Kostya was shot

[Betty Swollocks]

He announced his retirement after the Mitchell rematch.
Has he looked likely to fight again since the farce in Manchester? Not a sniff.
He had fought a full 12 rounds just twice in 10 years. He was rusty as hell, and shot to ribbons.
He struggled to make weight for that fight in June 2005....even coming in over the limit initially.
Even then, on a level playing field he probably would've been ahead through 11 rounds........

[AnthonyWilliams]

He announced his retirement after the Mitchell rematch.
Has he looked likely to fight again since the farce in Manchester? Not a sniff.
He had fought a full 12 rounds just twice in 10 years. He was rusty as hell, and shot to ribbons.
He struggled to make weight for that fight in June 2005....even coming in over the limit initially.
Even then, on a level playing field he probably would've been ahead through 11 rounds........

It's three years ago. Sh*t, I was on my honeymoon when I watched that fight, and I'm divorced now! Get over it...

[JonOli]

Which fight did you notice that he was shot? There is only one answer to that, and it is "the one he lost to Englishman Hatton in".

[FLINT ISLAND]

he got paid £2,500,000 BY Frank ****** to come over to Manchester to give up his title

if Tyzu had any further ambtions in boxing he would have not gone to the lions den to fight

he went there to pick up his pension cheque so he could have a happy retirement

[TFFP]

Not shot, but not far off would be my analysis of Tszyu that night.

2 and a half years inactivity when you are mid 30's and only a couple of rounds against a china chin don't help.

[faisal]

kostay wasnt allowed to fight his fight, hatton would never give kostay room to fire those bombs of his,if there had been a neutral ref hatton could have been hurt by some of those powerful streight right hands

[GazOC]

Great thread Betty!!:good All the signs were there and it was such and easy call, this forum must be full of people who cleaned up at bookies betting on Hatton at 3/1?

[Fat Joe]

He had fought a full 12 rounds just twice in 10 years.

Was he knocking them all out?

[GazOC]

Yes, but thats a bad thing. Right?

[Betty Swollocks]

that's bollocks Gaz, Hatton was not bigger than 2/1, so an underdog but not a massive one. Talk about fabricating the truth to suit your point.

One of the main reasons Tsyzu's stock was so high is because he beat Judah, but lets face it.....Zab has lost to just about every top level fighter he's faced and in turns out he is nothing special. Sure Tszyu took him out earlier than anyone else....but by hook or by crook Zab has lost to just about everyone. Tszyu was 3/1 dog in that fight.....an indicator of how little he was regarded before the fight...I wonder why.......

[Strike]

Talk about fabricating the truth to suit your point.



Yes, let's talk about that...you are a world expert in the field afterall.

What was your prediction before the fight again?

[Beeston Brawler]

Go and watch some boxing.

The reason why Tszyu had only boxed 12 rounds in the past decade was because he was hammering everybody :deal

OK - not the peak version, but was certainly a better version of himself than the version of Mosley that lost a close one to Cotto.

[Betty Swollocks]

Yes, let's talk about that...you are a world expert in the field afterall.

What was your prediction before the fight again?

Tszyu inside 2 maybe 3, but I got it wrong and Hatton turned out to be better than the WBU turkey I thought he was.
I didn't listen to 2 friends who are pro punters, they were on Hatton for large for some of the reasons outlined...but I didn't listen. I think we can look back now and see they were spot-on. You get some right and get some wrong. Hatton has been a top 30 p4p fighter and I will never deny that.
Still, I also didn't account for a ridiculous hometown ref, that's true.

[GazOC]

that's bollocks Gaz, Hatton was not bigger than 2/1, so an underdog but not a massive one. Talk about fabricating the truth to suit your point.

One of the main reasons Tsyzu's stock was so high is because he beat Judah, but lets face it.....Zab has lost to just about every top level fighter he's faced and in turns out he is nothing special. Sure Tszyu took him out earlier than anyone else....but by hook or by crook Zab has lost to just about everyone. Tszyu was 3/1 dog in that fight.....an indicator of how little he was regarded before the fight...I wonder why.......
I'll treat that first remark with contempt it deserves coming from you.:lol:

Zab is still competitive in a very strong welterweight division 7 years after Zoo flattened him in 2 rounds, Zab was undefeated at the time and Americas "next big thing".

In the first Mitchell fight Zoo in 2001 had stopped is man on an injury (knee??) in the 7th round, 3 years later in the fight before Hatton he flattened Mitchell in 3. The form at a shot fighter?

[TFFP]

That win over Mitchell doesn't actually tell us a great deal about anything, other than Tszyu still had timing and power - which is obvious.

You can get away with that against a glass jawed Mitchell, he didn't need to show us any other facets of his game during what was a TWO and a HALF YEAR lay off.

[GazOC]

I just remembered I had Hatton on points at 11/2 at a bookies outside the venue. Based on that, Hatton was almost certainly greater than 5/2 to win by any means.

[FLINT ISLAND]

whatever the Tsyzu was that night

I think it's fair to say Hatton desrves credit for that victory

that night - 2005 - was Hattons peak

that night - was his greatest ever win

maybe prime for prime - it would be a different result

but that night belonged to hatton - it was a changing of the guard

ever since that night Hatton at his peak = he has been gradually eroding as a fighter and now I dont think there is much left - he is one more fight from being old and shot

["TKO"]

He announced his retirement after the Mitchell rematch.
Has he looked likely to fight again since the farce in Manchester? Not a sniff.
He had fought a full 12 rounds just twice in 10 years. He was rusty as hell, and shot to ribbons.
He struggled to make weight for that fight in June 2005....even coming in over the limit initially.
Even then, on a level playing field he probably would've been ahead through 11 rounds........

Have you really got nothing better to do? Christ, how about watching some telly or go have a w*nk?

[GazOC]

That win over Mitchell doesn't actually tell us a great deal about anything, other than Tszyu still had timing and power - which is obvious.

You can get away with that against a glass jawed Mitchell, he didn't need to show us any other facets of his game during what was a TWO and a HALF YEAR lay off.

I agree the power but timing is one of the first things a fighter struggles with after a layoff. Wheres is this two and half year layoff, are you just going to pretend the fights that don't suit your arguement did n't happen?

The fact is Zoo did better with Mitchell in 2004 (6 months before the Hatton fight) than he did in 2001 and Mitchell was undefeated himself in between those two fights.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Have you really got nothing better to do? Christ, how about watching some telly or go have a w*nk?

Or maybe go shopping for some new pink clothes:lol: :rofl

[Betty Swollocks]

I'll treat that first remark with contempt it deserves coming from you.:lol:

Zab is still competitive in a very strong welterweight division 7 years after Zoo flattened him in 2 rounds, Zab was undefeated at the time and Americas "next big thing".

In the first Mitchell fight Zoo in 2001 had stopped is man on an injury (knee??) in the 7th round, 3 years later in the fight before Hatton he flattened Mitchell in 3. The form at a shot fighter?

Jeff Lacy was also American's next big thing. Nuff said.

