12th to Shane Mosley, that people began to question his stamina. His stamina was always good before those fights. I do not recall him tiring down the stretch.

As I stated earlier, Chavez would have a chance against Oscar. He proved as much when he challenged him at 147. I still think Oscar can take a younger version at 140 if he can stick to the right game plan.

As far as how each performed against Camacho, I don't really take into consideration. Camacho doesn't fight like Oscar, Chavez doesn't fight like Camacho, and styles make fights. Ali beat Foreman, but Foreman handled Frazier and Norton better than Ali.

Hopkins was a 6'1/2" middleweight, not a 5'7" junior welterweight. I can't really use this fight as a barometer for De la Hoya vs. Chavez. Against Miguel Angel Gonzalez, De La Hoya tired and retreated in the end of the fight, The crowd was loudly boooing him. The only reference to Hopkins is that Chavez has a savage body attack. As well a straight right hand, that De La Hoya has always been vulnerable to. & against Quartey De La Hoya was knocked down & hurt badly.

[rekcutnevets]

Originally posted by la-califa
Against Miguel Angel Gonzalez, De La Hoya tired and retreated in the end of the fight, The crowd was loudly boooing him.
If I recall correctly, De la Hoya had developed a big lead and still won the 11th and 12th rounds.

[Robbi]

If I recall correctly, De la Hoya had developed a big lead and still won the 11th and 12th rounds.

De La Hoya closed the show and opened up with heavy power punches during the last round of the Gonzalez fight. I've never heard of anyone have a different opinion of that particular fight. Apart from the other poster above your last post. Maybe he needs to view the fight again. No doubt about it actually.

[la-califa]

De La Hoya closed the show and opened up with heavy power punches during the last round of the Gonzalez fight. I've never heard of anyone have a different opinion of that particular fight. Apart from the other poster above your last post. Maybe he needs to view the fight again. No doubt about it actually. In the end of the fight De La Hoya was retreating and Gonzalez was following him around the ring while the crowd was Boooing. They even Booed the Decision and De La hoya shrugged his shoulders to the crowd. It's on tape if you want to see it again.

[Robbi]

In the end of the fight De La Hoya was retreating and Gonzalez was following him around the ring while the crowd was Boooing. They even Booed the Decision and De La hoya shrugged his shoulders to the crowd. It's on tape if you want to see it again.

Your a pure liar. De La Hoya opened up and hit Gonzalez a few times with power punches during the last round. The crowd booed the decision. Are you suggesting Gonzalez won the fight? I sure hope not. If your serious maybe best go and take up another sport as a hobby.

[Robbi]

In the end of the fight De La Hoya was retreating and Gonzalez was following him around the ring while the crowd was Boooing. They even Booed the Decision and De La hoya shrugged his shoulders to the crowd. It's on the tape if you want to see it again.

I have the fight thanks. Two versions of it, HBO and ESPN Superbouts.

[Thread Stealer]

DLH took a round or 2 off late in the fight with MAGO, maybe it was fatigue or being bothered by his eye, but had a strong 12th.

[la-califa]

DLH took a round or 2 off late in the fight with MAGO, maybe it was fatigue or being bothered by his eye, but had a strong 12th. yes, an early good start. But then was retreating in the second half of the 12th. The crowd was only booing him because he was retreating at the end & refusing to fight. But he clearly won the decision.

[la-califa]

Your a pure liar. De La Hoya opened up and hit Gonzalez a few times with power punches during the last round. The crowd booed the decision. Are you suggesting Gonzalez won the fight? I sure hope not. If your serious maybe best go and take up another sport as a hobby. Yes he opened strong, but in the second half of the round he was avoiding Gonzalez, mainly because he had the fight in the bag. But Latin fans don't like it when fighters retreat, especcially in the last round & they got on him a little bit. & that's why they were not happy when the decision was announced. De La Hoya clearly won the fight.

[martin0792]

Julio Cesar Chavez was scheduled to fight Meldrick Taylor in Las Vegas, he was in L.A at the time training for the fight and was looking for some sparring partners when he first met a young amateur Oscar De La Hoya. His manager came to Oscar De La Hoya's Boxing club were he also trained with Shane Mosley and a fighter named Pepe Reilly. Chavez's Manager gave them the opportunity to spar with Chavez and gave them the address to come to, Oscar, Shane and Pepe couldn't believe it. Later Oscar arrived with his trainer Robert Alcazar along with Pepe and Shane. Pepe and Shane sparred with Chavez first, they both wore 12-ounce gloves. It was De La Hoya's turn next, on his way to the sparring session with his trainer, one of Chavez's people stopped De La Hoya and said "no you may not use these gloves", he handed Oscar a pair of 18-ounce gloves and said to Oscar " We have heard stuff about you". When Oscar stepped in the ring with Chavez he held nothing back wanting to make an impression on Chavez, he done well until he got Chavez's full attention and was caught with a right hand that put De La Hoya down to one knee, he bounced up and finished the rest of the round, after the 2 rounds of sparring Oscar was preparing to leave with Robert and Chavez's manager said to Oscar "Julio wants to speak with you come to this address later, forget the other two sparring partners only you". Oscar and his trainer Robert went to meet with Chavez, they shook hands and Chavez said to Oscar " You hit me with some good punches, your a great fighter". Six years later when Oscar fought Chavez he new Chavez wasn't a man that would spend a lot of time studying opponents and discussing strategy, He would simply come forward at the opening bell, absorb the best shots his opponent could deliver, and then proceed to dismantle his opponents body and will. Oscar used this to his advantage.

[la-califa]

Plus it was helpful that Chavez was well past his prime & his reflexes were slow.

[Jear]

Camacho: Past his prime against Chavez, Chavez won pretty convincingly. De la Hoya fought an even older Camacho & it was a much closer match.




Camacho-Hoya was a shutout, just about the most lopsided fight ive seen

[Robbi]

Camacho-Hoya was a shutout, just about the most lopsided fight ive seen

Hey, he's just seeing things we don't see. Maybe he has a dodgy television.

[Mythos]

I honestly believe that JCC would have come back in their first fight and beaten Hoya. Had it not been for the cut that stopped the fight Chavez would have taken Oscar into deeper and deeper waters. And I believe would have stopped him. Their second fight was much closer and Chavez was more past it then. Chavez and taylor comes to mind. Oscar would have slowed and JCC'd body shots would take the legs from Oscar late