Michael Moorer

[the cobra]

Two questions:


(A) Did he move up to heavyweight because he simply couldn't make 175lbs anymore, or did he chose to go up just to try his luck at the Heavyweight Championship?


(B) How does he do against the great lightheavyweights? Moorer doesn't deserve to be called great, especially at 175lbs, but he was a talented fighter and his chin wouldn't be as much of a weakness at lightheavy. I've only seen him in the two fights with Holyfield, the fight with Foreman, and a fight with Bert Cooper, so I've never seen him at 175lbs.


For whatever it's worth, Moorer left 175lbs with a record of 22-0 (22), he picked up the vacant WBO belt (again, for whatever it's worth) and made 9 defenses of this belt, although none of the guys were noteable.

At heavyweight he pulled of the upset over Holyfield, beat Bonecrusher Smith in the early 90's, and stopped Bert Cooper in 5 rounds.


Thoughts on how he does against the likes of Charles, Moore, Spinks, Foster, etc. head-to-head.

[Seamus]

He went to 175 because he liked to eat more than one bean a day. Seriously, Manny had him on a full starvation diet. It was not possible to maintain as he aged, and certainly not healthy.

[TBooze]

Moorer was fun at 175lbs, but no great. The Stewart and Allen fights showed his limitations....

I do not think he beats Hill or Williams at 175 let alone Moore or Foster.

I personally think he is only pick-em against Jeff Harding.

And without hindsight, this was very much said at the time, Moorer (who did have big problems with weight at 175) could of peaked at 190 if he had stopped of there.

But the modern Cruiserweight division is boxing's bastard division, so you cannot blame Moorer for wanting the money that came with big Heavyweight bouts.

[Sweet Pea]

He went to 175 because he liked to eat more than one bean a day.:lol:

Moorer wouldn't have beaten any greats at LHW, period. Just too limited. Some moron in the General Forum recently by the name of LennoxGOAT was trying to tell me he was head to head the best LHW ever.

:patsch

[the cobra]

I've never seen him at 175lbs, and only in 4 fights (2 of which he lost) total, he's obviously a puncher and seems to have at least solid fundamentals. What were the limitations, if you could please inform me.

[Sweet Pea]

I've never seen him at 175lbs, and only in 4 fights (2 of which he lost) total, he's obviously a puncher and seems to have at least solid fundamentals. What were the limitations, if you could please inform me.I personally thought he was better at HW actually, seemed to be a more solid fighter.

At LHW he couldn't fight going backward and wasn't hard to push backward, he had leaky defense that any of the big punching LHW greats would've exposed, like Saad Muhammad or Qawi, and he just didn't seem to have much of an arsenal aside from his southpaw jab and straight left. He carried a lot of power, but otherwise he's terribly overrated at LHW for whatever reason.

While he likely wouldn't be facing the same caliber of punchers he faced at HW, he was so weight-drained I don't think he'd have fared any better against the greats durability wise at LHW.

[janitor]

Whatever his limitations at LHW, he established himself as the best fighter on the planet at heavyweight.

How many guys who fought at 175 can say that?

[the cobra]

Originally posted by Sweet Pea
I personally thought he was better at HW actually, seemed to be a more solid fighter.

At LHW he couldn't fight going backward and wasn't hard to push backward, he had leaky defense that any of the big punching LHW greats would've exposed, like Saad Muhammad or Qawi, and he just didn't seem to have much of an arsenal aside from his southpaw jab and straight left. He carried a lot of power, but otherwise he's terribly overrated at LHW for whatever reason.

While he likely wouldn't be facing the same caliber of punchers he faced at HW, he was so weight-drained I don't think he'd have fared any better against the greats durability wise at LHW.
Nice post Sweet Pea, you covered everything I was looking for in the thread.


Originally posted by janitor
Whatever his limitations at LHW, he established himself as the best fighter on the planet at heavyweight.

How many guys who fought at 175 can say that?

Only Charles, Spinks, Tunney, and Moorer of which I can think of. It does seem that a lot of people (myself included) dismiss the win to an extent as simply a bad performance by Holyfield, but nonetheless it's an impressive achievement, one he does deserve a lot of credit for.

[Russell]

At LHW he couldn't fight going backward and wasn't hard to push backward, he had leaky defense that any of the big punching LHW greats would've exposed, like Saad Muhammad or Qawi, and he just didn't seem to have much of an arsenal aside from his southpaw jab and straight left. He carried a lot of power, but otherwise he's terribly overrated at LHW for whatever reason.


