ESB Classic Forum: Tell me about Panama Al Brown

[Bad_Intentions]

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What are your thoughts on this great fighter?
how good he was?
is he in your ATG top list? if so, how high is he at?
which opponent would give him the most trouble at 126?.

Discuss :good

[Sweet Pea]

I rate him among my top 10 Featherweights personally. Excellent resume, looks like quite the stylistic problem on film as well. I'd have to review and give more thoughts on how he'd fare head to head with certain fighters though.

[the cobra]

Well the first thing I'll say is that Brown was a bantamweight, he won the world title in '29 and made 11 defenses for the next 6 years. He defeated the majority of top guys around him like Teddy Baldock, Pete Sanstol, Vidal Gregorio, Newsboy Brown, Eugene Criqui, Victor Perez, and most of the top bantamweights of his time. He was one of the first hispanic boxers ever to win a world title (can't think who exactly was first, and it may well have been him). He lost his recogonition as champion to Baltazar Sangchili, but avenged the lost in their rematch (Sangchili had lost the bantamweight crown to Sixto Escobar by then). He was insanely tall and long for a bantamweight, he was something like 5'10'' and his wingspan was actually longer than he was tall. He ended his career at featherweight, but his greatest weight was definitely bantam. As for where he ranks there, he's without question a top 5, and has a chance of beating anybody in the division's history. He died a few years after he retired, he had a fatal disease, although I can't think of what it was at the moment. Top 50 or 60 on an all-time P4P list IMO.

[the cobra]

Strike that, he lost to Newsboy. Ment to say fought Newsboy Brown, as well as Freddie Miller and Battling Battalino (both beat him).

[Sweet Pea]

Yep, I always get certain fighters classes mixed up. He was a Featherweight toward the end of his career, but for the majority of his prime he was a Bantamweight. That would be the class I rate him in.

[the cobra]

Common mistake, A bantamweight who fought 70 years ago against a lot of the top featherweights who was himself nearly 6' foot is very likely called a featherweight himself by most quite frequently. I posted that he died a few years after retiring from some fatal disease, just checked and it was tuberculosis that he died from, something like 10 years after his final fight. And also recently checked who was the first Latino champion, and it was Brown.

[Russell]

Unbelievably durable from what I've heard. Never off his feet potentially, definitely never stopped.

[Loewe]

Is it right that he had the reputation of beeing a very dirty fighter, too? I think i heard that a few times.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by Loewe
Is it right that he had the reputation of beeing a very dirty fighter, too? I think i heard that a few times.
Have never heard a reputation for this, but have never heard really anything about whether he was dirty or not. From what little I have seen of Brown, he reminded me of a ghost just creeping around the ring, a crazy, and very impressive fighter to watch. Excellent power in both hands, especially the right, a slashing jab, precision punching, and appears very difficult to hit. A nearly 6' foot man with a 76'' reach who weighes 118lbs, And I had though Thomas Hearns looke like a freak of nature at 147lbs. He had an excellent chin as well, truly a marvelous fighter.

[janitor]

A nearly 6' foot man with a 76'' reach who weighes 118lbs, And I had though Thomas Hearns looke like a freak of nature at 147lbs. He had an excellent chin as well, truly a marvelous fighter.

He seems to be the exception to the rule that skinny fighters have shaky chins.

[Ted Spoon]

Brown was a real 'freak of the ring'.

His career was one of controversial proportions that rivalled Tysons.

He was a successful black fighter in the 1920's, was prone to fight dirty because he was so much taller than his opponents, and he was reported to have a homosexual relationship with his French manager, Jean Cocteau.

The dirty fighting that Brown often partook in almost cost him his life in 1934, during his rematch with former first round victim, Gustav Humery.

Humery had previously had his jaw broken after he was smashed with the first punch that Brown threw, and after Brown continued with some illegal tactics in the rematch the enraged fans ripped up the ring and left Brown with cuts, bruises, broken bones and a concussion.

In the ring Brown was a naturally great boxer with his long limbs, but he could clutch n' pound you like Sandy Saddler did. He had a great jab, right hand and could loop an uppercut like Kid Gavilan.

Would've been great to see the lanky master take on some of the more compact, explosive packages, like Jofre and Olivares.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by janitor
He seems to be the exception to the rule that skinny fighters have shaky chins.
Yeah, and he was probably the skinniest of them all. Arguello and Saddler both had excellent chins too though, but can't really think of other skinny fighters with great chins.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by Ted Spoon
Would've been great to see the lanky master take on some of the more compact, explosive packages, like Jofre and Olivares.
It would have been very interesting to watch how Jofre would go at a fight with somebody as tall and long and skilled as Brown. I might favor Eder slightly H2H, faster, a little harder puncher, and I think he could get inside Brown's long arms. I'd take Brown to probably outbox Olivares at a distance and have enough to take the few powerful shots that Rubin would be able to land on Brown's chin, and all of Rubin's bodywork as well. Somewhat of a 50/50 figth with both guys (I have only seen two fights of Brown, plus a first round knockout he scored). Tough to really say, at least from my point of view, what was the best style to beat him.

