Alexis Arguello v Floyd Mayweather Jr @ super-feather

[DINAMITA]

Who wins??

[Sweet Pea]

Mayweather on points over 12 comfortably, as Arguello had a tendancy to get outboxed early on in fights, especially by the slicksters, and he never faced one like Mayweather. Over 15 it gets a bit more interesting.

[natonic]

I'll go with Arguello by late stoppage. Mayweather has the brilliant defense, but I think his tactic of leaning away from punches and on the ropes would result in a body beating from Arguello. I also don't think he has the power at 130 to hurt/repel Arguello. Mayweather doesn't run from guys, but uses upper body movement, and I just don't think it would be enough against Arguello's varied attack. Also, Arguello was probably at his best at 130 and I don't see 130 as Mayweather's best weight.

[DINAMITA]

There is absolutely no doubt that Mayweather never faced anyone with anywhere near as effective or potent an attack as Arguello in his career. I think if Arguello could've dragged PBF into exchanges on the ropes like Castillo did in their 1st fight, or even just connected with one good right-hand shot at any point in the fight, he could've stopped Mayweather. I think Arguello would've hunted Mayweather down in a brutal fight, took a lot of punishment on the way in, but eventually got through and stopped PBF around the 9th-10th round.

[Sweet Pea]

Arguello was a lot more subtle in his approach than a guy like Castillo. He was often outboxed by far lesser fighters than Floyd early on before catching his stride later, which is why I give him a better chance over 15 rounds. However, over 12 his pressure wasn't the kind that would corner Floyd the way someone like Chavez would at LW, it was the kind of pressure that would lead to Arguello himself taking a lot of shots to try and gauge his opponents timing, speed, power, etc. He had a more difficult time at this when faced with movers, or just very good boxers, as he tended to get hit a lot before finding his stride and giving the opponent too much to think about to continue firing. I think Floyd had the perfect style at 130 to win a clear points Decision over Arguello, at least over 12. Much the same way a mover like Fernandez did in Arguello's prime over 10, but more skill-fully.

Not to mention Floyd showed far better movement in his SFW days than at any other point in his career barring the Castillo rematch. He really showed excellent lateral movement against Corrales, even if Corrales wasn't exactly a ring general.

[DINAMITA]

I think you are not crediting Arguello with a boxing brain. He may not have been an identical fighter to Castillo in terms of style, but I think the way Castillo pressured Mayweather in their 1st fight was undoubtedly the best way to approach beating him, and I think Arguello would have had the nous to realize that too in the fight. I think Arguello could have gotten to him in the last few rounds and knocked him out.

[Sweet Pea]

I think you are not crediting Arguello with a boxing brain. He may not have been an identical fighter to Castillo in terms of style, but I think the way Castillo pressured Mayweather in their 1st fight was undoubtedly the best way to approach beating him, and I think Arguello would have had the nous to realize that too in the fight. I think Arguello could have gotten to him in the last few rounds and knocked him out.I credit him with one of the best boxing brains, as I do Mayweather. The problem is, they often had to adapt to fighters during fights, which could cost them early rounds. With Mayweather, he may lose a few early ones to figure the opponent out and take the final rounds to pick up a Decision. With Arguello, he'd likely lose even more rounds, but would eventually come back to stop the opponent even if he was behind on the cards.

Against Floyd, he'd definitely be behind on the cards early, and the 130 pound version of Floyd didn't need to adapt like the Floyd at higher weights. As for the Castillo comparison, it just wasn't Arguello's style. You would assume he'd have done it to most of the fighters he fought that posed stylistic problems for him, but he didn't. Just wasn't his style, and Arguello's style was pretty set. Still very effective, but more so over 15, where I've said before it's hard to definitively choose over him at his best.

[Addie]

I'll go with Arguello by late stoppage. Mayweather has the brilliant defense, but I think his tactic of leaning away from punches and on the ropes would result in a body beating from Arguello. I also don't think he has the power at 130 to hurt/repel Arguello. Mayweather doesn't run from guys, but uses upper body movement, and I just don't think it would be enough against Arguello's varied attack. Also, Arguello was probably at his best at 130 and I don't see 130 as Mayweather's best weight.