Zab may be competitive....but he loses every time against the top boys. He should not get any more big paydays....enough is enough.

I said all along Mitchell was overrated as fuck, but accept most held him in higher regard....but nodoby made him a top 10 p4p fighter, surely?
Tszyu was overrated to begin with, and then consider when he's over the hill.......
I mean....a younger Vince Phillips knocked senseless a prime Tszyu.

[TFFP]

I agree the power but timing is one of the first things a fighter struggles with after a layoff. Wheres is this two and half year layoff, are you just going to pretend the fights that don't suit your arguement did n't happen?

The fact is Zoo did better with Mitchell in 2004 (6 months before the Hatton fight) than he did in 2001 and Mitchell was undefeated himself in between those two fights.
Ok, he had 3 rounds in 2 and half years. 3 non-testing rounds, where Mitchell went down more times than Trotter on his boyfriend and his boyfriends boyfriend.

The point remains. You can't be sure about several facets of a fighters game when he is so inactive at the best of times, nevermind if he is mid 30's when you'd expect a 140lb fighter to be some way past peak. 3 rounds isn't enough to conclude anything either way, but logic would suggest Tszyu was noway near peak and hence he didn't even bother with a rematch despite dodgy circumstances.

[Betty Swollocks]

Or maybe go shopping for some new pink clothes:lol: :rofl

:lol:
listen cunt, I'm sitting watching the olympics cheering against Britain, in about an hour i'll go out...maybe pink shirt n all....and can pick up practically anything I want, meanwhile you will be sitting in your rocking chair pulling yourself off to the memory of sitting in a taxi next to Colin Jones' wee girl and a videotape of Enzo blowing out Sergei Valjudinovs in 1.

[GazOC]

Who isn't "overated"??? Mitchell wasn't P4P but he was Zoo number 1 contender.

I agree with TKO, put Hatton-Mayweather on and treat yourself to a wank.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Ok, he had 3 rounds in 2 and half years. 3 non-testing rounds, where Mitchell went down more times than Trotter on his boyfriend and his boyfriends boyfriend.

The point remains. You can't be sure about several facets of a fighters game when he is so inactive at the best of times, nevermind if he is mid 30's when you'd expect a 140lb fighter to be some way past peak. 3 rounds isn't enough to conclude anything either way, but logic would suggest Tszyu was noway near peak and hence he didn't even bother with a rematch despite dodgy circumstances.

Trotter probaly goes down on Hatton:rofl :rofl :rofl

[GazOC]

Ok, he had 3 rounds in 2 and half years. 3 non-testing rounds, where Mitchell went down more times than Trotter on his boyfriend and his boyfriends boyfriend.

The point remains. You can't be sure about several facets of a fighters game when he is so inactive at the best of times, nevermind if he is mid 30's when you'd expect a 140lb fighter to be some way past peak. 3 rounds isn't enough to conclude anything either way, but logic would suggest Tszyu was noway near peak and hence he didn't even bother with a rematch despite dodgy circumstances.

No ones saying Zoo wasn't past his peak, he was 34 FFS but some cresit needs to be given for Hattons win instead of all this pulling apart of (the now apparently "overated":roll:) Zoos career.

[TFFP]

No ones saying Zoo wasn't past his peak, he was 34 FFS but some cresit needs to be given for Hattons win instead of all this pulling apart of (the now apparently "overated":roll:) Zoos career.
Yeah, its still his best win my miles. Unfortunately a slight (and I'm being kind here) edge is taken off with Uncle Dave's antics and all the foul play.

Still, good win. Best British win of the last 20 years - get the fuck outta here.

[GazOC]

Tszyu was overrated to begin with,

Thats your best one in while, you're so desperate pull down Hattons win its laughable.:patsch

[FLINT ISLAND]

:lol:
listen cunt, I'm sitting watching the olympics cheering against Britain, in about an hour i'll go out...maybe pink shirt n all....and can pick up practically anything I want, meanwhile you will be sitting in your rocking chair pulling yourself off to the memory of sitting in a taxi next to Colin Jones' wee girl and a videotape of Enzo blowing out Sergei Valjudinovs in 1.

where you going out - the local gay bar - in your pink shirt

of course you can pick up anything - you live in one of them poor third world countrys dont you?

my mate goes over to Thailand every year and he said you can be as ugly as Ricky Hatton and still get any girl you want - so its no big achievement

you will pick up something ok - HIV probaly fucking around with all them cheap whores

[TFFP]

where you going out - the local gay bar - in your pink shirt

of course you can pick up anything - you live in one of them poor third world countrys dont you?

my mate goes over to Thailand every year and he said you can be as ugly as Ricky Hatton and still get any girl you want - so its no big achievement

you will pick up something ok - HIV probaly fucking around with all them cheap whores
:rofl

Now now ladies.

[GazOC]

Yeah, its still his best win my miles. Unfortunately a slight (and I'm being kind here) edge is taken off with Uncle Dave's antics and all the foul play.

Still, good win. Best British win of the last 20 years - get the fuck outta here.

I don't remember saying that either? I must be getting Alziemers....;)

You know my views on the foul play, American boxers have been roughing up Brits for decades and its admired as being part of sport and gets lamented that the Brits arn't savvy enough to relaliate. Zoo and Hatton were involved in a tough fight, thats just boxing sometimes.

[Betty Swollocks]

where you going out - the local gay bar - in your pink shirt

of course you can pick up anything - you live in one of them poor third world countrys dont you?

my mate goes over to Thailand every year and he said you can be as ugly as Ricky Hatton and still get any girl you want - so its no big achievement

you will pick up something ok - HIV probaly fucking around with all them cheap whores

Not exactly a third world country :think , more like one of the strongest economies on earth. Not like Swanseeee then eh.
Can't argue with the rest of your post though.

Maybe I'll stay here and argue with you cunts instead.

[TFFP]

On the subject of shirts I'm wearing a multi-coloured striped shirt to work today, no tie

The colours are approximately orange, white, brown, purple, light blue, white, green with a hint of black to break it up

Shouldn't be considered as gay as a pink shirt IMO

[FLINT ISLAND]

Not exactly a third world country :think , more like one of the strongest economies on earth. Not like Swanseeee then eh.
Can't argue with the rest of your post though.

Maybe I'll stay here and argue with you cunts instead.

what country are you in exactly?

I honestly dont know

[Betty Swollocks]

TFFP are you actually British, and if so where from? If you don't mind.

[GazOC]

On the subject of shirts I'm wearing a multi-coloured striped shirt to work today, no tie

The colours are approximately orange, white, brown, purple, light blue, white, green with a hint of black to break it up

Shouldn't be considered as gay as a pink shirt IMO
You can wear anything in that neck of the woods a still look better than the locals, I've been to Finland and Norway and they all dress like complete cunts.

