Hey everyone who was the better striker prime for prime ? crocop or Anderson ?

[boxingcar]

In a different thread.
I was claiming that a prime crocop was (prime for prime) way better than Anderson Silva. My reasons ? Because he was more powerful , faster (with his kicks). I even said tht he had more technic. And that he was more accurate (with his kicks). Sounds stupid on my part uh ?....anyway , that's my opinion.

I admited that crocop was also a rather inconsistent fighter (his fight vs Gonzaga , Randleman & Mcdonald are perfect examples) I'd even add that he can be mentally weak at times.

Having said all that , my point is that when this guy is (was) at the top of his game. He was the best striker in mma. And Anderson wasn't in his league (even though Anderson is pretty good too)

and so , anyway...

fightfan312 responded the following:

That could be the most inaccurate statement i have read in a long long time on here:patsch

here's the original post
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Note: I even posted "You can't even compare. they're world's apart"
Ok , so that's an exaggeration.

And i even admited it , here
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with that out of the way....Let's compare shall we ?
Anderon silva vs leben (short finish , great striking)
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Crocop vs Hug
(note: there's a huge fucking difference between hug & leben)
So it's not a quick finish...but just observe the technic of these two
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Anderson Silva vs Franklin
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(great and dominant KO finish)

Crocop vs Wanderlei
part 1
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part 2
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Anderson silva vs Carlos Newton (great TKO finish)
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Crocop vs Bernardo
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Anderson silva vs Marquardt
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Crocop vs Barnett (huge shot to the body , that was in the owgp)
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I'm not gonna post His fight vs Igor because you've all seen it so many times already..

There used to be a point when crocop was number in the top hw rankings.
Don't linger on the past that's what i often say but it's still no reason to totally erase it from your memory.

Yes , a very inconsistent fighter but one of the most dangerous striker in mma. Anderson is a better champion now. But prime for prime , Crocop was the better striker.

If this sounds like a chidlish thread...It is... :lol:

[boxingcar]

this was your exact quote


In the striking department , Crocop > silva by far. Prime crocop ? You can't even compare. they're world's apart. speed , power , technic , accuracy...one truely amazing kickboxer. Who had his weaknesses for sure.

i said no way is crocop so much better you cant even compare in all those categories. he is not so much better in all those categories you call them worlds apart.
You don't need to panic (just teasing you)..Anyone can check the original thread . And just to make a few things clear...Prime for prime (if we take his inconsistency out of the way) , a top crocop was way better.

of course that's my opinion and just based on my observation.
Ground / wrestling...Look what he did to Josh Barnett (Anderson never had to deal with a wrestler like Barnett cause there's no such thing in the LHW or in his own division.

not to mention his sub defense was one of the very best in mma (post 2003 era , when he was still training with werdum) , just watch his fight vs fedor.

I'm not saying that anderson sucks or anything. I think he's brilliant. Just that when crocop was at the top of his career , he was imo , obviously better. but it is easier to only remember the croatian as that guy who got brutally koed by gonzaga & randleman.

ps: obviously anderson's BJJ is better than crocop's

[Koa]

Pure striking, I don't think there can be much argument against Crocop. He was after all a world class kickboxer who was among the best in the world at his weight class for a time. He had probably the most lethal left leg lb for lb in the world for quite a while.

Anderson Silva's striking shines because he is very well rounded with emphasis on striking. Where Crocop could really do nothing more than strike and a little gnp.

[SkillsSoSmooth]

Anderson is better, end of story, the flamboyant way of which he dispaches his opponants with his deadly accurate strikes make him one of the greatest ever at the art, the man rarely misses and when he puts the combos together there is no better sight in MMA today fullstop, spinning backhands, flying knees ect the man adds everything into his attacks, and that's what makes him so dangerous and why he's pound for pound number one right now.

[québecwarrior]

Anderson is better, end of story, the flamboyant way of which he dispaches his opponants with his deadly accurate strikes make him one of the greatest ever at the art, the man rarely misses and when he puts the combos together there is no better sight in MMA today fullstop, spinning backhands, flying knees ect the man adds everything into his attacks, and that's what makes him so dangerous and why he's pound for pound number one right now.
do you think Anderson would beat a Prime Cro Crop on his best night?

[TheH1tMan]

Any long time fan of mma will know that it is crocop. Anderson is good, but crocop is probably the only fighter that would have had a chance of beating Fedor if Fedor was 10% less. Crocop in his prime was great and he is ATG.

For new fans and in particular fans that swallow the media hype from Dana White's machine.. Anderson will seem like the best. 'Skillssosmooth' is either a very recent fan or working for Dana White.