Initially I was thinking Mayweather by decision, but then you reminded me that his body attack would play a huge factor in the outcome of this bout. Someone like Hatton was unable or unwilling to get on the inside of Mayweather, but Alexis are a far greater body puncher than Hatton. He got inside by mixing it to the head with effective meaningful punches and almost naturally would then throw an uppercut or a left hook to the body. Hatton's mistake was that he was doing no meaninful work upstairs, and he didn't hit half as hard as Alexis, even as a natural 140lb. I wouldn't be surprised to see Alexis get the worst of the opening 8 rounds, but still utilizing some body shots that would go unnoticed until later in the fight. I think it all comes down to whether or not Alexis can hurt Mayweather and I don't doubt there's any fighter who' ever fought at 130 that Alexis couldn't hurt.

[natonic]

I automatically evaluate these fights at 15 rounds. I guess showing my age a little and preferring the traditional championship distance. I would not rule out Mayweather being able to hang on for a decision at a shorter distance.

[BlackWater]

Arguello late round stoppage.

[red cobra]

I would probablt cheer myself hoarse for Alexis to either flatten him or cut him to ribbons.

[DINAMITA]

Initially I was thinking Mayweather by decision, but then you reminded me that his body attack would play a huge factor in the outcome of this bout. Someone like Hatton was unable or unwilling to get on the inside of Mayweather, but Alexis are a far greater body puncher than Hatton. He got inside by mixing it to the head with effective meaningful punches and almost naturally would then throw an uppercut or a left hook to the body. Hatton's mistake was that he was doing no meaninful work upstairs, and he didn't hit half as hard as Alexis, even as a natural 140lb. I wouldn't be surprised to see Alexis get the worst of the opening 8 rounds, but still utilizing some body shots that would go unnoticed until later in the fight. I think it all comes down to whether or not Alexis can hurt Mayweather and I don't doubt there's any fighter who' ever fought at 130 that Alexis couldn't hurt.

Agreed.

[Sweet Pea]

I personally don't think the body shots would take their toll as you guys do because Mayweather would be too mobile a target, similar to a guy like Fernandez. Normally, when Arguello went off on an opponent utilizing body-head combinations, it would be when he had an opponent hurt, not at just any point of the fight. Normally, when in boxing mode, he'd stick to feeling out an opponent with the jab and occasional rights, uppercuts, body shots, etc when an opponent looked to trade, which Floyd rarely would. Still, the longer the fight goes on the more it favors Arguello, though if he were to win over 15 I doubt it would be by Decision, and I doubt he stops him over 12.

[Addie]

I personally don't think the body shots would take their toll as you guys do because Mayweather would be too mobile a target, similar to a guy like Fernandez. Normally, when Arguello went off on an opponent utilizing body-head combinations, it would be when he had an opponent hurt, not at just any point of the fight. Normally, when in boxing mode, he'd stick to feeling out an opponent with the jab and occasional rights, uppercuts, body shots, etc when an opponent looked to trade, which Floyd rarely would. Still, the longer the fight goes on the more it favors Arguello, though if he were to win over 15 I doubt it would be by Decision, and I doubt he stops him over 12.

I agree that Alexis doesn't win a 12 round fight with Mayweather. Arguello was at his best going into the later championship rounds.

If you watch his fight with Kobayashi, he got through with shots by throwing an uncommited shot to the body and then going to the head in a blur with his right hand. I'm not to sure how Mayweather would plan on blocking both shots all night long, but he sure would have to because Floyd didn't have the power to stop Arguello.

Alexis probably did utilize the body attack when his opponent was on the hook, but not exclusively. If your opponent is in a defence shell, much like Mayweather would be, the common thing to do would be to mix it up downstairs. Arguello never fought anybody at 130 with the arsenal at Arguello had, and to think he had knockout power in both hands.

I think either Mayweather wins on points, or Alexis knocks him out.

[Sweet Pea]

I agree that Alexis doesn't win a 12 round fight with Mayweather. Arguello was at his best going into the later championship rounds.

If you watch his fight with Kobayashi, he got through with shots by throwing an uncommited shot to the body and then going to the head in a blur with his right hand. I'm not to sure how Mayweather would plan on blocking both shots all night long, but he sure would have to because Floyd didn't have the power to stop Arguello.

Alexis probably did utilize the body attack when his opponent was on the hook, but not exclusively. If your opponent is in a defence shell, much like Mayweather would be, the common thing to do would be to mix it up downstairs. Arguello never fought anybody at 130 with the arsenal at Arguello had, and to think he had knockout power in both hands.

I think either Mayweather wins on points, or Alexis knocks him out.That's fair. A couple of things though, I don't believe Mayweather at 130 was the same as Mayweather at higher weights in that he relied more on lateral movement than shelling up against the ropes. Therefore I think his lateral movement would give Arguello tougher problems getting set than he would against a guy like Kobayashi. He really was a different fighter at this weight.