[TFFP]

My mum is "British"

My dad is Icelandic

Colin Jones

I lived in Manchester then most recently Cardiff until I was 19

I moved 2 years ago - because I got a job offer

I was also disillusioned with Britain

[TFFP]

You can wear anything in that neck of the woods a still look better than the locals, I've been to Finland and Norway and they all dress like complete cunts.
Firstly, don't talk about Finnish. Those cunts are nothing to do with anything and should not even be considered real Scandinavian because no fucker understands them and they spend all their time in jacuzzis.

What do they dress in Norway? :think

[Betty Swollocks]

You can wear anything in that neck of the woods a still look better than the locals, I've been to Finland and Norway and they all dress like complete cunts.

:-( shocking attitude. By that do you mean they don't wear shell suits?

Flint - Singapore right now, most of the time i'm in Hong Kong. Miles better than the shitehole that is the UK.

[FLINT ISLAND]

My mum is "British"

My dad is Icelandic

Colin Jones

I lived in Manchester then most recently Cardiff until I was 19

I moved 2 years ago - because I got a job offer

I was also disillusioned with Britain

you lived in Cardiff - thats why you like Joe Calzaghe so much.

why did you mention Colin Jones there????

[FLINT ISLAND]

:-( shocking attitude. By that do you mean they don't wear shell suits?

Flint - Singapore right now, most of the time i'm in Hong Kong. Miles better than the shitehole that is the UK.

you probaly right

my mate recommeded I go to Thailand because it would blow my mind

its a long way a way though

is Singapore anywhere near Thailand?

the thing is if you do anything wrong in a place like Singapore they will give you 100 lashes of the whip

[TFFP]

Betty, what do you do out there except bone those filthy sorts? Job wise

[Betty Swollocks]

you probaly right

my mate recommeded I go to Thailand because it would blow my mind

its a long way a way though

is Singapore anywhere near Thailand?

the thing is if you do anything wrong in a place like Singapore they will give you 100 lashes of the whip

Yeah Singapore to Bangkok can only be a couple of hours. Indeed they are very anal about some things, not about others you might not expect.
Thailand is my favourite country, and that's without any interest in working girls...there is a lot more to it. What's the difference going there or to Mallorca? You need to get on a place for both....sure the jouney time and cost of it is more to Asia....but once there it's cheaper.

[GazOC]

:-( shocking attitude. By that do you mean they don't wear shell suits?

Flint - Singapore right now, most of the time i'm in Hong Kong. Miles better than the shitehole that is the UK.

Offended/ shocked AGAIN Betty? You are delicate little one on the quiet, arn't you?

By that I mean they like brown cords and green jumpers. I've nothing against either country but neither have any dress sense.

[Max Molyneux]

He was a once a year champ who was getting even more Inactive due to Injuries and was on the slide. Still a good win for Ricky, but he never really fought anyone good until Mayweather.

He fully capatilised on his popularity and made alot of money still though.

[trotter]

He was a once a year champ who was getting even more Inactive due to Injuries and was on the slide. Still a good win for Ricky, but he never really fought anyone good until Mayweather.

He fully capatilised on his popularity and made alot of money still though.

To be fair, your definition of good is very, very loose

Most guys that get a legitimate belt are 'good' I'd suggest, and he beat plenty of them

Floyd Mayweather is way, way, way better than 'good' - he's a virtuoso

[JonOli]

The Ring rankings

JR. Welter top ten rankings

Kostya Tszyu ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Champion

1 Arturo Gatti ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
2 Vivian Harris ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
3 Floyd Mayweather Jr. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
4 Sharmba Mitchell ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
5 Miguel Angel Cotto ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
6 Ricky Hatton ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
7 DeMarcus Corley ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
8 Lovemore N'dou ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
9 Jesse James Leija ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
10 Oktay Urkal ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


P4P Top ten
1 Bernard Hopkins ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
2 Floyd Mayweather Jr. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
3 Kostya Tszyu ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
4 Ronald (Winky) Wright ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
5 Manny Pacquiao ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
6 Juan Manuel Marquez ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
7 Marco Antonio Barrera ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
8 Erik Morales ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
9 Glen Johnson ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
10 Antonio Tarver ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


At the end of the day it was a real turn up of a result, and one of the best by a British boxer in recent years.

[Cobra33]

KT Had been shot before the Mitchell rematch.And mitchell does have a glass chin.

Hell KT looked horrible in the Hatton bout.He was lured to England by money and Hatton DID NOT beat a peak KT.How KT can be considered not to far removed from his peak at the advanced age of 37/38 and numerous injuries (not to mention inactivity) is just foolish.
You goona tell me if Hatton was fighting at age 38 he would be just as good as when he was 28?


And I'll tell you Hatton fans something else:Hatton is LUCKY he met Vince Phillips when Phillips was way past his prime because if matched prime for prime Hatton would have gotten knocked out.Hell Phillips still managed to shake Hatton in there bout!

[Beeston Brawler]

It was more than shake, believe me. But you forget to mention that Hatton boxed his ears off! Phillips was very underrated but was past it by the time Ricky ran into him.

[GazOC]

Hell KT looked horrible in the Hatton bout.He was lured to England by money and Hatton DID NOT beat a peak KT.How KT can be considered not to far removed from his peak at the advanced age of 37/38 and numerous injuries (not to mention inactivity) is just foolish.
You goona tell me if Hatton was fighting at age 38 he would be just as good as when he was 28?


Who has said Hatton beat a peak Zoo? The debate is just how 'shot' (that over used word) Zoo was, IMHO he was past his prime but not shot, the formline between the two Mitchell fights seems to support this.

Yep, Phillps did shake Hatton on the way to losing but its a boxing match you know? These things happen....

[Cobra33]

And how shot was Phillips?? WAY WAY shot.

[GazOC]

WAY, WAY shot? Is that, like, really really really shot?

[Cobra33]

I believe Phillips was 40 years old by the time he fought Hatton.
Hatton didn't fight any good boxer's in there primes.

[BoppaZoo]

Ill give you a stat that really tells the story between the Two fighters.

Tszyu Age and Last 5 fight record
R.Mayweather 34 years old (4-1-0) Tszyu 25 years old
J.Bergman 26 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 26 years old
V.Phillips 34 years old (3-2-0) Tszyu 27 years old
R.Ruelas 27 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 28 years old
D.Hurtado 26 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 28 years old
MA.Gonzalez 29 years old (3-1-1) Tszyu 29 years old
JC.Chavez 38 years old (3-2-0) Tszyu 31 years old
S.Mitchell 31 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 32 years old
O.Urkal 31 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 32 years old
Z.Judah 24 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 33 years old
B.Tackie 29 years old (4-1-0) Tszyu 34 years old
S.Mitchell 34 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 35 years old
R.Hatton 27 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 36 years old

Now thats just a few of the fights

Hatton
F.Pendleton 38 years old (3-1-1) Hatton 23 years old
E.Magee 31 years old (5-0-0) Hatton 24 years old
V.Phillips 40 years old (3-2-0) Hatton 25 years old
B.Tackie 30 years old (3-2-0) Hatton 25 years old
M.Stewart 26 years old (4-1-0) Hatton 26 years old
R.Oliviera 34 years old (4-1-0) Hatton 26 years old
K.Tszyu 36 years old (5-0-0) Hatton 27 years old
C.Maussa 34 years old (3-2-0) Hatton 27 years old
L.Collazo 25 years old (5-0-0) Hatton 28 years old
J.Urango 26 years old (4-0-1) Hatton 28 years old
JL.Castillo 34 years old (4-1-0) Hatton 28 years old
F.Mayweather 30 years old (5-0-0) Hatton 29 years old
J.Lazcano 33 years old (4-1-0) Hatton 29 years old

[JonOli]

You goona tell me if Hatton was fighting at age 38 he would be just as good as when he was 28?


