Joe Frazier in some interviews

[garymcfall]

Ive seen Frazier claim in a lot of interviews that he believes he won all three fights against Ali. How can he possibily think he won the Thrilla in Manilla or has he took too many punches to the head? It wasnt as if the fight was won on points, he was stopped.

[Russell]

I feel bad beyond words for the guy. Ali's holding behind the head potentially DID stop him from winning at least one of their fights.

Ali shouldn't of been allowed to get away with that...

[dragosuhail]

i feel frazier had ali's number in a way. i know he lost the second two but when they fought as undefeated fighters he won, then ali resorted to a lot of holding to help him in the second two fights.

and i was even more impressed and amazed to find out frazier had one bad eye, and a stunted left? arm. absolutely amazing.


i mean ali is a legend and rightly so, but frazier i feel is better than him when they were foes.

[Sonny's jab]

He thinks Eddie Futch shouldn't have stopped the 3rd fight, he wanted to come out for the 15th and argued with Eddie to allow him to.
Ali was in the opposite corner telling Angelo Dundee to cut his gloves off, that he couldn't go out for the 15th.

Of course, both trainers ignored their fighters. And the rest is history.

There were no losers in Manila. Both men won by battling harder than men should be expected to. Great fighters, both of them.

[Russell]

He thinks Eddie Futch shouldn't have stopped the 3rd fight, he wanted to come out for the 15th and argued with Eddie to allow him to.
Ali was in the opposite corner telling Angelo Dundee to cut his gloves off, that he couldn't go out for the 15th.

Of course, both trainers ignored their fighters. And the rest is history.

There were no losers in Manila. Both men won by battling harder than men should be expected to. Great fighters, both of them.

Ah... wow...

You're serious?

[My dinner with Conteh]

I think he meant he was (or should have been) ahead on points at the time of the stoppage. Either that or the punches he's taken have made him insane.

[Sonny's jab]

Ah... wow...

You're serious?

Yep. That's what happened.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Yep. That's what happened.


True. Apart from the bit about both actually winning. :p

[Sonny's jab]

True. Apart from the bit about both actually winning. :p

Of course. That part was not to be taken too literally. Ali won.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Of course. That part was not to be taken too literally. Ali won.



I didn't take it literally, but your 'that's what happened' post was a tad exagerrated.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Ah... wow...

You're serious?



Didn't you know that both men won that night? And both men won when they fought in 1974...but only Frazier won when they met in the Fight of the Century. ;)

[mcvey]

He thinks Eddie Futch shouldn't have stopped the 3rd fight, he wanted to come out for the 15th and argued with Eddie to allow him to.
Ali was in the opposite corner telling Angelo Dundee to cut his gloves off, that he couldn't go out for the 15th.

Of course, both trainers ignored their fighters. And the rest is history.

There were no losers in Manila. Both men won by battling harder than men should be expected to. Great fighters, both of them.
Do you really beleive ,if Frazier had answered the bell for the last round ,Ali wouldnt have got off his stool?

[fists of fury]

[quote=Sonny's jab]He thinks Eddie Futch shouldn't have stopped the 3rd fight, he wanted to come out for the 15th and argued with Eddie to allow him to.
quote]

There are probably 5 different (and all credible) versions of this story.
Eddie Futch in an interview with KO magazine stated that he told Joe he was going to stop the fight. Joe stood up, but then sat down again.

The interviewer said that it must have been hard for a proud warrior like Frazier to take, to which Futch replied that it was, but Joe knew that Eddie was right.

[Sonny's jab]

Do you really beleive ,if Frazier had answered the bell for the last round ,Ali wouldnt have got off his stool?

Angelo Dundee and Bundini Brown would have made sure of it.

[Smokin'Joe100]

No i don't think Ali would stay on his stool just because of his own pride. In a way dundee didn't really show a lot of compassion for Ali, he was in a bad state after the 14th and he didnt even think of stopping it. Its like Ali-Holmes, it could have been stopped in the 4th, but he kept letting him go out and get busted up.

I'd like to have seen a 15th in the Thrilla. I think there would be a stoppage. The first heavy shot to land would probably have took either man out.

[fists of fury]

I've heard the two have finally made peace. Is that official? Joe sure had some hate for Ali.

[thunder06]

joe was in bad shape at the end of round 14. i know that ali would have pulled whatever bit of strength he had left to answer the bell for the 15th and probably would have stopped frazier.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Do you really beleive ,if Frazier had answered the bell for the last round ,Ali wouldnt have got off his stool?


Some people believe what they want to believe.

[Sonny's jab]

Some people believe what they want to believe.

Who believes that Ali wouldn't have come out for the 15th though ?

[My dinner with Conteh]

You insinuated that Ali was more likely to quit than Frazier, just because of some comment Ali may or may not have made.

[Sonny's jab]

You insinuated that Ali was more likely to quit than Frazier, just because of some comment Ali may or may not have made.

It's reported that Ali was wanting to quit.
It looked to me as if Frazier was protesting Futch's decision.
(I can only go on what I see, hear and read.)