But hey hopefully most people know what is real.

[Koa]

Anderson is better, end of story, the flamboyant way of which he dispaches his opponants with his deadly accurate strikes make him one of the greatest ever at the art, the man rarely misses and when he puts the combos together there is no better sight in MMA today fullstop, spinning backhands, flying knees ect the man adds everything into his attacks, and that's what makes him so dangerous and why he's pound for pound number one right now. Nah. Part of what makes Anderson so damned good is that he is well rounded. If he were just a striker, he wouldn't have the same record. He would have been destroyed by guys like Henderson, Lutter and Marquardt would have been the end of him. That he is so well rounded is what makes him so good. Crocop relied on simply stuffing takedowns and knocking peoples heads off, and he did a fantastic job at that for quite a while. Not saying Silva isn't a great striker, but Crocop was world class. Silva is freaking good, but a step below.

[karatekid530]

crocop's prime was his kickboxing years. hard to compare.

[SkillsSoSmooth]

do you think Anderson would beat a Prime Cro Crop on his best night?

A prime crop-cop wasn't unbeatable, i think it's high time some of ya'll realise who Silva is, because you'd think i'm comparing Dan Henderson to these guys you lot are going on about (Crop-cop and Fedor), yes they were fantastic fighters back in the day but it's Silva's time now, people need to accept that and move on.

[québecwarrior]

A prime crop-cop wasn't unbeatable, i think it's high time some of ya'll realise who Silva is, because you'd think i'm comparing Dan Henderson to these guys you lot of going on about (Crop-cop and Fedor), yes they were fantastic fighters back in the day but it's Silva's time now, people need to accept that and move on.
back in the day?
Fedor still didnt lost..He is undefeated in + 30 fights..do you realise that..???He just beat a former champ of UFC in 36 seconds ...do you realise that???

[ufoalf]

back in the day?
Fedor still didnt lost..He is undefeated in + 30 fights..do you realise that..???He just beat a former champ of UFC in 36 seconds ...do you realise that???
But Silva is NOW, Fedor is done, he's days are gona and in the past. Silva is the future! He's 33 and Fedor is 31! oh wait...

Of course he doesn't.

He doesn't realize that it would take any champion same amount of time to beat some amateur. Fedor destroyed him in time it takes to beat an amatuer without a KO punch.

[québecwarrior]

But Silva is NOW, Fedor is done, he's days are gona and in the past. Silva is the future! He's 33 and Fedor is 31! oh wait...

Of course he doesn't.
:hey :lol:

[Polymath]

Cro Cops kickboxing pedigree is pretty much unrivalled in MMA. Mrk hunt is another who comes to mind.

A.S. is a great striker in his own right but yes, just not the same level.

[Koa]

A prime crop-cop wasn't unbeatable, i think it's high time some of ya'll realise who Silva is, because you'd think i'm comparing Dan Henderson to these guys you lot of going on about (Crop-cop and Fedor), yes they were fantastic fighters back in the day but it's Silva's time now, people need to accept that and move on. ?? This isn't about who and now. The thread title is who was better prime for prime.

[SkillsSoSmooth]

back in the day?
Fedor still didnt lost..He is undefeated in + 30 fights..do you realise that..???He just beat a former champ of UFC in 36 seconds ...do you realise that???

Quit crying because someone disagrees with you, it's not a good look.

[SkillsSoSmooth]

But Silva is NOW, Fedor is done, he's days are gona and in the past. Silva is the future! He's 33 and Fedor is 31! oh wait...

Of course he doesn't.

He doesn't realize that it would take any champion same amount of time to beat some amateur. Fedor destroyed him in time it takes to beat an amatuer without a KO punch.

Sucking Feds balls again? :roll: , oh yeah i get it, everyone peaks at the same time!!, :patsch , when people keep going on about Cops and Feds fights that happened 5 years ago what the hell do you expect?, look at Feds last 3 or 4 opponants, are they the same quality as they were back in the day?, erm NO.

[jimmie]

Cro Cop has better kicks but he has nothing on Andersons clinch,elbows,knees,punches,speed,footwork,combos or the chin.

[ufoalf]

This guy is the reason I hate sherdog. No reason, just bunch of emotions spurring out like a little child. Wouldn't be surprised if he's 14 or so.

[québecwarrior]

This guy is the reason I hate sherdog. No reason, just bunch of emotions spurring out like a little child. Wouldn't be surprised if he's 14 or so.
I go on the sherdog forum like one time a week..like 15 minutes because my head is gonna explose with all the idocy there..