Considering you totally lied about Tszyu's age in your post, your post lacks any creditably whatsoever. In fact I would say most of it is nothing more then bitter, and twisted lies.

The Ring rankings


JR. Welter top ten rankings

Kostya Tszyu ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), Champion

1 Arturo Gatti ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
2 Vivian Harris ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
3 Floyd Mayweather Jr. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
4 Sharmba Mitchell ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
5 Miguel Angel Cotto ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
6 Ricky Hatton ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
7 DeMarcus Corley ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
8 Lovemore N'dou ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
9 Jesse James Leija ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
10 Oktay Urkal ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


P4P Top ten
1 Bernard Hopkins ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
2 Floyd Mayweather Jr. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
3 Kostya Tszyu ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
4 Ronald (Winky) Wright ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
5 Manny Pacquiao ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
6 Juan Manuel Marquez ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
7 Marco Antonio Barrera ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
8 Erik Morales ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
9 Glen Johnson ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
10 Antonio Tarver ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

:deal

Read and weep some of you anti English brigade, and whoever else has it in for Hatton, for whatever reasons. It was years ago; get over it, move on!

Tszyu was pretty inactive during the period, and in his mid 30s; that is all anybody can say for sure! By that we can guess that he wasn't at his peak. It's impossible to judge his status (in regards to how far removed he was from prime) by fights because he wasn't fighting much. The fights he was having, he still looked exceptional in. If people want to judge by fights, then Tszyu looks very good around this period with excellent timing and power in the defeat of Mitchel; just 6 months prior to facing Hatton. There is absolutely nothing else to go by. It's simply people, with agendas, making things up out of hate.

[JonOli]

Ill give you a stat that really tells the story between the Two fighters.



Yes, Hatton often fought older fighters because it may give his youth an an advantage. It's one of ******s tactics. Whats new Auz, that nobody didn't already know.

[BoppaZoo]

Yeah it just goes to show that when two fighters get in the ring any one of them has a chance.

Tszyu was getting old and all i ment by it that Hatton fought the fight of his life.
And like Kostya said on the night no excuses the better man won on the night.
Even though i feel on neuteral ground and both fighters in there Prime might be a different kettle of fish. I think after a few more title wins Hatton will go to the HOF as will Tszyu.

But for some to say Tszyu was shot is untrue. He still was smarter and had the bigger punch and better boxing ability its just Hatton came with a game plan to smoother it all and it worked.

I still think though that Tszyu after the shoulder reconstruction wasnt the same as he was before 2003.

[JonOli]

Yea, thats a fair viewpoint.

["TKO"]

He was a once a year champ who was getting even more Inactive due to Injuries and was on the slide. Still a good win for Ricky, but he never really fought anyone good until Mayweather.

He fully capatilised on his popularity and made alot of money still though.

This comment is just plain retarded. So top top 15-20 in your own division isn't "good" (Magee, Phillips, Oliveira). OK. Top 10 in your own division isn't "good" (Tackie, Lazcano, Collazo). Hmm... OK. Top 10 pound for pound isn't "good" (Tszyu, Castillo). WTF??? So are we saying that the p4p #1 is the only good fighting in boxing. Poor old Cotto, Margarito, Vazquez, Calzaghe, Hopkins etc... they must sure be shit!!!

["TKO"]

Ill give you a stat that really tells the story between the Two fighters.

Tszyu Age and Last 5 fight record
R.Mayweather 34 years old (4-1-0) Tszyu 25 years old
J.Bergman 26 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 26 years old
V.Phillips 34 years old (3-2-0) Tszyu 27 years old
R.Ruelas 27 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 28 years old
D.Hurtado 26 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 28 years old
MA.Gonzalez 29 years old (3-1-1) Tszyu 29 years old
JC.Chavez 38 years old (3-2-0) Tszyu 31 years old
S.Mitchell 31 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 32 years old
O.Urkal 31 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 32 years old
Z.Judah 24 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 33 years old
B.Tackie 29 years old (4-1-0) Tszyu 34 years old
S.Mitchell 34 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 35 years old
R.Hatton 27 years old (5-0-0) Tszyu 36 years old

Now thats just a few of the fights

Hatton
F.Pendleton 38 years old (3-1-1) Hatton 23 years old
E.Magee 31 years old (5-0-0) Hatton 24 years old
V.Phillips 40 years old (3-2-0) Hatton 25 years old
B.Tackie 30 years old (3-2-0) Hatton 25 years old
M.Stewart 26 years old (4-1-0) Hatton 26 years old
R.Oliviera 34 years old (4-1-0) Hatton 26 years old
K.Tszyu 36 years old (5-0-0) Hatton 27 years old
C.Maussa 34 years old (3-2-0) Hatton 27 years old
L.Collazo 25 years old (5-0-0) Hatton 28 years old
J.Urango 26 years old (4-0-1) Hatton 28 years old
JL.Castillo 34 years old (4-1-0) Hatton 28 years old
F.Mayweather 30 years old (5-0-0) Hatton 29 years old
J.Lazcano 33 years old (4-1-0) Hatton 29 years old

Yeah it says that Tszyu fought exceptional opposition. Something we all already know. It tells us that Tszyu is a modern great and a definite hall of famer. Again, something we already know. So Hatton's last 13 opponents (going back to his prospect days) have a combined last five fights record of 52-11-2. Not exactly shabby.

There is also some selective editing going on here. For example, Aldo Rios (29), Rowsell (29), Vilches (28), Smith (29) are left out of Hatton's list, while Mitchell 2 (35), Leija (36), Grove (36) are left out of Tszyu's.

Hatton's list shows a mix of youth and experience which is prevalent in any world list, for example today's Ring p4p top 10:

Pac (29)
Calzaghe (36)
JM Marquez (34)
Hopkins (43)
Vazquez (31)
Margo (30)
Pavlik (26)
Mijares (26)
Rafa Marquez (33)
Cotto (27)

In order to take any context from the above, you have to look at the fighter's world ranking at the time. If a guy in his 30s has gone 3-2 fighting exclusively top 10 opponents, he may be a better name than a 26-year-old who has gone 5-0 fighting cadavers.

["TKO"]

Yeah it just goes to show that when two fighters get in the ring any one of them has a chance.

