Calzaghe Needs Bernard more than Bernard needs Calzaghe

[acb]

First off, Im not a Calzaghe hater, I respect him as a fighter and also love his choice to go straight for the Kessler fight.

With that being said, I would really like Calzaghe to show more motivation to go straight for Bernard if he gets past Kessler. Bernard would be an excellent name on his resume and one that he does need IMO. Look at Hopkins last two fights, victories over Tarver for the 175lb belt and now over a top 10 PFP fighter in Winky. Meanwhile Calzaghe has fought and beat Bika and Manfredo.

What I dont understand is Calzaghe fans here who are saying that Joe doesnt need Bernard. Of course he does. :deal

When has a fighter who wants a legacy not needed a top 30 to 40 ATG PFP fighter to add to his resume?

[Fab2333]

First off, Im not a Calzaghe hater, I respect him as a fighter and also love his choice to go straight for the Kessler fight.

With that being said, I would really like Calzaghe to show more motivation to go straight for Bernard if he gets past Kessler. Bernard would be an excellent name on his resume and one that he does need IMO. Look at Hopkins last two fights, victories over Tarver for the 175lb belt and now over a top 10 PFP fighter in Winky. Meanwhile Calzaghe has fought and beat Bika and Manfredo.

What I dont understand is Calzaghe fans here who are saying that Joe doesnt need Bernard. Of course he does. :deal

When has a fighter who wants a legacy not needed a top 30 to 40 ATG PFP fighter to add to his resume?

i agree with you, wat i dont understand is the scrutiny that RJ & Bernard gets from Calzaghe fans, who say that they beat up bums. Or Bclass fighters whichever one you choose. But yet Calzaghe is doing the same thing and they love him, and he is doing it in a less impressive fashion that BHOP and most certainly RJ. I dont understand that

[jc]

After Calzaghe beats kessler i dont think he will NEED Hopkins at all. yes it would be nice to beat a name like Bernard Hopkins but as he is 43 i cant see anybody giving Calzaghe the credit he deserves for such a victory.

i think he would probably get more props for fighting the winner of Taylor-Pavlik... or even younger chamnpion like a Dawson or an Erdei (who some consider linear champ).

Id like to see Joe in with X still but it was a much better fight 5 ro 6 years ago...its a shame hopkins avoided him really.

[Boinko]

After Calzaghe beats kessler i dont think he will NEED Hopkins at all. yes it would be nice to beat a name like Bernard Hopkins but as he is 43 i cant see anybody giving Calzaghe the credit he deserves for such a victory.

i think he would probably get more props for fighting the winner of Taylor-Pavlik... or even younger chamnpion like a Dawson or an Erdei (who some consider linear champ).

Id like to see Joe in with X still but it was a much better fight 5 ro 6 years ago...its a shame hopkins avoided him really.

I agree. If Joe beats Kessler, he won't need a victory over an old and slow Hopkins on his resume.
Besides, like I've mentioned in other threads, if he beats Bernard, no one is going to give him any credit. They'll just go on about how he beat an old man.
It's a no win situation for Calzaghe (well, except from a financial point of view - then it's win/win!)

[acb]

I just dont get your perspectives at all. Of course you want his name on your resume.

First off, you can counter argue that he had just come off of wins over two top 10 P4P fighters and the old arguement becomes mute.

And say that it was an old Bernard, even so its a great name on his resume. I can see wanting him to fight the winner of Taylor and Pavlick, but thats ABSOLUTELY the only fight I would take over Bernard if Im Joe, his management, or his fans.

[Smazz20]

I don't think either of them need one another. However, either mans resume would be majorly boosted by having the others name on it. BHOP beating Calzaghe would put him clearly ahead of Jones. Calzaghe beating BHOP would give him HOF and possibly ATG status.

[Boinko]

I just dont get your perspectives at all. Of course you want his name on your resume.

First off, you can counter argue that he had just come off of wins over two top 10 P4P fighters and the old arguement becomes mute.

And say that it was an old Bernard, even so its a great name on his resume. I can see wanting him to fight the winner of Taylor and Pavlick, but thats ABSOLUTELY the only fight I would take over Bernard if Im Joe, his management, or his fans.

Yes, but you know as well as I do that should he beat Hopkins, his victory will be totally downplayed as being a mostly pointless win over an old man.
You'll just get a lot of guys screaming "a prime Hopkins would kill Calzaghe."
I believe it's a win that will end up proving very little.

[acb]

Yes, but you know as well as I do that should he beat Hopkins, his victory will be totally downplayed as being a mostly pointless win over an old man.
You'll just get a lot of guys screaming "a prime Hopkins would kill Calzaghe."
I believe it's a win that will end up proving very little.

