What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

[ChrisPontius]

Both all time greats, Sugar Ray Robinson has the better legacy and ability of the two.

So what in what area would you say is Leonard better than Robinson, or at least his equal? Defence?

[DaveTheWave]

Being elusive. Robinson took alot more punches then Leonard. He matches handspeed. Chin is also close.

[Duodenum]

Both all time greats, Sugar Ray Robinson has the better legacy and ability of the two.

So what in what area would you say is Leonard better than Robinson, or at least his equal? Defence?It's a tough question, and I can only suggest possible answers which may or may not be true.

Ray Leonard may have been physically stronger, and perhaps a better infighter than Robby, but to suggest SRL was superior to Robinson in any respect might be pushing the envelope. The right uppercut which SRL used against Davey Boy Green is better than any uppercut I've seen Robby display in any footage I've seen of his, but that's a very limited amount of film out of his 201 matches. SRL also dropped Benitez with a fine uppercut in the 15th round of their match. With Robby, it seems that overhand rights and hooks are more prominent than uppercuts.

It may be that Ray Leonard was more adept at circling right than Robinson was. Few orthodox boxers of any era circled counter-clockwise more than SRL and Larry Holmes. I'd need to view more of both boxers in action, and think about it a bit.

[Titan1]

Both all time greats, Sugar Ray Robinson has the better legacy and ability of the two.

So what in what area would you say is Leonard better than Robinson, or at least his equal? Defence?

Manipulating things to his advantage as far as fights, and other circumstances.

[hdog]

I'd go with Leonard's lateral movement as well.

[Drew101]

Leonard was more elusive, and maybe suprior in terms of his use of lateral movement. Also, SRL seemed to be more consistant than Robinson throughout the later rounds of his fights. I can't think of too many occasions where Leonard faded in the championship rounds (I guess the Hagler fight would be an exception), while Robinson did suffer some later round fades in a few of his bouts.

[redrooster]

Leonard was more elusive, and maybe suprior in terms of his use of lateral movement. Also, SRL seemed to be more consistant than Robinson throughout the later rounds of his fights. I can't think of too many occasions where Leonard faded in the championship rounds (I guess the Hagler fight would be an exception), while Robinson did suffer some later round fades in a few of his bouts.

:lol: :rofl

[achillesthegreat]

Leonard had better footwork and defence. I think Robinson had the edge offensively.

[McGrain]

Possibly none. I disagree strongly with chin - they were both around the same size but Robinson took many more shots at 160 because he fought there much more - certainly he's proved the better chin, let's say that.

Speed? Perhaps in literal terms, but in functional terms? I'm reminded of the scene in Unforgiven where Gene Hackmen explains about speed v accuracy. I think SRR punched as fast as could ever be called sensible and if Leonard edges him in this department (i'm not convinced) it is at the expense of accuracy. SRR made the punches go where they needed to.

Physical strength? Again, possible, but SRR is once more the guy who's proved it sharing clinches with naturally bigger men.

Elusive is a good shout, but SRR spends a lot more time in the danger zone firing so perhaps that's a little disingenuos. Can anyone think of a fight where SRR's primary goal was to remain out of range as a rule? Maybe.

[Drew101]

:lol: :rofl

That's right, Rooster...I was joking.:D

Leonard gets obliterated by your hero...Billy Backus.::good

[Silver]

Possibly none. I disagree strongly with chin - they were both around the same size but Robinson took many more shots at 160 because he fought there much more - certainly he's proved the better chin, let's say that.

Speed? Perhaps in literal terms, but in functional terms? I'm reminded of the scene in Unforgiven where Gene Hackmen explains about speed v accuracy. I think SRR punched as fast as could ever be called sensible and if Leonard edges him in this department (i'm not convinced) it is at the expense of accuracy. SRR made the punches go where they needed to.

Physical strength? Again, possible, but SRR is once more the guy who's proved it sharing clinches with naturally bigger men.

Elusive is a good shout, but SRR spends a lot more time in the danger zone firing so perhaps that's a little disingenuos. Can anyone think of a fight where SRR's primary goal was to remain out of range as a rule? Maybe.you brought up a good point. srr was more agressive then srl, so by mindset alone, srr was easier to find when comparing the two.

[la-califa]

Killer instinct. When Leonard had a fighter hurt, he attacked with a vengence! When Robinson hurt a guy, he stept up the assault & the knockout would usually come. But Leonard really went after a stricken opponent.

[Holmes' Jab]

I'd say footwork and overall speed, including handspeed slightly. Robinson put his punches where they needed to go better though.

:good

[fists of fury]

Killer instinct. When Leonard had a fighter hurt, he attacked with a vengence! When Robinson hurt a guy, he stept up the assault & the knockout would usually come. But Leonard really went after a stricken opponent.

I don't know about that. Watch the second Turpin fight, or the 'St Valentine's Day Massacre' (Lamotta) or the Jean Stock fight when Robinson was a welterweight.
Robinson was a vicious finisher.

[Nemesis]

What could Leonard do better than Robinson
?

Snorting cocaine, apparently

[Sonny's jab]

Retire.

Robinson only managed two in his entire career.
Leonard retired at least 5 or 6 times.

[hdog]

Showboat in the ring. Leonard could be pretty obnoxious with the taunting, posing, etc. Robinson was all business.

[pjo479]

thrill the crowd

[McGrain]

thrill the crowd

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?


Depends on how much you like boxing i guess!

The bottom line is it's like comparing the original to the forgary - Leonard compares favourabley to every other fighter in and around his class in one or more departments i'm sure

[Drew101]

you brought up a good point. srr was more agressive then srl, so by mindset alone, srr was easier to find when comparing the two.

Ah, but even when Leonard was being the aggressor, or when SRR was in boxer mode, SRL tended to be a bit more elusive. It's not like Leonard was vastly superior to Robinson in this category, but he does edge it, in my opinion.

I still stand by my asserion that Robinson was more inclined throughout his career to suffer fades in the later rounds of his fights. But, then again, he had eight times as many fights as Leonard, so there are more likely to be a few more late round comebacks by his opponents on his record.

[McGrain]

I still stand by my asserion that Robinson was more inclined throughout his career to suffer fades in the later rounds of his fights. But, then again, he had eight times as many fights as Leonard, so there are more likely to be a few more late round comebacks by his opponents on his record.

That's fair minded post Drew.

I'd also say that SRR fought more frequently and prepared less "professionally".

As far as his stamina goes, his workrate for the St.Valentines Day Massacre was astonishing, and he did it whilst under pressure and whilst taking serious bodyshots.