80's heavies vs. today

[Cruiser1]

I remember a few years back somebody posted mythical matchups between heavyweights from the 80's and now. The fighters used back then were guys like Vitali, Rahman, Toney, and Byrd as they were the leading lights of the division. Now I propose some matchups (not involving 80's king Mike Tyson nor Wladimir Klitschko as they are obviously the top guys) for everyone to ponder. Tell me who u guys would pick.

Tony Tubbs vs. Sultan Ibragimov
Pinklon Thomas vs. Ruslan Chagaev
Frank Bruno vs. Nicolay Valuev
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson
Michael Dokes vs. Oleg Maskaev

[BodyBlaster]

I remember a few years back somebody posted mythical matchups between heavyweights from the 80's and now. The fighters used back then were guys like Vitali, Rahman, Toney, and Byrd as they were the leading lights of the division. Now I propose some matchups (not involving 80's king Mike Tyson nor Wladimir Klitschko as they are obviously the top guys) for everyone to ponder. Tell me who u guys would pick.

Tony Tubbs vs. Sultan Ibragimov
Pinklon Thomas vs. Ruslan Chagaev
Frank Bruno vs. Nicolay Valuev
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson
Michael Dokes vs. Oleg Maskaev

Id give it a clean sweep for the 80's guys there, with the possible exception of Peter getting lucky with a home run punch on Terrible T.

[RUSKULL]

Id give it a clean sweep for the 80's guys there, with the possible exception of Peter getting lucky with a home run punch on Terrible T.

Sure you would. :-(

The funny thing is in about 20 years people will look back & say "look how deep the HW division was between 2000-2010..............:deal

[brooklyn1550]

Tubbs UD
Thomas UD
Bruno UD
Witherspoon UD
Berbick UD
Dokes TKO7

[DanePugilist]

Tony Tubbs KO 6
Ruslan Chagaev UD
Nicolay Valuev KO 10
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter Draw(depending on what time of TWs career)
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson(dont know Thompson).
Michael Dokes KO 5

Extra: Tyson-Klitchko - Tyson by KO 2 in his prime, Klitschko by TKO just after jailtime.

[Titan1]

Full 80's sweep. And the potential best heavy of that group would have swept everyone of today's heavys.

[Cruiser1]

Sure you would. :-(

The funny thing is in about 20 years people will look back & say "look how deep the HW division was between 2000-2010..............:deal

Nobody gives two shits about today's division outside of Eastern Europe. Sorry to say it but it's true. The action is in the lower divisions. I don't necessarily agree with the clean sweep and I certainly don't put the fighters from the 80's on a pedestal but I also don't make the mistake of confusing boring and deep.

[Irish Steel]

People dont think that the HW division is exciting, or great mainly because one thing, Skin Color. Everyone, boxing fans, the media, thought 60's- early 90's were much better than now. DOnt get me wrong, I hate to bring this up. But people think that todays heavies really suck, because theyre white. But race isnt what produces good fighters. Its socio-economical times, and oppurtunities. Early ibn the century-1960 There were plenty white (and black) fighters. Because the great depression affected everyone, white and black. And there were many more whites living in poverty back then. Then In the 60's things realyl changed. Mainly blacks were stricken with poverty, and didnt have the oppurtunities that the whites hd. SO they chose sports as a way out. That is still goingf on today. But in eastern europe, they are going through the same thing now, mass poverty. WHich affects their mainly white population. And now, its their turn. They already dominate the HW boxing division. And Tennis, mainly womens. They are also becoming more common in basketball.

[Bummy Davis]

I tend to lean towards Today's heavysSultan,Chagaev,Valuev,Peter,Berbick,Dokes

[BodyBlaster]

Sure you would. :-(

The funny thing is in about 20 years people will look back & say "look how deep the HW division was between 2000-2010..............:deal

What do you mean?
I genuinely mean that I think all the 80's guys win those match ups, and easily, and Holmes and Tyson would have slaughtered the two Klitschkos to add that in too.

[BoppaZoo]

look if you really look at it.

the 80's guys would win. but what i dont get you made a thread about 1980 heavyweights but you left the 3 top 1980 guys off the list in
Mike Tyson
Larry Holmes
Ernie Shavers
now to me those 3 fighters right there would give Wlad the fight of his life and he would struggle to beat any in there Prime even Shavers.

