Floyd Patterson (195lbs) v Marvin Hagler (165ish lbs)

[McGrain]

Who and why?

[Minotauro]

Floyd would win his major weakness was his chin but against Hagler it wouldn't be a problem plus his blend of speed and power would be too much for Hagler.

[Vantage_West]

if this was at super-middle i would of given floyd by his amazing hand speed he still hand lightning hand speed at heavy/cruiser (maybe the fastest handed heavywieght champion of all time? maybe) but at middlewieght he was amazing i have footage of him fighting don grant and man those combo's were tight. body to head everything. against hagler he is the bigger man the faster man and the harder hitting man his boxing abilty was better than people say if you see the george chuvalo-floyd patterson fight there is a moment when floyd knows he aint gonna ko him and bounces on his toes with a tyson like guard while throwing these machine gun like jabs...

ud for floyd, hagler is maybe the best middlewieghts of all time but he just isnt gonan beat the heavier 195 pound floyd

[Nemesis]

Patterson would be far, far too fast for Hagler

[NickHudson]

and far, far too strong.

Patterson would be far, far too fast for Hagler

[mcvey]

Who and why?
Dont really see the point of this matchup,but Floyd by ko,why,he is a world class heavy weight fighting a middleweight.

[McGrain]

Dont really see the point of this matchup,

It's to see how highly people rate Hagler, and if anyone was brave enough to make a pick in this case.

I'm intrigued by Hagler. I guess I want to call him a punch-boxer. Anyway, it seems reasonable, in my opinion, to pick Greb over Walcott who is a top 20 heavy, it is reasonable top pick Calzaghe, whos is a SMW over Peter who is a heavy - reasonable, mind you, not neccesarily correct.

I was wondering if people would think it is reasonable to pick Hagler over Patterson...he is certainly greater than Cal and as great as Greb. Many have him at no.1

Anyway I was hoping that those who picked for him (no takers!) would provide insight into how he would have done at a higher weight and why he never stepped up and that those who picked against him might explore his limitations a little bit.

So everybody who has picked Patterson; why not Hagler? Concentrating upon Hagler's shortcomings when up against this big/skilled fighter as opposed to Patterson's strengths.

[Nemesis]

McG, why didnt you put the matchup at Hagler 165 vs Patterson 175, as Patterson was a great LtHeavy too

[g0tpHo]

Floyd Patterson wouldn't even be a heavyweight in our day, which is amazing when you consider that he held his own pretty well. Patterson at a lower weight would have been amazing, I read somewhere that Cus said that they would have a middleweight on their hands if they didn't make him eat.

[Rattler]

I give Hagler a better chance than most would.

Patterson chin is that delicate - and Hagler knew how to put a weakened fighter away when he needed to.

Now, granted, that Patterson has the size advantage over Hagler, but I think handspeed is about equal - Patterson was extremely fast for a HW, but not amazingly so for a MW.

It takes patience and precision to defeat somebody who fights Patterson's style. Somebody who knows how to take advantage of that style. Somebody who can throw a lot of punches, from a lot of directions.... most preferrably with either hand.

That sounds an awful lot like Hagler, who is tough enough to take a solid amount of punishment (he's got a better leg base than Patterson did, I think) and also work against Patterson's style effectively. He wouldn't KO Floyd, but he could cut him up (which of course would be a major problem for Hagler too).

I favor Patterson by decision, but it's not gonna be a blow out.

[Nemesis]

Patterson was extremely fast for a HW, but not amazingly so for a MW.


Yes he was!

you obviously havent seen the footage of Patterson as an amateur

[Rattler]

Yes he was!

you obviously havent seen the footage of Patterson as an amateur

So, that handspeed is going to carry over with 30+ pounds of extra weight?

Again.... 195 lbs. Patterson - not 165 lbs. Patterson.

[achillesthegreat]

Not a better fighter but a bigger man. Hagler would have nearly no advantages.

[enquirer]

I fail to see how calzaghe would beat peter? By this logic hagler could beat patterson....Remember,when a guy has NEVER campaigned at well above his weight then it is kind of unknown how he would fare against much bigger opponents....Maybe hagler could compete at lt heavy,but not at heavy.....Some fighters are made to compete at much higher weights than their original divisions by virtue of their boxing skill/power /physical make up and their being big for their original division....Duran,,de la hoya and hearns being some examples...Its unknown what marvin would be like at even lt heavy,he had the chin,skill and such like but we dont really know.....No one could have predicted jones and toney campaigning successfully at heavy all the way from middle...Although in jones' case he only had one fight so we cant say he was truely successful at heavy...

