Most one-sided loss a #1 contender received from the champion?

[ChrisPontius]

I just rewatched Lewis-Tua and before the fight, the commentators stated that he was the #1 contender. I'm not sure if they were talking about ring magazine rankings or some alphabet ranking, but he was pretty highly regarded anyway. He barely managed to win a single round and basically was dominated.

Any other examples? Tyson vs Spinks could be the most one-sided of them all. Louis vs Schmeling II. Liston vs Patterson II.

[DINAMITA]

I just rewatched Lewis-Tua and before the fight, the commentators stated that he was the #1 contender. I'm not sure if they were talking about ring magazine rankings or some alphabet ranking, but he was pretty highly regarded anyway. He barely managed to win a single round and basically was dominated.

Any other examples? Tyson vs Spinks could be the most one-sided of them all. Louis vs Schmeling II. Liston vs Patterson II.

Ha ha, PAVLIK v LOCKETT obviously! Lockett was mandatory challenger!!

For an undisputed champ v who everyone regarded as the next best at the weight: Hopkins v Trinidad

[TBooze]

Alphabet crap wise: Trinidad/Zulu; Breland/Lee and Chavez/Ahn come to mind.

World Championship wise: Louis/ConnII.

[PowerPuncher]

Mayweather-Corrales
Calazage-Lacy

[SuzieQ49]

Tua and Lewis were scared shitless of eachother, turned into a very boring lackidasical fight that far from lived up to expectations. tua did less and lennox clearly won, but both did hardly anything. i thought tua was going to knock lennox out, tua let me down.




Good thread though, I think a good example is Joe Louis-Max schmeling II

[dmille]

Spinks was the true world champion, Tyson was the contender

[dmille]

Tua and Lewis were scared shitless of eachother, turned into a very boring lackidasical fight that far from lived up to expectations. tua did less and lennox clearly won, but both did hardly anything. i thought tua was going to knock lennox out, tua let me down.

Good thread though, I think a good example is Joe Louis-Max schmeling II

Lewis proved vunerable to the right hand, not the left hook

[booradley]

How about Larry Holmes/Marvis Frazier:admin
I do not remember where the Frazier kid was ranked at the time, but damn, Holmes was all but begging the ref to stop the fight!

[TIGEREDGE]

what about lewis v tyson. tyson was considered the number 1 threat to lewis for a couple of years

Mayweather V Corrales (unification but PBF was Linear champ

Ponce De leon ko 1 V Boom Batista (he was hot property one time)

Lewis V Golota

[albeziel]

Ivan Calderon vs Nelson Dieppa- 120-108 CLEARLY FOR CALDERON ON THREE JUDGES SCORECARDS,

[groove]

Ali v Terrell maybe Patterson.

[Muchmoore]

Spinks was the true world champion, Tyson was the contender

Yeah, by dropping his belt rather than face Tony Tucker, taking on shot Cooney and the ultra dangerous Steffen Tangsted really showed he was the man! :lol:

[dmille]

Yeah, by dropping his belt rather than face Tony Tucker, taking on shot Cooney and the ultra dangerous Steffen Tangsted really showed he was the man!

Help me out here and tell me who gave away the WBC belt in late 96...

[ChrisPontius]

Help me out here and tell me who gave away the WBC belt in late 96...

How is that relevant? Spinks, as much as i like him, by that point was a paper champion who avoided any tough opponent; even dropped his belt for it. Not to mention that he won it in rather controversial fashion. Tyson was fighting every season of the year and knocked all top contenders around. Who was carrying 3 title belts into the ring and who had none?

[Marciano Frazier]

How about Liston-Patterson II?

[ChrisPontius]

How about Liston-Patterson II?
Already been mentioned my friend.


Marciano - Walcott II and Ali - Liston II also apply, although both, especially the latter, had a bad smell to them.



By the way, i'm not just talking about heavyweight, but any weight. So feel free to fill in those. :good

[dmille]

How is that relevant? Spinks, as much as i like him, by that point was a paper champion who avoided any tough opponent; even dropped his belt for it. Not to mention that he won it in rather controversial fashion. Tyson was fighting every season of the year and knocked all top contenders around. Who was carrying 3 title belts into the ring and who had none?

Tyson had three alphabet belt. Spinks had the world championship.

And good job ducking the question...

[McGrain]

How about Benn's destruction of Iran Barkley? KO1, the three KD rule, Barkley had his moments but basically Nigel smashed him all over the ring.

[dmille]

How about Benn's destruction of Iran Barkley? KO1, the three KD rule, Barkley had his moments but basically Nigel smashed him all over the ring.

Any competent ref would have DQd Benn for hitting Barkley when he was down (more than once).

[McGrain]

Any competent ref would have DQd Benn for hitting Barkley when he was down (more than once).

