Best 5 all-time Aboriginal boxers!

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

We've certainly had our share of great aboriginal boxers. I reckon our top 5 would read someting like this:

1/ Dave Sands.
2/ Lionel Rose.
3/ Tony Mundine (Snr).
4/ Hector Thompson.
5/ Anthony Mundine (Jnr).

For me, Sands has to be number 1. Dead at 26, Sands still managed to accumulate 97 wins (63 KO), 10 losses (2 KO) and 1 draw. He was about to head over to the USA, and would surely have added a world title to an already impressive collection of Commonwealth & Australian titles.

Rose was 27 wins, 2 losses when he went over to Tokyo and won the WBC & WBA titles from Fighting Harada. He won 6 times as champ, including 3 title defences. Unfortunately, he then ran into a legend in Olivaris, and was probably never the same again. Still his 42 wins from 53 matches remains impressive (sadly though he lost 6 of his last 9).

Like Rose, Mundine Snr racked up a brilliant record only to run into another legend, this time Monzon. Mundine's 80 wins (64 KO), 15 losses (10 KO) and a draw record included more Australian titles than you could poke a stick at. He also won Commonwealth MW & LHW titles. In a different era he would certainly have won a world title.

Hec Thompson's record of 73 wins (27 KO), 12 losses (7 KO) and 2 draws included Commonwealth & Australian titles. It took another legend in Duran to stop him from winning a world title.

Anthony Mundine has put together a handy 33 wins (23 KO) and 3 losses (1 KO), thus far. Being the only active fighter amongst this group he still has the chance to improve on his numbers.

[WhataRock]

You reckon Choc deserves more credit than Harding or Peden?

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Fair argument for Peden (Aboriginal mother / Scottish father). His 25 wins (14 KO), 4 losses (2 KO) and an IBF title are formidable.

Have never thought of Jeff Harding as being aboriginal. If he is, I'd certainly put him ahead of Mundine Jnr.

[WhataRock]

You know I might be wrong but I have been told that by a few people, growing up I never remember thinking he was.
I dont know if they just think that because he live around Redfern these days.

Obviously Choc isnt a pure blood aboriginal, so Robbie should qualify aswell.
I would rank him comfortably above Mundine JR at this stage.

James Swan deserves a mention even though he had a horror pro career.

One of our best amatuers of all time hands down.
2 x commonwealth bronze, 2 x Olympian. Won several international AIBA events, Im sure theres more he did aswell.

[sallywinder]

1/ Dave Sands.
2/ Lionel Rose.
3/ Tony Mundine (Snr).
4/ Hector Thompson.
5/ Ron Richards

Born Randell William Richards, at Ipswich, QLD in 1910, Ron was often ranked by boxing experts as one of the finest boxers ever produced in this country.
He took the Australian middleweight championship in 1933 and held it again from 1936 to 1942. Ron was also Australian light heavyweight champion between 1937 and 1941 and heavyweight champion between 1936 and 1938 and 1940-41. His middleweight battles with Fred Henneberry ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) will long be remembered by boxing fans.
An indigenous Australian, Richards was a good looking, tough boxer and expert counter-puncher His rise to prominence in Australian boxing began when he started fighting in Smally Higgins’s ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) boxing tent at Boonah at the tender age of 15.
Amongst his greatest fights was his victory over Gus Lesnevich ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), who went on to become world light heavyweight champion in 1941. Ron died in Sydney in 1967. he also fought two great fights against the legendary archie moore.....
Ron Richards was inducted into the Australian National Boxing Hall of Fame ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) in 2003.


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

No arguments with RICHARDS. Have read a lot about him, and it's always hard to gage the ones you never saw.

Richards, fighting in the 30's and 40's, probably never got the opportunity to fast track his career like you can now, particularly overseas. From a glance at Richard's long record I couldn't see him having fought once outside Australia.

Coincidently, it seems Richard's, like Mundine Snr, collected Australian titles at various weights up to HW, almost at will.

Richard's 95 wins (57 KO), 26 (8 KO) and 10 draws plus Commonwealth & Australian titles certainly says plenty! In fact, probably enough to put him ahead of Mundine Jnr.

[sallywinder]

youre right CHB...

its hard to compare boxers in different eras. all you can do is measure them in their own eras against quality of opposition. mundine possibly has the potential to be one of the top two, but refuses to fight quality opponents. the ones he has faced, beat him. mundines greatest asset is the lack of boxing talent in oz. if there were more fighters to talk about, less would be mentioned of him, and less credit given.

mundine is a non drinker. richards was a raging piss head. had richards had mundines abstinence...........

[bushboy]

Abstinence, geez while your on the subject of that have a think about how much good it could have done harding or Rose

[gloveup]

Fair argument for Peden (Aboriginal mother / Scottish father). His 25 wins (14 KO), 4 losses (2 KO) and an IBF title are formidable.

Have never thought of Jeff Harding as being aboriginal. If he is, I'd certainly put him ahead of Mundine Jnr.

mate we have had some great aboriginal boxers. even a top 10 would be to hard to call. Sands, Richards and Mundine Snr are mine favourites though. Its alll opinion though.

Dino

[WhataRock]

Why didnt Wally Carr ever fight Tony Mundine?

Were they mates and thats why?

[flamengo]

Dave Sands, as his potential was never fulfilled.
Lionel Rose, had he not been kept at Bantam for sooo long, he may well have been our first dual world champion.
Anthony Mundine, he has the punch, timing and ability to be so much more.
Ron Richards, in todays standards, Middle, Super Middle and LightHeavy belts would have been almost a walk in the park.
Tony Mundine, hs chin has been questioned, so has life on mars. He was a complete fighter.

[r_9-Ronaldo]

Anthony the man Mundine, had the potential to be australia's greatest fighter ever, just didn't have the right tactic

[DaSweetScience]

Great thread.