But fair enough. I agree that Floyd wins clearly over the 12 round distance, with the chances of Arguello landing a well timed shot to set up his body-head combinations increasing over the 15 round distance, considering Arguello did his best work in the championship rounds, as has been said.

[DINAMITA]

That's fair. A couple of things though, I don't believe Mayweather at 130 was the same as Mayweather at higher weights in that he relied more on lateral movement than shelling up against the ropes. Therefore I think his lateral movement would give Arguello tougher problems getting set than he would against a guy like Kobayashi. He really was a different fighter at this weight.

But fair enough. I agree that Floyd wins clearly over the 12 round distance, with the chances of Arguello landing a well timed shot to set up his body-head combinations increasing over the 15 round distance, considering Arguello did his best work in the championship rounds, as has been said.

Sweet Pea: who was the better fighter P4P between these two in your opinion?

[Addie]

Sweet Pea: who was the better fighter P4P between these two in your opinion?

Although Mayweather Jr was a 5 weight world champion, you only have to look at the fighters he beat, and ask yourself, how would Arguello had faired against Gatti, Baldomir, Castillo, Hernandez, and Del La Hoya?

[Sweet Pea]

Sweet Pea: who was the better fighter P4P between these two in your opinion?Arguello rates quite a bit higher in my opinion in terms of ATG status, I just feel that head to head Floyd was phenomenal at 130 (if it being the only weight he held that status) and had the style to out-point Arguello.

But in terms of their overall careers, I rate Arguello at #23, while Floyd doesn't crack my top 35, which is as far as my ATG list gets.

[Robbi]

Arguello would get outboxed easily by Mayweather. He's a little bit too straight-up and down for someone as quick and smart as Mayweather. Arguello could slip punches, but was more inclined to block then counter. Movement wasn't a particularly strong part of Arguello's arsenal. His ability to close the distance was good, but it was measured and precise rather than fast and unorthodox. Arguello was among the best punch pickers in the history of the sport. Technically sound. But that style is made for Mayweather, who was more elasticated from top to bottom.

I can see Arguello having problems with Mayweather's jab all night long.

Mayweather TKO10.

[brownpimp88]

mayweather by decision

[Sweet Pea]

Arguello would get outboxed easily by Mayweather. He's a little bit too straight-up and down for someone as quick and smart as Mayweather. Arguello could slip punches, but was more inclined to block then counter. Movement wasn't a particularly strong part of Arguello's arsenal. His ability to close the distance was good, but it was measured and precise rather than fast and unorthodox. Arguello was among the best punch pickers in the history of the sport. Technically sound. But that style is made for Mayweather, who was more elasticated from top to bottom.

I can see Arguello having problems with Mayweather's jab all night long.

Mayweather TKO10.Really? A stoppage? I think you're vastly underestimating Arguello if that be the case. He matches up better with Floyd than Corrales does, and is far better than Corrales in pretty much every area, yet you feel he'll be taken care of the same way? I disagree heartily on this one Rob, even if I too choose Mayweather to win.

edit: Interestingly enough I agree with pretty much everything you said apart from the "TKO10".

[natonic]

I keep thinking about this fight. It's a great matchup. Mayweather blew out Diego Coralles, who although not in Arguello's league historically, presented some of the same challenges (tall, big puncher, pressing forward). It's interesting that Mayweather had problems with Castillo but none with Corrales. How much better was Arguello at 130 than Corrales?
I appreciate the arguments on Mayweather's behalf. But I think Mayweather, although brilliant at this weight, didn't quite have the experience to deal with Arguello over 15 rounds.

[Thread Stealer]

Arguello, while not as quick handed (especially on the inside) as Corrales, was much smarter and used his jab more effectively. He was just the superior fighter to Chico.

Arguello would give Mayweather some rough spots, but Mayweather would still emerge the clear UD winner.

[Robbi]

Really? A stoppage? I think you're vastly underestimating Arguello if that be the case. He matches up better with Floyd than Corrales does, and is far better than Corrales in pretty much every area, yet you feel he'll be taken care of the same way? I disagree heartily on this one Rob, even if I too choose Mayweather to win.

Yeah stoppage. I'm not underestimating Arguello. I just feel that Mayweather is all wrong for him. I don't feel "he'll be taken care of the same way". Apart from a late stoppage the comparison ends there. Arguello would give Mayweather a few things that Corrales never showed him. The ability to get off, work the body, and land on Mayweather to give him something to think about. I certainly don't see Arguello getting dropped five times and dominated throughly. However, he'd get rattled with the jab too often for my liking. And Mayweather's ability to fire off 3-4 punch combinations down the stretch would see Arguello take too much and be stopped on his feet. Arguello never fought well backing up and defensively he wasn't exceptional.