[Sweet Pea]

It would have been very interesting to watch how Jofre would go at a fight with somebody as tall and long and skilled as Brown. I might favor Eder slightly H2H, faster, a little harder puncher, and I think he could get inside Brown's long arms. I'd take Brown to probably outbox Olivares at a distance and have enough to take the few powerful shots that Rubin would be able to land on Brown's chin, and all of Rubin's bodywork as well. Somewhat of a 50/50 figth with both guys (I have only seen two fights of Brown, plus a first round knockout he scored). Tough to really say, at least from my point of view, what was the best style to beat him.You'd say Jofre was faster? I thought Brown showed fantastic lateral movement in his bouts, and his ability to counter with ease over or under his opponents punches due to his height was amazing. Would be some interesting bouts, but I probably would favor both Olivares and Jofre.

I'd like to see how Brown would've done against Lionel Rose.

[the cobra]

Faster hands. Perhaps not so skilled with the footwork (Brown's was was spectacular, he just hovered around the ring, gliding across and finding the spots to throw), but I give Eder the edge in handspeed. I've only seen two full fights of Brown, but I'd take Jofre over him, Olivares could go either way put I think Brown could pull that win out. He's got a shot aagainst any bantam ever, I don't think there's any who I feel surely would have beaten him (although I feel pretty confident with Jofre).

Brown-Rose would have been very interesting indeed.

[Sweet Pea]

Faster hands. Perhaps not so skilled with the footwork (Brown's was was spectacular, he just hovered around the ring, gliding across and finding the spots to throw), but I give Eder the edge in handspeed. I've only seen two full fights of Brown, but I'd take Jofre over him, Olivares could go either way put I think Brown could pull that win out. He's got a shot aagainst any bantam ever, I don't think there's any who I feel surely would have beaten him (although I feel pretty confident with Jofre).

Brown-Rose would have been very interesting indeed.Olivares at his best seemed just as well suited if not better suited to dealing with that type of fighter given his body attack. I'd favor him quite clearly as well.

Brown vs Zarate would be interesting. I think I'd favor Brown to outbox him given that Zarate wouldn't have certain advantages like height and reach that he usually had, and Brown's chin and craftiness would allow him to deal with Zarate's attack.

[Russell]

He seems to be the exception to the rule that skinny fighters have shaky chins.

Probably because he wasn't draining to such a weight. It was natural.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by Sweet Pea
Olivares at his best seemed just as well suited if not better suited to dealing with that type of fighter given his body attack. I'd favor him quite clearly as well.

Brown vs Zarate would be interesting. I think I'd favor Brown to outbox him given that Zarate wouldn't have certain advantages like height and reach that he usually had, and Brown's chin and craftiness would allow him to deal with Zarate's attack.
I think Brown would be able to hit Olivares a little more than Jofre, and despite Rubin's uderrated skills, he couldn't hang with Brown on the outside, he has to get inside. Several slick boxers beat Brown, and I believe Jofre could hold is own on the outside and take control on the inside pretty much as well as Olivares would. I don't feel definitive about Jofre beating Brown, but I definitely lean towards him. A figth with Olivares is about 50/50 IMO, depending on how well Olivares gets inside and how well Brown takes the body shots.

Haven't seen enough of Manuel Ortiz to judge about between he and Brown, so the only top 5 level bantam I'm quite confident Brown would beat is Zarate. Carlos was a magnificent bodypuncher as well, but Brown's hieght and reach would present a lot of problems to Zarate considering he was never in the ring with a taller longer fighter, his chin is good enough to take Zarate's brutal shots, and his jab and footwork good enough to keep Zarate at a good distance.

[Stonehands89]

Brown was 5'11. I believe that may be the tallest in Bantamweight history... he fought in a fairly predictable style, behind the jab with a good right hand.

Brown was highly cultured -forget Tunney with his Shakespeare and Klitschko with his 4 languages- Brown spoke 7.

[Stonehands89]

Yeah, and he was probably the skinniest of them all. Arguello and Saddler both had excellent chins too though, but can't really think of other skinny fighters with great chins.
"You know dem fighters with long necks and dem long, pointy chins. They cost you more for smellin' salts than they do for food."

~ Charley Goldman

[Mantequilla]

Brown looks a lot like Zapata in style, with a bit of supercharged Herol Graham about him too.

Extremely loose fighter with laid back impeccable footwork

[mcvey]

Brown was 5'11. I believe that may be the tallest in Bantamweight history... he fought in a fairly predictable style, behind the jab with a good right hand.

Brown was highly cultured -forget Tunney with his Shakespeare and Klitschko with his 4 languages- Brown spoke 7.
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