Ok but this is what I would do. Joe isnt a young fighter anymore. Get the Hopkins fight made, and then go for the Pavlick vs. Taylor winner. That way, he could make a hell of a run with Kessler, Bernard, and Taylor-Pavlick and go down in boxing lore accordingly. Right now, his accomplishments dont match his talent and skill level. But run off those names, and he is golden :yep

[brooklyn1550]

Agreed

[Boinko]

Ok but this is what I would do. Joe isnt a young fighter anymore. Get the Hopkins fight made, and then go for the Pavlick vs. Taylor winner. That way, he could make a hell of a run with Kessler, Bernard, and Taylor-Pavlick and go down in boxing lore accordingly. Right now, his accomplishments dont match his talent and skill level. But run off those names, and he is golden :yep

Or, just go straight for the Pavlk/Taylor winner. And that should be enough to secure a very strong legacy, because I really believe he won't be given much credit for a win over Hopkins.
I suspect most of the people on here who are calling for Calzaghe/Hopkins with the belief that Bernard will win, will be the same people calling a Calzaghe win a pointless victory over an old man. But $$$ rules, so it'll probably happen regardless.

[The Hitman]

I'm a big fan of Calzaghe and his talk about only wanting the big fights nowadays is great. Kessler is the best possible start to the that, but IMO it has to be either B-Hop or Pavlik/Taylor in his next fight. The Calzaghe haters will say he beat a washed-up fighter or a blown up- middleweight if he wins depending on which fight is made but I still think they are great fights for him, and more importantly winnable fights for him also.

There can be no more Manfredo's for Joe now, and no more alphabet mandatories either. If they want to take his belt, they can have it. Everyone knows he is champ regardless. However I feel is a little too eager to break the record for world title defences which is a shame as fighting handpicked WBO bums will harm his legacy more than breaking Joe Louis' record will help it.

[deram]

Current staus:

Hopkins has a good resume, but the big minus is that he has never beaten a credible boxer above 160. And many will claim he has never even beat a good boxer at 160. In other words his best wins are over LMWs.

Calzaghe is the longest reigning champ and has a good resume if he beats Kessler. His bests wins are against two guys that were dominant champions in the same weight - Kessler and Eubanks.

_____________

Hopkins needs one thing. A win aginst a good fighter as big as himself or bigger. That will always be a criticism of Hopkins and Hopkins should be crying to get Calzaghe to figh him just for the chance.

Calzaghe could mainly do with a win against bigger men. He will have nothing more to prove against fighters of his own size. Everyone knows Hopkins is not bigger than Calzaghe in any way shape or form. Plus there is a little problem with Calzaghe winning over old fighters - although a win over Kessler would pretty much dispell that. Dawson, Erdei etc. are naturally bigger and not old.

Overall, A win over Calzaghe (if he can beat Kessler) would do absolute wonders for Hopkins. A win over (really, really) old Hopkins would not make a lot of difference if he can beat Kessler.

[PH|LLA]

Hopkins would be better off fighting Chad Dawson than Calzaghe.

Calzaghe doesn't really need hopkins, but he does need him more than the other way around.

Anyways getting past Kessler is a big if

[Dekkers]

I don't think either of them need one another. However, either mans resume would be majorly boosted by having the others name on it. BHOP beating Calzaghe would put him clearly ahead of Jones. Calzaghe beating BHOP would give him HOF and possibly ATG status.

I don't think he's going to get much credit, if he doesn't get credit for beating a 32 year old Eubank, why would he get credit for beating Hopkins who'd be over a decade older when they fought?

BHOP would get credit for beating Calzaghe, but not the other way round.

[thesandman]

Deram.. you're a fucking tool

If Winky Wright or Antonio Tarver are not credible boxers (above 160) - then who is?

I agree with him.

Tarver looked like shit against Hopkins. And apparently in his last fight too (I haven't seen that one).

He has always been hit and miss really, and he's what, 37, 38??

Winky is definitely a credible boxer at 160 or below. Above 160? I don't think so really. How many other fights has he had at that weight?

Hopkins should fight somebody decent, young and hungry at 175 if he wants to stake his claim as being the best at 175, rather than clinging to the Ring belt bullshit. Getting guys to step up 2 weight divisions, or fighting other old men doesn't do it for me.

[Dekkers]

I agree with him.

Tarver looked like shit against Hopkins. And apparently in his last fight too (I haven't seen that one).

He has always been hit and miss really, and he's what, 37, 38??

Winky is definitely a credible boxer at 160 or below. Above 160? I don't think so really. How many other fights has he had at that weight?

Hopkins should fight somebody decent, young and hungry at 175 if he wants to stake his claim as being the best at 175, rather than clinging to the Ring belt bullshit. Getting guys to step up 2 weight divisions, or fighting other old men doesn't do it for me.
There are fighters at 175 that can beat him, I'd take Dawson over him, even if Dawson loses to Diaconu, i'd still pick Dawson over him.

[thesandman]

There are fighters at 175 that can beat him, I'd take Dawson over him, even if Dawson loses to Diaconu, i'd still pick Dawson over him.