Whilst waiting for the 100m final I've had a crack at a top 20.

1/ Dave Sands.
2/ Lionel Rose.
3/ Tony Mundine (Snr).
4/ Hector Thompson.
5/ Ron Richards
6/ Anthony Mundine
7/ Robbie Peden
8/ Wally Carr
9/ Lawrence Baby Cassius Austin
10/ Jack Hassen/Cliff Samardin
11/ George Bracken
12/ Graeme Porky Brooke
13/Doug Sam
14/ Elley Bennett
15/Glen Kelly
16/Kevin Kelly
17/ Gary Cowburn
18/Jerry Jerome
19/Johnny Jarrett
20/Brian Roberts

Honorable Mentions : Bobby Sinn, Neal Patel, Dick Blair, Trevor Christian, Big Jim West, Norm Kid Langford, Gary Williams, Steve Dennis, Pat Leglise, Harry Grogan, George Kapeen, Harry Hayes, Phil Khan, Ray Mcgrady, The Sands Brothers, Russell Sands Jr

Works in progress - Daniel Geale, Jamie Pittman, Willie Kickett, Wayne Parker Junior, Robert Toomey, Edgar Wymarra, Jason Crowe, Fred Mundraby

P.S. The Hitman is part anglo part polish

[DaSweetScience]

On the amateur side.

Joe Donovan, Jeff Dynevor, Adrian Blair, James Swan, Justann Crawford, Norman Stevens, Anthony Little, James Swan, Darrell Hiles,

[sallywinder]

Great thread.

Whilst waiting for the 100m final I've had a crack at a top 20.

1/ Dave Sands.
2/ Lionel Rose.
3/ Tony Mundine (Snr).
4/ Hector Thompson.
5/ Ron Richards
6/ Anthony Mundine
7/ Robbie Peden
8/ Wally Carr
9/ Lawrence Baby Cassius Austin
10/ Jack Hassen/Cliff Samardin
11/ George Bracken
12/ Graeme Porky Brooke
13/Doug Sam
14/ Elley Bennett
15/Glen Kelly
16/Kevin Kelly
17/ Gary Cowburn
18/Jerry Jerome
19/Johnny Jarrett
20/Brian Roberts

Honorable Mentions : Bobby Sinn, Neal Patel, Dick Blair, Trevor Christian, Big Jim West, Norm Kid Langford, Gary Williams, Steve Dennis, Pat Leglise, Harry Grogan, George Kapeen, Harry Hayes, Phil Khan, Ray Mcgrady

Works in progress - Daniel Geale, Jamie Pittman, Willie Kickett, Wayne Parker Junior, Robert Toomey, Edgar Wymarra, Jason Crowe, Fred Mundraby

P.S. The Hitman is part anglo part polish

homourable mention....tony lovelock aka; tony dallas. (my godfather)

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Great thread.

Whilst waiting for the 100m final I've had a crack at a top 20.

1/ Dave Sands.
2/ Lionel Rose.
3/ Tony Mundine (Snr).
4/ Hector Thompson.
5/ Ron Richards
6/ Anthony Mundine
7/ Robbie Peden
8/ Wally Carr
9/ Lawrence Baby Cassius Austin
10/ Jack Hassen/Cliff Samardin
11/ George Bracken
12/ Graeme Porky Brooke
13/Doug Sam
14/ Elley Bennett
15/Glen Kelly
16/Kevin Kelly
17/ Gary Cowburn
18/Jerry Jerome
19/Johnny Jarrett
20/Brian Roberts

Honorable Mentions : Bobby Sinn, Neal Patel, Dick Blair, Trevor Christian, Big Jim West, Norm Kid Langford, Gary Williams, Steve Dennis, Pat Leglise, Harry Grogan, George Kapeen, Harry Hayes, Phil Khan, Ray Mcgrady

Works in progress - Daniel Geale, Jamie Pittman, Willie Kickett, Wayne Parker Junior, Robert Toomey, Edgar Wymarra, Jason Crowe, Fred Mundraby

P.S. The Hitman is part anglo part polish

Top list!

GRAEME BROOKE was certainly something special. But never quite managed to fulfill it (head injury was probably the major reason and why he was forced to hang them up).

I remember him ending former WBA champ Claude Noel's career by taking his Commonwealth title (Noel had previously beaten Barry Michael amongst others). At that stage Brooke was 19 wins from 19 starts.

Not sure why Brooke fought Michael 3 months later (may have been a mandatory defence?) - but that was the end of his title.

Brooke was still only 24 when he had his last fight, a challenge for Tinago's (Zimbabwe) Commonwealth title. Brooke suffering his only KO loss, and finishing 21 wins (9 KO), 3 losses (1 KO). Another case of what might have been!

[DaSweetScience]

Couldn't agree more on Porky. It would have been nice to defend his Commonwealth title a couple of times before facing Barry Michael.

Michael was like a cagey spider...Other people would fight and bring the title to Melbourne and he would set the trap and wait. He almost got a Commonwealth title from Billy Moeller and famously got belts from Lester and Porky.

Is Tony Dallas still around by any chance??

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Couldn't agree more on Porky. It would have been nice to defend his Commonwealth title a couple of times before facing Barry Michael.

Michael was like a cagey spider...Other people would fight and bring the title to Melbourne and he would set the trap and wait.

I have a great deal of respect for Michael. He was a ground breaker in many ways. But when other Aussies went to the trouble of bringing titles home he certainly did pounce.

Brooke & Lester should have been better guided and avoided Michael, at least for longer than they did. It's all history now though.

[sallywinder]

tony died 40 years ago. he was a raging alcoholic. look at his record and you can pick his drinking periods.

a godfather (or mother) usually means the parents want them to look after their child if anthing should happen to the parents...

dad was a great mate of tony, and it was a honourary title only....

[DaSweetScience]

Do you know of any footage of Tony in existence?