[Sweet Pea]

Yeah stoppage. I'm not underestimating Arguello. I just feel that Mayweather is all wrong for him. I don't feel "he'll be taken care of the same way". Apart from a late stoppage the comparison ends there. Arguello would give Mayweather a few things that Corrales never showed him. The ability to get off, work the body, and land on Mayweather to give him something to think about. I certainly don't see Arguello getting dropped five times and dominated throughly. However, he'd get rattled with the jab too often for my liking. And Mayweather's ability to fire off 3-4 punch combinations down the stretch would see Arguello take too much and be stopped on his feet. Arguello never fought well backing up and defensively he wasn't exceptional.If Mayweather were to attempt to fire off combinations in the center of the ring like he did against Corrales, he'd be open to the body shots and combinations of Arguello in return. I have been arguing this whole time with everyone else that he wouldn't do that, but would rather cruise to a Decision by using movement. If he did that, he'd open himself up a lot more against an accurate power puncher.

While he didn't fight great backing up, Floyd wouldn't be backing him up at all in my opinion, rather opting to fight on the move like he did against Corrales. Unlike the inept Corrales(by comparison), Arguello wouldn't follow him around, nor would he be caught off balance with combos the way Corrales was, because Arguello had such better balance and footwork. So I don't see a stoppage at all, especially if it's taking Pryor 14 rounds at 140 to overwhelm him. I just can't see a stoppage win for Floyd in any scenario, whatsoever.

[Robbi]

Another massive problem for Arguello is that he never threw punches unless he was sure they were going to land. Thats certainly a great attribute to have as he was econonmical and resourceful with everything he threw. But Mayweather's ability to pull the trigger quicker and his fluid style would mean he'd catch Arguello inbetween the inactivity this would cause for Alexis; Arguello was a thinking fighter.

[Sweet Pea]

Another massive problem for Arguello is that he never threw punches unless he was sure they were going to land. Thats certainly a great attribute to have as he was econonmical and resourceful with everything he threw. But Mayweather's ability to pull the trigger quicker and his fluid style would mean he'd catch Arguello inbetween the inactivity; Arguello a thinking fighter.I agree with this all, I just highly disagree that he'd be able to hurt Arguello or overwhelm him to a point of stopping him.

[Robbi]

If Mayweather were to attempt to fire off combinations in the center of the ring like he did against Corrales, he'd be open to the body shots and combinations of Arguello in return. I have been arguing this whole time with everyone else that he wouldn't do that, but would rather cruise to a Decision by using movement. If he did that, he'd open himself up a lot more against an accurate power puncher.

I see Arguello having some success with the above, but IMO he'd be pushed onto the defensive for most of the time. As I said previously, Mayweather's jab would cause all sorts of problems for Arguello to mount anything too serious. Arguello could whack at 130lbs, but did he have enough power to trouble Mayweather and make him negative? I don't think so. Nothing authoritive to throw him off his gameplan. He aint doing it with single punches. As I said in my last post, Mayweather has the ability to stand stationary and trigger off 3-4-5's and get away again. One problem is that Mayweather gets caught at the end of an Arguello right hand as he's stepping back out. Possible he could drop him, but Mayweather's chin was solid at all weights. Pryor stood there for long periods and Arguello said to himself "shots are banging off my head too often, I better throw something back". Mayweather as you know would not fight Arguello like this, but he has the ability to do for short periods. Big problem for Arguello during the late rounds.

Mayweather would need to stay off the ropes, that I'm sure we can argree on. Long periods of time especially.


While he didn't fight great backing up, Floyd wouldn't be backing him up at all in my opinion, rather opting to fight on the move like he did against Corrales. Unlike the inept Corrales(by comparison), Arguello wouldn't follow him around, nor would he be caught off balance with combos the way Corrales was, because Arguello had such better balance and footwork. So I don't see a stoppage at all, especially if it's taking Pryor 14 rounds at 140 to overwhelm him. I just can't see a stoppage win for Floyd in any scenario, whatsoever.


He'd certainly need to fight well backing up with when Mayweather launched attacks for long periods. Thats where we differ though. Mayweather can move through the gears as he's shown against many fighters. Do you think he's going keep Arguello behind the jab all night long and look for a boring points decision? Again, I certainly don't. And I see Arguello inability to land with anything over a sufficent period of time being a big problem for him.

