Ezzard Charles or Ali - Who had...

[Russell]

A better record against high level competition...? And why?

Thoughts and opinions?

[dmt]

Ali had less loses vs top flight comp but some of his fights were close and debatable

on the other hand Charles was on the wrong end of some decisions- in particular his fight with Harold Johnson which i think he deserved- and a contro loss to Elmer Ray

Charles defeated fighers who were greater in a p4p sense

[Manassa]

Charles. I once did a detailed comparison but it was lost in the crash.

[dmt]

Archie Moore for example in a p4p sense is easily greater the Liston, Foreman, Frazier etc

but Ali's comp was awesome, best of any heavyweight

[Street Lethal]

Ali's record is amazing, with victories over Moore, Liston, Patterson, Williams, Folley, Terrell, Frazier, Foster, Norton, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and many other top light heavyweights and heavyweights. He never lost in his prime. Between 1960 and 1977, he only lost twice, to two of the best heavyweights at the time, and he avenged both of these defeats twice over. He took on all comers and he was never knocked out. I like Charles a lot, but Ali's record is better.

[Manassa]

The thing is with Ali, a lot of his opponents have been overrated just because they fought him. Zora Folley, for instance, or Oscar Bonavena - solid fighters, but no more special than Del Flanagan or Shorty Hogue and probably not as good as Sandro Mazzinghi or Virgil Atkins. But somehow we feel obliged to mention them on Ali's resume as though they hold a massive amount of water as top flight opponents. They were good, but not really good. You thought Jerry Quarry and Ron Lyle were really good? Watch Enrique Bolanos or George Araujo and you'll see that they're easily as good, yet you wouldn't necessarily hold them in as high esteem.

[Ezzard]

IMO only Greb and Langford have better records than Charles

[janitor]

A better record against high level competition...? And why?

Thoughts and opinions?

At heavyweight it is Ali.

Pound for pound it is Charles no contest.

[Minotauro]

Pound for pound I would have to say that Ezzard has the greater victory to win every fight in a trilogy against Moore is greater then 2.1 against Frazier and Norton plus he beat almost everyone on the black murders row. Also Charles is normally regarded as the greatest Light heavyweight of all time despite never winning the title, which shows the calibre of his win. Only Greb has better wins maybe Langford but nobody else.

[janitor]

Also Charles is normally regarded as the greatest Light heavyweight of all time despite never winning the title, which shows the calibre of his win.

How many fighters have been regarded as the best ever in their class without wining a title?

Some lone voices argued that Peter Jackson and Sam Langford were close to their peaks.

Mr Charles seems to be something special in this regard.

[McGrain]

Charles. I once did a detailed comparison but it was lost in the crash.

I remember that; that was the first thread of yours I took a real interest in. Excellent stuff.

[Manassa]

I remember that; that was the first thread of yours I took a real interest in. Excellent stuff.

Thank you.