[Musashi]

The '80's heavies were no better than the current group. Obviously neither the '80's or '00's are as impressive as the '70's or '90's. However, the '80's just didn't impress me at all.

Tony Tubbs vs. Sultan Ibragimov - Ibragimov SD 12
Pinklon Thomas vs. Ruslan Chagaev - Chagaev TKO 10
Frank Bruno vs. Nicolay Valuev - Valuev TKO 11
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter - Peter KO 7
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson - Berbick SD 12
Michael Dokes vs. Oleg Maskaev - Dokes TKO 8

I'm not saying the current era is any great shakes, but the ''talent'' of the '80's was no better.

And I have '88 Tyson winning by TKO 5 over Wlad, '96 Tyson losing by TKO 10, and '00 Tyson losing by KO 7.

It's popular to denigrate the current era. Even eras we now recognize to be good were often considered crap by the people of the time. I remember Thomas Hauser, who knows his stuff, railing about how the '90's were horrible, because, for a brief time, Bruno, Seldon, and Botha were ABC titlists. Now, in retrospect, we recognize that as a blip on the radar. But back then, that was a sign to many that all was lost and the heavies were shit.

Some perspective, people...

[Seamus]

Tony Tubbs vs. Sultan Ibragimov
Pinklon Thomas vs. Ruslan Chagaev
Frank Bruno vs. Nicolay Valuev
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson
Michael Dokes vs. Oleg Maskaev

Chag UD12 Thomas
Valuez UD12 Bruno
Peter KO6 Witherspoon
Berbick UD12 Thompson (is this guy even a top 15 heavy? he's horrible.)
Maskaev KO10 Dokes (goddamn is Maskaev under-rated lately)


Ok, where are the real Klitchko/Tyson/Spinks/Klitchko/Liakovich/Holmes.. et al. matchups?

[Raggamuffin]

[quote=Seamus]Chag UD12 Thomas
Valuez UD12 Bruno
Peter KO6 Witherspoon
Berbick UD12 Thompson (is this guy even a top 15 heavy? he's horrible.)
Maskaev KO10 Dokes (goddamn is Maskaev under-rated lately)


Thomas ko 10 Chagaev(Pinky's jab being the key)
Bruno ud Valuev(Valuev bigger but Frank stronger)
Witherspoon ud Peter(T.T to smart for a crude slugger)
Berbick ud Thompson(Tony not a proven commodity like Berbick)
Dokes tko 9 Maskeev (again Dokes is stronger here)

It sure looks like a clean sweep in my book

[Sonny's jab]

Witherspoon, Berbick, Bruno & Dokes would win their matches I think.

I'll give Chagaev and Ibragimov wins over Thomas and Tubbs though.

4-2 to the guys from the 80s

[Raggamuffin]

All Valuev has to do is lean on Bruno in the clinches to win. Bruno had no stamina at all, while stamina was one of Valuev's few good points.

Any fighter with a good gameplan, steady and hard jab and decent power can win against Valuev. He just isn't a volume puncher and throws little combinations
See what Chagaev did to him
Futhermore, his chin has not been tested.

[cross_trainer]

Both eras are equally bad, so I'd expect something approaching a 50-50 split...although some beltholders from that period did pick up an alarming number of close fights and losses, at least they were SLIGHTLY more willing to fight each other.

[Curtis Lowe]

S.I. win UD T. T. Tubbs wasn't much and was never in greatshape
P.T. win R. C. Thomas had a excellant jab, very powerful
N.V. TKO 10 F.B. Poor Frank tended to fall apart late in fights
T.W. TKO S.P. Tim way to good for primative Peter
T.T. W UD T.B. Berbick was very crude and stupid
O.M. TKO 9 M.D. Oleg still gets no respect, amazing

[sst]

Valuve would cursh Bruno who is taylor made for him.