Tszyu was getting old and all i ment by it that Hatton fought the fight of his life.
And like Kostya said on the night no excuses the better man won on the night.
Even though i feel on neuteral ground and both fighters in there Prime might be a different kettle of fish. I think after a few more title wins Hatton will go to the HOF as will Tszyu.

But for some to say Tszyu was shot is untrue. He still was smarter and had the bigger punch and better boxing ability its just Hatton came with a game plan to smoother it all and it worked.

I still think though that Tszyu after the shoulder reconstruction wasnt the same as he was before 2003.

This is a fair and balanced viewpoint from a relative neutral not driven by some insane agenda. Others on this forum could take note.

[warrior85]

3 years ago stop bitchin junior

[TFFP]

JonOli - why do you always post ring rankings like it conclusively proves anything? They are just as much opinion as anything anybody on here posts

Besides, Castillo was ranked p4p when Hatton fought him and we all know he was well past it.

[GazOC]

JonOli - why do you always post ring rankings like it conclusively proves anything? They are just as much opinion as anything anybody on here posts

Besides, Castillo was ranked p4p when Hatton fought him and we all know he was well past it.
Thats just not true. The Ring rankings are compiled by a panel of experts, are respected and have to be justified within the sport. People on here could post any old crap, get no respect and don't have to justify their lists to the 'great and good' of the sport.

[TFFP]

Thats just not true. The Ring rankings are compiled by a panel of experts, are respected and have to be justified within the sport. People on here could post any old crap, get no respect and don't have to justify their lists to the 'great and good' of the sport.
Who the hell are the great and good of the sport? They are a bunch of twats that have no credibility anyway - as seen by them taking it up the arse from Golden Panties as soon as he came calling.

They are just people, with opinions. There are more knowledgable posters on this board than some of these experts.

[GazOC]

Who the hell are the great and good of the sport? They are a bunch of twats that have no credibility anyway - as seen by them taking it up the arse from Golden Panties as soon as he came calling.

They are just people, with opinions. There are more knowledgable posters on this board than some of these experts.

JonOlis Ring rankings were made before Golden Boy took over the Ring. Even after Golden Boy took over there has been no obvious 'fixing' going on, much to the disappointment of the conspiracy theorists.

The Ring rankings are made by a panel, this alone helps ensure that individual bias is minimized, you just don't get that when one person puts a list together. Like it or not those Ring rankings are more valid and carry more importance than anyone who posts on here. Even you.

You may be able to pot shot and criticize a couple of placings at a few weighs but as a complete body of work over all the boxers at all the weights across the world its something that very few people have the knowledge (or time) to put together.

[TFFP]

JonOlis Ring rankings were made before Golden Boy took over the Ring. Even after Golden Boy took over there has been no obvious 'fixing' going on, much to the disappointment of the conspiracy theorists.

The Ring rankings are made by a panel, this alone helps ensure that individual bias is minimized, you just don't get that when one person puts a list together. Like it or not those Ring rankings are more valid and carry more importance than anyone who posts on here. Even you.

You may be able to pot shot and criticize a couple of placings at a few weighs but as a complete body of work over all the boxers at all the weights across the world its something that very few people have the knowledge (or time) to put together.
Even me :yikes :nono

I'm aware of that, but the fact they took it like bitches from the Golden Panties just shows what type of outfit we're dealing with here, and that it really doesn't conclusively prove anything to post a set of rankings from them. That would be the case if they actually had credibility too, people do get it wrong - as they did with Castillo.

He was shot - went life and death with Ngoudjo who with all due respect ain't great prior to facing Hatton. Since then he's failed to make weight numerous times, and lost to a very average fighter. These are the signs of a shot fighter yet if we're supposed to believe Ring he was top 10 when Hatton fought him.

So again, they don't prove or disprove anything.

[JonOli]

JonOli - why do you always post ring rankings like it conclusively proves anything? They are just as much opinion as anything anybody on here posts


They are compiled by collecting the opinions of a huge number of experts in the game. They provide an invaluable snapshot of time, and a kick in the face to bias individuals who try, and rewrite history. Take it up with the classic forum if you don't like them, they are listed there as an invaluable tool.

[GazOC]

Again mate, I didn't mention Castillo, just the general validity of the Ring Rankings but lets be honest P4P rankings are ALWAYS too slow to drop fighters past their prime because their rankings are a lot more dependent on their achievements and resumes rather than current form. Its not a fault of the Rings P4P rankings, just of P4P rankings in general.

Having Castilio ranked P4P when he fought Hatton doesn't mean they got it wrong, its just the way that P4P rankings are compiled.

[TFFP]

Again mate, I didn't mention Castillo, just the general validity of the Ring Rankings but lets be honest P4P rankings are ALWAYS too slow to drop fighters past their prime because their rankings are a lot more dependent on their achievements and resumes rather than current form. Its not a fault of the Rings P4P rankings, just of P4P rankings in general. I used Castillo simply because it was the first example that came to my head of them being completely inaccurate - for the exact reasons you just mentioned

So when they are posted up like they are gospel, it concerns me. We might as well not discuss anything ever, the Ring Rankings are always right.

And yes, they got it wrong. The whole point is they document the top 10 fighters in the world currently, across the weights. It's not our fault if their criteria is questionable and they make a mistake. Perhaps they ought to consider the balance between past achievement and current form and common sense.

[JonOli]

Who's posting them like they are Gospel? Of course they are not perfect, there are always going to be errors; but the fact remains that they are simply the most universal, and accurate record we have! The "panel/ballot" system simply limits bias.

It is blatantly obvious why you have such a problem with them, because they go against absolutely everything you spout about Hatton. Rest assured, I will continue to post ring rankings, when, and where I feel like it.

[GazOC]

So again, they don't prove or disprove anything.

Ridiculous thing to say. Forget Castillo. As a general point those rankings, at the very least, prove that a panel of accountable (this is a biggie for all us anonymous keyboard Ninjas) and competent people have discussed the placings and broadly agree.

As JonOLi has said those ranking have been used as a valued resource by boxing historians for years, they arn't going to come knocking on our doors for our rankings anytime soon...;)

[TFFP]

Who's posting them like they are Gospel? Of course they are not perfect, but the fact remains that they are simply the most universal and accurate record we have. The "panel/ballot" system simply limits bias. It blatantly obvious why you have such a problem with them, because they go against absolutely everything you spout about Hatton. Rest assured, I will continue to post ring ranking, when and where I feel like it.
So you do think Castillo was a top 10 fighter at the time? One of the 10 best fighters in the world when Hatton beat him?

A Yes/No will do.

[JonOli]

I've just stated that they are not perfect. Try reading whats written.

[FLINT ISLAND]

So you do think Castillo was a top 10 fighter at the time? One of the 10 best fighters in the world when Hatton beat him?

A Yes/No will do.