[SkillsSoSmooth]

This guy is the reason I hate sherdog. No reason, just bunch of emotions spurring out like a little child. Wouldn't be surprised if he's 14 or so.

Run out of counter arguments to put forth so your reduced to talking about some wack ass forum i don't even have the first clue about?, brilliant. :good

[sugarngold]

This is really a loaded question. Who is the better striker in what way? Silva is the more dynamic striker. Crocop is the more powerful striker with devastating one kick KO power.

[Koa]

This is really a loaded question. Who is the better striker in what way? Silva is the more dynamic striker. Crocop is the more powerful striker with devastating one kick KO power. I don't even know about that. Crocop with his southpaw style was quite dynamic with the way he had shown setup kicks and left crosses in his arsenal. You guard the head, he could throw a kick to the liver to set up the head kick, or just use the liver kick as a stand alone destroyer. This is where being a southpaw alone increases whatever you might call dynamicism. Just as Silva may be considered dynamic with his knees, but something as simple as taking away his height advantage away can nullify his knees, as we saw happen with some of Wanderlei's fights.

[sugarngold]

I don't even know about that. Crocop with his southpaw style was quite dynamic with the way he had shown setup kicks and left crosses in his arsenal. You guard the head, he could throw a kick to the liver to set up the head kick, or just use the liver kick as a stand alone destroyer. This is where being a southpaw alone increases whatever you might call dynamicism. Just as Silva may be considered dynamic with his knees, but something as simple as taking away his height advantage away can nullify his knees, as we saw happen with some of Wanderlei's fights.

Exhibit A. 2:55 in.

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[Koa]

In MMA, you cant pull off half of what Silva gets away with unless people respect your ground game. Do we need to go through Crocop highlights to show off his abilities? His loss to Nog was one of the most painful fights I have ever watched, Heath Herring is another.

Crocop relied almost purely on stuffing takedowns and creating offense off of his offense. Its a lot harder to to into an MMA fight and have success with little more than kickboxing ability, than it is to go into MMA as a well rounded fighter.

You wouldn't expect a dynamic puncher like Tommy Hearns to do extremely well in MMA with his skillset, but folks would likely call Chuck Liddel the better puncher of the two, since his style allows him to get away with more.

[curmudgeon]

back in the day?
Fedor still didnt lost..He is undefeated in + 30 fights..do you realise that..???He just beat a former champ of UFC in 36 seconds ...do you realise that???

He does not. He is a dick sucking moron.

[Sweet Pea]

Anderson is the better MMA striker. Cro Cop was probably more successful in K-1 than Anderson would've been though.

[scurlaruntings]

Its semantic really. Peoples memeorys are very shallow and they only tend to remember what is current. When Silva was in CR and fighting for PRIDE he was known for his vicious knees and his striking. Carlos Newton anyone? But by the same token he was a relaltive unknown and CC was far more popular because of his highlight reel KO`s and his rep from the K1. Plus being a heavyweight his striking was that much more devastating. Remember his KO of Igor anyone? Essentially though there diffrent types of strikers so its a fairly moot point.

Prime for prime though id have to say CC as that was his bread and butter.

[Koa]

Anderson is the better MMA striker. Cro Cop was probably more successful in K-1 than Anderson would've been though.

I disagree.. I think if Crocop were as good on the ground as Anderson, he would have 1/4 of the losses on his record, possibly even fewer.

The only reason Anderson is a better MMA striker is because he has good ground game and isn't super cautious about being taken to the ground. When Crocop fights other strikers without much worry about being taken down, he has been absolutely dominant and brutal.

[sugarngold]

In MMA, you cant pull off half of what Silva gets away with unless people respect your ground game. Do we need to go through Crocop highlights to show off his abilities? His loss to Nog was one of the most painful fights I have ever watched, Heath Herring is another.

Crocop relied almost purely on stuffing takedowns and creating offense off of his offense. Its a lot harder to to into an MMA fight and have success with little more than kickboxing ability, than it is to go into MMA as a well rounded fighter.

You wouldn't expect a dynamic puncher like Tommy Hearns to do extremely well in MMA with his skillset, but folks would likely call Chuck Liddel the better puncher of the two, since his style allows him to get away with more.
The reason I say that Silva is more dynamic is because he seems to use more striking tools than Crocop. I've never seen Crocop throw so much as one elbow and rarely see him throw knees.

That said - I don't want to say either one was a better striker than the other because they both had great success fighting in their own inimitable style.