[PIPO23]

I'm impress with aboriginal atheletes not just boxing. There really good!! Campbell and walker footy. Freeman runnin. Mundine and Kickett boxin. Man, any top aboriginal we should know about that's gonna come up. cuz I am sure they can raise the roof up in boxing for this country. Impressive.

:good

[flamengo]

Anthony the man Mundine, had the potential to be australia's greatest fighter ever, just didn't have the right tactic

He may have the oportunity, even now, to be regarded as rare gem, although, he will not be considered the pinnacle of Aust. boxing. He remains underrated by many, self-professed knuckleheads, regardless, he will have his page cemented in Aust boxng history. Im not religeous, but I prey for the Mundine/Green 2 at lightheavy. It will prove very little, as Green has been too inactive.. although, it may offer Mundine a worthy workout..

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

This post from FLMENGO in another thread relative to DAVE SANDS is too good and too relevant not to include here as well:

Quote: Originally Posted by flamengo
Ive been around soooo many great Australian past fighters, who suggest Dave Sands was a classicly timeless fighter, with the style to accomodate himeslf into any particular era. Jack Rennie remains totally in awe of Sands, Johnny Wheeler, a man I miss greatly, considers Dave to have been well and truly on par with any fighter of the era, and he should know. He had several bad nights, as did 'sugar' Ray. I believe he was well in reach of toppling Turpin, who had lost to Olsen over 15 rounds for the MW title the year after Sands` death.. Sands had been the better man on 2 occasions against Olsen over the distance..

Considering he gained victory over Villemain, who was to conquer LaMotta (at the time Mw champ), Sands must be held in the highest esteem, with only his death erasing numerous potential championship fights/defences from the record books. Cheers.

[sallywinder]

Do you know of any footage of Tony in existence?

no mate, but id love to see some..whats your interest in him..?

[gloveup]

Top list!

GRAEME BROOKE was certainly something special. But never quite managed to fulfill it (head injury was probably the major reason and why he was forced to hang them up).

I remember him ending former WBA champ Claude Noel's career by taking his Commonwealth title (Noel had previously beaten Barry Michael amongst others). At that stage Brooke was 19 wins from 19 starts.

Not sure why Brooke fought Michael 3 months later (may have been a mandatory defence?) - but that was the end of his title.

Brooke was still only 24 when he had his last fight, a challenge for Tinago's (Zimbabwe) Commonwealth title. Brooke suffering his only KO loss, and finishing 21 wins (9 KO), 3 losses (1 KO). Another case of what might have been!


No disrespect but imagine todays boxers up against them. Great posts

Dino

[DaSweetScience]

no mate, but id love to see some..whats your interest in him..?

I'm interested in all the old Aboriginal fighters for the radio show we do on Monday nights. It makes it easier and more legitimate to comment if you have seen the fighting style.

[ipswich express]

Col Graham from my hometown is another good Aboriginal fighter. Had some great fights against top class fighters in his career.

[DaSweetScience]

Col Graham from my hometown is another good Aboriginal fighter. Had some great fights against top class fighters in his career.

Col was pretty cool. I can't believe i forgot him in the honourable mentions. He retired with his Aussie belt intact. I was at Rooty Hill when he put on a hell of a fight with Renato Cornett.

As far as potential and talent lot of people rave about Ray McGrady who beat Hector Thompson at age 16 and when committed was something to see. File under "could have been anything"

[ipswich express]

He also fought In Jin Chi from memory too.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Great thread. Top 20:

1/ Dave Sands.
2/ Lionel Rose.
3/ Tony Mundine (Snr).
4/ Hector Thompson.
5/ Ron Richards
6/ Anthony Mundine
7/ Robbie Peden
8/ Wally Carr
9/ Lawrence Baby Cassius Austin
10/ Jack Hassen/Cliff Samardin
11/ George Bracken
12/ Graeme Porky Brooke
13/Doug Sam
14/ Elley Bennett
15/Glen Kelly
16/Kevin Kelly
17/ Gary Cowburn
18/Jerry Jerome
19/Johnny Jarrett
20/Brian Roberts


Brian Roberts is an interesting & worthy mention at number 20.
Roberts’ 37 wins (7 KO), 29 losses (9 KO) and 7 draws probably doesn’t do him justice. Here’s a few snippets from Roberts’ 15 year record:
1/ Won Australian & NSW titles at various weights.
2/ Challenged for Commonwealth titles in 3 different weight divisions, against AZUMAH NELSON (World champion), PAUL FERRERI (Commonwealth & Australian champion & World title challenger) & JOHNNY ABA (Commonwealth champion).
3/ Early in his career fought a young JEFF MALCOLM (100 career wins, titles galore inc PABA) for 1 win & 2 draws.
4/ Fought PAUL FERRERI (see above) 8 times for 1 win, 1 draw & 6 losses (no shame there – along with Rose & Carothers the best BWs we’ve ever produced).
5/ Had 3 goes with BIG JIM WEST (Commonwealth & Australian title holder) for 2 wins and 1 draw.
6/ Other notable opponents included:
LESTER ELLIS (World champion),
HENRY NISSEN (Commonwealth & Australian title holder),
WILF GENTZEN (Commonwealth & Australian title holder),
RENATO CORNETT (Australian title holder & World title challenger),
CRAIG TROTTER (Australasian title holder & WBF world title),
GUINEA HILLIER (Australian title challenger).
…... and apologies to many of the others who engaged with Roberts!
Compare the list above to some of the padded records of today’s fighters! I don't think Brian Roberts dodged too many!

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Brian Roberts is an interesting & worthy mention at number 20 in your list.

Roberts’ 37 wins (7 KO), 29 losses (9 KO) and 7 draws probably doesn’t do him justice. Here’s a few snippets from Roberts’ 15 year record:

1/ Won Australian & NSW titles at various weights.