Probably the power that a man at 175 who can at 250 fight well and beat Vassily Jirov has.

Drained or not he operated well enough and his power was scary. People are going on about Valero but Moorer had that type of power at the lower weights as well. He hit people and they froze.

[Sweet Pea]

Whatever his limitations at LHW, he established himself as the best fighter on the planet at heavyweight.

How many guys who fought at 175 can say that?C'mon, he was never the best figher on the planet. He beat Holyfield by MD only to lose his tite directly after to ancient George. He'd have lost to most other top HW's at the time, and did for the rest of his career.

A single win doesn't make you the best fighter on the planet, regardless of what titles you hold on paper.

Was Baldomir the legit best WW on the planet after beating Zab?

[Sweet Pea]

Probably the power that a man at 175 who can at 250 fight well and beat Vassily Jirov has.:huh


Drained or not he operated well enough and his power was scary. People are going on about Valero but Moorer had that type of power at the lower weights as well. He hit people and they froze.
He was better than Valero for sure, don't get me wrong there. But he never proved himself against any elite fighter at LHW. He looked better at HW than at LHW to me, much more sound overall.

[Russell]

He performed extremely well against Jirov at that weight. His frame could carry it.

[janitor]

C'mon, he was never the best figher on the planet. He beat Holyfield by MD only to lose his tite directly after to ancient George. He'd have lost to most other top HW's at the time, and did for the rest of his career.

A single win doesn't make you the best fighter on the planet, regardless of what titles you hold on paper.

Was Baldomir the legit best WW on the planet after beating Zab?

Was Jimmy Braddock the legit best fighter on the planet after beating Max Baer?

No, but you couldnt exactly ask him to prove more.

At that moment, Moorer was the lineal descendant of Sullivan, Jeffries, Johnson, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman (should have watched that one), Holmes Tyson etc.

[Sweet Pea]

He performed extremely well against Jirov at that weight. His frame could carry it.:huh He was being thoroughly outboxed for the entire fight prior to catching Jirov late, and he outweighed him by 30 pounds. You must be thinking of another fight.

[Sweet Pea]

Was Jimmy Braddock the legit best fighter on the planet after beating Max Baer?

No, but you couldnt exactly ask him to prove more.OK.....

He still wasn't the best fighter on the planet, and it was proved shortly afterwards. Props to both guys for pulling off huge upsets, but aside from a single win, I would never classify either as the best fighters on the planet.

[Russell]

:huh He was being thoroughly outboxed for the entire fight prior to catching Jirov late, and he outweighed him by 30 pounds. You must be thinking of another fight.

Jirov headbutted Moorer half a dozen times and ruined his own face in the process. As if that doesn't factor into it. :lol:

He was old. Past his best, two weight divisions up from where he started and fat. VERY fat.

And he beat one of the best cruiser weights that I can personally think of of the top of my head.

He was a big man. Boiled down to 175 the power he had was scary. That's my only point.

[Russell]

Not to mention one of those damned headbutts damn near knocked Moorer out.

Nasty butts.

[Sweet Pea]

Jirov headbutted Moorer half a dozen times and ruined his own face in the process. As if that doesn't factor into it. :lol:

He was old. Past his best, two weight divisions up from where he started and fat. VERY fat.

And he beat one of the best cruiser weights that I can personally think of of the top of my head.

He was a big man. Boiled down to 175 the power he had was scary. That's my only point.He had very good power at 175, but he was also weight-drained and not nearly as strong at the weight, so it's not as if he was as powerful at 175 as he was at HW in a literal sense.

And I was just responding to you saying he performed extremely well. I didn't see the same fight apparently.

[Russell]

Did you miss the fat, old, two weights removed from his initial one bits?

Because all those things, on top of him WINNING the fight.

Yeah, doing a little more than okay.

[Sweet Pea]

Did you miss the fat, old, two weights removed from his initial one bits?

Because all those things, on top of him WINNING the fight.

Yeah, doing a little more than okay.Those were pretty much the exact reasons I had for him NOT looking good in that fight.

[Russell]

Meh, he was the sole person to ever stop Jirov.

You see how many shots a Cruiserweight Toney bounced off his skull over 12 rounds?

I was impressed enough considering the circumstances for Moorer.

[the cobra]

If Moorer could have fought at the current cruiserweight limit of 200lbs when he was at his peak instead of boiling down to 175lbs or facing bigger men at heavy, who are the guys you pick over him in the divisions history? Holyfield at his best of course, Toney, Qawi, how does he fare at this weight?