[McGrain]

McG, why didnt you put the matchup at Hagler 165 vs Patterson 175, as Patterson was a great LtHeavy too

He would have been a top 5 Light-Heavy in my opinion, if he'd hung there apart from the odd step up...fair point. But as I said, i'm interested in how Hagler might do v a small Heavy.

[McGrain]

It takes patience and precision to defeat somebody who fights Patterson's style. Somebody who knows how to take advantage of that style. Somebody who can throw a lot of punches, from a lot of directions.... most preferrably with either hand.

I agree with this part of your post Rattler - I think this is spot on.


I favor Patterson by decision, but it's not gonna be a blow out.

And this is the way I see it too.

As to Patterson's handspeed, I tend to agree with Nemisis. Floyd would be the faster of the two.

[rodney]

Floyd mashes him, and probably knocks him out.

I agree.

[Nemesis]

So, that handspeed is going to carry over with 30+ pounds of extra weight?

Again.... 195 lbs. Patterson - not 165 lbs. Patterson.

yes but, we are talking about the fastest heavyweight (probably) of all time against a middleweight with average hand speed

[My dinner with Conteh]

Despite the obvious advantages, Floyd was Hagler's all-time hero, so Marv would struggle to overcome him mentally too.

[Titan1]

Patterson Ko 3 Hagler.Too much of a weight difference.

[frankwornank]

. Result, No Contest. Floyd Would Ko Him In The Early Part Of The First Round. Realize This About Patterson, He Was Not A Big Heavyweight But He Was A Heavyweight. He Carried 195 over a very well conditioned frame. If you had ever met him, you would be surprised by the size of his hands and wide shoulders. He was very strong and could punch with speed and power.

[jowcol]

He wouldn't KO Floyd, but he could cut him up

Can you tell us when Floyd was ever "cut up"? Outside of a
slight nose bleed or cut inside his mouth on rare occasion and that little
rat Devil Green's illegal head butt in Sept 1970 an injury that, IMO,
let Ali easily damage that same eye two years later in Floyd's last harrah...

A prime heavy Patterson is way to much for Hagler; anyone ever consider
Monzon against Floyd? A blowout either way...

My $0.02

[Manassa]

Patterson was an underrated puncher and concussing a man was well within his capabilities - but he's not knocking out Hagler. A man doesn't just go from being practically invincible to feebly fragile just because of thirty pounds in weight. If inclined, Patterson would likely finish what Monroe started, stopping Hagler late, but he's not putting him down for ten and especially not in the early rounds. Of course, knowing Patterson, he may even feel slightly intimidated by Hagler and take a more cautious approach, winning handily but by decision.

[Shake]

I'm still pretty sure I could knock Hagler out with a baseball bat, though.

[McGrain]

I'm still pretty sure I could knock Hagler out with a baseball bat, though.

Only if George Foreman and Joe Frazier were holding him in place.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Only if George Foreman and Joe Frazier were holding him in place.


It'd be the first time in ages that Frazier was near Foreman and standing in an upright position.

[McGrain]

It'd be the first time in ages that Frazier was near Foreman and standing in an upright position.

:lol:

OK.

Although actually I think that they did a thing on Wogan a few years back and both remained firmly upright.

In fact I'm under the impression that these two always got on OK outside the ring. I bet they've seen plenty of each other.

[brownpimp88]

IMO, the linear heavyweight champs that were not natural heavyweights get underrated. I am positive that if michael moorer and floyd patterson went for the 175 belt, they would have been champs for a long time. Both get trashed for having shitty chins, well last time i checked they became much better heavyweights than bob foster, so maybe that would imply that if michael moorer or floyd patterson were to fight a guy like foster at 175, they would most likely beat him cuz i doubt they would have shitty chins at 175.

[jowcol]

I'm still of the opinion that Floyd could have NEVER stayed at Lt. Hvy. He simply grew into a natural crusierweight by his early twenties. Once he became heavy champ virtually all his fights had him weighing in at the 188-192 range...