2/ Challenged for Commonwealth titles in 3 different weight divisions, against AZUMAH NELSON (World champion), PAUL FERRERI (Commonwealth & Australian champion & World title challenger) & JOHNNY ABA (Commonwealth champion).

3/ Early in his career fought a young JEFF MALCOLM (100 career wins, titles galore inc PABA) for 1 win & 2 draws.

4/ Fought PAUL FERRERI (see above) 8 times for 1 win, 1 draw & 6 losses (no shame there – along with Rose & Carothers the best BWs we’ve ever produced).

5/ Had 3 goes with BIG JIM WEST (Commonwealth & Australian title holder) for 2 wins and 1 draw.

6/ Other notable opponents included:

* LESTER ELLIS (World champion),

* HENRY NISSEN (Commonwealth & Australian title holder),

* WILF GENTZEN (Commonwealth & Australian title holder),

* RENATO CORNETT (Australian title holder & World title challenger),

* CRAIG TROTTER (Australasian title holder & WBF world title),

* GUINEA HILLIER (Australian title challenger).

…... and apologies to many of the others who engaged with Roberts

Compare the list above to some of the padded records of today’s fighters! I don't think Brian Roberts dodged too many!

(Not sure what happened to first attempt at this post - must have been something I drank!)

[DaSweetScience]

Brian Roberts is an interesting & worthy mention at number 20 in your list.

The rankings are far from definitive after Wally Carr. I think from 8-20 the list is very fluid.

[old man]

First of all, Hi ya all..........
Yeah I I have to agree DSS is pretty much on the ball with his list .
I fought 2 in his top ten and 2 in his honourable mentions, but lets not digress in my opinion one of the greatest aboriginal boxers of all time was a young kid called Darcy Ritchie.
If this kid had concerntrated on his career he could of been anything....

[LeonMcS]

Till the day I die I'll always carry a torch for Cliffy Samardin. That he was unbeaten will always remain a tantalising 'what could have been'.

[DaSweetScience]

Hey Old Man,
I have heard about Darcy Ritchie and have also heard about his son coming through in the amateurs.
Who on the list did you fight ?
We would love to chat with you on the show at some stage

[DaSweetScience]

Hey Leon - I agree 150% with you on Cliffy Samardin. A set of the fastest hands in Australian boxing history and still winning the tough man contests in a canter. We interviewed him on the show in 06 and he said after his fight in the States he didn't get the cash he was promised and went walkabout. There must be hundreds of Cliffys that we'll never know about.

[ipswich express]

Hey Sweet Science, is your show available on radio in the Isa?

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

.... in my opinion one of the greatest aboriginal boxers of all time was a young kid called Darcy Ritchie. If this kid had concerntrated on his career he could of been anything.

Good get with Darcy Richie, Old Man. I do remember him, and looked up his record:

Darcy career spanned 23 years (1971 to 1994) with an 8 year break in the middle, for 26 wins (12 by KO), 5 losses (1 by KO) and 3 draws. He went undefeated for the first 13 years!

During the first half of his career all Darcy's bouts were at Festival Hall (Melbourne), back in the TV Ringside days (probably where I saw him). His later bouts were all over Australia.

By his results it looks like he might have lost some of his earlier brilliance after the long break? Perhaps you can tell us more of your own memeries of him Old Man.

[DaSweetScience]

The National Indigenous Radio service has a station in Mt Isa on 100.9FM. We're not sure if they are taking the show. Tune in at 6pm on Monday night and if not give them a call and see if they can put it on. I'm sure Bob Burow, Fred Mundraby and Col Wilson and other Mt Isa boxing people would love to hear it.

You can also listen live online. Go to [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) and click on Koori Radio Live at the top of the page. Monday nights from 6-8pm

We have some random shows archived as well. The Hall of Fame show is a beauty.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[percy davo]

Da sweetscience great knowledge on the koori boxers but one more amature to add to the list is Bradley Hore 2000 olympian(gained a growth spurt couldnt make the weight but stayed on the team and 2004 Olympian Aus champ as well for some years.

[DaSweetScience]

Da sweetscience great knowledge on the koori boxers but one more amature to add to the list is Bradley Hore 2000 olympian(gained a growth spurt couldnt make the weight but stayed on the team and 2004 Olympian Aus champ as well for some years.

An unforgivable oversight. And a Sydney boy as well.:patsch

When I get a moment of solace I will come back with a more comprehensive amateur list. The current one has some gaping holes in it.

[old man]

DSS The ones I fought were Carr,Austin,West,and Hayes.
Now DSS tell me who I am.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Anyone play this game M.R. ??

[old man]

That drunken Kangaroo is not as drunk as I thought.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

The National Indigenous Radio service has a station in Mt Isa on 100.9FM. We're not sure if they are taking the show. Tune in at 6pm on Monday night and if not give them a call and see if they can put it on. I'm sure Bob Burow, Fred Mundraby and Col Wilson and other Mt Isa boxing people would love to hear it.

You can also listen live online. Go to [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) and click on Koori Radio Live at the top of the page. Monday nights from 6-8pm

We have some random shows archived as well. The Hall of Fame show is a beauty.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

DaSweetScience - You really should get M.R. (Old Man) on. He's been there and done it, and will be able to offer plenty to your show.

First you'll need to solve his WHO AM I! But I've given you a flying start with his initials.

[DaSweetScience]

DSS The ones I fought were Carr,Austin,West,and Hayes.
Now DSS tell me who I am.

This is the most exciting game I've played since Hungry Hippo!

You wouldn't have fought in Papua New Guinea by chance?

[old man]

Yeah and Manny Santos in NZ

[LeonMcS]

Your giving us to much rope to hang ourselves with.

[DaSweetScience]

Yeah and Manny Santos in NZ

Former lightweight champion of Australia?