[Robbi]

I agree with this all, I just highly disagree that he'd be able to hurt Arguello or overwhelm him to a point of stopping him.

We see this match-up on the same terms more or less. You see Mayweather taking Arguello on points, I see a late stoppage. The only difference I see is that Mayweather down the stretch would open up and hit Arguello with bunches of punches with would scatter his senses and for the ref to step in. Who did Arguello ever fight at 130lbs who had the ring generalship and speed or Mayweather? Escalera? Limon? Chacon? None of those.

[DINAMITA]

I see it differently. You guys are underestimating Arguello. He would adapt to PBF, gradually walk him down, find his range, get through with power punches, and stop Mayweather. Even if you don't agree, you cannot claim to be sure of a Mayweather win as Mayweather never fought anyone anywhere near as good as Arguello, so you don't know how he deals with being put under severe pressure from a 1-punch KO fighter who can go to the head and body and can fight inside. Great fighters adapt to challenges, I think Arguello was a great fighter.

[Sweet Pea]

I see Arguello having some success with the above, but IMO he'd be pushed onto the defensive for most of the time.I don't see it that way. I see Mayweather on the defensive for the most part, weary of Arguello's power as he was Corrales's.

As I said previously, Mayweather's jab would cause all sorts of problems for Arguello to mount anything too serious.Mayweather's body jab was excellent, but it's not like he had a Whitaker jab to the head, which would throw Arguello's rhythm off fully.

Arguello could whack at 130lbs, but did he have enough power to trouble Mayweather and make him negative? I don't think so.I definitely think so. Arguello was one of the best punchers in the history of the lower weight classes, not just in terms of power, but in terms of accuracy as well. I definitely think he hurts Floyd if Floyd is within punching range often, and if he plants himself often enough to throw combinations.

Nothing authoritive to throw him off his gameplan. He aint doing it with single punches. As I said in my last post, Mayweather has the ability to stand stationary and trigger off 3-4-5's and get away again.Not against Arguello I don't think. As I said, his balance was just too good for Floyd to get away with that stuff like he did Corrales.

One problem is that Mayweather gets caught at the end of an Arguello right hand as he's stepping back out. Possible he could drop him, but Mayweather's chin was solid at all weights. Pryor stood there for long periods and Arguello said to himself "shots are banging off my head too often, I better throw something back". Mayweather as you know would not fight Arguello like this, but he has the ability to do for short periods. Big problem for Arguello during the late rounds.Well, as I have made it clear, I don't see Mayweather fighting the same way as you do, not effectively anyway. And Arguello was a good deal better at 130 than he was when he faced Pryor.

Also, the late rounds were when Arguello was at his best, so I don't see him fading down the stretch at all, but rather improving.

Mayweather would need to stay off the ropes, that I'm sure we can argree on. Long periods of time especially.True, and I believe he would, as I believe he'd be in constant motion during this fight, for his own good. I just can't see him planting himself long enough to throw combinations against an accurate power puncher like Arguello without taking some heavy duty return fire. Fighting using lateral movement and pot-shots would be more difficult for Alexis to deal with, and at a lesser risk for Floyd, especially over 15 rounds.

He'd certainly need to fight well backing up with when Mayweather launched attacks for long periods. Thats where we differ though.Definitely, I think we should agree to disagree on this, as I don't see Arguello taking punishment or fighting defensively like a shot Hernandez would. Just not Arguello's game against a fighter like Floyd.

Mayweather can move through the gears as he's shown against many fighters. Do you think he's going keep Arguello behind the jab all night long and look for a boring points decision? Again, I certainly don't. And I see Arguello inability to land with anything over a sufficent period of time being a big problem for himI actually do see Mayweather doing that. Is that honestly so hard to believe considering he was never a great puncher and never faced a fighter on Arguello's level? I sound like a broken record here I'm sure, but I don't see Floyd getting off enough to hurt Arguello without the risk of heavy return fire. I think Floyd, if anything, would get more cautious as the fight went on, considering Arguello would be gaining momentum throughout, as he always struck me as one of the great 15 round fighters.

Over 12 rounds, I'd agree that Arguello would lose a Decision, as he wouldn't be able to time Mayweather accurately through most of the rounds, but I'd give him a better shot over 15.