[Raggamuffin]

Valuev is just a big ol' oafish fighter.
Ok, Bruno is also but is a little more skilled and has had more big fight exposure

[sst]

Valuev is just a big ol' oafish fighter.
Ok, Bruno is also but is a little more skilled and has had more big fight exposure
Chin up working behind a somewhat lazy jab is a recipe for getting ktfo against Valuev. Bruno gets koed.

[Raggamuffin]

Who has Valuev KOed then who was worth mentioning ?

[Cruiser1]

people confuse why people don't like the HW division. they think it's because there isn't enough American fighters.

It's not. it's because it a fucking woeful division that is frequently boring beyond all comprehension.

Not to mention the fact that most of the fighters are just downright boring to watch.

[Zakman]

The '80's heavies were no better than the current group. Obviously neither the '80's or '00's are as impressive as the '70's or '90's. However, the '80's just didn't impress me at all.

Tony Tubbs vs. Sultan Ibragimov - Ibragimov SD 12
Pinklon Thomas vs. Ruslan Chagaev - Chagaev TKO 10
Frank Bruno vs. Nicolay Valuev - Valuev TKO 11
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter - Peter KO 7
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson - Berbick SD 12
Michael Dokes vs. Oleg Maskaev - Dokes TKO 8

I agree completely. Having followed boxing quite avidly in the 80s, I can verify that these guys were certainly no better than the current crop, and quite possibly worse. The only outcome you indicated that I disagree with is that I think Maskaev would knock Dokes out. Gerrie Coetzee, who was quite comparable in quality to Maskaev knocked out a "prime" Dokes, so I have little doubt that Oleg could replicate the feat.

There is good reason that they called this era "The Lost Generation." For the most part, all of these guys were seriously flawed, and many of them were never in tip top condition. With few exceptions, that is not the case with the current contenders.

[MrSmall]

BodyBlaster?
How's the footy career, guy?

[Ambition_Def]

I remember a few years back somebody posted mythical matchups between heavyweights from the 80's and now. The fighters used back then were guys like Vitali, Rahman, Toney, and Byrd as they were the leading lights of the division. Now I propose some matchups (not involving 80's king Mike Tyson nor Wladimir Klitschko as they are obviously the top guys) for everyone to ponder. Tell me who u guys would pick.

Tony Tubbs vs. Sultan Ibragimov - Ibragimov SD
Pinklon Thomas vs. Ruslan Chagaev - Thomas UD
Frank Bruno vs. Nicolay Valuev - Valuev UD
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter - Witherspoon UD
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson - Berbick UD
Michael Dokes vs. Oleg Maskaev - Dokes UD

[Sonny Carson]

The only thing I know is that there is no way Peter beats or knocks out Whitherspoon unlesss Spoon's out of shape.

[BodyBlaster]

BodyBlaster?
How's the footy career, guy?

Hey man. Im only a month/6 weeks back training.
My girl had our baby boy 11wks ago, so i took time out to help her through her pregnancy.

[TheGreat]

Today's division is far worse than the 80's hands down.

[MrSmall]

Hey congratulations mate.
I remember you from about a year ago, you were pretty clued up on things.
So you still playing footy on a high level?

[TheGreat]

Tyson in his prime was schooled and brutally KO'd by Buster Douglas. Does anyone really think Buster beats Vlad? Earnie Shavers was brutally KO'd by short armed Jerry Quarry in one round. Does anybody really think Quarry is better than Vitali? And Holmes barely survived a KO when fighting Ernie. Dokes was Ko'd by Gerrie Coetsie, does anyone think Gerrie is that much better than Maskaev? Trevor Berbick in his prime could only manage a 10 round draw with Ali in Ali's very last fight, this was after Ali was effortlessly brutalized by Holmes. And berbeck managed 15 rounds with Holmes! Does anyone really think Berbick easily destroys 6'5" southpaw Thompson, much less one of the Klitschkos? Tony Tubbs, what a waste, don't tell me he easily destroys Iggy. Chagaev vs Pinklon and Bruno vs Valuev would be great to watch. Witherspoon vs Peter would be very fun too. Holmes vs Vlad would be great, and as good as Holmes' jab was, it was not faster and certainly wasn't as powerful as Vlad's. I'd go with Vlad by KO. Sure Holmes beat Evangelista, Ledoux, Zanon, Leon Spinks, Scott Frank, Marvis Frazer, Tex Cobb, David Bey, and Lucien Rodriguez, but his best fight was the 15 rounder against Ken Norton, who was shortly after destroyed by one armed Gerry Cooney. If Vlad fought the above list of nobodies people would go apeshit berserk, but somehow in hindsight these guys are supposed to show how great Holmes and his era is? Oh come on!