[ipswich express]

The National Indigenous Radio service has a station in Mt Isa on 100.9FM. We're not sure if they are taking the show. Tune in at 6pm on Monday night and if not give them a call and see if they can put it on. I'm sure Bob Burow, Fred Mundraby and Col Wilson and other Mt Isa boxing people would love to hear it.

You can also listen live online. Go to [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) and click on Koori Radio Live at the top of the page. Monday nights from 6-8pm

We have some random shows archived as well. The Hall of Fame show is a beauty.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Yeah mate I've listened online many times. Just wondering if it was available on the radio here. I'll try and find out. PS - I think Col Wilson is in Emerald these days.

Another good Murri boxer up here is Nara Dau.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Psssst - You're on the right track DSS.

[LeonMcS]

The rope is definitely tightening.

[ipswich express]

What was Carruthers like as a ref?

[JOSEY WALES]

What was Carruthers like as a ref? Ippy are you a promoter ?

[ipswich express]

Nah mate. Used to work for one though.

[DaSweetScience]

Psssst - You're on the right track DSS.

I feel like Colombo closing in. Final question.

Did your brother have his fighting nickname "borrowed" by one of the great Will Ferrell characters?

[DaSweetScience]

Solved. Matt Ropis.:happy

Matt with that wealth of first hand knowledge on Koori fighters, it would be great to interview you for a project we are kicking off at the Hall of fame dinner at the MCG this year.

Are you attending by chance?

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Matt, you certainly took on the best Lightweights going around in the 70's, including the four aboriginal boys from the earlier list. In those days blokes didn't seem to duck each other like they do now.

Reckon you'd have a tale or two about the old Festival Hall/TV Ringside days, or when you won the Aust title from Kid Matthews. If you I'd like to share one or two yarns I reckon the readers here would love to hear them mate.

[flamengo]

Matt, you certainly took on the best Lightweights going around in the 70's, including the four aboriginal boys from the earlier list. In those days blokes didn't seem to duck each other like they do now.

Reckon you'd have a tale or two about the old Festival Hall/TV Ringside days, or when you won the Aust title from Kid Matthews. If you I'd like to share one or two yarns I reckon the readers here would love to hear them mate.

Matt, if you would be kind enough, please offer your own insight into the events of Michael/Ropis. 'Hank' Stanley and co. actuated one of the finest matches offered in the 80s for Australian fight fans.

Having spoken on occasion with Frank, he is for myself, a total contrast to the public perception. I personally found him well spoken, articulate, welcoming and generous to accomodate a stranger for the conversations...

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Harry Hayes from one of DSS' lists, and whom Matt beat in 1972, sounds like an interesting character. In the book FIGHTER LADY by Bev Will (of FIGHTER MAGAZINE fame) there are some quotes from Bill Long, Harry Hayes' promoter:

That Harry, I've had some troubles with his fights. We got to the weigh-in for the Vicera fight, and what happens - broken thumb. Did I have trouble that day finding a replacement. Settled for Pressnell and had the devil of a time persuading Stadiums to let him fight for me...he must have been scared or something. There was shouting to his seconds telling them to throw the towel in as early as the 2nd round. Well they did it in the 6th.

and another one:

Two days before the fight Harry's waving his finger at me and says his teeth are aching. So I take him to the dentist and she takes a look at his teeth and nearly dies of shock. They are so bad, broken off at the gums. She had to cut them out 2 days before the bloody bout!

and lastly:

I have him listed to fight Nissen and two weeks before the fight I can't find him! He's gone walk-about. So what do I do? I just sit and wait. Fair dinkum, if I could put Harry in Pentridge Jail and give him rocks to break, I could make a world champion out of him. I wasn't far short of asking the jail Governor to put Harry in for a couple of weeks.

By the way, FIGHTER LADY (by Bev Will) is a great book! Mainly focused on the early 70's it features excellent interviews etc with the likes of Fammo, Rose, Charkey Ramon, Ferreri, Thornberry etc, etc. Best way to get hold of a copy is through [Only registered and activated users can see links] and it only costs about $15!

[old man]

One story DSS about kooris.
I remember when I was 19 and a jockey I went to the Royal Melbourne Show along with two other jockeys and by chance we came across the boxing tent and I took a glove with this little Koori boy who beat the bass drum and looked a pushover
To say he played with me would be an understatement,but because I fulled the tent up, me being a jockey and tried very hard,
It was awarded a draw.
The next year[ 1971] I went to the boxing gym for a few weeks before the show and this time ,Prepared.
I waited till the last day and decended on the boxing tent like a very dark cloud and proceeded to punch shit out of everyone.
I won with 3 first round KO,S and 1 second round one.
I nearly pissed my pants laughing when Sharman asked me to come back and fight on the last card later on, it wasn,t this that made me laugh but he wanted me to fight this cherubic little aboriginal who would be more fitted to a church choir than boxing tent.
So we fought the last fight of the night on the last day of the show which would be the last fight ever held at the RMS.
That little arsehole punched shit out of me, I was awarded a draw if for nothing else be it for trying. Everyone enjoyed the fight and went home happy and that little cherub went on to win 2 Commonwealth titles and 3 Australian titles in 3 different divisions.
Who do you reckon that was?

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Who do you reckon that was?

Give you first crack at it DSS. But I think I've got it covered!

[DaSweetScience]

Tony Mundine?

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Gotta be Mundine, DSS!

Assuming it was him Matt, that cherubic little aboriginal guy still must've been 6 inches taller and 2 stone heavier than you. Sounds like he was born with plenty of talent too!

[teke]

Didnt Mundine Snr win a heap of Australian titles in diff weight divisions, like alot more than 3?

[DaSweetScience]

Or its Baby Cassius.

[old man]

Baby Cassius is right ,and you can ask him about that fight at the RMS he has never forgot it and we got a nice shower to boot as a matter of fact we got more for that tent fight than we did a telivised 4 rounder 2 months later.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Baby Cassius is right ,and you can ask him about that fight at the RMS he has never forgot it and we got a nice shower to boot as a matter of fact we got more for that tent fight than we did a telivised 4 rounder 2 months later.