[Sweet Pea]

I see it differently. You guys are underestimating Arguello. He would adapt to PBF, gradually walk him down, find his range, get through with power punches, and stop Mayweather. Even if you don't agree, you cannot claim to be sure of a Mayweather win as Mayweather never fought anyone anywhere near as good as Arguello, so you don't know how he deals with being put under severe pressure from a 1-punch KO fighter who can go to the head and body and can fight inside. Great fighters adapt to challenges, I think Arguello was a great fighter.Trust me, I do not underestimate Arguello by any means. I've seen more than enough of both fighters to make the comparison.

Arguello never applied extreme pressure, I think that's a mis-perception on your part. He applied steady and subtle pressure to figure his opponents out, with the slick movers being the most difficult for him. Therefore I don't see him figuring out another very smart, adaptable fighter like Floyd who holds the stylistic edge over him.

I agree with certain points that Robbi brings up, such as the fact that Floyd excelled against fighters of Arguello's style, whereas Arguello did not excel against fighters of Floyd's style. Most of his analysis I agree with in fact, aside from the stoppage in Floyd's favor, and the method Floyd would use to win.

[Robbi]

I don't see it that way. I see Mayweather on the defensive for the most part, weary of Arguello's power as he was Corrales's.

You see Mayweather running around like a mouse with Arguello taking the roll of the cat. I see it that way as well, especially during the early stages. But as I said before, Mayweather has the speed and ability to hit Arguello with head shots then get away again. Arguello would get off better than Corrales, but his success rate would be few and far between.

Mayweather's body jab was excellent, but it's not like he had a Whitaker jab to the head, which would throw Arguello's rhythm off fully.

Mayweather's jab would be a nuisance for Arguello. While it never had the snap and authority of Whitaker's, it was an effective point scorer. Blinding type of jab that he hooked off and brought the right hand it. This would cause Arguello problems to mount attacks. Arguello, while having decent speed, IMO never had enough speed to behind his own jab to outbox Mayweather. Just another problem for him round after round.


I definitely think so. Arguello was one of the best punchers in the history of the lower weight classes, not just in terms of power, but in terms of accuracy as well. I definitely think he hurts Floyd if Floyd is within punching range often, and if he plants himself often enough to throw combinations.


Yes Arguello was very accurate and could punch. But his power and Mayweather durability don't equate for Mayweather having problems. Well if Mayweather decides to fight Arguello in a similar fashion to how he fought Burton then yes I could see him getting floundered in there. But Arguello wasn't a one punch knockout artist, certainly not Hearns or Tyson like power at 130lbs to stop Mayweather. IMO he would need to be landing often on Mayweather to seriously trouble him. How Mayweather approaches this fight is anyones guess. But I see him mounting powerful attacks with both hands more often than you do. You seem to think he'll be on his bicycle for almost the entire fight. I don't.


Not against Arguello I don't think. As I said, his balance was just too good for Floyd to get away with that stuff like he did Corrales.

I see Arguello getting off inside against Mayweather when he has those opportunities. The uppercut would be a nice weapon for Arguello. But IMO I can't see him landing this type of stuff often.

Well, as I have made it clear, I don't see Mayweather fighting the same way as you do, not effectively anyway. And Arguello was a good deal better at 130 than he was when he faced Pryor.

Well I would like to let you know that most people always have Arguello down for the slaughter with a style similar to Pryor's, no matter when he faced them in his career. Arguello needed to get set, liked to fight at his own pace, and was flat-footed for the most part to get maximum leverage and power into his shots. Apart from the jab, everything Arguello threw had a lot behind it. What I'm saying is that Mayweather without any question has the ability to do what Pryor did, although only for short periods of time. Obviously it's not in Mayweather's DNA to take the risks Pryor did. When Pryor stood in there with Arguello he had him backing up into a defensive shell only to give Arguello no option but to fire back. Not Argeullo's game, out of his comfort zone. Mayweather has the ability to be be less wasteful then Pryor, box more behind the jab, and strike on Arguello when he sees counter-punching opportunities. Arguello at 130lbs would obviously be quicker and have better reflexes, but it's a style thing more than anything else.

Also, the late rounds were when Arguello was at his best, so I don't see him fading down the stretch at all, but rather improving.

I don't see him fading down the stretch either, not alarmingly anyway. Mayweather's style would be a problem for him down the stretch. And I see this as Mayweather having a better balance of offense and defense. More importantly; styles.

I actually do see Mayweather doing that. Is that honestly so hard to believe considering he was never a great puncher and never faced a fighter on Arguello's level? I sound like a broken record here I'm sure, but I don't see Floyd getting off enough to hurt Arguello without the risk of heavy return fire. I think Floyd, if anything, would get more cautious as the fight went on, considering Arguello would be gaining momentum throughout, as he always struck me as one of the great 15 round fighters.