There are half a dozen guys I'd like to see him fight at 175.

Fuck,

Dawson, Adamek, Briggs, hell, even Danny Green (Green would probably lose, but he'd give it a good shot).

Shit, anyone that's a natural at that weight and won't give up if Hopkins fights dirty. Those guys are naturally bigger than Hopkins and wouldn't take a backward step.

Guys that make him fight 3 minutes a round.

[Dekkers]

There are half a dozen guys I'd like to see him fight at 175.

Fuck,

Dawson, Adamek, Briggs, hell, even Danny Green (Green would probably lose, but he'd give it a good shot).

Shit, anyone that's a natural at that weight and won't give up if Hopkins fights dirty. Those guys are naturally bigger than Hopkins and wouldn't take a backward step.

Guys that make him fight 3 minutes a round.

Briggs looked terrible in his last fight, but he definitely has a shot if he gets back to his best. Adamek's gone to cruiser, light heavy is emptying out a bit, haven't seen much of Erdei so I can't really comment about his chances either.

[thesandman]

Briggs looked terrible in his last fight, but he definitely has a shot if he gets back to his best. Adamek's gone to cruiser, light heavy is emptying out a bit, haven't seen much of Erdei so I can't really comment about his chances either.

Yeah, I knew about Adamek - I was kind of speculating he might make weight once more if a fight against Hopkins came about.

Didn't see Briggs last fight, but he's definitely someone who wouldn't care less how rough Hopkins wanted to be.

Just shits me how Hopkins is using the Ring belt as a seniors tour/business tool for middleweights. And people can't see past it.

[RUSKULL]

"Calzaghe Needs Bernard more than Bernard needs Calzaghe"

No way. Hopkins still isn't exactly an exciting fighter nor is he a household name with the casual fans.

Joe can sell out arenas in the UK and these guys are "prizefighters" after all. They fight for money and Joe is the bigger draw by far.

I could see your point when you concider a fighter's legacy, but that doesn't put bread on the table, plain & simple.

[RUSKULL]

BHOP would get credit for beating Calzaghe, but not the other way round.

Exactly, and that isn't even as big as the monetary reason IMO. Hopkins should beg to fight Calzagne in England, wales, Scotland or wherever the fuck Joe wants to fight.

[thesandman]

No way. Hopkins still isn't exactly an exciting fighter nor is he a household name with the casual fans.

Joe can sell out arenas in the UK and these guys are "prizefighters" after all. They fight for money and Joe is the bigger draw by far.

I could see your point when you concider a fighter's legacy, but that doesn't put bread on the table, plain & simple.
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Exactly, and that isn't even as big as the monetary reason IMO. Hopkins should beg to fight Calzagne in England, wales, Scotland or wherever the fuck Joe wants to fight.

Has somebody stolen your account? That's twice in a day I agree with you....

[PH|LLA]

There are half a dozen guys I'd like to see him fight at 175.

Fuck,

Dawson, Adamek, Briggs, hell, even Danny Green (Green would probably lose, but he'd give it a good shot).

Shit, anyone that's a natural at that weight and won't give up if Hopkins fights dirty. Those guys are naturally bigger than Hopkins and wouldn't take a backward step.

Guys that make him fight 3 minutes a round.
noone can make Hopkins fight 3 minutes a round.

[thesandman]

noone can make Hopkins fight 3 minutes a round.

Obviously 37 year olds can't, or fat middleweights.

It's yet to be seen if somebody under 35 and in their natural weight can or not.


Hopkins IMO WAS a fantastic fighter. But his last couple of fights have really shown how carefully he chooses his opponents now. Especially after admitting the whole weigh in thing was nothing more than a bit of amateur dramatics.

[David UK]

Current staus:

Hopkins has a good resume, but the big minus is that he has never beaten a credible boxer above 160. And many will claim he has never even beat a good boxer at 160. In other words his best wins are over LMWs.

Calzaghe is the longest reigning champ and has a good resume if he beats Kessler. His bests wins are against two guys that were dominant champions in the same weight - Kessler and Eubanks.

_____________

Hopkins needs one thing. A win aginst a good fighter as big as himself or bigger. That will always be a criticism of Hopkins and Hopkins should be crying to get Calzaghe to figh him just for the chance.

Calzaghe could mainly do with a win against bigger men. He will have nothing more to prove against fighters of his own size. Everyone knows Hopkins is not bigger than Calzaghe in any way shape or form. Plus there is a little problem with Calzaghe winning over old fighters - although a win over Kessler would pretty much dispell that. Dawson, Erdei etc. are naturally bigger and not old.

Overall, A win over Calzaghe (if he can beat Kessler) would do absolute wonders for Hopkins. A win over (really, really) old Hopkins would not make a lot of difference if he can beat Kessler.

Excellent post which sums up the situation perfectly.

[DanePugilist]

None of them needs the other, other than to fill their pockets.