Top yarn. Must've been some brilliant fights at times in the tents!

Jeez, Baby Cassius has a top record! Twice beat Hec Thompson for a start - no mean feat in itself.

[Angry Fight Fan]

1. Dave Sands
2. Lionel Rose
3. Ron Richards
4. Tony Mundine
5. Hector Thompson

Putting Anthony Mundine above any of these men is blasphomey if you ask me. These guys repeatedly fought challenging opposition and beat them. Dave Sands would be turning over in his grave at the thought of Mundine giving up his title when he was denied his opportunity at the belt.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

The CLASSIC FORUM are running a thread on famous boxing families at the moment. Added the SANDS brothers and thought I'd post it here too, amongst such a relevant thread:

If Australian aboriginal brothers the SANDS aren't the most famous family in boxing history they ought to be! The 5 Sands brothers became known as the Fighting Sands Brothers, and for good reason:

3 of the SANDS brothers won national titles:

DAVE SANDS - wins 97 (63 by KO) losses 10 (2) and 1 draw.
ALFIE SANDS - wins 88 (64 by KO) losses 47 ( and 11 draws.
RUSSELL SANDS - wins 35 (10 by KO) losses 19(12) and 4 draws.

Another brother RITCHIE, also known as Percival, fought for an Australian title amongst his 45 wins (36 by KO) 36 losses (19 by KO) and 7 draws record.

Last, but not least, CLEM, compiled a record of 46 wins (36 by KO), 50 losses (8 by KO) and 4 draws which included winning a state (NSW) title.

DAVE SANDS was by far the stand-out of the brothers winning Australian middleweight, light-heavyweight and heavyweight championships (at one stage holding all 3 simultaneously), and Australasian light-heavyweight and British Empire middleweight championships.

[DaSweetScience]

And lets not overlook the family pedigree continuing with Russell Sands Jr.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[sallywinder]

waters family
thornberry family

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Spot on guys.

I put the WATERS boys up on the CLASSIC thread a day or two back.

I'll put the Russell Sans Jnr one up shortly.

It's good to put some of these Aussies up on the CLASSIC FORUM. Many o/s people have never heard of our local heros. Naturally the SANDS brothers blew them away over there.

[sallywinder]

not sure if you should miss out on the thornberrys....trevor and rick (father and son) are both in qld hall of fame...and noel was a state champ.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

not sure if you should miss out on the thornberrys....trevor and rick (father and son) are both in qld hall of fame...and noel was a state champ.

There's a full chapter in the book FIGHTER LADY (by Bev Will) on the tragedy surrounding Trevor's injury and the lack of support he received until Fighter Magazine went in to bat for him. Don't want to hang out old laundry with names etc. But if you read the book certain people were not painted in a very good light.

By the way, FIGHTER LADY is a bloody good read! Mainly focused on the early 70's it features excellent interviews with the likes of Fammo, Rose, Charkey Ramon, Ferreri, Thornberry etc, etc. Best way to get hold of a copy is through [Only registered and activated users can see links] Best ([Only registered and activated users can see links] Best) $15 I've spent in a long while!

[sallywinder]

cheers CHB....i will order that!!

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Douglas Nicholls probably ought to get a mention here:

Pastor Sir Douglas Nicholls was an all-round sportsman who boxed, played VFL football and also did well at pro foot running.

At 13 Doug worked on a sheep-station. Apparently one of the shearers challenged him to a fight, with the loser to hand over a week’s pay. After six rounds the shearer had had enough, and Doug knew he could fight!

VFL football with Carlton provided Doug with employment during the winter and during summer he joined Jimmy Sharman's Boxing Troupe. I think he also had a very brief pro boxing career.

Sir Douglas also excelled outside of sport. In 1968 he received an Order of the British Empire award (O.B.E.), and in 1972 he became the first Aboriginal person to be knighted.

[DaSweetScience]

Doug Nicholls was one of the greatest men this country has produced.

Going back even further what about this line from Robert Drane's book Fighters by Trade.


At the close of the century the authorities tried to ban boxing. In 1889 Young Griffo and his Melbourne rival, a splendid aboriginal called Young Pluto were arrested and charged with assault and “disturbing the peace” and Griffo was banned from ever fighting in Melbourne again.

If anyone can tell me anything about Young Pluto they get a pat on the back from petty cash.

[DaSweetScience]

Some googling just revealed that Young Pluto was an Afro Canadian so call off the hounds.

I'd be interested if anyone can confirm if Merv "Darkie" Blandon is part indigenous because if so he would rocket into the top 15.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

I'd be interested if anyone can confirm if Merv "Darkie" Blandon is part indigenous because if so he would rocket into the top 15.

Don't know the answer there DSS. Some CV for Blandon though:

Aust featherweight & bantamweight champ with a 51 wins, 8 losses and 8 draws.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

I'd be interested if anyone can confirm if Merv "Darkie" Blandon is part indigenous because if so he would rocket into the top 15.

Had a bit of a look around the Internet. Reckon Blandon probably wasn't indigenous (but hard to be certain). These two shortcuts may be of interest:

1/ There is an article including picture of Blandon at [Only registered and activated users can see links]

2/ There is an article including picture of Blandon's cousin Ken Bradley at [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[DaSweetScience]

Had a bit of a look around the Internet. Reckon Blandon probably wasn't indigenous (but hard to be certain). These two shortcuts may be of interest:

1/ There is an article including picture of Blandon at [Only registered and activated users can see links]

2/ There is an article including picture of Blandon's cousin Ken Bradley at [Only registered and activated users can see links]

The only place that says he is Aboriginal is an interesting chapter on Aboriginal boxing title "The Glory Sport" in Colin Tatz book on Aboriginal sports heroes.