Yes, Mayweather wasn't a great puncher. But he was well above average for the power shown by the super-featherweight divisons greats. Accumulation rather than raw power for Mayweather. I don't think Arguello would gain any momentum. Against other fighters he faced at 130lbs, but not against Mayweather. I see Arguello getting flustered with hitting fresh air, most of the time, but he would have his moments. Your going on reputation rather than the styles, I think. One fight, one night.

[Sweet Pea]

I'll respond to what I still disagree with only.

Yes Arguello was very accurate and could punch. But his power and Mayweather durability don't equate for Mayweather having problems. Why? Floyd has never taken anything like a flush Arguello shot.

But Arguello wasn't a one punch knockout artist. Uh.

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I see Arguello getting off inside against Mayweather when he has those opportunities. The uppercut would be a nice weapon for Arguello. But IMO I can't see him landing this type of stuff often.
As often as Mayweather would be willing to take the risks I could see it happening, whereas if Mayweather were to fight the type of fight I envision, he gives Arguello a lot less to work with.

Well I would like to let you know that most people always have Arguello down for the slaughter with a style similar to Pryor's, no matter when he faced them in his career. Arguello needed to get set, liked to fight at his own pace, and was flat-footed for the most part to get maxium leverage and power into his shots. Apart from the jab, everything Arguello threw had a lot behind it. What I'm saying is that Mayweather without any question has the ability to do what Pryor did, although only for short periods of time. Obviously it's not in Mayweather's DNA to take the risks Pryor did. When Pryor stood in there with Arguello he had him backing up into a defensive shell only to give Arguello no option but to fire back. Not Argeullo's game, out of his comfort zone. Mayweather has the ability to be be less wasteful then Pryor, box more behind the jab, and strike on Arguello when he sees counter-punching opportunities. Arguello at 130lbs would obviously be quicker and have better reflexes, but it's a style thing more than anything else.I think it was Pryor's relentless fury that took Arguello off his game, not just his combos and explosiveness. Floyd has the combination ability and explosiveness, but he also gives Arguello more time in between to set up and time him, therefore he wouldn't be troubled as much by Floyd's approach as Pryor's. He'd still have major trouble outboxing him, but he wouldn't take a beating.

I don't see him fading down the stretch either, not alarmingly anyway. Mayweather's style would be a problem for him down the stretch. And I see this as Mayweather having a better balance of offense and defense. More importantly; styles.I see Floyd as having a pretty set style needed to beat Arguello, one which would only go downhill as Arguello gets more acclimated to it in the later rounds. Still, I'd favor Floyd to outpoint him.

Yes, Mayweather wasn't a great puncher. But he was well above average for the power shown by the super-featherweight divisons greats.Maybe the division in general, but not the greats such as Arguello, Saddler, Armstrong, Nelson, etc. Hell, not even a guy like Camacho at 130, who showed similar power and speed/skill level to Floyd.


Accumulation rather than raw power for Mayweather. I don't think Arguello would gain any momentum. Against other fighters he faced at 130lbs, but not against Mayweather. I see Arguello getting flustered with hitting fresh air, most of the time, but he would have his moments. Your going on reputation rather than the styles, I think. One fight, one night.
I am not going on reputation whatsoever, otherwise I'd have chosen Arguello by late stoppage like everyone else. I like Arguello far more and rate him higher, so the fact that I favor Floyd over should deter you from making any accusations like that.

I simply don't see Floyd having the offensive ability needed to stop Arguello without putting himself in great danger against an offensive juggernaut. Just my take.

[PopeJackson]

Floyd on points

[Robbi]

I'll respond to what I still disagree with only.

Why? Floyd has never taken anything like a flush Arguello shot.

Uh.

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As often as Mayweather would be willing to take the risks I could see it happening, whereas if Mayweather were to fight the type of fight I envision, he gives Arguello a lot less to work with.

I think it was Pryor's relentless fury that took Arguello off his game, not just his combos and explosiveness. Floyd has the combination ability and explosiveness, but he also gives Arguello more time in between to set up and time him, therefore he wouldn't be troubled as much by Floyd's approach as Pryor's. He'd still have major trouble outboxing him, but he wouldn't take a beating.

I see Floyd as having a pretty set style needed to beat Arguello, one which would only go downhill as Arguello gets more acclimated to it in the later rounds. Still, I'd favor Floyd to outpoint him.

