ken norton overated or underated?

[fg2227]

Also wondering what he does nowadays.

[Luigi1985]

It´s all relative. IMO he´s a bit underrated legacywise, but overrated head-to-head. He beat Ali 2 times out of 3, beat Holmes IMO, made some great fights against Young, Quarry, etc.. But head-to-head, I favour most ATG´s to beat him because of his suspect chin (Marciano, Jeffries, Dempsey, Frazier, Tyson, Holyfield, etc.)

[JohnThomas1]

I think he sits mostly where he should. I'd say balanced unlike many others. Norton doesn't seem to get the extremes like Tyson, Marciano and numerous others. Probably because, even at his best, he wasn't THAT fantastic.

[Sonny's jab]

I think he's a bit underrated.

His chin wasn't as bad as people say. There are guys who got stopped by Ali and Holmes and they dont get half as much of a bad rap on having a weak chin.
Oscar Bonavena & Ron Lyle fought Ali once each, and got knocked all fuzzy-eyed by single shots. Norton fought him 3 times and never got hurt.
I think Norton-Shavers was a case of who got the shot in first. And Norton just had the wrong style for fighting Foreman.

Norton certainly had his limitations, but he was a decent pressure boxer, awkward defensive style, good workrate, decent power and was VERY STRONG. One of the strongest heavyweight contenders in history.

[Russell]

I've heard more than one person complain about his entry into the Hall of Fame. How he was good but nothing exceptional in the time he fought in...

[ChrisPontius]

Norton is one of those boxers who can give even the greatest fighter nightmares (Ali, Holmes) but at the same time can look like cannon fodder in quick knockout loss against punchers. That makes him hard to rate.

[garymcfall]

I'd say he is probably over rated overall because of the Ali fights, his style was good to bother Ali and Holmes. He had a decent jab but his chin was bad, i have him at number 24 in my atg heavies list although he has been as high as 30 before.

[Russell]

I'd say he is probably over rated overall because of the Ali fights, his style was good to bother Ali and Holmes. He had a decent jab but his chin was bad, i have him at number 24 in my atg heavies list although he has been as high as 30 before.

Style to bother Holmes?

He stood there and slugged it out with Holmes and gave the man absolute hell.

[Titan1]

He's truly neither, though because of the Ali trilogy some may overrate him, but is underrated because he did beat some good fighters.

[Luigi1985]

Yep basically. Where have you been anyways?


Hi Sweetpea! :hi:


Not that much time...

How are you?

[Sonny's jab]

I think Norton gets a bad rap on a lot of stuff.

People can say he looks like cannon fodder against punchers - and he might have done in certain big fights - but then they or others draw the conclusion that Norton would have got KO'd by any big puncher in history.

The truth is, Shavers and Foreman were too of the biggest punchers EVER.
I do believe Norton had stylistic limitations that prevented him from beating Foreman, but I think if he's fought Shavers 3 times he would have KO'd Earnie at least once. That's heavyweight boxing.

As for his loss to Cooney, he was so far past his best by then that it's hard to assess whether Cooney could have done the same against a "live" Norton.

Also, Norton's sucesses against Ali, and his close effort against Holmes are often portrayed as if Norton' stylistic advantages were almost just a "fluke" as if by accident he could do well against these fighters. There's nothing flukey about it. Norton was obviously in their class. He also beat Jimmy Young (yes, it was close, but I think Norton won for sure). He smacked out the much-hyped "white hope" puncher Duane Bobick in 1 round, and beat a fading and unprepared (but still VERY competitive) Jerry Quarry.

[Luigi1985]

I'm good, haven't seen you or SuzieQ49 in quite some time.


Yeah, SuzieQ49, I also didn´t read something from him, he´s probably under school stress or so...

[mr. magoo]

I agree with Sonny's Jab, and I've often said so myself, that people get a bit carried away with calling Norton a " chiny " fighter. George Foreman, Earnie Shavers, and Gerry Cooney are among some of the hardest punchers. What's more, Norton fought two of those guys when he was past his best, while the third had that right combination of power and style to beat him. The fact is, Ken was one of the most best conditioned fighters in the sport's history. He never showed up out of shape. In 42 wins, he had victories over Ali, Quarry, Bobick, Young, Zannon, Cobb, Kirkman, and an avenged loss to Luis Garcia. Some also feel that he was robbed in his final meeting against Ali, and was possibly the toughest fight that a peak Larry Holmes ever had. No, I wouldn't say that he deserves to be rated quite as high as Ali, Frazier, Foreman, or Holmes, but frankly, I suspect that had he fought during some other era's, he might have been a respectable lineal champion.

The original author of this thread, asked what Norton is doing today. I'm not exactly sure myself, but I know that for the last 25 years or so, he's lived a pretty hard life of disability due to a car accident on the Santa Monica freeway during the early 80's. His son Ken Norton Jr. Was a very successful NFL football player during the 90's, and I believe is now retired himself.

[fg2227]

Thanks, cant believe that he has no money left.

[Holmes' Jab]

I think he's a bit underrated.

His chin wasn't as bad as people say. There are guys who got stopped by Ali and Holmes and they dont get half as much of a bad rap on having a weak chin.
Oscar Bonavena & Ron Lyle fought Ali once each, and got knocked all fuzzy-eyed by single shots. Norton fought him 3 times and never got hurt.
I think Norton-Shavers was a case of who got the shot in first. And Norton just had the wrong style for fighting Foreman.

Norton certainly had his limitations, but he was a decent pressure boxer, awkward defensive style, good workrate, decent power and was VERY STRONG. One of the strongest heavyweight contenders in history.