Right. But are you trying to say it's not a one-sided beathing because Barkley got hit when he was down?

[dmille]

Right. But are you trying to say it's not a one-sided [beating] because Barkley got hit when he was down?

Barkely got hit while he was down? By whom? The ref? The round card girl?

I guess that sounds better than saying Benn hit him while he was down (aka the truth).

I said what I was trying to say.

Reading IS Fundamental.

[Mantequilla]

marciano should have been DQ'ed against Walcott.

Just sayin'

[Mantequilla]

Barkely got hit while he was down? By whom? The ref? The round card girl?

I guess that sounds better than saying Benn hit him while he was down (aka the truth).

I said what I was trying to say.

Reading IS Fundamental.

Reported.

[dmille]

Reported.

WTF is that?

[PowerPuncher]

How about Benn's destruction of Iran Barkley? KO1, the three KD rule, Barkley had his moments but basically Nigel smashed him all over the ring.

Wasn't Nunn no1 and the champ? Barkley was coming off 2 back to back losses to Nunn and Duran too

[McGrain]

Barkely got hit while he was down? By whom? The ref? The round card girl?

I guess that sounds better than saying Benn hit him while he was down (aka the truth).

I said what I was trying to say.

Reading IS Fundamental.

:lol: :good

[McGrain]

Wasn't Nunn no1 and the champ? Barkley was coming off 2 back to back losses to Nunn and Duran too

You can't be champion AND #1 contender.

But you may be right, perhaps he wasn't ranked by the WBO.

[Sweet Pea]

Barkely got hit while he was down? By whom? The ref? The round card girl?

I guess that sounds better than saying Benn hit him while he was down (aka the truth).

I said what I was trying to say.

Reading IS Fundamental.[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[dmille]

You don't understand the difference between stating the truth and whining?

[ChrisPontius]

Tyson had three alphabet belt. Spinks had the world championship.

And good job ducking the question...

What question? Whether or not Tyson dropped his belt in 1996 to avoid the mandatory, Lennox Lewis? Yes he did. And what does that have to do with the situation in 1988?

I don't consider someone who refuses to fight any top10 opponent and got the title gifted to him in a fight he clearly lost, the champion. Especially not if there's someone else who is destroying every opponent the champion SHOULD be fighting out there, and has collected the belt that the "champion" dropped to avoid a hard fight.

[janitor]

How is that relevant? Spinks, as much as i like him, by that point was a paper champion who avoided any tough opponent; even dropped his belt for it. Not to mention that he won it in rather controversial fashion. Tyson was fighting every season of the year and knocked all top contenders around. Who was carrying 3 title belts into the ring and who had none?

Fair has got nothing to do with it.

Spinks might have been a poor champion but he was the champion untill sombody beat him.

[dmille]

What question? Whether or not Tyson dropped his belt in 1996 to avoid the mandatory, Lennox Lewis? Yes he did. And what does that have to do with the situation in 1988?

I don't consider someone who refuses to fight any top10 opponent and got the title gifted to him in a fight he clearly lost, the champion. Especially not if there's someone else who is destroying every opponent the champion SHOULD be fighting out there, and has collected the belt that the "champion" dropped to avoid a hard fight.


I don't consider someone [Tyson] who refuses to fight any top 10 opponent and got the title gifted to him, the champion. Especially not if there's someone else [Lewis] who is destroying every opponent the champion SHOULD be fighting out there, and has collected the belt that the "champion" dropped to avoid a hard fight.

[ChrisPontius]

I don't consider someone [Tyson] who refuses to fight any top 10 opponent and got the title gifted to him, the champion. Especially not if there's someone else [Lewis] who is destroying every opponent the champion SHOULD be fighting out there, and has collected the belt that the "champion" dropped to avoid a hard fight.

And when did i claim Tyson was THE champion in 1996?


Like i said, a true, but irrelevant point.

[ChrisPontius]

Fair has got nothing to do with it.

Spinks might have been a poor champion but he was the champion untill sombody beat him.

Yeah well i don't buy that. You can win the title and fight bums or just be plain inactive and still be considered champion. Tunney is still reigning if he were alive i guess. That's one good thing the alphabet titles introduced: you can no longer sit on the title for several years and still be considered champion.

[bizzer07]

calzaghe lacy

[janitor]

Yeah well i don't buy that. You can win the title and fight bums or just be plain inactive and still be considered champion. Tunney is still reigning if he were alive i guess. That's one good thing the alphabet titles introduced: you can no longer sit on the title for several years and still be considered champion.

The lineal title can only be lost through defeat in the ring or retirment.

I am not saying it should be so I am just saying that it is so.

If you disagree then you are going to have to drasticaly rewrite the heavyweight lineage.

Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Willard, Dempsey, all sat on the title.

Are you going to strip them retrospectivley?

[jowcol]

Foster-Rondon came to my mind immediately.
Tho Rondon was the "WBC chump-er...champ" Foster hadn't
lost his title since dismantling Tiger in 68. This may have been
the first stripping of a major title that had ever been done, save
the WBA 1965 Terrell joke. This scrap was brutal payback,
plain and simple...

[Muchmoore]

How is that relevant? Spinks, as much as i like him, by that point was a paper champion who avoided any tough opponent; even dropped his belt for it. Not to mention that he won it in rather controversial fashion. Tyson was fighting every season of the year and knocked all top contenders around. Who was carrying 3 title belts into the ring and who had none?

:good

[Muchmoore]

Tyson had three alphabet belt. Spinks had the world championship.

And good job ducking the question...

So dropping the only belt you have in order to fight much inferior opposition, while another guy comes along unifying all 3 titles in the ring means you're still THE world champion?

No.

[Sam Dixon]

Spinks didn't drop the IBF title, but rather it was stripped off him in Feb of '87 due more to Cooney's refusal rather than what Spinks was refusing to do.

However legitimate one views the Spinks/Cooney fight as being, that was a fight that was in the works for over a year before it actually happened, and when Spinks (and Lewis) negotiated his deal to take part in the HBO unification tournament, he specifically asked for and was granted the right to have one fight that wasn't to be a part of the tournament, which would have been the Cooney fight. Those in charge later (after the fact when Spinks signed his deal) added in a stipulation stating that if Spinks was to defend outside of the tournament, then the fighters involved in that fight (Spinks & Cooney, who had already signed) must agree to continue on in the tournament if they happen to win the fight. Spinks agreed to, as per his earlier deal. Cooney and his team refused to do so in advanced if they won the fight against Spinks, and that was the kicker that started the political ball rolling, which ended with Spinks being stripped by the IBF.

As per his original and agreed to contract with those putting on the tournament, Spinks had every right to pursue and go through with the fight with Cooney, which also earned him a boatload of money more than he would have versus Tucker.

The IBF wasn't the only belt Spinks held at the time, though, as he also held that ugly and transparent "People's Championship" belt that was given to him. Ok, nevermind about that belt, but Spinks did hold the Ring Magazine championship title (in addition to his linear title, if different), and also was presented a belt by The Ring signifying such in the buildup to Tyson/Spinks at a prefight press conference.

[ironchamp]

The lineal title can only be lost through defeat in the ring or retirment.

I am not saying it should be so I am just saying that it is so.

If you disagree then you are going to have to drasticaly rewrite the heavyweight lineage.

Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Willard, Dempsey, all sat on the title.

Are you going to strip them retrospectivley?

If I could I would....unless they continued to pay the sanctioning fees....

I guess the Alpha titles did bring about one good thing. It forced fighters to fight regularly. which I think is good.


Trouble is the alpha titles sometimes give 3rd tier fighters title shots.

[hitman_hatton1]

Spinks didn't drop the IBF title, but rather it was stripped off him in Feb of '87 due more to Cooney's refusal rather than what Spinks was refusing to do.

However legitimate one views the Spinks/Cooney fight as being, that was a fight that was in the works for over a year before it actually happened, and when Spinks (and Lewis) negotiated his deal to take part in the HBO unification tournament, he specifically asked for and was granted the right to have one fight that wasn't to be a part of the tournament, which would have been the Cooney fight. Those in charge later (after the fact when Spinks signed his deal) added in a stipulation stating that if Spinks was to defend outside of the tournament, then the fighters involved in that fight (Spinks & Cooney, who had already signed) must agree to continue on in the tournament if they happen to win the fight. Spinks agreed to, as per his earlier deal. Cooney and his team refused to do so in advanced if they won the fight against Spinks, and that was the kicker that started the political ball rolling, which ended with Spinks being stripped by the IBF.

As per his original and agreed to contract with those putting on the tournament, Spinks had every right to pursue and go through with the fight with Cooney, which also earned him a boatload of money more than he would have versus Tucker.

The IBF wasn't the only belt Spinks held at the time, though, as he also held that ugly and transparent "People's Championship" belt that was given to him. Ok, nevermind about that belt, but Spinks did hold the Ring Magazine championship title (in addition to his linear title, if different), and also was presented a belt by The Ring signifying such in the buildup to Tyson/Spinks at a prefight press conference.

good post.

never knew that.

shame spinks blotted the copybook with the tungstad fight.

but nevermind. :yep

[stevebhoy87]

the ones that spring to mind for me

Sanchez v gomez
Whitaker v ramirez 2
Maywether v corrales
calzaghe v lacy

[Gambino]

Lewis vs Grant

[the cobra]

Hopkins-Trinidad
Louis-Schmelling II
Liston-Patterson II
Mayweather-Coralles
Whitaker-Ramirez II


Duran-Dejesus III was a one-sided fight.