Dundee and Bundini would never have allowed Ali to quit anyway, so there's no suggestion (from me) that he wouldn't have come out for the 15th.

[My dinner with Conteh]

It's reported that Ali was wanting to quit.
It looked to me as if Frazier was protesting Futch's decision.
(I can only go on what I see, hear and read.)

Dundee and Bundini would never have allowed Ali to quit anyway, so there's no suggestion (from me) that he wouldn't have come out for the 15th.


Ali quit? He didn't even want to quit after round 10 of the Holmes fight. Just more sensationalism from the Ali camp- just like the broken jaw probably happened after the second round. The Ali legend makes for good tales and ripping yarns.

[Street Lethal]

joe was in bad shape at the end of round 14. i know that ali would have pulled whatever bit of strength he had left to answer the bell for the 15th and probably would have stopped frazier.

I think thats what would hasve happened. Ali had been teeing off on Frazier's head.

[Duodenum]

Were Dundee, Pacheco, or Bundini ever quoted as stating that Ali said he wanted to quit before round 15 in Manila? At the end of round 14, Ali was actually knocking Frazier backwards with his punches. If there had been a round 15, Ali would have likely avenged Joe's knockdown of him in the FOTC, and forced Carlos Padilla to stop the contest long before those three minutes were up.

Ali wanted to quit in the first match with Liston, when his eyes were blinded (supposedly by Monsel's solution), but Dundee washed them out, reminded Ali, "This is for the big one Daddy-O!," and swatted Muhammad on the can as he got off his stool for the following round. I think Ali was simply embellishing the legend of Manila by claiming that he was ready to quit himself. They knew they had that match won, and Ali had already driven himself to a 15 round kayo win over Wepner earlier in the year, so he certainly had the capacity to do it again (as he nearly did yet another time to Earnie Shavers later). Ali is the definitive 15 round HW champion in boxing history.

[Sonny's jab]

Ali quit? He didn't even want to quit after round 10 of the Holmes fight. Just more sensationalism from the Ali camp- just like the broken jaw probably happened after the second round. The Ali legend makes for good tales and ripping yarns.

The heat in Manila was a factor, and the pace was brutal. I'm sure he didn't feel the need to quit against Holmes. He could lay on the ropes getting smacked in the head all night, that's the way he was in those years. He was exerting any effort, just getting his brain pummelled. He'd practiced the same thing in sparring.

Yeah, you might be right, maybe everyone is making it up. It becomes part of the story, and the people who were there start believing they saw it/heard it themselves.
Apparently years after the Dempsey-Firpo fight there were dozens of reporters who swore blind Dempsey fell on top of their typewriter. Some of them probably weren't even in the stadium.

[Sonny's jab]

Were Dundee, Pacheco, or Bundini ever quoted as stating that Ali said he wanted to quit before round 15 in Manila?

Wali Muhammad (aka Walter Youngblood) was in the Ali corner and he says, in Thomas Hauser's book on Ali, :

"After the fourteenth round, Ali came back to the corner and told us, "Cut 'em off". That's how tired he was. He wanted us to cut his gloves off. And Angelo ignored him. He started wiping Ali's face, getting him ready for the fifteenth round. We sponged him down, and I gave him a drink of sweetened water, honey and water, from a bottle I'd made up. I dont know if he'd have gone out for the last round or not. Ali's not a quitter, he'd never quit. But I'd never seen him exhausted like that before."

Pacheco says Ali was not going to quit, here in this interesting documentary of the fight :

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[robert ungurean]

Ive seen Frazier claim in a lot of interviews that he believes he won all three fights against Ali. How can he possibily think he won the Thrilla in Manilla or has he took too many punches to the head? It wasnt as if the fight was won on points, he was stopped.
The reasons Joe says he won all 3 fights is because of the condition Ali is in today compared to Joe's. Meaning Joe's punches have more to do with Ali's condition rather than Parkinson's.

[robert ungurean]

[quote=Sonny's jab]He thinks Eddie Futch shouldn't have stopped the 3rd fight, he wanted to come out for the 15th and argued with Eddie to allow him to.
quote]

There are probably 5 different (and all credible) versions of this story.
Eddie Futch in an interview with KO magazine stated that he told Joe he was going to stop the fight. Joe stood up, but then sat down again.

The interviewer said that it must have been hard for a proud warrior like Frazier to take, to which Futch replied that it was, but Joe knew that Eddie was right.
Joe did argue with Eddie about coming out in the last rd.
Matter of fact Joe never let the resentment go against Eddie.

[McGrain]

The reasons Joe says he won all 3 fights is because of the condition Ali is in today compared to Joe's. Meaning Joe's punches have more to do with Ali's condition rather than Parkinson's.


Frazier is on record saying he wants to bury Ali, he'll outlive him and that there. The ultimate f*ck you. Frazier is just not rational when it comes to Ali.

I sympathise.

Frazier really was blind for the 14th...Ali would have come out of that I have no doubt. I've reviewed my earlier resentment for Futch, I think he did the right thing.