Very good post.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Norton's crowing is champ is just about the only time I'm glad that a fighter won his crown in the boardroom rather than the ring. He deserved it after the 3rd Ali fight.

[Street Lethal]

It´s all relative. IMO he´s a bit underrated legacywise, but overrated head-to-head. He beat Ali 2 times out of 3, beat Holmes IMO, made some great fights against Young, Quarry, etc.. But head-to-head, I favour most ATG´s to beat him because of his suspect chin (Marciano, Jeffries, Dempsey, Frazier, Tyson, Holyfield, etc.)

Yu really believe he beat Holmes?

[Street Lethal]

Sonny Liston pretty much says what I would have said.

[Duodenum]

I think a lot of Ken's rating is based on the presumption that he would have been the challenger most likely to eventually dethrone Ali for the first time, if Muhammad had never gone into exile. Hence, there's an expectation that he would have actually won the title in the ring.

Always in top condition, Kenny was something of a head case (much like Jerry Quarry). Norton won matches he should have lost, and lost matches he should have won. For his era, he was Max Schmeling to Ali's Joe Louis, the one who proved that defeating Ali did not require superhuman powers. He also rebounded from devastating setbacks to Garcia, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Shavers, and finally, followed his draw against LeDoux by knocking Tex Cobb from the unbeaten ranks before Cooney retired him.

He parlayed his physical appearance into a mainstream recognition and success which eludes modern boxers (with the exeption of Holyfield). No non-champion in boxing has approached his level of popularity since. (Everybody knew Norton as Mandingo, long before he was ever awarded the WBC HW Title.)

I don't know that he's a worthy hall of famer, but he deserves to be well remembered for his career, just as contemporaries Lyle and Shavers are.

[mcvey]

Norton is one of those boxers who can give even the greatest fighter nightmares (Ali, Holmes) but at the same time can look like cannon fodder in quick knockout loss against punchers. That makes him hard to rate.
Apart from Ali .officially winning one out of three his resume isnt that great ,Im talking about winning fights Quarrry was all through,Young couldnt punch really Norton was the punchers Rabbit,so not an ATG for me,though I wouldnt mind his physique.

[ChrisPontius]

Incidentally, i always thought he was Richard Pryor's twin brother:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]




[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Dostoevsky]

Overrated and underrated

He is in the HoF for gods sake, he DOES NOT deserve to be in there.
Through that questionable idea to include him, people now rip on him unfairly and insult his skill set and make him out to be a lesser fighter than he actually was.

[Bummy Davis]

Norton could only fight going foward and he could not do that against a puncher as we have seen, He was trouble for Ali in 3 fights and the Young fight was close, Holmes finished stronger IMO in the last round but the fight was close. He was a very good contender but did have ovious weaknesses going foward with a puncher because he rarely was successful with a puncher...Garcia KO BY 8,Foreman KO by 2, Shavers Ko2, Cooney KO 1 and even though the Ledoux fight went 10, Norton was down 2 times and almost out in there fight declared a draw

[Primadonna Kool]

I agree with Sonny's Jab, and I've often said so myself, that people get a bit carried away with calling Norton a " chiny " fighter. George Foreman, Earnie Shavers, and Gerry Cooney are among some of the hardest punchers. What's more, Norton fought two of those guys when he was past his best, while the third had that right combination of power and style to beat him. The fact is, Ken was one of the most best conditioned fighters in the sport's history. He never showed up out of shape. In 42 wins, he had victories over Ali, Quarry, Bobick, Young, Zannon, Cobb, Kirkman, and an avenged loss to Luis Garcia. Some also feel that he was robbed in his final meeting against Ali, and was possibly the toughest fight that a peak Larry Holmes ever had. No, I wouldn't say that he deserves to be rated quite as high as Ali, Frazier, Foreman, or Holmes, but frankly, I suspect that had he fought during some other era's, he might have been a respectable lineal champion.

The original author of this thread, asked what Norton is doing today. I'm not exactly sure myself, but I know that for the last 25 years or so, he's lived a pretty hard life of disability due to a car accident on the Santa Monica freeway during the early 80's. His son Ken Norton Jr. Was a very successful NFL football player during the 90's, and I believe is now retired himself.

Ken Norton must be well looked after if his son was a NLF football player, they earn Millions.

[DamonD]

Just about right, I'd say.

Yes he did get bombed out of there early by some big hitters, but over the fight with Holmes and the three fights with Ali he showed his quality.

[Luigi1985]

Yu really believe he beat Holmes?


It was a death even fight who could have scored either way. Or do you disagree?

[mr. magoo]

It was a death even fight who could have scored either way. Or do you disagree?

I felt it was very close, but I'd still have to give the fight to Holmes, and it most certainly was not a robbery as some like to claim.

[janitor]

He is in the HoF for gods sake, he DOES NOT deserve to be in there.


Maybe he dose.

Some people want an exclusive Hall of Fame. I don't. The IBHOF is often the only way people learn about special historical fighters.

Nobody can question Nortons historical splash so let him in but there are a few guys who should have been in before him.

[Sonny Carson]

There's no way he beat Holmes that night. Holmes won that fight by atleast two rounds.

[Dempsey1238]

As long as people dont rank Norton over Ali, Fraizer, Foreman, Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Jeff, Johnson, Sullivan, Walcott, Charles, Patterson, Tyson, Holyfiled, Lewis, Corbett, Tunney, Schemling, Liston, Holmes, and a few others. Than I ok with were ever they rank Norton.

[Liston3]

I think he's underrated, he did beat "THR GREATEST" Heavyweight ever. was a titlist back when being the heavyweight champ meant something. and is a hall of famer, yet never gets mentioned when people talk about classic heavyweights