Just to butt in qucikly ad give my view

anybody with common sense knew Castillo was shot

regardless of what any rankings say

good body shot from Hatton though - never doubted his ability to hurt people to the body

Hattons PR campaign for this fight was to bill Castillio as some kind of pound for pound fighter - based on past repuation to justify that it was a good fight

just the same way camp Calzaghe are doing now with Roy Jones Jnr

[TFFP]

Ridiculous thing to say. Forget Castillo. As a general point those rankings, at the very least, prove that a panel of accountable (this is a biggie for all us anonymous keyboard Ninjas) and competent people have discussed the placings and broadly agree.

As JonOLi has said those ranking have been used as a valued resource by boxing historians for years, they arn't going to come knocking on our doors for our rankings anytime soon...;) Them being accountable means I can google them and sit here and laugh at their stupid asses when they make hideous mistakes like that. That's all it means. If they were really accountable in any true sense and had any sort of feeling for the sport or concept of credibility they wouldn't have lined up for De La Panties.

If you want to put a great deal stock in them, great for you guys. But from my point of view they aren't sealing any arguments, and the debate will rumble on. At very best they can support an argument, nothing more.

[GazOC]

I used Castillo simply because it was the first example that came to my head of them being completely inaccurate - for the exact reasons you just mentioned

So when they are posted up like they are gospel, it concerns me. We might as well not discuss anything ever, the Ring Rankings are always right.

And yes, they got it wrong. The whole point is they document the top 10 fighters in the world currently, across the weights. It's not our fault if their criteria is questionable and they make a mistake. Perhaps they ought to consider the balance between past achievement and current form and common sense.

I don't think they are posted as 'gospel', I said you can pot shot and find mistakes but you can at least use them as a starting point and not just dismiss them as "proving nothing" and having "no credibility".

I've never been a big fan of P4P ranking for the reasons you put but given that this is how most people tend to compile them its not really the Rings fault that fighters past their prime manage to stay in longer than their current form says they should.

[FLINT ISLAND]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The Ring magazine now owned by this man - dodgy as fuck

[GazOC]

Them being accountable means I can google them and sit here and laugh at their stupid asses when they make hideous mistakes like that. That's all it means. If they were really accountable in any true sense and had any sort of feeling for the sport or concept of credibility they wouldn't have lined up for De La Panties.

If you want to put a great deal stock in them, great for you guys. But from my point of view they aren't sealing any arguments, and the debate will rumble on. At very best they can support an argument, nothing more.

Well at least you've shifted from you original position on the rankings....

"De La Panties" was slightly funny 9 months ago, you've been spending too much time with the 14 year olds on the General Forum...;)

You may think it smart to be cynical and world weary about the Ring rankings/ DLH connection but what actual problems do you have with the rankings in the weight divisions? They are generally pretty good IMHO.

[GazOC]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The Ring magazine now owned by this man - dodgy as fuck

Is that your fireplace?

[FLINT ISLAND]

Is that your fireplace?

No it was the Ring Magazine Official Rankings Boss's Fireplace - him and Oscar have a special relationship

[TFFP]

Well at least you've shifted from you original position on the rankings....

"De La Panties" was slightly funny 9 months ago, you've been spending too much time with the 14 year olds on the General Forum...;)

You may think it smart to be cynical and world weary about the Ring rankings/ DLH connection but what actual problems do you have with the rankings in the weight divisions? They are generally pretty good IMHO.
I'll have a look at them, you can't say I'm not charitable at the weekend :hey

Firstly, the p4p rankings. An obvious mistake is Hopkins ranked inexplicably at 4, but as a Calzaghe fan we'll brush that under the carpet for now

I don't like Chagaev ranked 3 in the heavyweight division, you are not the third best heavyweight if you can't even get yourself into shape to fight due to illness. Even in this division. These are the sort of intricacies the ring ignore.

Cruiser not bad overall, although I fail to see how you justify Wlodarczyk over Arslan, who is an actual world champion coming off a good win. Also Bell above Maccarinelli seems strange, Bell just flat out quits against a former LHW after disapearing like Lord Lucan, at least Macca got knocked out by the best

LHW..Hopkins..too high..recurring theme. Oscar "Golden Panties" De La Hoya MIGHT just have had a say here. Dawson should be 2, perhaps even 1.

SMW..Mundine is fighting cans in Australia, Bute should be above him.

Middle is fine

JMW...Oscar #3. :patsch What the hell has the Golden Goose done recently that is relevant?

WW are very good rankings

Can't argue with JWW much, but for me Malignaggi lost to a guy ranked 5 on that list, and I think many of those will beat him. More a h2h quibble than anything substantial.

Campbell should probably be above Casamayor. Pacquiao is way too high for a guy that beat David fucking Diaz..christ sake. Another thing I hate about ring rankings, p4p guys just barge in at new divisions

Pacquiao is also 1 at SFW, which doesn't really sit well with me. Valero has cleaned out the cans and the stockroom is looking really bare right now, I don't know they got him 4 above Soto, Barrios even fucking Arthur fought more legit opposition

I'm done.

[GazOC]

Not a bad set of rankings all in all then? TBH I don't care about the P4P rankings and never have, they are just a bit of fun for fans to kill a bit of time IMHO.

[TFFP]

Not terrible at the moment, but give them time.

Hopkins is a bad mistake though. Not quite on the Castillo level, as he'll always be competetive, but not clever all the same. 4th best fighter in the world that fights 4 rounds and then hugs more than Hatton and Ruiz combined

De La Hoya ranked #3 at 154 too. Last opponent - Steve Forbes, the former lightweight that never fought in this division. Floyd Mayweather, the former welterweight, LWW, LW and SFW that never fought in this division. We have to go back 2 years to when he actually fought a relevant name in this division, Mayorga.

Unsuprisingly, the worst errors are made in favour of those with vested interests.

TFFP Credibility rating - 0, ZERO, ZILCH, NOTHING, EKKERT.

[Brummy1976]

Have you really got nothing better to do? Christ, how about watching some telly or go have a w*nk? Strange post man, little weird aint ya !!!

[GazOC]

I agree on Pac and ODL, both too high with what they've achieved at the weights.

"Give them time"? Maybe....;)

[Brummy1976]

Ok, he had 3 rounds in 2 and half years. 3 non-testing rounds, where Mitchell went down more times than Trotter on his boyfriend and his boyfriends boyfriend.

The point remains. You can't be sure about several facets of a fighters game when he is so inactive at the best of times, nevermind if he is mid 30's when you'd expect a 140lb fighter to be some way past peak. 3 rounds isn't enough to conclude anything either way, but logic would suggest Tszyu was noway near peak and hence he didn't even bother with a rematch despite dodgy circumstances.:deal

[TFFP]

I agree on Pac and ODL, both too high with what they've achieved at the weights.

"Give them time"? Maybe....;)
Oh ya, Pacquiao is a bit of a shocker too. I swear thats like the joker of the pack, they threw in there to see if people noticed

He's the 3 best lightweight in the world after beating David Diaz, and the Champ at SFW. Everything that Juan Diaz did previously counts for nothing since its Pacquiao.

I Vote ring as bigger twats than anybody in my thread*












*except Trotter

[GazOC]

Not terrible at the moment, but give them time.