The entire book is on the following link.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I spoke to Arnold Thomas from the Hall of Fame when assembling the rough top 20 and he said categorically no.

Poking around on Boxrec I drilled down to Pat Leglise and went on a trip down memory lane. He was my first live boxing hero and I thought an incredibly underated fighter who if it not were for cuts would have gone further. I remember the hush that used to come over the gym when he walked in and conducted himself like a real pro.

He was the undisputed king of the gym and I was a wide eyed Year 9 fool just loving it all. A few guys in the gym knew how pumped I was for his fight with Flash Malcolm that they took me with them to the Hordern to see him box beautifully to win. We were singing and larking on the way home like it was us that won the fight.

We got the bus out to watch his next fight against Choo Choo Brown and he got starched in one of those mid air knockouts that make it into the Wide World of Sports montages. The bus trip back was a quiet and depressing hell. I could not believe that there was someone out there better than our superhero.

He's inside now and a shell of the man he was but I will never forget the Kempsey warrior in full flight.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

The only place that says he is Aboriginal is an interesting chapter on Aboriginal boxing title "The Glory Sport" in Colin Tatz book on Aboriginal sports heroes.

Poking around on Boxrec I drilled down to Pat Leglise and went on a trip down memory lane.......He's inside now and a shell of the man he was but I will never forget the Kempsey warrior in full flight.

I remember Pat beating Jeff Malcolm & a few years later being stopped by Lester. Pat started his career with a bang, winning about his first 20 bouts. Pity to hear where things have ended up for him though.

On a more positive note, here’s a name for you – REG KING.

Reg was from Lismore, trained and managed by Ray Weatley and fought '69 to '83. He won the NSW featherweight title amongst his 43 wins (5 KO), 30 losses and 4 draws.

Saw a picture of Reg in a magazine and he looks very much indigenous (to me at least).

Pity it’s not easy to post pictures – I know how to post pictures from other internet sites – but not sure if you can just post a scanned picture??

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Here's a picture very relevant to this thread.

The picture below shows (provided the link works) one our greatest ever indigenous fighters Lionel Rose, flanked by Lawrence Baby Cassius Austin (left) and Graeme Porky Brooke (right) - now there's some fire-power in that picture!

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[DaSweetScience]

Here's a picture very relevant to this thread.

The picture below shows (provided the link works) one our greatest ever indigenous fighters Lionel Rose, flanked by Lawrence Baby Cassius Austin (left) and Graeme Porky Brooke (right) - now there's some fire-power in that picture!

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The 3 Gunditjmara warriors together. I read in Against the Odds that the Gunditjmara waged an inch by inch war back in the day. Seems the spirit has seeped into the boxers.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

"The Glory Sport" (Colin Tatz) on Aboriginal sports heroes.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]



Have read the boxing chapter of The Glory Sport and it's very interesting. Some great success stories, but many without fairytale endings, sadly.

There's a good list of Aussie champs division by division in there as well.

I think they mention Blandon as being 1/8 aboriginal in the book.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Here's a picture very relevant to this thread.

The picture below shows (provided the link works) one our greatest ever indigenous fighters Lionel Rose, flanked by Lawrence Baby Cassius Austin (left) and Graeme Porky Brooke (right) - now there's some fire-power in that picture!

Finally worked out how to post pictures!

Here's the one of Baby Cassius, Lionel & Porky that didn't quite make it up last time:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Here's an interesting article (circa 1970) featuring mentions of Mundine Snr, Lionel Rose, trainers Ern McQuillan & Snowy Robbins etc.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[bushboy]

Interesting article couldhavebeen, particularly the mention about professional boxing getting a lot bigger yet, thanks to television.
Im spewing that idiot adam watt went and got caught smuggling drugs, it was going to kickstart aus boxing once again

[DaSweetScience]

That article refers to a beautiful time in Sydney where the inner city was filled with proud Aboriginal professional boxers.

Now its down to the last of the Mohicans, Edgar Brown Sugar Wymarra who lives in Glebe. (who I manage and is making a comeback on Nov 29 btw).

We interviewed former NRL player Joey Williams tonight on his crack at boxing so we could be building up the stocks again.

I ran into Graeme Porky Brooke at the Hall of Fame on Saturday night. A true gentleman and legend.

[old man]

Porky and Cass were at Lionels birthday a few months ago at Warragull and I think that was where that picture was taken.
What a great day that was.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Porky and Cass were at Lionels birthday a few months ago at Warragull and I think that was where that picture was taken.
What a great day that was.

Hope Lionel's doing well. Sounds like the movie/doco about his life is very good.

His wife Jenny Oakes was actually my brother's kindergarten teacher back in the mid 60's.

[DaSweetScience]

Porky and Cass were at Lionels birthday a few months ago at Warragull and I think that was where that picture was taken.
What a great day that was.

Hey Old Man - Share some highlights of the day. I heard it was a great one.

[DaSweetScience]

Hope Lionel's doing well. Sounds like the movie/doco about his life is very good.

His wife Jenny Oakes was actually my brother's kindergarten teacher back in the mid 60's.

Lionel is going to be a the premiere of the doco on Thursday night in Sydney at the Chauvel. His mums funeral was last Friday so he might need some cheering up.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

.....Im spewing that idiot adam watt went and got caught smuggling drugs, it was going to kickstart aus boxing once again

We're all spewing!

Tripped over at the final hurdle it would seem.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Great to see Lawrence “Baby Cassius” AUSTIN, George BRACKEN & Jerry JEROME recently added to the Australian National Boxing Hall of Fame.

BABY CASSIUS, from Perth (WA) and nicknamed by ring announcer Howard Leigh, was Commonwealth light welterweight champ and dual Australian champion. He put together 34 wins (12 by KO) and 12 losses between 1971 and 1986.