[codeman99998]

Silva is #1 p4p striker in mma, possibly in history. It's hard to find his MT record online, but it seems like he has only lost maybe three MT fights ever, with 2 being to Pele.

Silva is absolutely terrifying standing, I think moreso than Crocop.

Sure, as you all say, he is also very well rounded, but let's not pretend he has good striking that he uses to take the fight to the ground or something. Anderson wants the fight on his feet, and that's where he usually keeps it.

[codeman99998]

I would be willing to bet that three years ago, you and many of A. Silva's new fan base had no idea who he even was.

Even if that were true, and I'm not defending the dude or anything, but times have changed a bit man.

The internet is magic for information. You could watch nearly every fight Pride and the UFC has ever produced in the span of 2 or 3 weeks if you tried hard enough.

[Koa]

Both are very good, with Crocop starting off as a world class striker, being better than Anderson by a bit.

I don't buy the more dynamic striker in that Muay Thai is all about using elbows and knees. It may be the better overall discipline, but within respective styles I would say Crocop was a more accomplished and recognized Kickboxer than Silva is a Muay Thai fighter.

In the end, if Crocop was worth half a shit on the ground, there would only be one guy better than him in the world at heavy, his striking would be more dangerous as well coupled with a respectable ground game.

Crocop was nearly a world beater with his striking alone, that needs to be recognized and respected. If Silva sucked balls on the ground, he would have lost a crapload of fights.

[sugarngold]

Both are very good, with Crocop starting off as a world class striker, being better than Anderson by a bit.

I don't buy the more dynamic striker in that Muay Thai is all about using elbows and knees. It may be the better overall discipline, but within respective styles I would say Crocop was a more accomplished and recognized Kickboxer than Silva is a Muay Thai fighter.

In the end, if Crocop was worth half a shit on the ground, there would only be one guy better than him in the world at heavy, his striking would be more dangerous as well coupled with a respectable ground game.

Crocop was nearly a world beater with his striking alone, that needs to be recognized and respected. If Silva sucked balls on the ground, he would have lost a crapload of fights.
Hey, bro, we're just arguing over semantics here. I agree with you on almost all counts. Crocop was easily the most feared striker to come through MMA in ages. He was a world beater and if it hadn't been for Noguiera and Fedor - he would have been Pride Heavyweight Champ for years.

[Koa]

Hey, bro, we're just arguing over semantics here. I agree with you on almost all counts. Crocop was easily the most feared striker to come through MMA in ages. He was a world beater and if it hadn't been for Noguiera and Fedor - he would have been Pride Heavyweight Champ for years.

Guess so. I'm more saying a good bit of Andersons game is backed up by him being more than sound on the ground.

On the same note, I have to say I cant really think of many fighters that would have a prayer against him at standup in MMA, lightheavy included. The big difference is that Crocop was a worldclass striker comming into MMA and he was able to use those skills stand alone for the most part.

Take away Anderson Silva's ground game and there is no way he would have the same success, or be able to get away with the same sort of game plan he has when he fights. He doesn't have to fight constantly worrying about the takedown like Crocop did. So yeah, in a sense it makes his MMA striking better, for MMA.. But pure striking toe to toe lb for lb? Crocop was already top 5 on the planet. Can Silva claim the same?

[SkillsSoSmooth]

He does not. He is a dick sucking moron.

Don't confuse me with your Momma. :hi:

[Minotauro]

Cro Cop was an elite K1 striker when K1 had some of the best heavys like Hoost, Aerts, Lebanner and Hug. You can't say who would win between the two the size difference is a fair amount and Anderson ain't no Kiatsongrit where he can beat the best heavy despite weighing less then 180lbs most of the time.

[billyconn]

Guess so. I'm more saying a good bit of Andersons game is backed up by him being more than sound on the ground.

On the same note, I have to say I cant really think of many fighters that would have a prayer against him at standup in MMA, lightheavy included. The big difference is that Crocop was a worldclass striker comming into MMA and he was able to use those skills stand alone for the most part.

Take away Anderson Silva's ground game and there is no way he would have the same success, or be able to get away with the same sort of game plan he has when he fights. He doesn't have to fight constantly worrying about the takedown like Crocop did. So yeah, in a sense it makes his MMA striking better, for MMA.. But pure striking toe to toe lb for lb? Crocop was already top 5 on the planet. Can Silva claim the same?

I agree Anderson fights very confidently on his feet....Cro-Cop often seemed to fight like he was on the edge of a pool and he couldn't swim.....

[ghost123]

Crocop was better. He was competing in K1 long before he was in MMA. If you ever watch K1 from the era he was there, you'd know that it was stacked pretty heavily.