Douglas while nothing great was a proven contender who had already fought for the title but Wlad the best HW today in his prime was brutally KTFO by 3 C class Bums who never won a big fight before :lol: Vitaly had a 38 yr old inactive ATG fighter in front of him in Lewis just like Tyson had with Holmes but the results were a whole hell of a lot different but he still gets hype since when does losing to the man make you the man? Ruiz actually has the best resume out of any of the active HW's but he and the rest of this division was exposed by RJJ . Byrd recieved gift after gift in his title defenses. Shot fighters like Briggs and Oleg who were not that good in the 90s' were able to become major players today in this division. The rest of today's current crop isn't even worth mentioning.

[Bigcat]

The one difference that seperates todays heavys from the 80's , the 80's heavyweights were hungry as hell.. Not as many big purses outside of massive superfights.. Too many self satisfied overpaid sloths today, Good pro's but never the superstars of yesteryear..

I don't like to generalise, but its more than likely true in this case..

Any on form highly motivated 80's heavyweight would muster up the performance to overcome the better half of todays heavyweights who get by too often on size..

[TheGreat]

The one difference that seperates todays heavys from the 80's , the 80's heavyweights were hungry as hell.. Not as many big purses outside of massive superfights.. Too many self satisfied overpaid sloths today, Good pro's but never the superstars of yesteryear..

I don't like to generalise, but its more than likely true in this case..

Any on form highly motivated 80's heavyweight would muster up the performance to overcome the better half of todays heavyweights who get by too often on size..

1 more thing everyone fought each other in that division unlike today.

[RUSKULL]

Tyson in his prime was schooled and brutally KO'd by Buster Douglas. Does anyone really think Buster beats Vlad? Earnie Shavers was brutally KO'd by short armed Jerry Quarry in one round. Does anybody really think Quarry is better than Vitali? And Holmes barely survived a KO when fighting Ernie. Dokes was Ko'd by Gerrie Coetsie, does anyone think Gerrie is that much better than Maskaev? Trevor Berbick in his prime could only manage a 10 round draw with Ali in Ali's very last fight, this was after Ali was effortlessly brutalized by Holmes. And berbeck managed 15 rounds with Holmes! Does anyone really think Berbick easily destroys 6'5" southpaw Thompson, much less one of the Klitschkos? Tony Tubbs, what a waste, don't tell me he easily destroys Iggy. Chagaev vs Pinklon and Bruno vs Valuev would be great to watch. Witherspoon vs Peter would be very fun too. Holmes vs Vlad would be great, and as good as Holmes' jab was, it was not faster and certainly wasn't as powerful as Vlad's. I'd go with Vlad by KO. Sure Holmes beat Evangelista, Ledoux, Zanon, Leon Spinks, Scott Frank, Marvis Frazer, Tex Cobb, David Bey, and Lucien Rodriguez, but his best fight was the 15 rounder against Ken Norton, who was shortly after destroyed by one armed Gerry Cooney. If Vlad fought the above list of nobodies people would go apeshit berserk, but somehow in hindsight these guys are supposed to show how great Holmes and his era is? Oh come on!

Well done. :deal

[BodyBlaster]

Hey congratulations mate.
I remember you from about a year ago, you were pretty clued up on things.
So you still playing footy on a high level?

Thanks mate.
I havent played at all this year, I tore a muscle in my thigh in October last year at the end of my season, and contract, so sat things out till my girl had our baby.

Thats me back training properly now, and aiming to go back to Sweden for pre-season at the end of November.

[El Bombasto]

I remember a few years back somebody posted mythical matchups between heavyweights from the 80's and now. The fighters used back then were guys like Vitali, Rahman, Toney, and Byrd as they were the leading lights of the division. Now I propose some matchups (not involving 80's king Mike Tyson nor Wladimir Klitschko as they are obviously the top guys) for everyone to ponder. Tell me who u guys would pick.