BRACKEN, from Geelong (Vic), fought from 1953 to 1962, and was Australian lightweight champion. His career record read 41 wins (25 by KO), 15 losses & 3 draws.

JEROME, from Dalby (Qld), fought from 1908 to 1915, and was Australian middleweight champion. His career record was 39 wins (31 by KO) and 22 losses.

Full list of 2008 Australian National Boxing Hall of Fame Inductees:

Moderns
Charkey Ramon
Lawrence “Baby Cassius” Austin

Non Participants
Gus Mercurio
Jack Rennie

Veterans
George Bracken
Eddie Miller

Old Timers
Sid Godfrey
Jerry Jerome

Pioneers
Bill Farnan
Jack McGowan

Honorary International
Ted “Kid” Lewis

[spidot]

1.LIONEL ROSE
2.Anthony mundine
3.tony mundine
4.lawrence austin
5.tony jones
6.graham wynne
7.shane riley
8.glenn kelly
9.anthony little
10.ron richards

Anthony mundine is not only 1 of our greatest sportsman he is 1 of our greatest boxers stop baggin him cause of the fights he takes he has a good record hes only lost to formidable opponents and if it wasnt for the man we wouldnt have so much interest in the boxing in oz like we do so let go of your personal oppinions of the man and give him credit for his achievements. in my top ten i put in some people like tony jones he fought on the world stage and as far as im concerned even though im from sydney i watched shane riley fight and he has got to be the most impressive boxer iv seen from perth.

[cookie the carr]

Aboriginal boxer murray bradbury could have been more if push the right way he handed CARLOS BALDOMIR a few hidings in sparring while training in the U.S at a L.A gym under the watchful eye of charlie ''dundee'' gergan.

[bushboy]

Why did he never fight over there cookie?

[Rise Above]

1.LIONEL ROSE
2.Anthony mundine
3.tony mundine
4.lawrence austin
5.tony jones
6.graham wynne
7.shane riley
8.glenn kelly
9.anthony little
10.ron richards

Anthony mundine is not only 1 of our greatest sportsman he is 1 of our greatest boxers stop baggin him cause of the fights he takes he has a good record hes only lost to formidable opponents and if it wasnt for the man we wouldnt have so much interest in the boxing in oz like we do so let go of your personal oppinions of the man and give him credit for his achievements. in my top ten i put in some people like tony jones he fought on the world stage and as far as im concerned even though im from sydney i watched shane riley fight and he has got to be the most impressive boxer iv seen from perth.

No room for Dave Sands or Hector Thompson in your top ten ? :blood

Whilst I do agree Anthony is a great talent to have him at number two is laughable.

[cookie the carr]

Why did he never fight over there cookie?Home sick come back to sydney had a few fights with johnny lewis then quit, i seen him have some mad spars at balmain P.C.Y.C, he has moved to darwin he is a copper up there.

[Hmmm]

Samadin gets my award for "could-have-been" boxer. Shame we never saw his full potential.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

No room for Dave Sands or Hector Thompson in your top ten ? :blood

Whilst I do agree Anthony is a great talent to have him at number two is laughable.

We're all entitled to our opinions. But I gotta side with you Rise Above.

Some great fighters in there, but Mundine Jnr ahead of Mundine Snr and Hec Thompson - NO.

[spidot]

No room for Dave Sands or Hector Thompson in your top ten ? :blood

Whilst I do agree Anthony is a great talent to have him at number two is laughable.

opinons are like assholes every one has 1!!!!! it isnt laughable how many men in my top five held world titles???????? 1 other and he is first the others had more losses than anthony has fights that doesnt make them great it makes them hard thats all tony was a good fighter but he didnt get the altimate prize neither did any of the others baby cass is my uncle and have the privilage of living in the same street as tony and i know that they both agree with me on this 1!!!! if Baby cass had have continued boxing and not chased the bottle he would have had his chance to make it huge the USA was in the process of bringing an unknown to australia to fight him do any of you great boxing brains know the name of that man who went on to be one of the greatest boxers who ever lived??????????????????

[Rise Above]

opinons are like assholes every one has 1!!!!!

:good:good

[gloveup]

1.LIONEL ROSE
2.Anthony mundine
3.tony mundine
4.lawrence austin
5.tony jones
6.graham wynne
7.shane riley
8.glenn kelly
9.anthony little
10.ron richards

Anthony mundine is not only 1 of our greatest sportsman he is 1 of our greatest boxers stop baggin him cause of the fights he takes he has a good record hes only lost to formidable opponents and if it wasnt for the man we wouldnt have so much interest in the boxing in oz like we do so let go of your personal oppinions of the man and give him credit for his achievements. in my top ten i put in some people like tony jones he fought on the world stage and as far as im concerned even though im from sydney i watched shane riley fight and he has got to be the most impressive boxer iv seen from perth.

Mate your entitled to your opinion but there are some odd selections in ya top 10. Some very good boxers but top 10? Steve Dennis doesn't rate a mention? Choc in front of Dad? No Hector Thompson etc. Sorry don't agree on much but there yours so sweet.
Dino Billinghurst

[spidot]

Mate your entitled to your opinion but there are some odd selections in ya top 10. Some very good boxers but top 10? Steve Dennis doesn't rate a mention? Choc in front of Dad? No Hector Thompson etc. Sorry don't agree on much but there yours so sweet.
Dino Billinghurst

Mate i agree steve dennis was good but he failed to win a fight out of australia he lost to baby cass and again whilst hector thompson was good i dont see him as great he fought roberto duran and was punished for 8 rounds!!!! i rate anthony over his dad because he has done what his father couldnt do win world titles against world rated boxers eg.danny green , sam soliman, antwon eccles hector didnt make it because i believe the men in my top ten would all punish him in their prime. simple really

[ipswich express]

Do you reckon Tony wouldn't beat Echols, Soliman and Green?