Maybe the division in general, but not the greats such as Arguello, Saddler, Armstrong, Nelson, etc. Hell, not even a guy like Camacho at 130, who showed similar power and speed/skill level to Floyd.

I am not going on reputation whatsoever, otherwise I'd have chosen Arguello by late stoppage like everyone else. I like Arguello far more and rate him higher, so the fact that I favor Floyd over should deter you from making any accusations like that.

I simply don't see Floyd having the offensive ability needed to stop Arguello without putting himself in great danger against an offensive juggernaut. Just my take.

" But Arguello wasn't a one punch knockout artist, certainly not Hearns or Tyson like power at 130lbs to stop Mayweather"

It's a hard one with Mayweather. Never been hit often by the punchers he faced. His chin was more or less void against Corrales for obvious reasons. But going on the evidence of Mayeather's chin combined with his defensive ability I can't see Arguello stopping him. Not with one shot anyway, accumulation he'd need and he's not got the style, handspeed, etc to do that against Mayweather.

Cheers for another view of the Rooney knockout. Again, show me a dozen like that and I'll be convinced. Aruguello wasn't a Hearns, Jackson, Tyson, etc at his weight. He could punch, hence the nickname "explosive thin man" but it was Duran like power rather than the raw type of power that would short circuit an opponent.


Sorry I can't quote every point you made. Just not the quickest of typers. These type of back and forth posts, in-depth, are few and far between from myself.

[natonic]

Arguello got Billy Costello basically with one punch too. Not 10 yet, but 2 and couting ;-)

[natonic]

I vaguely recall Bubba Buscheme going out abruptly too, but I'll verify that.

[Sweet Pea]

He took Mancini out with a single combination, amplified by that last straight right I believe it was.

I don't think there's any doubt personally that Arguello had one punch KO power.

[Robbi]

Arguello got Billy Costello basically with one punch too. Not 10 yet, but 2 and couting ;-)


Arguello could punch, no question about it. I just don't feel he could knockout Mayweather. If Mayweather was floored heavily at 130lbs then i'd give him a shot.

[Robbi]

He took Mancini out with a single combination, amplified by that last straight right I believe it was.

I don't think there's any doubt personally that Arguello had one punch KO power.

Yes, I have the fight. It wasn't a one punch knockout. He had Mancini's legs going heavily with an uppercut I believe, then followed by a series of punches from both hands. During the 13th round if memory serves me correctly.

[Robbi]

He took Mancini out with a single combination, amplified by that last straight right I believe it was.

I don't think there's any doubt personally that Arguello had one punch KO power.

"I can't see Arguello stopping him. Not with one shot anyway, accumulation he'd need and he's not got the style, handspeed, etc to do that against Mayweather"

:good

[Sweet Pea]

Arguello could punch, no question about it. I just don't feel he could knockout Mayweather. If Mayweather was floored heavily at 130lbs then i'd give him a shot.He never faced anyone like Arguello in that department though, at any weight. I don't think you can just give someone the benefit of the doubt against a puncher like Arguello though, especially one who's chin really hasn't been tested other than against Corley(whom he was clearly hurt against).

[Robbi]

He never faced anyone like Arguello in that department though, at any weight. I don't think you can just give someone the benefit of the doubt against a puncher like Arguello though, especially one who's chin really hasn't been tested other than against Corley(whom he was clearly hurt against).

Well we are really going into unknown territory here aren't we? I would say Judah's power was good at 140/147lbs. Obviously better at 140lbs. De La Hoya could whack at 154lbs, although 'pound for pound' not like Arguello could at 126/130lbs. Mayweather's chin passed the test against everyone, apart from a touch down with the glove against Judah.

Regarding the Corley fight. Mayweather was stunned, but not for long. Part of the reason others are fooled, I know I'm not, into thinking he was badly seriously hurt was because after he took the punch he went back against the ropes. This IMO was Mayweather showing he had his senses about him more than being seriously hurt. Yes, the punch drove him back but Mayweather covered up and looked more like a man content on letting Corley shoot his bolt before coming back with his own offense rather than clinging for dear life.

[round15]

Mayweather by decision over 12 rounds, if he doesn't get careless and get knocked out by Arguello's right hand.

Arguello by decision over 15 rounds.

[Addie]

Alexis Arguello is arguably the hardest hitting 130lb fighter in history. He was fighting at 140 when he took out Rooney with one shot, and you only have to review his knockout ratio to know the man could punch.

If Arguello was a natural welterweight like Hearns, I think they would have had comparable punch power.