Tony Tubbs vs. Sultan Ibragimov
Pinklon Thomas vs. Ruslan Chagaev
Frank Bruno vs. Nicolay Valuev
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson
Michael Dokes vs. Oleg Maskaev

Tubbs UD, he's a little too crafty for Sultan
Chagaev UD
Valuev KO, Bruno's chin was glass
Witherspoon UD, Peter's got nothing here
Thompson UD, Berbick was just an average guy who happened to be a titlist
Dokes by KO

[aliwasthegreatest]

nah berbick was better than thompson IMO. Berbick was far from great but that doesn't make him quite bad enough to lost to thompson. also Pinklon Thomas at his best was an outstanding HW, not great but still definetely top class. i don't see chagaev beating him but it would be interesting to see

[2smart4u]

Tyson in his prime was schooled and brutally KO'd by Buster Douglas. Does anyone really think Buster beats Vlad? Earnie Shavers was brutally KO'd by short armed Jerry Quarry in one round. Does anybody really think Quarry is better than Vitali? And Holmes barely survived a KO when fighting Ernie. Dokes was Ko'd by Gerrie Coetsie, does anyone think Gerrie is that much better than Maskaev? Trevor Berbick in his prime could only manage a 10 round draw with Ali in Ali's very last fight, this was after Ali was effortlessly brutalized by Holmes. And berbeck managed 15 rounds with Holmes! Does anyone really think Berbick easily destroys 6'5" southpaw Thompson, much less one of the Klitschkos? Tony Tubbs, what a waste, don't tell me he easily destroys Iggy. Chagaev vs Pinklon and Bruno vs Valuev would be great to watch. Witherspoon vs Peter would be very fun too. Holmes vs Vlad would be great, and as good as Holmes' jab was, it was not faster and certainly wasn't as powerful as Vlad's. I'd go with Vlad by KO. Sure Holmes beat Evangelista, Ledoux, Zanon, Leon Spinks, Scott Frank, Marvis Frazer, Tex Cobb, David Bey, and Lucien Rodriguez, but his best fight was the 15 rounder against Ken Norton, who was shortly after destroyed by one armed Gerry Cooney. If Vlad fought the above list of nobodies people would go apeshit berserk, but somehow in hindsight these guys are supposed to show how great Holmes and his era is? Oh come on!:deal :good

[BodyBlaster]

[quote=bulldogge]Tyson in his prime was schooled and brutally KO'd by Buster Douglas. Does anyone really think Buster beats Vlad?


The Buster who fought that night, yes, I think he'd batter Wlad.
Or lets look at it another way, who thinks Ross Purity, Corrie Sanders or Lamon Brewster beats Tyson??

[Muchmoore]

I remember a few years back somebody posted mythical matchups between heavyweights from the 80's and now. The fighters used back then were guys like Vitali, Rahman, Toney, and Byrd as they were the leading lights of the division. Now I propose some matchups (not involving 80's king Mike Tyson nor Wladimir Klitschko as they are obviously the top guys) for everyone to ponder. Tell me who u guys would pick.

Tony Tubbs vs. Sultan Ibragimov
Pinklon Thomas vs. Ruslan Chagaev
Frank Bruno vs. Nicolay Valuev
Tim Witherspoon vs. Samuel Peter
Trevor Berbick vs. Tony Thompson
Michael Dokes vs. Oleg Maskaev

Tubbs UD over Sultan. Tubbs had a speed edge and was durable.

Thomas UD over Chageav. I'm talking about the Thomas that was top ten p4p, not the Berbick one.

Valuev vs. Bruno is a toss up. Bruno was a better boxer but Valuev has better stamina and obviously the size edge. If Bruno tires late Valuev might get him out of there like Barrett.

Witherspoon comfortable UD over Peter. The Spoon was a very good boxer and Peters power is over rated.

Berbick decision over Thompson as well. Thompson hasnt proven himself against the top guys yet, Berbick wasnt a bad fighter.

Peak Dokes beats Maskeav fairly easily as well. Dokes is under rated.

Bad matchups for todays fighters.