Hopkins is a bad mistake though. Not quite on the Castillo level, as he'll always be competetive, but not clever all the same. 4th best fighter in the world that fights 4 rounds and then hugs more than Hatton and Ruiz combined

De La Hoya ranked #3 at 154 too. Last opponent - Steve Forbes, the former lightweight that never fought in this division. Floyd Mayweather, the former welterweight, LWW, LW and SFW that never fought in this division. We have to go back 2 years to when he actually fought a relevant name in this division, Mayorga.

Unsuprisingly, the worst errors are made in favour of those with vested interests.

TFFP Credibility rating - 0, ZERO, ZILCH, NOTHING, EKKERT.

Are they the worst or just the most high profile? Its a good set of rankings given there must be close on 300 boxers ranked. It must be nearly as good as you can come up with?

[JonOli]

Since Oscar took over they have definitely lost some credibility. They were held in very high esteem prior, but have lost a bit of cred'. Here are some of the older yearly rankings dating back to the 1920s.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[TFFP]

Are they the worst or just the most high profile? Its a good set of rankings given there must be close on 300 boxers ranked. It must be nearly as good as you can come up with?
Probably the most high profile, I couldn't be bothered to look further down the top 10's or the lower weights where I'm certain they make a lot of balls ups I must admit. It was quite an uneviable task you set me.

If they took my advice and corrected those major errors I mentioned they would be good. If I have time I'll document some more and write them out in Microsoft Word if they allow me enough pages, and im unsure my hard drive has enough space to save all the data

I could e-mail them I suppose.

[TFFP]

Since Oscar took over they have definitely lost some credibility. They were held in very high esteem prior, but have lost a bit of cred'. Here are some of the older rankings yearly rankings dating back to the 1920s.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Now that is actually a top resource, since we can't be expected to be as knowledgable on these times.

[GazOC]

Probably the most high profile, I couldn't be bothered to look further down the top 10's or the lower weights where I'm certain they make a lot of balls ups I must admit. It was quite an uneviable task you set me.

If they took my advice and corrected those major errors I mentioned they would be good. If I have time I'll document some more and write them out in Microsoft Word if they allow me enough pages, and im unsure my hard drive has enough space to save all the data

I could e-mail them I suppose.

Yep, it was a hard task. I wasn't so much after 20 specific errors just a kind of shit/ OK/ Good type opinion..;)

I'm sure theres enough <ahem> "stuff" you can delete off your hard drive to make space?;)

[GazOC]

Yep, thats a good find. Nice one.

[TFFP]

Yep, it was a hard task. I wasn't so much after 20 specific errors just a kind of shit/ OK/ Good type opinion..;)

I'm sure theres enough <ahem> "stuff" you can delete off your hard drive to make space?;)
Funny you should say that, I do have a folder named similar to stuff called "drasl" which is like "rubbish" on my desktop. There is nothing really suspect in it

Edit: It has one picture of Joe Calzaghe fully clothed but I don't see a problem with that

It would only be like Flint having a Colin Jones desktop wallpaper, or Trotter a.k.a Carpet Fitter a.k.a Raymond Hatton having a picture of his better more talented son

[JonOli]

Yep, thats a good find. Nice one.

Yea, it is. They have a bit more on there from the main menu as well (as well as rankings): dating back to the 20's - boxers of the year - rounds of the year - covers etc...

I'm not sure how much use some of it is (ie covers), but worth a quick browse.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[TFFP]

Yea, it is. They have a bit more on there from the main menu as well (as well as rankings): dating back to the 20's - boxers of the year - rounds of the year - covers etc...

I'm not sure how much use some of it is (ie covers), but worth a quick browse.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Those covers are outstanding

I've also just thought of a good game. Guess the man on the front cover of some of the old ones, but blocking out the name :good

An idea for my next thread.

[Words]

Styles make fights. It's that simple. Kostya Tsyzu fought with an eastern european amatuer style that requires a bit of space and room to get his big bombs off. Hatton, on that night, wouldn't let Kostya breathe. It was perfect tactics. When put under that kind of up-close pressure Tsyzu struggles, you can see the same thing in his loss to Vince Phillips, and Hatton in 2005 is one of the best examples I can point out of a up-close, relentless pressure fighter.

You also have to figure into this Hatton's sheer will to win. He just would not give up. He walked through dozens of vicious right-hand bombs that would normally have left less determined fighters twitching on the canvas. That deserves A LOT of respect from any decent boxing fan. Give Hatton the credit he is due, he beat a legit P4P contender and futuer HOF'er and did it by stoppage in an incredibly brave and determined performance.

Was Kostya shot? well, the Sharmba Mitchell fight said to me that he was not shot, but I think the inactivity hurt him a lot. Against someone less determined the ring-rust may not have hurt him, but against Hatton it could've been a deciding factor.

Aussies just need to get over the fact that they're boy got beat. They're all terrible losers.

[TFFP]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Any guesses? It's a tough one - no cheating please :hi:

[GazOC]

I'm going with Max Baer, only for the title of the Jack Dempsey article at the bottom left.

[TFFP]

I'm going with Max Baer, only for the title of the Jack Dempsey article at the bottom left.
not even close.

[TFFP]

It is a British fighter.

A jew.

[brown bomber]

Benny Lynch? Don't know why that name popped in my head.

[TFFP]

Benny Lynch? Don't know why that name popped in my head.
Nope, a little more obscure, but a great British fighter nonetheless.

He was a world light welterweight champion.

[Beeston Brawler]

Jack Berg?

[TFFP]

Jack Berg?
I hope you didn't cheat :twisted:

Good work. "The Whitechapel Windmill" Jackie "Kid" Berg.

[Beeston Brawler]

I was thinking of British LWW world champs and struggled beyond Hatton, Witter and Berg....

[GazOC]

not even close.

Sure it was close, it was a obviously a Jewish fighter and the Dempsey article threw me towards a heavyweight.

[TFFP]

Sure it was close, it was a obviously a Jewish fighter and the Dempsey article threw me towards a heavyweight.
Does he look like a heavy to you - even by classical standards? :lol:

The pics are completely random and unrelated to the headlines on the old mags it seems.

[GazOC]

Its drawing not a photo. How was I to know how much artistic license had been employed....;O)

And I'm sticking with that story!!!

["TKO"]

Strange post man, little weird aint ya !!!

No really, just attempting to illustrate that it is a little sad the original poster having such an obsessive compulsion with hating Hatton that he has nothing better to do than start threads like this. Christ, whatever you view is of the fight it was three years ago, what is the relevance to the scene at this point in time?

[GazOC]

Yep, it was just either a troll attempt (8 pages, impressive!!!) or a bored afternoon on Bettys part.

[TFFP]

What are these trolls?

[toffeejack]

He certainly wasn't at his peak obviously but to say he was shot is going over the top.

Prime Tszyu beats Hatton I have no doubt about that but Hatton derserved all the praise he got from that fight. Forget how ugly it was, it was Hatton's peak perfornance against an inactive but still very dangerous Tszyu.