If thes guys were his top contenders, Ali-Williams, Ali-Folley, and Ali-Terrell.

Norton had beaten Ali, so he may have been Foreman's #1 contender when Big George ran over him in two rounds.

Again, I'm not sure if he was the #1 contender, but Dick Tiger punished Rubin Carter quite badly.

[Longhhorn71]

Lewis vs Grant... I concur:

The Champ holds "the Chump" by the back of the head, then
smokes him with an uppercut..

Grant says: "I thought we were fighting under some kind of rules".

Lewis replies: "Welcome to boxing".

[bushboy]

Shane Mosley-Shannan Taylor comes to mind

[BIG DEE]

BIG DEE HERE= Jack Johnson vs Fireman Jim Flynn, TKO in 9 rds. Johnson
scalded Flynn by using him for a punching bag. Hell Johnson even laughed at him while beating him silly. NO CONTEST THIS ONE WINS IT HANDS DOWN.

[ChrisPontius]

If thes guys were his top contenders, Ali-Williams, Ali-Folley, and Ali-Terrell.


Ali-Foley was anything but a one-sided loss. It was about equal on the cards when the KO happened. Of course Ali did out-class him and seemed to lose the rounds while having a few extra gears, but still, it wasn't one sided at all.

[groove]

"The last fight we had was in New York , against Zora Folley . In some ways it was the best fight Ali made, because Folley was a smart man and a thoughtful one in the ring. He was the only fighter we ever met who managed to cut the ring in half on Ali. He'd shuffle from one side to the other when Ali circled and he'd be there, right in front of Ali. A lot of fighters tried that, but they weren't smart or quick enough to do it.

Then Folley surprised us by using a left jab to the belly. This was a tactic that quite a few fighters threatened to use, but no one else ever did. It looks as if it should be effective, because when Ali leans back from a left jab to the head, his belly comes forward. So if you fake the jab to the head and then come in to the stomach you should be able to reach him. Folley did reach him a few times, but after a while it was because Ali wanted him to. Ali was waiting to set him up for a right over that low left hand, and finally he hit Folley with a shot and down he went. When he knocked Folley out he hit him real quick with two right hands—the first one stopped Folley in mid-air and the second one hit him on the way down. They were thrown that fast." Angelo Dundee

[cuchulain]

Does Ali's first title defence count ?

[JohnThomas1]

Can we call McCrory Curry's #1 contender?

[JohnThomas1]

Could Duran be the theoretic #1 for Hearns title after beating Moore and going well vs Hagler?

[JohnThomas1]

Could Duran be the theoretic #1 for Hearns title (i don't count the strip) after beating Moore and going well vs Hagler?

[JohnThomas1]

Tho i don't rate him legit Hagler sure carved Obel up.

[Irish Steel]

holmes cooney?

[Thread Stealer]

Alphabet mandatories:

Roy Jones-Rick Frazier
Bernard Hopkins-Morade Hakkar
Kelly Pavlik-Gary Lockett
Oscar De La Hoya-Patrick Charpentier

[LennoxGOAT]

Lennox-Golota
Lennox-Tua
Lennox-Grant
Lennox-Tyson
Tyson-Spinks

[LennoxGOAT]

holmes cooney?


Have you seen that fight?:huh

[C. M. Clay II]

Ali against Terrell comes to mind.

[cuchulain]

holmes cooney?
It appears you haven't actually watched that fight.

[jowcol]

"The last fight we had was in New York , against Zora Folley . In some ways it was the best fight Ali made, because Folley was a smart man and a thoughtful one in the ring. He was the only fighter we ever met who managed to cut the ring in half on Ali. He'd shuffle from one side to the other when Ali circled and he'd be there, right in front of Ali. A lot of fighters tried that, but they weren't smart or quick enough to do it.

Then Folley surprised us by using a left jab to the belly. This was a tactic that quite a few fighters threatened to use, but no one else ever did. It looks as if it should be effective, because when Ali leans back from a left jab to the head, his belly comes forward. So if you fake the jab to the head and then come in to the stomach you should be able to reach him. Folley did reach him a few times, but after a while it was because Ali wanted him to. Ali was waiting to set him up for a right over that low left hand, and finally he hit Folley with a shot and down he went. When he knocked Folley out he hit him real quick with two right hands—the first one stopped Folley in mid-air and the second one hit him on the way down. They were thrown that fast." Angelo Dundee

1967 Folley was a faded shell.

[Bokaj]

1967 Folley was a faded shell.

I think he looked quite good and put up quite a good fight.