[brown bomber]

Maybe Lacy was shot BEFORE he fought Calzaghe then?

[JonOli]

Oh well...

[toffeejack]

Maybe Lacy was shot BEFORE he fought Calzaghe then?

:huh

Lacy was at the peak his powers, a peak age and was destroying everyone before he fought Joe with nearly every respected boxing writer tipping Lacy to win by KO or stoppage. Completely different scenarios.

By the way, I don't think Tszyu was shot, just over the hill but still a very dangerous fighter.

["TKO"]

:huh

Lacy was at the peak his powers, a peak age and was destroying everyone before he fought Joe with nearly every respected boxing writer tipping Lacy to win by KO or stoppage. Completely different scenarios.



Is it really that different a scenario? Most of this could just as well apply to Tszyu to the time of the Hatton fight.

[onourway]

I was also disillusioned with Britain

And that's from sitting in your basement on your computer.

Imagine if you'd stepped outside.


The decline of Britain is overplayed. Same as the decline of Tszyu, he went from a fighter who would KO Hatton in a few rounds and P4P#3 to being a shot fighter....:rofl

[China_hand_Joe]

I would consider Tszyu's left hand to be completely shot against Hatton. A one handed fighter when Hatton met him.

[brown bomber]

Is it really that different a scenario? Most of this could just as well apply to Tszyu to the time of the Hatton fight.my point...:thumbsup both lacy and Tszyu were coming off the best performances of the career against top opposition. To say kostya was shot is stupid.... there was no evidence of this.

[toffeejack]

Both Lacy and Tszyu were tipped to win and were coming off good wins but you can't really compare a 35 year old inactive Kostya Tszyu with a 27 year old active and prime Jeff Lacy.

Tszyu wasn't completely shot but was definitley not a peak Tszyu that is pretty obvious due to his age and the period of inactivity in the 2 years previous.

Only the Hatton haters will say he was shot.

[trotter]

Both Lacy and Tszyu were tipped to win and were coming off good wins but you can't really compare a 35 year old inactive Kostya Tszyu with a 27 year old active and prime Jeff Lacy.

Tszyu wasn't completely shot but was definitley not a peak Tszyu that is pretty obvious due to his age and the period of inactivity in the 2 years previous.

Only the Hatton haters will say he was shot.

But Tszyu was eating WAY WAY better opposition and had proved himself as an elite fighter. Lacy never had.

If you take age out of the equation - and it doesn't necessarily belong in the equation to start with - Tszyu was a much more difficult opponent than Lacy.

And to be fair that's how it played out, Tszyu gave Hatton hell, people forget that.

If he was shot, but still gave Hatton a much harder night than a bunch of legitimate titlists, he must've been superman to begin with.

[toffeejack]

But Tszyu was eating WAY WAY better opposition and had proved himself as an elite fighter. Lacy never had.

If you take age out of the equation - and it doesn't necessarily belong in the equation to start with - Tszyu was a much more difficult opponent than Lacy.

And to be fair that's how it played out, Tszyu gave Hatton hell, people forget that.

If he was shot, but still gave Hatton a much harder night than a bunch of legitimate titlists, he must've been superman to begin with.

Not really. Just that a prime Tszyu is better than a prime Hatton that's all.

[r_9-Ronaldo]

Not really. Just that a prime Tszyu is better than a prime Hatton that's all.
that I don't agree with

[trotter]

Not really. Just that a prime Tszyu is better than a prime Hatton that's all.

You're missing my point. Why would a 'shot' fighter give a (now) proven world level fighter like Hatton such a hard fight? Doesn't make sense.

The fact Tszyu gave Hatton - the Ring magazine fighter of that year - his second toughest fight ever lays utter waste to the idea that Tszyu was 'shot'.

Trouble is, people these days don't have the intelligence to debate a subject without reverting to hyperbole. Kostya was probably past his best, common sense suggest that.

But 'shot'? Only a total idiot would even consider using that word to describe him.

[toffeejack]

You're missing my point. Why would a 'shot' fighter give a (now) proven world level fighter like Hatton such a hard fight? Doesn't make sense.

The fact Tszyu gave Hatton - the Ring magazine fighter of that year - his second toughest fight ever lays utter waste to the idea that Tszyu was 'shot'.

Trouble is, people these days don't have the intelligence to debate a subject without reverting to hyperbole. Kostya was probably past his best, common sense suggest that.

But 'shot'? Only a total idiot would even consider using that word to describe him.

Read my posts I never said Tszyu was shot :huh

Over the hill definitley but not shot.

[GazOC]

that I don't agree with

Then you'd be wrong...;)

[trotter]

Read my posts I never said Tszyu was shot :huh

Over the hill definitley but not shot.

No, you didn't, I wasn't accusing you of doing so either

I just got on one about the title of the thread

Apologies

[TFFP]

And that's from sitting in your basement on your computer.

Imagine if you'd stepped outside.


The decline of Britain is overplayed. Same as the decline of Tszyu, he went from a fighter who would KO Hatton in a few rounds and P4P#3 to being a shot fighter....:rofl onourway makes an appearence. Ok, class in session

Your gay Hatton loving ass is jealous that I can post on here all day whilst getting paid more than you your boyfriend and your father combined, all the while you flip burgers at McDonalds

I'd be bitter too :good

[PowerPuncher]

But Tszyu was eating WAY WAY better opposition and had proved himself as an elite fighter. Lacy never had.
.

Actually Lacy was beating better competition than Shamba Mitchell in Reid, Pemberton and Vanderpool

[Beeston Brawler]

Reid was shot to bits, although brave.

[BoppaZoo]

Reid was shot to bits, although brave.Mate forget Powerpuncher he is a Tszyu hater.
Mitchell had beat Tackie,Stewart and Ndou leading up to that fight with Tszyu.

Vanderpool had beat Ballogou,Jenkins and Tito Mendoza not exactly Great opponents.

Reid had lost to Ottke then beat Magee and Serdjane

Pemberton had beat a old Shieka and Camlin and Crawford.

Neither Reid,Vanderpool nor Pemberton were ranked any higher than 7 by Ring yet Tszyu after 2 years off beat the 3rd ranked Mitchell in 3 rounds.

God there is some stupid people on this board.

[ron u.k.]

He announced his retirement after the Mitchell rematch.
Has he looked likely to fight again since the farce in Manchester? Not a sniff.
He had fought a full 12 rounds just twice in 10 years. He was rusty as hell, and shot to ribbons.
He struggled to make weight for that fight in June 2005....even coming in over the limit initially.
Even then, on a level playing field he probably would've been ahead through 11 rounds........your problem gets no better does it?:-(

[ron u.k.]

my point...:thumbsup both lacy and Tszyu were coming off the best performances of the career against top opposition. To say kostya was shot is stupid.... there was no evidence of this.well jeff as you know all of these guys tipped ricky to beat a "shot" tszyu at the time.i mean we all know nobody expected tszyu to win did they?:roll: