The Anti-American sentiment on here...

[sues2nd]

First, I want to ask all of the mods on here to PLEASE leave this in this section of the forums....it is more valid in here in this section than anywhere else on the board.

Please...and thank you.

Now onto the post....

Ok, let me start by saying why I am making this post. As of late on here, I have noticed a huge rise in the negativity toward anything US on this forum coming from the non-us posters. Whether it be US fighters....US events....or most notably US posters.

Its become that if you favor say, Mayweather over Hatton...you do so because your from the United States. Never mind any real concrete reason.

Recently I have had this said to me because of the following...

1- I felt Whitaker would beat KT.
2- I felt PRIME Holyfield would beat Sultan.
3- I feel Hopkins still poses a huge threat to Calzaghe.

As I said, its like noone can even argue a point anymore without bringing this into the arguement....valid or not. Before, I would take this as admission of the fact that they couldnt bring anything concrete into the arguement....but the rise in this stupidity has made it MUCH more prevelent as of late. I have even seen posters that I respect HIGHLY use this.

What set this all off was this was brought up during a discussion of ALL TIME FAVORITE FIGHTERS!!!!!!!!!! What does where a fighter or a fan is from have to do with why you like them? NOTHING...thats what.

And dont get me wrong, if someone were to bring up that the mainstream US media severely underrates foriegn fighters....I would 100% agree. But, that does not lend credance for the most part here. And to be just as honest, the non-US posters on here are just as bad, if not worse in some cases as the aformentioned media outlets....and double that for the US posters....its rare we use this as an arguement (mostly when its something ridiculous that is said...never just as the meat of our point).

Sorry to go on a rant here, but I KNOW FOR A FACT that I am not the only US poster on here that is sick of this bullshit. I under most circumstances know my shit when it comes to this sport....I form my opinions off of what I have seen, what I have learned and what I know....not where I was born.

So, to all of you out there that seem to dip into the above-mentioned well everytime its a US vs Non-US fighter post....next time, please, do some research, form an opinion and attempt to present this opinion using actual boxing knowledge, rather than letting your nationalistic views cloud your judgement and ruin your posts...

:good

(again, I hope we can keep this in the General Boxing Forum...it really doesnt apply anywhere else....and sorry for the rant....but this is just getting old and fucking annoying)

[El Bombasto]

I haven't noticed any particular animosity towards US posters in this forum, but this is a forum, and unfortunately the anonymous nature of it seems to embolden people to say some fairly offensive things. However, it's worth pointing out that the biggest A-Holes in here are all US based.

[King Dan]

Agree with sues2nd.

It doesn't matter though.

People feel how they feel.

If American boxing fans think European fans hype their fighters even harder to make up for something, then so be it.

[sues2nd]

I haven't noticed any particular animosity towards US posters in this forum, but this is a forum, and unfortunately the anonymous nature of it seems to embolden people to say some fairly offensive things. However, it's worth pointing out that the biggest A-Holes in here are all US based.

Its not so much an animosity...as it is a negative outlook on.

Like any good US fighter is a media creation. Like anytime a US poster feels a US fighter would beat a non-US one....they do so, not because of careful analisys, but because they reside within US borders.

And trust me, its out there. I dont know where you are located (if its outside of the US, then it may explain why you dont see it as much...) but trust me, ITS PREVELANT!!! Its all over the place. I know many, MANY of the US posters here complain all of the time to each other about it. Its in almost every post of the like (US fighter vs non-US fighter).

And on top of it all, its hypocritical. Seeing as how, most of the time, there is never any points to correspond with it. Never any type of fact to back their opinion....but just, YOU FAVOR THE US GUY CAUSE HE IS FROM THE US!

Its getting disgusting...and trust me, I aint the only one sick of it.

[El Bombasto]

Its not so much an animosity...as it is a negative outlook on.

Like any good US fighter is a media creation. Like anytime a US poster feels a US fighter would beat a non-US one....they do so, not because of careful analisys, but because they reside within US borders.

And trust me, its out there. I dont know where you are located (if its outside of the US, then it may explain why you dont see it as much...) but trust me, ITS PREVELANT!!! Its all over the place. I know many, MANY of the US posters here complain all of the time to each other about it. Its in almost every post of the like (US fighter vs non-US fighter).

And on top of it all, its hypocritical. Seeing as how, most of the time, there is never any points to correspond with it. Never any type of fact to back their opinion....but just, YOU FAVOR THE US GUY CAUSE HE IS FROM THE US!

Its getting disgusting...and trust me, I aint the only one sick of it.

I understand your frusteration. Usually when a poster falls back on comments like that it's a pretty good indicator that they do not have much boxing knowledge and are not worth your time. A lot of these guys are just kids looking to start flame wars. Once the conversation goes south, I just stop responding.

[King Dan]

I understand your frusteration. Usually when a poster falls back on comments like that it's a pretty good indicator that they do not have much boxing knowledge and are not worth your time. A lot of these guys are just kids looking to start flame wars. Once the conversation goes south, I just stop responding.



:happy

[a.arthur.h]

I haven't noticed it too much, but I've never paid much attention to anyone who is just being ignorant, I just read the next post when I realize it. You are right on the money though, where you are from does not mean anything other than where you are from. I'm from Canada, and I'm a fan of fighters who are from Samoa, Haiti, Russia, Japan, and many other places.

Where you are from doesn't matter, its the knowledge (preferably unbiased) that you possess that matters. Bringing someone's nationality into a discussion/arguement, is no better than bringing someone's race into an arguement. There are stupid and smart people everywhere, regardless of nationality.

[Pimp C]

Yeah I agree with the thread starter there are certain posters here who hate anything American.

[Cookie]

You can't moderate the quality of someone's posts. If someone thinks all US fighters are hype, or that all European fighters are bums because they don't fight in the US, then that's what they think.

Considering the only thing remotely close to a screening process here is the question "are you 13 years of age or over?" it's little surprise that there's a hefty portion of morons around.

[sues2nd]

You can't moderate the quality of someone's posts. If someone thinks all US fighters are hype, or that all European fighters are bums because they don't fight in the US, then that's what they think.

Considering the only thing remotely close to a screening process here is the question "are you 13 years of age or over?" it's little surprise that there's a hefty portion of morons around.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh and tobkhan, what you said cant be any further from the truth....

But as for my main reason of starting thread...It wasnt to raise the quality of posters (tho I still think there should be SOME type of entrance exam or whatever for here....weed out the idiots...jk, but wouldnt it be great!!!) I think its more to bring it to light. Make it known that its getting obvious...getting ridiculous...getting annoying....

Like I said, I can think of at least 20 people (a couple NON US guys) that have either mentioned this in a post as fact or said it directly to me.

It just got to me....saying you cant have your OWN FAVORITE list from where ever the hell you want is borderline insanity.

[Druid]

I think this happens across the board and as a lot of sports is about supporting your local/country Team/Player it is natural that this would occur somewhat here, it is tribalism and the world would be better off without it, but to take it personally is being overly sensitive as it is cultural indoctrination and US posters are just as guilty of behaving this way.

[Dekkers]

I think the reality of the situation is that this bias exists both inside and outside the U.S. Americans will favour or overrate the fighters they see more of and do the opposite for fighters they see less, same with people outside the U.S.

If an American is blunt and dismissive on points made about international fighters (and vice-versa), they can expect some tit for tat and backlash, as it's human nature.

[Cruiser1]

That guy Odo is the worst

I'm glad this has been brought up

[Dekkers]

Most of it comes from BoppaZoo. If a fighter is Australian he automatically wins any head to head matchup easily. He talks exclusively about Australian fighters. He said Kostya Tszyu was more likely a top 10 ATG than Whitaker and that he would KO Whitaker! :rofl

I know you and he have disagreed a lot, but you shouldn't make stuff up to make someone look bad. Especially that first point about picking any Australian fighter to win easily.

[BigEars]

It's both sides guys .

He's a bum he's never fought outside of Europe/you're just overating him because he's American .

You gotta take the good with the bad , and there's a lot of good and bad posters here . You just got to filtir through the crap .

[Tom_Tocca]

I think I am one of the most unbiased posters on this board and you know why?

It's because, like someone else mentioned before in this thread that I watched alot of both fights in the US and Europe.

My detailled judgement on a fighter might be not the best but most of the time I can bring up the main point why someone is better than the other...

[sues2nd]

Okay, than explain to me why so many of your fellow Americans call European fighters as bums or unproven or things like that just because they aren´t fighting in the states?

Well, lets look at what you said for a second.

The biggest fights are generally made in the states. Hatton knew this, that is why he left the comfort of his home to show his skills here.

I have heard this said.

Calzaghe has stayed overseas fighting average to below average fighters for a very long time. Even he has stated his desire to do this.

I have heard that said.

Now, as for people who state Joe is a bum for not doing it yet....yes there are some that say it. I didnt say it didnt exist, but for every one US moron who does this....there are 5 non-US posters doing the same or worse.

Let me tell you a few things that were said to ME (I have been a regular on here for a LOOOOONG time....people know I know my shit....even the ones that dont nessesarily agree with what I say will tell ya that) that have led me to feeling this way and just getting fed up.

1- I stated a while back in a post about Pernell Whitaker vs KT that I favored Whitaker. I gave reasons (he fought better comp...he has the physical edge in most areas other than power...he has never been anywhere close to being KOd, and seeing as how he is easily the better boxer, KT would need a KO win and bigger punchers never could do it....etc). Basically gave a well thoughtout arguement. And I was told by about 10 different posters that Im just an american picking the american fighter....nothing else.

2- After Sultan beat Briggs, some idiot made a post about Sultan "destroying" a PRIME Evander Holyfield. I mentioned why I wouldnt think this is possible (Evander is much higher output fighter than Briggs...has a better chin...is more skilled...has proven it vs the better comp...etc.). And again....I only felt that way according to quite a few because I am american.

3- There is a favorite fighters post on here, asking what people's all time favorite fighters are (top 5). Well, after a few pages, someone said that non-US posters are picking non-US and US fighters...yet US posters arent....yet, looking back, many US posters picked foriegn (to them at least) born fighters...Mexican, PR, Canadian, European, etc. In other words, once again, there was nothing to back it up other than someones utter disdain for anything american....not even the replies RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FACES! And again, who cares where someone is from if they are one of your favorites????

There are tons more...these are just a few that popped out in my mind....as well as the one that set it off.

So like I said, I can understand that it wouldnt jump out nessesarily to you, being a non-US poster (not that you are one of the guilty ones...just that if its not directed toward you, it sometimes is hard to see)....but as a regular poster on here for YEARS...I can tell you that as of the last few months (always kinda been here, just been utterly ridiculous lately)....its been like 5 to 1 non-US idiots to their american counterparts using nationalism as an arguement as opposed to knowledge.

[Dekkers]

I was obviously exagerrating, but any time someone comes up with a fantasy thread about someone vs an Australian fighter he always pops up in mostly those threads only and defends the Australian fighter to the death. That last part he most certainly did say, I didn't make that up at all.

Fair enough, though personally having seen a lot of Tszyu if any 140 pound fighter is capable of knocking out Pernell it's Kostya, there's a huge gap between saying that, and saying it with any certainty or saying it's an easy fight. Most people respect Pernell, but to say Tszyu has no chance or would be clowned by Pernell is to fall on the other side of the fence when it comes to bias.

[sues2nd]

Fair enough, though personally having seen a lot of Tszyu if any 140 pound fighter is capable of knocking out Pernell it's Kostya, there's a huge gap between saying that, and saying it with any certainty or saying it's an easy fight. Most people respect Pernell, but to say Tszyu has no chance or would be clowned by Pernell is to fall on the other side of the fence when it comes to bias.

See, that type of arguement, even tho I dont agree, I can respect and go back and forth with just fine.

But, I was with Sweet Pea in that post about KT - Whitaker....and there were quite a few people in there saying we only felt that way cause Pernell was from the states.

[BigEars]

Well, lets look at what you said for a second.

The biggest fights are generally made in the states. Hatton knew this, that is why he left the comfort of his home to show his skills here.

I have heard this said.

Calzaghe has stayed overseas fighting average to below average fighters for a very long time. Even he has stated his desire to do this.

I have heard that said.

Now, as for people who state Joe is a bum for not doing it yet....yes there are some that say it. I didnt say it didnt exist, but for every one US moron who does this....there are 5 non-US posters doing the same or worse.

Let me tell you a few things that were said to ME (I have been a regular on here for a LOOOOONG time....people know I know my shit....even the ones that dont nessesarily agree with what I say will tell ya that) that have led me to feeling this way and just getting fed up.

1- I stated a while back in a post about Pernell Whitaker vs KT that I favored Whitaker. I gave reasons (he fought better comp...he has the physical edge in most areas other than power...he has never been anywhere close to being KOd, and seeing as how he is easily the better boxer, KT would need a KO win and bigger punchers never could do it....etc). Basically gave a well thoughtout arguement. And I was told by about 10 different posters that Im just an american picking the american fighter....nothing else.

2- After Sultan beat Briggs, some idiot made a post about Sultan "destroying" a PRIME Evander Holyfield. I mentioned why I wouldnt think this is possible (Evander is much higher output fighter than Briggs...has a better chin...is more skilled...has proven it vs the better comp...etc.). And again....I only felt that way according to quite a few because I am american.

3- There is a favorite fighters post on here, asking what people's all time favorite fighters are (top 5). Well, after a few pages, someone said that non-US posters are picking non-US and US fighters...yet US posters arent....yet, looking back, many US posters picked foriegn (to them at least) born fighters...Mexican, PR, Canadian, European, etc. In other words, once again, there was nothing to back it up other than someones utter disdain for anything american....not even the replies RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FACES! And again, who cares where someone is from if they are one of your favorites????

There are tons more...these are just a few that popped out in my mind....as well as the one that set it off.

So like I said, I can understand that it wouldnt jump out nessesarily to you, being a non-US poster (not that you are one of the guilty ones...just that if its not directed toward you, it sometimes is hard to see)....but as a regular poster on here for YEARS...I can tell you that as of the last few months (always kinda been here, just been utterly ridiculous lately)....its been like 5 to 1 non-US idiots to their american counterparts using nationalism as an arguement as opposed to knowledge.

But the thing is you are right and you are wrong . Sure Non US people don't notice the stuff you pointed out as much , but only the same way you don't notice the 'he's a bum who only fights at home' stuff . Believe me it's pretty much even .

[brooklyn1550]

I've noticed this too...in fantasy fights involving an American and a European, when discussing the current heavyweight picture, and in the thread asking about poster's favorite fighters. I'm simply fed up of this negativity towards US posters and fighters...let's leave race out of discussion. I'm not going to start naming these posters though.

[Lampshade]

Anti-American? Holy cow.

[Dekkers]

See, that type of arguement, even tho I dont agree, I can respect and go back and forth with just fine.

But, I was with Sweet Pea in that post about KT - Whitaker....and there were quite a few people in there saying we only felt that way cause Pernell was from the states.

I understand what you mean by blanket statements like that, it's not reasoned debate. Similarly when I talk about Tszyu i'm amazed by what I hear from some people. I can't imagine from the way they call him a 'bum' that they've seen many of his fights, the hand speed he showed against Sanchez, the domination of Ruelas, the Tacky shutout, the crushing left hooks to the body against Hurtado. Tszyu had off nights here and there, but he had great nights as well.

[pipe wrenched]

I have noticed a lot too. One instance was over a couple fighters either Ring or P4P ratings and saying their fighter is not included because they're not American. Seems to be mostly the British crowd that seems to almost "hate" anything American, IMO.

[C Money]

Some posters have anti american sentiment, but I dont find it the majority. I actually find that many posts between myself and euro or other perspectives rather fair.


That being said?? When i do hear anti-american BS?? Based soley on being anit-american ?? You can count on me to call it what it is!!!
I'm an equal opportunity poster and prejudiced minds are usually full of shit on several angles, american or otherwise!!! I'll call it like I C it, regardless of color, creed, religion, or nationatlity:good

[China_hand_Joe]

It should be make clear that many American fans have been brainswashed from reading years of American boxing media, like that on display in the front page right now -fullstop- In general I know it it fair to say the American fans are those with the most inaccurate views -fullstop- Even their views on American based fighters are wild and inaccurate -fullstop- There are of course some good American posters around, who were somehow born in the wrong country -fullstop- The thread on Tszyu was quite spectacular though -fullstop-

"Judah dominated Tszyu in the 1st round and nearly KOd Tszyu the fuck out lol lol -fullstop- He was killing him in the second too until he was hit with that lucky punch -fullstop- Judah should have been allowed to carry on it was stopped prematurely -fullstop- Mayweather would kill him -fullstop-

[C Money]

It should be make clear that many American fans have been brainswashed from reading years of American boxing media, like that on display in the front page right now -fullstop- In general I know it it fair to say the American fans are those with the most inaccurate views -fullstop- Even their views on American based fighters are wild and inaccurate -fullstop- There are of course some good American posters around, who were somehow born in the wrong country -fullstop- The thread on Tszyu was quite spectacular though -fullstop-

"Judah dominated Tszyu in the 1st round and nearly KOd Tszyu the fuck out lol lol -fullstop- He was killing him in the second too until he was hit with that lucky punch -fullstop- Judah should have been allowed to carry on it was stopped prematurely -fullstop- Mayweather would kill him -fullstop-

I read the forum's, not the front page and you'd as soon find me dead as saying what you're alleging. Judah won round one, Tszyu figured him out QUICKLY and then gave us the legendary "chicken dance".

If this the idea of American Bias??? Then this is a lost fucking subject:yep

[China_hand_Joe]

It isn't all Americans mate, I can even tolerate the existance one or two of you -fullstop-

[BoppaZoo]

this thread is poitned towards me.
and im fine with that but i would call myself the person that feels they have to defend guys like Pacquiao,Tszyu,Calzaghe or even Lewis. im here to make a case for international fighters so they get more respect in terms of there quality.

and to say im totally anti USA is just so wrong

i follow Notre Dame in Football and Basketball.
im constantly on the Miami Dolphin ESPN board.
im a huge fan of Baseball and am currently hitting .615 in my comp having played about 12 games.

i used to love Pernell and Marvin Hagler is my second favourite fighter all time.

i was here to amke it even to see that there is balance with your USA fighters getting respect and to defend our international guys.

Thats it.

also i just want to add one more thing. people on here think i know nothing about boxing they think im just some idiot that likes Aussie fighters.
but if you were to go into the Boxing tipping Comp ask them who is up near the top and after this week im pretty sure im leading the comp out of about 35 fans or so.

[LeedsLad]

Id say its more the other way round, theres a mentality that if the fighter hasnt fought in the US hes a "bum". Which of course, is total bullshit.

[BoppaZoo]

I don't have animosity to my Ameriacn brother - I love them. I get pissed off when they constantly downplay good ferign boxers though - and they do. Worse thing is they downplay it as their opinion but it's just complete and utter bias and UNFORTUNATELY for some reason for any boxer to be considered great they 1st have to be considered great in the Americans eyes - that's a fact.

This is what angers me.thats why i do what i do. im only defending the guys that should get respect.
i agree with you 100%.

all us fans want is for our fighters to get a bit more respect and i think that goes for everbody that is a International Boxing Fan.

[New Wind]

I have to admit that I do sometimes favour the "international" fighter, solely on the grounds of him being "international".

I do this, partly because I usually know him better and partly because, like many non-americans - i think - I'm fed up with the American way of interacting with the rest of the world.
In Boxing as in most other aspects of life.

There is a whole world outside America and the feeling I generally have towards Americans is that you guys are oblivious to most anything going on outside of your boarders.

This has very little to do with boxing per se, but it may help to shed some light over the "anti-American" sentiment here, as in other places.

Correct me if my assumptions below are wrong. Let me state first off that I do not agree with any sort of violence - at all - performed on either side.

1. you don't understand that 9/11 is a logical consequence of your foreign policy since ww2

2. you don't understand that Israel as a state, financed by USA is the main reason for the middle east conflict, thus making YOU the main reason for it.

3. you don't understand that invading a country and fighting peeps that are defending their homes is a war that cannot be won. It never has been and history is full of examples of this.

4. you don't have much history yourselves, so history as a subject is of little importance - rendering you unable to correct the mistakes of yore and maiking them again and again.

5. you speak English and that's it - and automatically assume that the rest of us will abandon our mother tongues in order for us to communicate - when in fact our languages are, for most parts, older than yours

6. you have all the power in the world and very little understanding of what to do with it, so you play the policemen of the world. No one likes the police.

7. your nation pollutes more than all the rest of the world combined (!)
and your government won't sign agreements to lower the emissions of green house gasses. It's as if you think that pollution won't hit America as hard as the rest of the world. I don't know why you think this.. other than you are God's chosen people or something like that? Enlighten me..

8. your "constitutional rights" as individuals to persue happines only goes for those who agree with you. If your idea of happiness differs from the US model, you will be slaughtered as "terror cells" when in fact, most peeps just want to be left in peace.

9. you seem to think that all other nations wish you harm, when in fact you could just withdraw your troops and leave people alone.

10. you are omnipotent, but fear the rest of us. I guess you always have, since being evicted from the old countries and beginning the systematic extermination of anything alien.

The list goes on..
This is to say that when dealing with Americans, I for one tend to have all this in the back of my mind - which sometimes, I admit, clouds my judgement of a fighter.
When an American fighter loses to a European, I generally rejoice. Mostly because in my clouded mind, the European fighter has beaten none other than GW Bush and his terror regime (not even elected - and you still claim that you are a democratic nation, licenced to over throw foreign officials, if you thing they are wronfully installed)

I know this is unfair to a boxer who just tries to do his best and it really is something that I am aware of - but, as I said above, the world outside boxing clouds my judgement.

Seen isolated, I agree that Pernell would prolly have Zoo's number, but I would back KT in any discussion.

And JC, who is fighting my fav fighter next, will never be in any trouble against any shape of bhop, prime or no prime.. And Kessler will retire them both.
Why? because Kessler is Danish and so am I:-)
(I hope you realize that I know this is not a valid argument I'm making, but merely an example of the way I sometimes think)

In reality, I see that JC has stuff to trouble Kessler and that x is not the ideal guy to fight if you want certain victory..

It irritates me that Eurofighters are being scolded for not going where the big fights are. Where is the biggest fight of 07?
Cardiff, wales, that's where. Why would either JC or VW want to go to Vegas for chump change to get cheateed by some bought judges like Sturm vs. ODLH, when thay can make lots more by fighting each other in Cardiff?

It's the arrogance and ignorance (funny how those two always go hand in hand, ain't it?), I think, that most non US peeps feel comes from America that have them hoping for the "international" fighter to win.

And for the record...
Football is the most played sport in the world. It's called football, because the nature of the game involves using your feet on the ball, rather than the hands (basketball, volleyball, handball (the real handball, not the silly game against a wall, that you guys think I'm referring to) american football, etc.)

So a small step in the right direction would be to acknowledge this fact and call the sport football and not some silly name that you have made up. Soccer? what is that? (this point goes for the Aussies as well - tho I'm sure they really know better:-) their's is just habbit, rather than arrogance.

So... that said - I hereby promise to make an effort to better my ways.

Increase the peace.

[BoppaZoo]

Id say its more the other way round, theres a mentality that if the fighter hasnt fought in the US hes a "bum". Which of course, is total bullshit.YES Spot on Leedslad. i agree once again.
Monzon mostly fought in South America and hardly ever fought in the USA and he gets respect.

i feel Joe Calzaghe has done the same but doesnt get no where near as much respect as he should. i feel Carlos Monzon is one of the only guys that is not from say North America that gets the respect he deserves.

how many times have we heard European fighters or Asian or Aussie guys get hell and i dont know why this is.
like ive said many times before these guys (Lewis,Tszyu,Klitschko,Wilde,Calzaghe,Pacquaio) have copt a fair bit of criticism.

Yet when i defend these guys i get hell for showing my fan side a bit to much for defending these guys.
i can handle these fighters not getting picked in a Fight to win but what i cant handle is when they say oh they were overated and only beat B Grade fighters.

[Odo]

Its not so much an animosity...as it is a negative outlook on.

Like any good US fighter is a media creation. Like anytime a US poster feels a US fighter would beat a non-US one....they do so, not because of careful analisys, but because they reside within US borders.

And trust me, its out there. I dont know where you are located (if its outside of the US, then it may explain why you dont see it as much...) but trust me, ITS PREVELANT!!! Its all over the place. I know many, MANY of the US posters here complain all of the time to each other about it. Its in almost every post of the like (US fighter vs non-US fighter).

And on top of it all, its hypocritical. Seeing as how, most of the time, there is never any points to correspond with it. Never any type of fact to back their opinion....but just, YOU FAVOR THE US GUY CAUSE HE IS FROM THE US!

Its getting disgusting...and trust me, I aint the only one sick of it.


Most of the time it is the other way round here on esb! A lot of those childish posters from the USA parrot the bullshit they have read on those biased american dominated websites like boxingtalk or that totally biased american box mag "The Ring".
There are a lot of very knowledgeable American posters here on esb,but there are a lot of those aforementiond silly kids,too.
"Shannon Briggs is the best heavy weight "
" James Toney is the best fighter out there"
and so on,and so on.
I for my part have no problem with an American poster who favours his boy against a foreign fighter!However,I strongly object some of those weird explanations why an American fighter is superior to his foreign counterpart.
I,too,root for any fighter from my home country,but that doesnt mean that I am blind or naive enough to call him the favourite just because he stems from the same country like me and his soul is similar to mine.
Mate,a lot of truth can be found in your post,but I for my part dont like your whinny attitude a lot.
Why the hell do you think this website is called eastsideboxing? Ever thought about it?
And one thing is for sure:the mechanism of international pro boxing surely work in favour of american or american based pro fighters.
Most of the leading box mags or websites are either american or american dominated.Up to a few years ago the USA was the mecca of pro boxing due to the USA's capability to provide huge amounts of money for lots of pro fights.Right now the German market is getting more and more important.Apart from a handful of elite fighters most pro boxers earn much more money there than in the USA.
And an American passport still means lots of money for pro fighter.
American supermiddle Lacy is a good example:he was schooled and totally dominated by Gaidar Gaidarbekov in his last amateur fight before he turned pro.In the paid ranks he beat a couple of American club fighters and was called one of the most promising talent of all weight classes by almost all American websited,mags,and experts.Calzaghe brutally exposed him.
Nevertheless Lacy has earned quite a lot of money in his pro career so far.
Do you really think a non-american with Lacy's skills would have earned that much money? There were dozens of fighters at the amateurs who could easily beat Lacy but who never turned pro due to the wrong passport.
A passport is very important in the paid ranks-whether you like it or not.And the most important passport is the american one at present(though a german one helps a lot ,too).
Just one example:Darell Wilson,American cruiser weight.
No,I dont try to belittle him or something like that.
He seems to be a very decent cruiser with a very decent punch.
However,why the hell is he ranked ahead of Marco Huck at most leading mags and websites?
Wilson lost to both Tokarev and Cora.Tokarev beat Wilson and Cora,but was schooled and totally dominated by Huck in his last fight.
Wilson 's last fight was a victory against a totally unknown African who even lost to African journeyman Akshamba.
Surprise,surprise! You can find Wilson ' s name ahead of Huck's and Tokarev's name in most of those american and american dominated mags,websites,and so on.
Makes you think,eh!
Tell me: do you really think that you could see Wilson rated higher than Tokarev(to whom he lost,and who also beat Wilson's conqueror Cora)) or Huck(who beat Tokarev) if he hadnt had an American passport?
Of course not!
Anti american sentiment here? I dont know!
Pavlik is a great fighter.I like him a lot,but peope shouldnt be surprised to get critisized when calling him a p4p fighter and so on.
Money is th name of this game.And the Americans still have a lot of them.
There is such a huge pool of talent in the countries of the former soviet union(and of course on Cuba,too),but there is no tv money,and no capital and infrastructure for the pro business.Do you know that there are more amateur fighters in the Ukraine than in all western european countries combined?
Cuba and the countries of the former soviet union have been dominating at the amateurs for ages.They would be dominating the pro business,too,if..........money...........tv.........professional promoters.....and so and so on.
You have to understand the mechanism of the pro business.I love boxing-both amateur and pro boxing.However,I am fully aware that in the paid ranks the rules are not equal for all players.American fighers have an unfair advantage in a lot of fields.
Anti-american sentiment? No,there are good american fighters,and there are excellent american posters here on esb.
However,the first guy who jumps out of trench in a war always takes the flak.The Americans are the dominating players in this game.Therefore there are more American casulties,more critisism,and more anti sentiment than toward other nations.
I for my part get quite angry when I read stupid comments like "Larry Holmes would have done this" and "American fighter X " would have done this if he fought nowadays.
Lets not forget that at former times all of these so-called all time greats had no real competition from other countries.
If Cuban and Russian fighters had had the opportunity to turn pro 20,30 years ago a lot of those all time greats wouldnt be called all time greats at present anymore because they would have been exposed by their Cuban and Russian counterparts.
Uh! What a long post! I'd better stop here!

[Club Fighter]

I know what you're talking about, man. I say Mayweather beats Hatton (which is painfully obvious) and every European tells me I'm an "American asshole who totally discredits Hatton, Europe, and any fighter who is un-American. This is more typical anti-European fare from the Americans. Yankee go home!" I'm like, "Uhhh, ok, but Mayweather still beats Hatton." They've been having the nerve to throw race into it lately, too, with their "Americans don't like Hatton because he's a White European" comments. And I'm thinking, "Newsflash, the majority of America is White." There's no reasoning with those guys. Hatton still loses, too.

[deram]

Well...

The thread you refer to (all time favorites) there is on very say trend: People pick fighters from many countries, EXCEPT Americans - most Americans pick only Americans.

If anything that proves the American bias and rather that complaining that others notice that - I think it would be better to acknowledge it and discuss why it unfortunately is so.

[smk]

I haven´t read most of the thread, but let me tell you this:

- Personally I am as pro american as anyone from outside America can be. There are some things I don´t like about the US, like the religious fundamentalism, the greed, the social darwinism or the extreme law and order policy but the many good sides of this country make up for that.

- Nonetheless I only read the ESB-board because the amount of americans is relatively small. I have learned the many americans have a problem if you only doubt that they are the greatest nation under the sun or that their boxers are the greatest ones on this planet.
Even objective dicussions about the latter often lead to stupid insults from american board members. (Not from every american here!)

- So what I want to say is: It´s a little bit hard with you americans. Many of you only care for american fighters (who are considered gods only by yourself.)

- Examples? Jermain Taylor for instanance seems to be the king of the middleweight division although he never tried to unify or fought anybody with a pulse. Fighters like the Klitschkos are "paper camps" of course(?).
I forgot: Taylor beat (or not) an aging champion who beat up welterweights troughout his career.

- Hopkins hinself is p4p Nr. 1 or 2 in some guys books although he did nothing else than fight unknown guys at MW and beat another extremely overrated american in Tarver.
Hopkins always had the frame to fight at heavyweight but he kept himself starving to death in order to fight midgets. But it seems okay for the average american spectator.

- BTW: Hopkins victim Winky Wright is just another example for the american bias. He gets decisevly beaten by an old man but he is still p4p top 5 to most americans. If he was european and white people would call him an exposed and overprotected bum but not p4p top 5.

- P4P: Maywheather only won his fight againt ODLH because this full time promoter without fight experience (who is years past his prime) ran out of gas in the last 2 rounds... but still he´s p4p Nr.1? That can´t be unless you´re a biased american. Some people even have him at Nr. 20 or 30 in an ATG list. Unbelieveable! A guy who only runs!!!

- You guys remember another hype job? Lacy?
In the past I often read of him as a future hall of famer. Need I say more...
Now it seem that noone is able to give Calzaghe credit. Suddenly Lacy is just an overmatched bum.

- After the Lacy debacle some americans still ask questions like: Who´s interrested in Calzaghe-Kessler?
Answer: Not many americans as it seems- but I am always interrested when the two dominant guys of a divison fight. Regardless of nationality.

[Thom]

First, I want to ask all of the mods on here to PLEASE leave this in this section of the forums....it is more valid in here in this section than anywhere else on the board.

Please...and thank you.

Now onto the post....

Ok, let me start by saying why I am making this post. As of late on here, I have noticed a huge rise in the negativity toward anything US on this forum coming from the non-us posters. Whether it be US fighters....US events....or most notably US posters.

Its become that if you favor say, Mayweather over Hatton...you do so because your from the United States. Never mind any real concrete reason.

Recently I have had this said to me because of the following...

1- I felt Whitaker would beat KT.
2- I felt PRIME Holyfield would beat Sultan.
3- I feel Hopkins still poses a huge threat to Calzaghe.

As I said, its like noone can even argue a point anymore without bringing this into the arguement....valid or not. Before, I would take this as admission of the fact that they couldnt bring anything concrete into the arguement....but the rise in this stupidity has made it MUCH more prevelent as of late. I have even seen posters that I respect HIGHLY use this.

What set this all off was this was brought up during a discussion of ALL TIME FAVORITE FIGHTERS!!!!!!!!!! What does where a fighter or a fan is from have to do with why you like them? NOTHING...thats what.

And dont get me wrong, if someone were to bring up that the mainstream US media severely underrates foriegn fighters....I would 100% agree. But, that does not lend credance for the most part here. And to be just as honest, the non-US posters on here are just as bad, if not worse in some cases as the aformentioned media outlets....and double that for the US posters....its rare we use this as an arguement (mostly when its something ridiculous that is said...never just as the meat of our point).

Sorry to go on a rant here, but I KNOW FOR A FACT that I am not the only US poster on here that is sick of this bullshit. I under most circumstances know my shit when it comes to this sport....I form my opinions off of what I have seen, what I have learned and what I know....not where I was born.

So, to all of you out there that seem to dip into the above-mentioned well everytime its a US vs Non-US fighter post....next time, please, do some research, form an opinion and attempt to present this opinion using actual boxing knowledge, rather than letting your nationalistic views cloud your judgement and ruin your posts...

:good

(again, I hope we can keep this in the General Boxing Forum...it really doesnt apply anywhere else....and sorry for the rant....but this is just getting old and fucking annoying)

I've noticed a number of posters who constantly decry the "racism" or "nationalism" of others when confronted with opinions or, in many cases FACTS that they don't like. When they are pressed for proof of this supposed bias, it usually boils down to "it's true because I said so." I'm sick and tired of reading the drivel from many posters here, but hey, it's the fucking internet. Idiocy is to be expected. And frankly, there are much, much worse places in cyberspace than ESB.

[Thom]

That guy Odo is the worst

I'm glad this has been brought up

Yes, he is.

[Thom]

I know what you're talking about, man. I say Mayweather beats Hatton (which is painfully obvious) and every European tells me I'm an "American asshole who totally discredits Hatton, Europe, and any fighter who is un-American. This is more typical anti-European fare from the Americans. Yankee go home!" I'm like, "Uhhh, ok, but Mayweather still beats Hatton." They've been having the nerve to throw race into it lately, too, with their "Americans don't like Hatton because he's a White European" comments. And I'm thinking, "Newsflash, the majority of America is White." There's no reasoning with those guys. Hatton still loses, too.

Don't even get me started on that shit. :-(

To top it off, half the time that nonsense is being regurgitated by American fans who have no compunction about cheering for Europeans over other Americans strictly because of race.

[Thom]

It seems [some] of you Americans are not happy if the rest of us are not kissing your arses.:-( I am sure reasonable Americans are embaressed by this!:oops: :think

Hey, I don't want my ass kissed. I don't view myself as superior just because of my passport. I think of a lot of this nonsense has more to do with the prevailing social and political issues of the day than sport as evinced by that long, rambling political post a page back.

I didn't vote for Dubya, so don't take your frustration over our idiotic foreign policy out on me whenever I dare to criticize a fighter who isn't from the States or cheer for one who is.

[BoppaZoo]

Well, lets look at what you said for a second.

The biggest fights are generally made in the states. Hatton knew this, that is why he left the comfort of his home to show his skills here.

I have heard this said.

Calzaghe has stayed overseas fighting average to below average fighters for a very long time. Even he has stated his desire to do this.

I have heard that said.

Now, as for people who state Joe is a bum for not doing it yet....yes there are some that say it. I didnt say it didnt exist, but for every one US moron who does this....there are 5 non-US posters doing the same or worse.

Let me tell you a few things that were said to ME (I have been a regular on here for a LOOOOONG time....people know I know my shit....even the ones that dont nessesarily agree with what I say will tell ya that) that have led me to feeling this way and just getting fed up.

1- I stated a while back in a post about Pernell Whitaker vs KT that I favored Whitaker. I gave reasons (he fought better comp...he has the physical edge in most areas other than power...he has never been anywhere close to being KOd, and seeing as how he is easily the better boxer, KT would need a KO win and bigger punchers never could do it....etc). Basically gave a well thoughtout arguement. And I was told by about 10 different posters that Im just an american picking the american fighter....nothing else.

2- After Sultan beat Briggs, some idiot made a post about Sultan "destroying" a PRIME Evander Holyfield. I mentioned why I wouldnt think this is possible (Evander is much higher output fighter than Briggs...has a better chin...is more skilled...has proven it vs the better comp...etc.). And again....I only felt that way according to quite a few because I am american.

3- There is a favorite fighters post on here, asking what people's all time favorite fighters are (top 5). Well, after a few pages, someone said that non-US posters are picking non-US and US fighters...yet US posters arent....yet, looking back, many US posters picked foriegn (to them at least) born fighters...Mexican, PR, Canadian, European, etc. In other words, once again, there was nothing to back it up other than someones utter disdain for anything american....not even the replies RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FACES! And again, who cares where someone is from if they are one of your favorites????

There are tons more...these are just a few that popped out in my mind....as well as the one that set it off.

So like I said, I can understand that it wouldnt jump out nessesarily to you, being a non-US poster (not that you are one of the guilty ones...just that if its not directed toward you, it sometimes is hard to see)....but as a regular poster on here for YEARS...I can tell you that as of the last few months (always kinda been here, just been utterly ridiculous lately)....its been like 5 to 1 non-US idiots to their american counterparts using nationalism as an arguement as opposed to knowledge.
The part about the Tszyu vs Whitaker thread at 140 who wins.

i just wanted to add though i wasnt simply being just a biased fan towards Tszyu and gave plenty of reasons why i had picked Tszyu. i remember this thread and i found it very ammussing at times.

sues2nd i just wanted to say the only reason i got upset in that thread is because people made me feel like i was solely picking Tszyu because i was a fan.

but in that thread sues2nd i gave my reasons clearly and they were that against Southpaws in Tszyu's career he had a Pro record of 8 wins-0 loses with 8 KO's. and im pretty sure 6 of those southpaws were slick boxing types.
that was my reason and it wasnt until most american fans that were not (Sues2nd,Sweet Pea) were giving reasons simply beause Whitaker is ranked higher all time by Ring.
these fans upset me it wasnt the ones that gave actual evidence based on style (Sues2nd,Sweet Pea) . it was the other fans the ones that hadnt taken any notice of Tszyu. and what was worse was the Whitaker fans thought i wasnt a fan of him. i liked Whitaker and loved watching a few of his fights.

at the end of the day i was upset because Tszyu deserved more respect than Whitaker TKO 7 against Tszyu.
i admit at times i get a bit defensive but its only from the fans that dont pay attention to how hard it is for someone in Europe,Asia,etc, to make it to the top in boxing.

and some ask why and i will answer the same way always is that overseas we dont get the same training at a young age as the talented USA fighters get. its hard for these guys to make especially in the USA were the sport is bigger.

Its all about a bit more respect for me that all we international fans are after.

[Thom]

Well...

The thread you refer to (all time favorites) there is on very say trend: People pick fighters from many countries, EXCEPT Americans - most Americans pick only Americans.

If anything that proves the American bias and rather that complaining that others notice that - I think it would be better to acknowledge it and discuss why it unfortunately is so.

:roll:

If it proves anything, it's that you're a whining jackass who makes false accusations of "anti-white" racism at the drop of a hat.

[deram]

:roll:

If it proves anything, it's that you're a whining jackass who makes false accusations of "anti-white" racism at the drop of a hat.

Good to see that you have a coherent and intelligent argument. I guess that proves a point.

[Flatlander]

:lol: This is mild to what it use to be. Back when ESB was new it was much worse. ESB has almost become tame in my opinion. No real race or nationality wars. In fact one can get banned here now for even hinting a ethnicity or national bias. In fact ESB is rather boring now. Everytime I get into a discussion with someone about the subject of bias I seem to somehow get banned.

This is a sight created by a socialist lot. Eastern block natives that for the most part think that the U.S.A. is the biggest terrorist and the worst violator of human rights in the world.

They have for so long had to fight for recognition in the boxing world. That now that they have a measure of success they like to gloat. It is not as bad as it use to be here. With that measure of success has also come a measure of complacency. Nothing to argue about when you are on top. Or seemingly on top.

ESB is mild now compared to 5 or 6 years ago.

[Thom]

Good to see that you have a coherent and intelligent argument. I guess that proves a point.

I don't have to waste my time composing an extensive argument to prove that you're an ass. I'm sure that anyone who has read your posts will back me up.

[ron u.k.]

it's pretty simple really sues.your a superpower, basically the worlds only superpower and you're going to attract shit,wether it be in sport,politics,economics or tiddlywinks it comes with the territory.us brits got it for a helluva long time and even today when we havn't been a superpower for a long,long,time we still attract shit as the old colonial power.get used to it it's part of the deal.

[ChuckYoungblood]

:roll:

If it proves anything, it's that you're a whining jackass who makes false accusations of "anti-white" racism at the drop of a hat.

Eh, did you qote the right post. I don't think Deram said that...

But of course people are more interested in fighters from their own country. And sometimes one guy can derail a whole thread by making an insane and biased analysis, causing levelheaded people to grab for their guns to "even out the balance". I definately feel that way sometimes, when one fighter gets all the praise.

[o_money]

I have to admit that I do sometimes favour the "international" fighter, solely on the grounds of him being "international".

I do this, partly because I usually know him better and partly because, like many non-americans - i think - I'm fed up with the American way of interacting with the rest of the world.
In Boxing as in most other aspects of life.

There is a whole world outside America and the feeling I generally have towards Americans is that you guys are oblivious to most anything going on outside of your boarders.

This has very little to do with boxing per se, but it may help to shed some light over the "anti-American" sentiment here, as in other places.

Correct me if my assumptions below are wrong. Let me state first off that I do not agree with any sort of violence - at all - performed on either side.

1. you don't understand that 9/11 is a logical consequence of your foreign policy since ww2

2. you don't understand that Israel as a state, financed by USA is the main reason for the middle east conflict, thus making YOU the main reason for it.

3. you don't understand that invading a country and fighting peeps that are defending their homes is a war that cannot be won. It never has been and history is full of examples of this.

4. you don't have much history yourselves, so history as a subject is of little importance - rendering you unable to correct the mistakes of yore and maiking them again and again.

5. you speak English and that's it - and automatically assume that the rest of us will abandon our mother tongues in order for us to communicate - when in fact our languages are, for most parts, older than yours

6. you have all the power in the world and very little understanding of what to do with it, so you play the policemen of the world. No one likes the police.

7. your nation pollutes more than all the rest of the world combined (!)
and your government won't sign agreements to lower the emissions of green house gasses. It's as if you think that pollution won't hit America as hard as the rest of the world. I don't know why you think this.. other than you are God's chosen people or something like that? Enlighten me..

8. your "constitutional rights" as individuals to persue happines only goes for those who agree with you. If your idea of happiness differs from the US model, you will be slaughtered as "terror cells" when in fact, most peeps just want to be left in peace.

9. you seem to think that all other nations wish you harm, when in fact you could just withdraw your troops and leave people alone.

10. you are omnipotent, but fear the rest of us. I guess you always have, since being evicted from the old countries and beginning the systematic extermination of anything alien.

The list goes on..
This is to say that when dealing with Americans, I for one tend to have all this in the back of my mind - which sometimes, I admit, clouds my judgement of a fighter.
When an American fighter loses to a European, I generally rejoice. Mostly because in my clouded mind, the European fighter has beaten none other than GW Bush and his terror regime (not even elected - and you still claim that you are a democratic nation, licenced to over throw foreign officials, if you thing they are wronfully installed)

I know this is unfair to a boxer who just tries to do his best and it really is something that I am aware of - but, as I said above, the world outside boxing clouds my judgement.

Seen isolated, I agree that Pernell would prolly have Zoo's number, but I would back KT in any discussion.

And JC, who is fighting my fav fighter next, will never be in any trouble against any shape of bhop, prime or no prime.. And Kessler will retire them both.
Why? because Kessler is Danish and so am I:-)
(I hope you realize that I know this is not a valid argument I'm making, but merely an example of the way I sometimes think)

In reality, I see that JC has stuff to trouble Kessler and that x is not the ideal guy to fight if you want certain victory..

It irritates me that Eurofighters are being scolded for not going where the big fights are. Where is the biggest fight of 07?
Cardiff, wales, that's where. Why would either JC or VW want to go to Vegas for chump change to get cheateed by some bought judges like Sturm vs. ODLH, when thay can make lots more by fighting each other in Cardiff?

It's the arrogance and ignorance (funny how those two always go hand in hand, ain't it?), I think, that most non US peeps feel comes from America that have them hoping for the "international" fighter to win.

And for the record...
Football is the most played sport in the world. It's called football, because the nature of the game involves using your feet on the ball, rather than the hands (basketball, volleyball, handball (the real handball, not the silly game against a wall, that you guys think I'm referring to) american football, etc.)

So a small step in the right direction would be to acknowledge this fact and call the sport football and not some silly name that you have made up. Soccer? what is that? (this point goes for the Aussies as well - tho I'm sure they really know better:-) their's is just habbit, rather than arrogance.

So... that said - I hereby promise to make an effort to better my ways.

Increase the peace.

How old are you? Seriously.

I spent twenty minutes writing a big long reply to each of your pointsbut I'm not going to post it because this is the BS logic "flame war" logic that this thread is talking about.

I will say one thing. You admit that you will back a guy like Tszu over Whitiker even if you think that pea would have his number. Well thats crap. And its not crap becaues your anti american its crap because you are agruing from an illogical position, which means no matter how hard you try you will inevitably start using unreasonable and illogical arguements to back your point of view up. And there is nothing more annoying then someone who is being unreasonable.

So please leave your biases at the door.

[PolishPummler]

Sissies

[Flatlander]

I have to admit that I do sometimes favour the "international" fighter, solely on the grounds of him being "international".

I do this, partly because I usually know him better and partly because, like many non-americans - i think - I'm fed up with the American way of interacting with the rest of the world.
In Boxing as in most other aspects of life.

There is a whole world outside America and the feeling I generally have towards Americans is that you guys are oblivious to most anything going on outside of your boarders.

This has very little to do with boxing per se, but it may help to shed some light over the "anti-American" sentiment here, as in other places.

Correct me if my assumptions below are wrong. Let me state first off that I do not agree with any sort of violence - at all - performed on either side.

1. you don't understand that 9/11 is a logical consequence of your foreign policy since ww2

2. you don't understand that Israel as a state, financed by USA is the main reason for the middle east conflict, thus making YOU the main reason for it.

3. you don't understand that invading a country and fighting peeps that are defending their homes is a war that cannot be won. It never has been and history is full of examples of this.

4. you don't have much history yourselves, so history as a subject is of little importance - rendering you unable to correct the mistakes of yore and maiking them again and again.

5. you speak English and that's it - and automatically assume that the rest of us will abandon our mother tongues in order for us to communicate - when in fact our languages are, for most parts, older than yours

6. you have all the power in the world and very little understanding of what to do with it, so you play the policemen of the world. No one likes the police.

7. your nation pollutes more than all the rest of the world combined (!)
and your government won't sign agreements to lower the emissions of green house gasses. It's as if you think that pollution won't hit America as hard as the rest of the world. I don't know why you think this.. other than you are God's chosen people or something like that? Enlighten me..

8. your "constitutional rights" as individuals to persue happines only goes for those who agree with you. If your idea of happiness differs from the US model, you will be slaughtered as "terror cells" when in fact, most peeps just want to be left in peace.

9. you seem to think that all other nations wish you harm, when in fact you could just withdraw your troops and leave people alone.

10. you are omnipotent, but fear the rest of us. I guess you always have, since being evicted from the old countries and beginning the systematic extermination of anything alien.

The list goes on..
This is to say that when dealing with Americans, I for one tend to have all this in the back of my mind - which sometimes, I admit, clouds my judgement of a fighter.
When an American fighter loses to a European, I generally rejoice. Mostly because in my clouded mind, the European fighter has beaten none other than GW Bush and his terror regime (not even elected - and you still claim that you are a democratic nation, licenced to over throw foreign officials, if you thing they are wronfully installed)

I know this is unfair to a boxer who just tries to do his best and it really is something that I am aware of - but, as I said above, the world outside boxing clouds my judgement.

Seen isolated, I agree that Pernell would prolly have Zoo's number, but I would back KT in any discussion.

And JC, who is fighting my fav fighter next, will never be in any trouble against any shape of bhop, prime or no prime.. And Kessler will retire them both.
Why? because Kessler is Danish and so am I:-)
(I hope you realize that I know this is not a valid argument I'm making, but merely an example of the way I sometimes think)

In reality, I see that JC has stuff to trouble Kessler and that x is not the ideal guy to fight if you want certain victory..

It irritates me that Eurofighters are being scolded for not going where the big fights are. Where is the biggest fight of 07?
Cardiff, wales, that's where. Why would either JC or VW want to go to Vegas for chump change to get cheateed by some bought judges like Sturm vs. ODLH, when thay can make lots more by fighting each other in Cardiff?

It's the arrogance and ignorance (funny how those two always go hand in hand, ain't it?), I think, that most non US peeps feel comes from America that have them hoping for the "international" fighter to win.

And for the record...
Football is the most played sport in the world. It's called football, because the nature of the game involves using your feet on the ball, rather than the hands (basketball, volleyball, handball (the real handball, not the silly game against a wall, that you guys think I'm referring to) american football, etc.)

So a small step in the right direction would be to acknowledge this fact and call the sport football and not some silly name that you have made up. Soccer? what is that? (this point goes for the Aussies as well - tho I'm sure they really know better:-) their's is just habbit, rather than arrogance.

So... that said - I hereby promise to make an effort to better my ways.

Increase the peace.

First of all I only perused your post because it was rambling and to damn long. However, from what I did read. I have come to the conclusion that with out a doubt you are a fucking idiot.

[Thom]

Eh, did you qote the right post. I don't think Deram said that...





No, he didn't. However, he has in plenty of his other posts, and I have no compunction about admiting that I used the fact that he showed up in this thread to take a shot at him. :good

[kg0208]

I know for a fact that I have had to defend a post or 2 of mine simply because there is always someone saying something about American bias, or I only picked this fighter because he is American.

I also know for a fact that there are a couple of particular posters who bring it up every thread. If you feel it is your AGENDA and NEED to defend against American bias (even when it's not there and something you are imagining) then don't be surprised when someone calls you out about your own bias.

There is a bias in EVERY country about their own fighters. But it's not often you hear a Brit talking about a Argentenian bias. And if you are American, and can't figure out that their are other good fighters elsewhere, well you deserve what you get. But it's THAT poster who is biased, he is not a representation of Americans.

Lastly....you cannot call Lacy a hype job and then ask for credit for beating him. I never thought Lacy was great and picked Calzaghe to win. If Lacy was an "American hype job" then you are implying that he wasn't very good....Calzaghe nor anyone else is going to get credit for beating a "Hype Job".

[bill poster]

I know what you're talking about, man. I say Mayweather beats Hatton (which is painfully obvious) and every European tells me I'm an "American asshole who totally discredits Hatton, Europe, and any fighter who is un-American. This is more typical anti-European fare from the Americans. Yankee go home!" I'm like, "Uhhh, ok, but Mayweather still beats Hatton." They've been having the nerve to throw race into it lately, too, with their "Americans don't like Hatton because he's a White European" comments. And I'm thinking, "Newsflash, the majority of America is White." There's no reasoning with those guys. Hatton still loses, too.

You need to back up these comments-I havent seen anything remotely racist from the UK posters..if someone says something like ' you will be using your flag to wipe away your tears' etc..its just banter..dont play the race card, there is nothing worse:-(

[Smazz20]

I know for a fact that I have had to defend a post or 2 of mine simply because there is always someone saying something about American bias, or I only picked this fighter because he is American.

I also know for a fact that there are a couple of particular posters who bring it up every thread. If you feel it is your AGENDA and NEED to defend against American bias (even when it's not there and something you are imagining) then don't be surprised when someone calls you out about your own bias.

There is a bias in EVERY country about their own fighters. But it's not often you hear a Brit talking about a Argentenian bias. And if you are American, and can't figure out that their are other good fighters elsewhere, well you deserve what you get. But it's THAT poster who is biased, he is not a representation of Americans.

Lastly....you cannot call Lacy a hype job and then ask for credit for beating him. I never thought Lacy was great and picked Calzaghe to win. If Lacy was an "American hype job" then you are implying that he wasn't very good....Calzaghe nor anyone else is going to get credit for beating a "Hype Job".


Calzaghe ko1 Prime Jones:D


Only messing. Your actually, imo, one of the best posters on here and I admire the way you try to keep an objective view at all times.

My whole problem with any bias, be it American or anti-American is that people get critiscised for WHERE they fight instead of WHO they fight. Why should it matter if anyone fights at home their entire career. Afterall, there is such a thing as DVD'S or T.V or the interent. You get to see whatever fighter you wish to see. Does Hatton beating Castillo in LV garner him more credit than beating him in U.K? Does Hopkins beating Eastman in America get him less credit than beating him in England? Or be it an Asian fighter or South American or whomever. It's all about the quality of opposition, not quality of venue.

[ripcity]

I have noticeted an anti-American sentiment hear that has nothing to do with boxing. Like all hate it is unrational and unjunustified. Even though those who hate will allways make up excuseses.

[Thom]

The real problem here isn't people hating on Americans, it's Americans hating on the Klitschkos. It's the single biggest case of racism and ethnocentrism on the site. There are other Europeans who are examples of this, but not to the same extreme.
:-(

Because if you don't fawn over Wlad and Vitlay and hail them as the best HWs of all time, you must be a racist or a xenophobe or both, right? I really want to like the Klitschkos, but I've noticed on this site and others that if you attempt to proffer any critical analysis of their places in history or refute claims by their most ardent supporters, the name calling and crying starts. Now, there are plenty of people who do in fact take shots at the Klitschkos non-stop, but I honestly believe that the majority of them are just doing it to take the piss out of their wack job fanbase.

Discussions involving the brothers are usually ridiculous, so I do my best to avoid them.

Edited for grammar.

[Thom]

You need to back up these comments-I havent seen anything remotely racist from the UK posters..if someone says something like ' you will be using your flag to wipe away your tears' etc..its just banter..dont play the race card, there is nothing worse:-(

I don't know what fucking threads you've been reading, but I've seen plenty of people complaining about "anti-white" racism in America after Hatton's most recent fights. Just look up the threads that were started post Castillo. And the ridiculous part about that is that they were claiming that the Americans were upset because he beat a Mexican fighter. :lol:

And for the record, we aren't "playing the race card" by pointing out the fact that there are people who are making preposterous accusations of racism. :nono They are. And you're right, there is nothing worse than attempt to besmirch someone's character just because you're a crybaby who can't deal with differing opinions. Nice try to flip the discussion around though.

[Steve Fox]

Moaning on about how everything is so anti-American - give it a rest you yank! If there's any particular animosity towards the US on these pages I haven't seen it. So why don't you take your retarded new world views and clear off back to that hole of a country you call home.

[ferd cloupes]

i love you all x

[Thom]

Moaning on about how everything is so anti-American - give it a rest you yank! If there's any particular animosity towards the US on these pages I haven't seen it. So why don't you take your retarded new world views and clear off back to that hole of a country you call home.

Blow me wanker.

[thewoo]

I think that the funniest shit is when fuckers say shit like "Americans only picked Tzyu over Hatton because they are American" or the same for Castillo.

[DoumB]

Well it goes the 2 way arounds, some americans poster bash everything that aint american and some non US bash everything thats US, I guess its a part of this forum

[DoumB]

:-(

Because if you don't fawn over Wlad and Vitlay and hail them as the best HWs of all time, you must be a racist or a xenophobe or both, right? I really want to like the Klitschkos, but I've noticed on this site and other that if you attempt to proffer any critical analysis of their places in history or refute claims by their most ardent supporters, the name calling and crying starts. Now, there are plenty of people who do in fact take shots and the Klitschkos non-stop, but I honestly believe that the majority of them are just doing it to take the piss out of their wack job fanbase.

Discussions involving the brothers are usually ridiculous, so I do my best to avoid them.

Thats not true my friend, some of them actualy hate them for LOT worse reasons then this, simply because of where they from and how they look and act.

[Druid]

It is nieve to think the global politics don't factor into sports, they always have and the world view of a country is always going to be an issue. hell, just look at todays news headlines about the Iraqi football teams victory, that didn't make headline because of soccer prowess alone. The 1936 Berlin Olympic games are anothe rperfect example of this, they are best remembered for Jessie Owens accomplishments.

With that said maybe something valuable can be learned here...Unbridaled patriotism is a bad thing, it caused the rise of Hitler and the first election victory (2004) for GW Bush. We all know where that got the Planet.

It is best if we concentrate on boxing here, but if in fact that isn't happening then at least an understanding of the root cause might be useful.

[Thom]

Thats not true my friend, some of them actualy hate them for LOT worse reasons then this, simply because of where they from and how they look and act.
Hey Bill Poster, you want to see someone "playing the race card"? Just take a look at this asshole's personal best.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

But yeah, I'm another "hater." You got me Doumbo. I hate Wlad because he's classy, white and European. Those sickening characteristics make me want to strangle that big beautiful man. :roll:

[Thom]

It is nieve to think the global politics don't factor into sports, they always have and the world view of a country is always going to be an issue. hell, just look at todays news headlines about the Iraqi football teams victory, that didn't make headline because of soccer prowess alone. The 1936 Berlin Olympic games are anothe rperfect example of this, they are best remembered for Jessie Owens accomplishments.

With that said maybe something valuable can be learned here...Unbridaled patriotism is a bad thing, it caused the rise of Hitler and the first election victory (2004) for GW Bush. We all know where that got the Planet.

It is best if we concentrate on boxing here, but if in fact that isn't happening then at least an understanding of the root cause might be useful.
:good

[Toopretty]

Well I aint going to lie. I am a prejudice poster. I admit it. But I am not prejudice to the fighters. But only to the posters. See, the typical UK poster to me since I been a part of ESB from about 3-4 years ago. I have always USED to ignored the subtle racism. Like calling James Toney, Zab Judah, Floyd Mayweather etc. etc. Ghetto foul mouthed street trash. Fake hip hop gangstas and every thing short of PORCH MONKEY. Me, being black and living in the quote "ghetto" I look at these guys as successful sports athletes that are doing something positive. James Toney is a little over the top b/c he is a funny guy. And that is his personality. The typical black american acts like a zab/floyd/james Not exact but that is how we act, period. They are not thugs..they are not gangstas..they are not killing people..they are not involved with drugs. I mean they like money cars and clothes. That is what we like. As shallow as it is. So b/c these mentioned fighters dont act like Shane Mosley, Evander Holyfield, etc.etc. Nothing wrong with these guys. But nobody acts like Shane. Nobody is really as dry as Evander. I mean we have bold personalities and that is how it is. Other countries that call themselves proper and whatever talk in slang, say dumb things, watch MR. BEAN. I mean, a lot of things that are down right notorious. The UK is the most racist nation that ever existed. Not from my stand point. But your history speaks for its self. That is why I am speaking English right now. NOT BY CHOICE, but was by force. We still see you as the same people. And if you go to a soccer game in the UK dressed like a rapper you might not make it out. Shit, you can dress like tiger woods and not make it out. Anyway, I dont like majority of the UK posters b/c there supreme ignorant nationalism and saying things like "Hatton beat a p4p fighter in Castillo":verysad or "Calzaghe was avoided by Roy and other great super middleweights that were popular in his prime":verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad "last but not least, that David Haye can not only compete but literally knock out majority of the top heavyweights and then beat Wlad in a few years" :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad

[Smazz20]

Well I aint going to lie. I am a prejudice poster. I admit it. But I am not prejudice to the fighters. But only to the posters. See, the typical UK poster to me since I been a part of ESB from about 3-4 years ago. I have always USED to ignored the subtle racism. Like calling James Toney, Zab Judah, Floyd Mayweather etc. etc. Ghetto foul mouthed street trash. Fake hip hop gangstas and every thing short of PORCH MONKEY. Me, being black and living in the quote "ghetto" I look at these guys as successful sports athletes that are doing something positive. James Toney is a little over the top b/c he is a funny guy. And that is his personality. The typical black american acts like a zab/floyd/james Not exact but that is how we act, period. They are not thugs..they are not gangstas..they are not killing people..they are not involved with drugs. I mean they like money cars and clothes. That is what we like. As shallow as it is. So b/c these mentioned fighters dont act like Shane Mosley, Evander Holyfield, etc.etc. Nothing wrong with these guys. But nobody acts like Shane. Nobody is really as dry as Evander. I mean we have bold personalities and that is how it is. Other countries that call themselves proper and whatever talk in slang, say dumb things, watch MR. BEAN. I mean, a lot of things that are down right notorious. The UK is the most racist nation that ever existed. Not from my stand point. But your history speaks for its self. That is why I am speaking English right now. NOT BY CHOICE, but was by force. We still see you as the same people. And if you go to a soccer game in the UK dressed like a rapper you might not make it out. Shit, you can dress like tiger woods and not make it out. Anyway, I dont like majority of the UK posters b/c there supreme ignorant nationalism and saying things like "Hatton beat a p4p fighter in Castillo":verysad or "Calzaghe was avoided by Roy and other great super middleweights that were popular in his prime":verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad "last but not least, that David Haye can not only compete but literally knock out majority of the top heavyweights and then beat Wlad in a few years" :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad :verysad

Mr Bean................Notorious?????? WTF:think

[sues2nd]

The part about the Tszyu vs Whitaker thread at 140 who wins.

i just wanted to add though i wasnt simply being just a biased fan towards Tszyu and gave plenty of reasons why i had picked Tszyu. i remember this thread and i found it very ammussing at times.

sues2nd i just wanted to say the only reason i got upset in that thread is because people made me feel like i was solely picking Tszyu because i was a fan.

but in that thread sues2nd i gave my reasons clearly and they were that against Southpaws in Tszyu's career he had a Pro record of 8 wins-0 loses with 8 KO's. and im pretty sure 6 of those southpaws were slick boxing types.
that was my reason and it wasnt until most american fans that were not (Sues2nd,Sweet Pea) were giving reasons simply beause Whitaker is ranked higher all time by Ring.
these fans upset me it wasnt the ones that gave actual evidence based on style (Sues2nd,Sweet Pea) . it was the other fans the ones that hadnt taken any notice of Tszyu. and what was worse was the Whitaker fans thought i wasnt a fan of him. i liked Whitaker and loved watching a few of his fights.

at the end of the day i was upset because Tszyu deserved more respect than Whitaker TKO 7 against Tszyu.
i admit at times i get a bit defensive but its only from the fans that dont pay attention to how hard it is for someone in Europe,Asia,etc, to make it to the top in boxing.

and some ask why and i will answer the same way always is that overseas we dont get the same training at a young age as the talented USA fighters get. its hard for these guys to make especially in the USA were the sport is bigger.

Its all about a bit more respect for me that all we international fans are after.

Boppa...it wasnt just you man.

You DID bring up the american picking american thing.....BUT, there were others in that post that did it a hell of alot worse than you. Dont sweat it bro.

I know for a fact that I have had to defend a post or 2 of mine simply because there is always someone saying something about American bias, or I only picked this fighter because he is American.

I also know for a fact that there are a couple of particular posters who bring it up every thread. If you feel it is your AGENDA and NEED to defend against American bias (even when it's not there and something you are imagining) then don't be surprised when someone calls you out about your own bias.

There is a bias in EVERY country about their own fighters. But it's not often you hear a Brit talking about a Argentenian bias. And if you are American, and can't figure out that their are other good fighters elsewhere, well you deserve what you get. But it's THAT poster who is biased, he is not a representation of Americans.

Lastly....you cannot call Lacy a hype job and then ask for credit for beating him. I never thought Lacy was great and picked Calzaghe to win. If Lacy was an "American hype job" then you are implying that he wasn't very good....Calzaghe nor anyone else is going to get credit for beating a "Hype Job".

As always....GREAT POST KG!!!

:good

I think that the funniest shit is when fuckers say shit like "Americans only picked Tzyu over Hatton because they are American" or the same for Castillo.

This was really the thing that set it off.

The favorite fighter thread, when the guy said US posters were only picking US fighters....yet all over the thread, there were US picking Chavez, Sanchez, Cotto, etc. Its like sometimes they have no idea what they are even hating on.

I remember that someone told me I felt Miranda should have beaten Abraham because Miranda is a US fighter. I told him that Miranda LIVES in FL, but was born in Columbia. The guys actually said, yes Columbia is in Washington DC (district of columbia for those who dont know)......

:patsch

I had to post a fucking map for the moron to realize how stupid that was.

[Toopretty]

Mr Bean................Notorious?????? WTF:think

I think thinking Mr. Bean was funny is notorious. Thats just me. :nut

[bill poster]

I don't know what fucking threads you've been reading, but I've seen plenty of people complaining about "anti-white" racism in America after Hatton's most recent fights. Just look up the threads that were started post Castillo. And the ridiculous part about that is that they were claiming that the Americans were upset because he beat a Mexican fighter. :lol:

And for the record, we aren't "playing the race card" by pointing out the fact that there are people who are making preposterous accusations of racism. :nono They are. And you're right, there is nothing worse than attempt to besmirch someone's character just because you're a crybaby who can't deal with differing opinions. Nice try to flip the discussion around though.

My 'race card' comment was in regard of an ignorant poster who thinks 'you people' must be a racist comment. I wasnt in town for the Castillo fight- I'm not in a position to talk about it and neither are you frankly.

You might be needing one of these

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[PolishPummler]

Down down USA

[Suge Green]

Boxing history is American boxing history...at least the majority of the 20th century. Although competitors from all parts of the world have made their respective marks on the sport in the past, and much moreso in present times...To hate American fighters is beyond foolish. That's like being a fan of the martial arts, while hating Asians.

I encourage these ignorant posters to continue in their current manner. It helps let the ESB community know if they may, or may not be worth reasoning with...

[chewy 22]

i dont have any disrespect for those fucking yanks

[Suge Green]

What a load of bs. It´s like you have to love the states because you like fast food :D

Thanks for taking the encouragement in the second part of the post to heart newb.:smoke

[C Money]

I have to admit that I do sometimes favour the "international" fighter, solely on the grounds of him being "international".

I do this, partly because I usually know him better and partly because, like many non-americans - i think - I'm fed up with the American way of interacting with the rest of the world.
In Boxing as in most other aspects of life.

There is a whole world outside America and the feeling I generally have towards Americans is that you guys are oblivious to most anything going on outside of your boarders.

This has very little to do with boxing per se, but it may help to shed some light over the "anti-American" sentiment here, as in other places.

Correct me if my assumptions below are wrong. Let me state first off that I do not agree with any sort of violence - at all - performed on either side.

1. you don't understand that 9/11 is a logical consequence of your foreign policy since ww2

2. you don't understand that Israel as a state, financed by USA is the main reason for the middle east conflict, thus making YOU the main reason for it.

3. you don't understand that invading a country and fighting peeps that are defending their homes is a war that cannot be won. It never has been and history is full of examples of this.

4. you don't have much history yourselves, so history as a subject is of little importance - rendering you unable to correct the mistakes of yore and maiking them again and again.

5. you speak English and that's it - and automatically assume that the rest of us will abandon our mother tongues in order for us to communicate - when in fact our languages are, for most parts, older than yours

6. you have all the power in the world and very little understanding of what to do with it, so you play the policemen of the world. No one likes the police.

7. your nation pollutes more than all the rest of the world combined (!)
and your government won't sign agreements to lower the emissions of green house gasses. It's as if you think that pollution won't hit America as hard as the rest of the world. I don't know why you think this.. other than you are God's chosen people or something like that? Enlighten me..

8. your "constitutional rights" as individuals to persue happines only goes for those who agree with you. If your idea of happiness differs from the US model, you will be slaughtered as "terror cells" when in fact, most peeps just want to be left in peace.

9. you seem to think that all other nations wish you harm, when in fact you could just withdraw your troops and leave people alone.

10. you are omnipotent, but fear the rest of us. I guess you always have, since being evicted from the old countries and beginning the systematic extermination of anything alien.

The list goes on..
This is to say that when dealing with Americans, I for one tend to have all this in the back of my mind - which sometimes, I admit, clouds my judgement of a fighter.
When an American fighter loses to a European, I generally rejoice. Mostly because in my clouded mind, the European fighter has beaten none other than GW Bush and his terror regime (not even elected - and you still claim that you are a democratic nation, licenced to over throw foreign officials, if you thing they are wronfully installed)

I know this is unfair to a boxer who just tries to do his best and it really is something that I am aware of - but, as I said above, the world outside boxing clouds my judgement.

Seen isolated, I agree that Pernell would prolly have Zoo's number, but I would back KT in any discussion.

And JC, who is fighting my fav fighter next, will never be in any trouble against any shape of bhop, prime or no prime.. And Kessler will retire them both.
Why? because Kessler is Danish and so am I:-)
(I hope you realize that I know this is not a valid argument I'm making, but merely an example of the way I sometimes think)

In reality, I see that JC has stuff to trouble Kessler and that x is not the ideal guy to fight if you want certain victory..

It irritates me that Eurofighters are being scolded for not going where the big fights are. Where is the biggest fight of 07?
Cardiff, wales, that's where. Why would either JC or VW want to go to Vegas for chump change to get cheateed by some bought judges like Sturm vs. ODLH, when thay can make lots more by fighting each other in Cardiff?

It's the arrogance and ignorance (funny how those two always go hand in hand, ain't it?), I think, that most non US peeps feel comes from America that have them hoping for the "international" fighter to win.

And for the record...
Football is the most played sport in the world. It's called football, because the nature of the game involves using your feet on the ball, rather than the hands (basketball, volleyball, handball (the real handball, not the silly game against a wall, that you guys think I'm referring to) american football, etc.)

So a small step in the right direction would be to acknowledge this fact and call the sport football and not some silly name that you have made up. Soccer? what is that? (this point goes for the Aussies as well - tho I'm sure they really know better:-) their's is just habbit, rather than arrogance.

So... that said - I hereby promise to make an effort to better my ways.

Increase the peace.


WOW!!! :lol:

Listen my friend, it seems that you do have an American BIAS and from the nature of you're responses. It seems you have little understanding of the average american citizen and paint us all with the same colored brush which is BULLSHIT!! America isnt responsible for the worlds problems and I find rather odd that you sit in judgement as a Dane. Dare I ask, how the USA has shit on you're plate directly??:lol:

As for Israel and the middle east?? THEY HAVE BEEN KILLING EACH OTHER from pretty much when time began and would be doing the same with or without the USA. Unfortunately, the middle east sits on the energy reserves of most of the world and placing the global structure at the feet of many retarded regimes existing over there is simply unaccepatable:good Personally, I'd love nothing more than a viable alternate fuel source so that we could get the hell out of there and let them slaughter each other til their hearts content while their economies crash and burn, and they have only their greed and faith to rely on. Maybe one day, it will happen.

You bring up WW2, funny how most of Europe was buckling under Hitler and turned to the USA to help. THe Us initially tried to stay out but it became clear that action had to be taken with Pearl Harbor as Hitler wouldnt stop until he conquered the entire globe. What happened next is a shining example of the greatness within the US and the indomitable will and spirit with which we defend our freedom and helped many euro countries keep their own ideal's by DISPATCHING the big bad bully. My grandfather who emigrated from Italy(NOT EVICTED) to the USA, drove a tank for General Patton and saw much of the worst of the worst, I'm proud of his service and the American Spirit which helped overthrow a piece of shit like Hitler:good One can contemplate how different things might be were it not for the US.

Personally, I understand that THERE ARE ASSHOLE'S OF EVERY CREED, COLOR, RELIGION, and RACE. It's an unfortunate side of HUMANITY!!

As for Football?? It's the NFL and one of the greatest sports on earth. Soccer will never compare in excitement or appeal in this country but how does that stop you from enjoying you're own football?? I also dont care what you call it, over here we'll call it what we like and sorry it just doesnt motivate Americans the way it does others. There's no crime in that and it doesnt/shouldnt take away anything from you're game.

I hope you hold to you're word on trying to work on you're bias. I like many aspects of various countries and cultures and look forward to continued free expression and enjoyment with them on the topic of BOXING which is another of the world's great past times.

[Vantage_West]

I haven't noticed it too much, but I've never paid much attention to anyone who is just being ignorant, I just read the next post when I realize it. You are right on the money though, where you are from does not mean anything other than where you are from. I'm from Canada, and I'm a fan of fighters who are from Samoa, Haiti, Russia, Japan, and many other places.

Where you are from doesn't matter, its the knowledge (preferably unbiased) that you possess that matters. Bringing someone's nationality into a discussion/arguement, is no better than bringing someone's race into an arguement. There are stupid and smart people everywhere, regardless of nationality.agree totally but some/alot of non-U.S. fighters dont get the publicity they deserve it's the typical american fan that i dont like who will say jeff lacy by ko over calfaggy :tired . being in the northern americs it's more useful but fighters for some reason have to come from all over the world to america why is that:huh there are some amazing stadiums ,talent and fans outside the u.s and it seems more adept to put them in downtown newyork stadium. most of these posters arnt against american fighters or american people or fans it's just the idea that it HAS to be in the u.s ....why as i said before there are better stadiums in other countries there are bigger fans in other countries and there are alot of unprocessed talent in other countries.

also other things that annoy me is the usbc, naba belts seem to be a mini world title if you win that belt you are now at world level.

but wlad virchis ,who i dont really like as a fighter has held the european title for ages and still doesnt get a shot. remember sam peter only got his world credentials after winning a north atlantic title.


it's not world boxing it's more us open boxing non americans are welcome to come and participate.

wow i just lost 2 cents

[goldnarms]

:good:good:good good post, beside the football thing :P
Well, to his defense most Americans i met here in Germany acted similar to what he described. Very ignorant, arrogant and loud. So, there´s nothing to wonder about when Europeans have some bias against your guys.

Yes, having been to europe and seen the conduct of many American's there and it is rather embarassing.

I was in England (Runnymede) and witnessed first hand an American woman arguing with an English man that JFK signed the Magna Carta. But for everyone of her there are 10 (ok 5) of us who do not represent the "Ugly American". We admire and want to learn from your ancient cultures.

We are a very young country. If England as we know it started in 1066 I ask you were was in 1300? Basically the same place as America is right now with regards to religion and other socisal issues. We are only 240 years old and still trying to define ourselves and our role on Earth.

Just as non Americans don't want to be labled with one broad stroke you should also not do that to us Americans.

[Club Fighter]

You need to back up these comments-I havent seen anything remotely racist from the UK posters..if someone says something like ' you will be using your flag to wipe away your tears' etc..its just banter..dont play the race card, there is nothing worse:-(

Dude, I almost jumped outta my seat when I read this comment. How the hell am I playing the race card??? First of all, I don't think you know the difference between race and nationality. Your little example is something nationality based, not race. It's you f'n Europeans CLAIMING that we're playing the race card when nobody even mentions race. You guys are the ones throwing it out there with your "Americans don't consider Calzaghe p4p #1 because he's a white European" comments. I'm just pointing it out. No sooner did I make make my comment did some non-American come along, who admittedly did not read all the posts, and make this comment serving to validate mine (read the bold print) . . .

I haven´t read most of the thread, but let me tell you this:

- Personally I am as pro american as anyone from outside America can be. There are some things I don´t like about the US, like the religious fundamentalism, the greed, the social darwinism or the extreme law and order policy but the many good sides of this country make up for that.

- Nonetheless I only read the ESB-board because the amount of americans is relatively small. I have learned the many americans have a problem if you only doubt that they are the greatest nation under the sun or that their boxers are the greatest ones on this planet.
Even objective dicussions about the latter often lead to stupid insults from american board members. (Not from every american here!)

- So what I want to say is: It´s a little bit hard with you americans. Many of you only care for american fighters (who are considered gods only by yourself.)

- Examples? Jermain Taylor for instanance seems to be the king of the middleweight division although he never tried to unify or fought anybody with a pulse. Fighters like the Klitschkos are "paper camps" of course(?).
I forgot: Taylor beat (or not) an aging champion who beat up welterweights troughout his career.

- Hopkins hinself is p4p Nr. 1 or 2 in some guys books although he did nothing else than fight unknown guys at MW and beat another extremely overrated american in Tarver.
Hopkins always had the frame to fight at heavyweight but he kept himself starving to death in order to fight midgets. But it seems okay for the average american spectator.

- BTW: Hopkins victim Winky Wright is just another example for the american bias. He gets decisevly beaten by an old man but he is still p4p top 5 to most americans. If he was european and white people would call him an exposed and overprotected bum but not p4p top 5.

- P4P: Maywheather only won his fight againt ODLH because this full time promoter without fight experience (who is years past his prime) ran out of gas in the last 2 rounds... but still he´s p4p Nr.1? That can´t be unless you´re a biased american. Some people even have him at Nr. 20 or 30 in an ATG list. Unbelieveable! A guy who only runs!!!

- You guys remember another hype job? Lacy?
In the past I often read of him as a future hall of famer. Need I say more...
Now it seem that noone is able to give Calzaghe credit. Suddenly Lacy is just an overmatched bum.

- After the Lacy debacle some americans still ask questions like: Who´s interrested in Calzaghe-Kessler?
Answer: Not many americans as it seems- but I am always interrested when the two dominant guys of a divison fight. Regardless of nationality.

So please tell me how I'm playing the race card. Exactly what I said happens occured 2 posts under my original post. Like I said before and I'm saying again it's YOU GUYS playing the goddam race card . . . and it's absurd and you need to quit!

[goldnarms]

:good:good:good good post, beside the football thing :P
Well, to his defense most Americans i met here in Germany acted similar to what he described. Very ignorant, arrogant and loud. So, there´s nothing to wonder about when Europeans have some bias against your guys.

Yes, having been to europe and seen the conduct of many American's there and it is rather embarassing.

I was in England (Runnymede) and witnessed first hand an American woman arguing with an English man that JFK signed the Magna Carta. But for everyone of her there are 10 (ok 5) of us who do not represent the "Ugly American". We admire and want to learn from your ancient cultures.

We are a very young country. If England as we know it started in 1066 I ask you were was in 1300? Basically the same place as America is right now with regards to religion and other socisal issues. We are only 240 years old and still trying to define ourselves and our role on Earth.

Just as non Americans don't want to be painted with one broad stroke you should also not do that to us Americans.

[Club Fighter]

Hey Bill Poster, you want to see someone "playing the race card"? Just take a look at this asshole's personal best.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

But yeah, I'm another "hater." You got me Doumbo. I hate Wlad because he's classy, white and European. Those sickening characteristics make me want to strangle that big beautiful man. :roll:

:rofl:rofl:rofl Thom, you're absolutely right. They play the race card, the nationality card, any card they can before they acknowledge reason. It's pathetic.

[Druid]

WOW!!! :lol:

Listen my friend, it seems that you do have an American BIAS and from the nature of you're responses. It seems you have little understanding of the average american citizen and paint us all with the same colored brush which is BULLSHIT!! America isnt responsible for the worlds problems and I find rather odd that you sit in judgement as a Dane. Dare I ask, how the USA has shit on you're plate directly??:lol:

As for Israel and the middle east?? THEY HAVE BEEN KILLING EACH OTHER from pretty much when time began and would be doing the same with or without the USA. Unfortunately, the middle east sits on the energy reserves of most of the world and placing the global structure at the feet of many retarded regimes existing over there is simply unaccepatable:good Personally, I'd love nothing more than a viable alternate fuel source so that we could get the hell out of there and let them slaughter each other til their hearts content while their economies crash and burn, and they have only their greed and faith to rely on. Maybe one day, it will happen.

You bring up WW2, funny how most of Europe was buckling under Hitler and turned to the USA to help. THe Us initially tried to stay out but it became clear that action had to be taken with Pearl Harbor as Hitler wouldnt stop until he conquered the entire globe. What happened next is a shining example of the greatness within the US and the indomitable will and spirit with which we defend our freedom and helped many euro countries keep their own ideal's by DISPATCHING the big bad bully. My grandfather who emigrated from Italy(NOT EVICTED) to the USA, drove a tank for General Patton and saw much of the worst of the worst, I'm proud of his service and the American Spirit which helped overthrow a piece of shit like Hitler:good One can contemplate how different things might be were it not for the US.

Personally, I understand that THERE ARE ASSHOLE'S OF EVERY CREED, COLOR, RELIGION, and RACE. It's an unfortunate side of HUMANITY!!

As for Football?? It's the NFL and one of the greatest sports on earth. Soccer will never compare in excitement or appeal in this country but how does that stop you from enjoying you're own football?? I also dont care what you call it, over here we'll call it what we like and sorry it just doesnt motivate Americans the way it does others. There's no crime in that and it doesnt/shouldnt take away anything from you're game.

I hope you hold to you're word on trying to work on you're bias. I like many aspects of various countries and cultures and look forward to continued free expression and enjoyment with them on the topic of BOXING which is another of the world's great past times.

That is complete rubbish!
The USA joined WW2 on the 7th December 1941, the day Pearl Harbour was attacked!
The US has most definitely thrown fuel on the fire that is the middle east and u could just as easily say that the US has fought wars since it's inception, just this last century you have both ww 1 and 2, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, the cold war, involvement in the over throw of the leaders in Iran and Chile the list go on and on. So, u cannot say that they never stop fighting in the middle east, the US hasn't stopped fighting everywhere. Don't pretend is makes no difference what the US does there, it does, to the people living there and to most of the rest of the residence of the Planet.

[o_money]

WOW!!! :lol:

Listen my friend, it seems that you do have an American BIAS and from the nature of you're responses. It seems you have little understanding of the average american citizen and paint us all with the same colored brush which is BULLSHIT!! America isnt responsible for the worlds problems and I find rather odd that you sit in judgement as a Dane. Dare I ask, how the USA has shit on you're plate directly??:lol:

As for Israel and the middle east?? THEY HAVE BEEN KILLING EACH OTHER from pretty much when time began and would be doing the same with or without the USA. Unfortunately, the middle east sits on the energy reserves of most of the world and placing the global structure at the feet of many retarded regimes existing over there is simply unaccepatable:good Personally, I'd love nothing more than a viable alternate fuel source so that we could get the hell out of there and let them slaughter each other til their hearts content while their economies crash and burn, and they have only their greed and faith to rely on. Maybe one day, it will happen.

You bring up WW2, funny how most of Europe was buckling under Hitler and turned to the USA to help. THe Us initially tried to stay out but it became clear that action had to be taken with Pearl Harbor as Hitler wouldnt stop until he conquered the entire globe. What happened next is a shining example of the greatness within the US and the indomitable will and spirit with which we defend our freedom and helped many euro countries keep their own ideal's by DISPATCHING the big bad bully. My grandfather who emigrated from Italy(NOT EVICTED) to the USA, drove a tank for General Patton and saw much of the worst of the worst, I'm proud of his service and the American Spirit which helped overthrow a piece of shit like Hitler:good One can contemplate how different things might be were it not for the US.

Personally, I understand that THERE ARE ASSHOLE'S OF EVERY CREED, COLOR, RELIGION, and RACE. It's an unfortunate side of HUMANITY!!

As for Football?? It's the NFL and one of the greatest sports on earth. Soccer will never compare in excitement or appeal in this country but how does that stop you from enjoying you're own football?? I also dont care what you call it, over here we'll call it what we like and sorry it just doesnt motivate Americans the way it does others. There's no crime in that and it doesnt/shouldnt take away anything from you're game.

I hope you hold to you're word on trying to work on you're bias. I like many aspects of various countries and cultures and look forward to continued free expression and enjoyment with them on the topic of BOXING which is another of the world's great past times.

dude your grand father drove a tank for Patton!

Thats wicked!

[Smazz20]

dude your grand father drove a tank for Patton!

Thats wicked!

The fuck are you.......his brother??

Who was your grandpops, T Money?:lol:

[o_money]

I was in England (Runnymede) and witnessed first hand an American woman arguing with an English man that JFK signed the Magna Carta.

dude you can't be serious?

No one could posibly be that dumb!

[Toopretty]

I admit, I live here and I dont like the way of thinking. America has a high sidity type attitude towards the rest of the world. When in fact you cant blame the US for the middle east problems b/c the middle east is behind all of it. They dont like each other and as an example the US is too dumb to actually rule the world or try to. They know this. We are hired goons for the world. We are the muscle. Look how the fake nation of Israel uses us as muscle. They get to bomb who they want, when they want b/c of us. We are thugs for hire. You give us money or oil and we whoop ass for you. Simple as that. Another prime example is that the Saudis own like more then 30% of this country through stocks and all other kinds of stuff(we are there bitches). We are in debt to China, who is like the US for the asian nations. But smarter. We claim to be against tyranny and facism and terrorism but did not do shit in africa when the crazy african nations decide up and one day to wipe out a tribe of a million or more people. We are hypocrites and we only respect other super powers like China and the USSR. The cold war took away the USA manhood by doing the impossible..making us vulnerable and just like any other country. Good one by the USSR. We hate cuba for life for doing to us what we ask other countries like Kuwait, Israel, Lebanon to do for us. I mean the world is a fucked up place. But that being said..we are were boxing is, and all great fighters past and present have to come here to get the respect of the world of boxing.

[goldnarms]

dude you can't be serious?

No one could posibly be that dumb!

Yup..i swear. Same trip I heard another woman tell and English gentleman that Stonehenge was "just a bunch of rocks". Its endless...

[Smazz20]

I admit, I live here and I dont like the way of thinking. America has a high sidity type attitude towards the rest of the world. When in fact you cant blame the US for the middle east problems b/c the middle east is behind all of it. They dont like each other and as an example the US is too dumb to actually rule the world or try to. They know this. We are hired goons for the world. We are the muscle. Look how the fake nation of Israel uses us as muscle. They get to bomb who they want, when they want b/c of us. We are thugs for hire. You give us money or oil and we whoop ass for you. Simple as that. Another prime example is that the Saudis own like more then 30% of this country through stocks and all other kinds of stuff(we are there bitches). We are in debt to China, who is like the US for the asian nations. But smarter. We claim to be against tyranny and facism and terrorism but did not do shit in africa when the crazy african nations decide up and one day to wipe out a tribe of a million or more people. We are hypocrites and we only respect other super powers like China and the USSR. The cold war took away the USA manhood by doing the impossible..making us vulnerable and just like any other country. Good one by the USSR. We hate cuba for life for doing to us what we ask other countries like Kuwait, Israel, Lebanon to do for us. I mean the world is a fucked up place. But that being said..we are were boxing is, and all great fighters past and present have to come here to get the respect of the world of boxing.


But, this is the age of the [Only registered and activated users can see links] You can easily watch a re run of Calzaghe-Kessler or Hatton-Mayweather. You can buy any DVD of any fight you wish. You can watch clips of fights on You Tube. No longer do we need to take for granted the words of writers who could be blatantly nuthuggers and/or haters of certain fighters. We can judge for ourselves.

So why should a mega fight like Calzaghe Kessler take place in the U.S when it would make more money in Europe? Same goes for Wlad. He's the no.1 heavy in the world. Why should he fight in the states when he earns more money in Germany fighting the same opponents he'd fight in the U.S?

[Smazz20]

Yup..i swear. Same trip I heard another woman tell and English gentleman that Stonehenge was "just a bunch of rocks". Its endless...

My mate used to work in Newgrange in Ireland. He once overheard an American shouting down her phone to somebody about how she just got a tour of a place 300 years old!

It's 5,000 years old. Older than the pyramids and Stonehenge!!

[C Money]

That is complete rubbish!
The USA joined WW2 on the 7th December 1941, the day Pearl Harbour was attacked!
The US has most definitely thrown fuel on the fire that is the middle east and u could just as easily say that the US has fought wars since it's inception, just this last century you have both ww 1 and 2, Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, the cold war, involvement in the over throw of the leaders in Iran and Chile the list go on and on. So, u cannot say that they never stop fighting in the middle east, the US hasn't stopped fighting everywhere. Don't pretend is makes no difference what the US does there, it does, to the people living there and to most of the rest of the residence of the Planet.

I said it took action with pearl harbour as it became clear that Hitle would pursue global domination, so whats youre point??

Thrown fuel on the fire??? A fire that raged long before the Us involvement and would burn undoubtedly if we werent there. Ignoring the energy issues is ridiculous and what a glorious day it would be if the worlds demand for oil ceased or is dramatically reduced:good Then the middle east could freely collapse on itself and who would they blame?? The US and the rest of the world and anyone but themselves no doubt.


Wars and fighting is human nature and will likely never stop, yet the United states isn't the world oppressor and isnt the root cause for violence in the middle east. I'd love to see us out of there completely and watch what will happen we the Us exits, think the violence and bloodshed will stop???:lol: :lol: :lol:

[o_money]

The fuck are you.......his brother??

Who was your grandpops, T Money?:lol:

hahaha

that good

But seriously (and for the last time) I'm canadian, I don't like american football, i am a soccer nut (sorry I call it soccer), we are not related and he is not my alias (or vice versa).

And if you really must know my grandfather fought in italy as well.

[Toopretty]

I respect Calzaghe and damned for sure like Kessler b/c he is a very smart fighter. They dont need to come here to prove they are good-great fighters. But they need to come here to put that stamp on it. That USA grade seal of approval. The US is the MECCA of boxing. Period. I mean every great fighter of any era fought here. The ones that did not are not as well remembered and respected. Like when I seen footage of Nikolawhatever Locche. I was like damn this guy was Pernell/Floyd before them. I mean the guy literally was stiff as a brick and just moved his head and made the other guy look like a complete retard. Best defensive fighter I have ever seen with little effort. It is what it is. For the STAMP you have to come here. Thats like being the best golfer and not participating in whatever the big golf thing is. Or being the best soccer player and playing indoor arena soccer.

[Smazz20]

hahaha

that good

But seriously (and for the last time) I'm canadian, I don't like american football, i am a soccer nut (sorry I call it soccer), we are not related and he is not my alias (or vice versa).

And if you really must know my grandfather fought in italy as well.

all good:D Some Euros get all defensive over calling it soccer. It's all the same to me.

[Druid]

I said it took action with pearl harbour as it became clear that Hitle would pursue global domination, so whats youre point??

Thrown fuel on the fire??? A fire that raged long before the Us involvement and would burn undoubtedly if we werent there. Ignoring the energy issues is ridiculous and what a glorious day it would be if the worlds demand for oil ceased or is dramatically reduced:good Then the middle east could freely collapse on itself and who would they blame?? The US and the rest of the world and anyone but themselves no doubt.


Wars and fighting is human nature and will likely never stop, yet the United states isn't the world oppressor and isnt the root cause for violence in the middle east. I'd love to see us out of there completely and watch what will happen we the Us exits, think the violence and bloodshed will stop???:lol: :lol: :lol:

That eduction has already happened for a lot of the rest of the world, Brazil 100% independent of imported fuel for cars. Japan creates 25% of it fuel needs from renewable energy sources.

The US entered WW2 ONLY when Peral harbour was attacked and not because of Hitler as a threat, they had no choice they were attacked by an Axis power. The Battle of Britain was what broke the Luftwaffe's back and that took place between the10th July and 31st October 1940. It was called a WORLD war because it involved more than one country and more than one front, it required all of the countries to fight and win that war, it was very unlikely that any one country could have prevailed against Germany.

By your logic on the middle east, a foreigner can go to the US and shoot someone because you guys are already doing so and have done so for years, that makes no sense either.

[AllyT]

I am a bit confused. Why is it a problem if my auntie’s American?

[C Money]

The fuck are you.......his brother??

Who was your grandpops, T Money?:lol:

Who the fuck are you?? Just another idiot?? Ok good for you. I was only making a point about WW2 as the part of the strength of our nations heritage as a melting pot and the without the United States the world might be quite a different place had Hitler succeeded. I'm proud of my grandfather's service, the service of many other US soldiers, and the role in which our nation played in ridding the planet of a ambitious dictator like Hitler.

You dont have to like, admire, or respect it or agree with my opinions. Yet, the facts are that many, many, many great men and US soldiers laid their lives on the line over and over and played a large role in helping the world be free to carry on in their own manner.

[Smazz20]

Who the fuck are you?? Just another idiot?? Ok good for you. I was only making a point about WW2 as the part of the strength of our nations heritage as a melting pot and the without the United States the world might be quite a different place had Hitler succeeded. I'm proud of my grandfather's service, the service of many other US soldiers, and the role in which our nation played in ridding the planet of a ambitious dictator like Hitler.

You dont have to like, admire, or respect it or agree with my opinions. Yet, the facts are that many, many, many great men and US soldiers laid their lives on the line over and over and played a large role in helping the world be free to carry on in their own manner.


oooooookkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaayyyyyyy........no need to take everything so serious. I was having a laugh at your names being so similar. I couldn't care less about you, him, your grandad, patton, ww1-2, vietnam or any other war. I will care when it directly affects me.

It's only an internet forum. why so mad:huh

[o_money]

ok people if you want to understand the reasons that countries act in the way they do or would like to understand war in the context of human nature read Gwyn Dyer's "War" and Carrol Quigley's "the evolution of civilizations". Both are board looks at the over arching forces and patterns that govern societies, both start from prehistory and move to present day and niether is focused on the states. I think if some of you had a better understanding of what the sociological and physical forces that drive super powers are (or just knew more about how the world works) then you wouldn't be so quick to hate.

sorry I know I just recommended a couple of sociology books on a boxing forum but given the debate I though it would be a propriate.

[C Money]

That eduction has already happened for a lot of the rest of the world, Brazil 100% independent of imported fuel for cars. Japan creates 25% of it fuel needs from renewable energy sources.

The US entered WW2 ONLY when Peral harbour was attacked and not because of Hitler as a threat, they had no choice they were attacked by an Axis power. The Battle of Britain was what broke the Luftwaffe's back and that took place between the10th July and 31st October 1940. It was called a WORLD war because it involved more than one country and more than one front, it required all of the countries to fight and win that war, it was very unlikely that any one country could have prevailed against Germany.

By your logic on the middle east, a foreigner can go to the US and shoot someone because you guys are already doing so and have done so for years, that makes no sense either.


It seems you are attempting to spin you're own web with my statements/perspective.

When Japan, as part of Hitlers alliance, attacked the US, what was that?? A threat:think :think :think Not to mention dealing with one continent under hitler was gonna be what?? A picnic?? Think he would have stopped there??:lol: STFU! With you're spin.

Dont act as if the world has already solved it's enrgy issues either:good It's just beginning and the transition will take time.

I dont support the US being over there but convienient that you ignore there terrorist support and netwroks that exits there. Again, stick you're assumptions and spin, up the wazoo.

[Ol' Blue]

I was only making a point about WW2 as the part of the strength of our nations heritage as a melting pot and the without the United States the world might be quite a different place had Hitler succeeded. I'm proud of my grandfather's service, the service of many other US soldiers, and the role in which our nation played in ridding the planet of a ambitious dictator like Hitler.

You dont have to like, admire, or respect it or agree with my opinions. Yet, the facts are that many, many, many great men and US soldiers laid their lives on the line over and over and played a large role in helping the world be free to carry on in their own manner.

We should be proud of what we did in WW2, (even though we resisted any contribution when Churchill himself was SCREAMING for help), but even I can see how offensive it is when idiot Americans who have no idea of history start screaming about how we won the war and saved the world.

Another poster had it right, it was the Battle of Britain which crippled the Nazi war machine. The heaviest lifting in the European war was done by the English and the Russkies. But the problem is that because of our education system, millions of Americans blindly assume that we "won" the war, whereas in truth we were a part of the winning coalition, and that coalition didn't even so much win, as Hitler lost. It was only because of a couple of huge mistakes in his leadership that Europe could even stand up to Hitler. Without them, everybody would have been fucked. Throughout 1940, Churchill himself had no idea how it was possible to win the war.

[C Money]

oooooookkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaayyyyyyy........no need to take everything so serious. I was having a laugh at your names being so similar. I couldn't care less about you, him, your grandad, patton, ww1-2, vietnam or any other war. I will care when it directly affects me.

It's only an internet forum. why so mad:huh

Be an internet forum or in person disrespect is disrespect and it sure felt like an unjustified stab on you're behalf.:yep

I prefer to keep debate civil but will fight fire with fire when the insults or attacks start flying:good

Would hope that we can move on.

[Smazz20]

Be an internet forum or in person disrespect is disrespect and it sure felt like an unjustified stab on you're behalf.:yep

I prefer to keep debate civil but will fight fire with fire when the insults or attacks start flying:good

Would hope that we can move on.

My apologies. We most certainly can:good

[C Money]

We should be proud of what we did in WW2, (even though we resisted any contribution when Churchill himself was SCREAMING for help), but even I can see how offensive it is when idiot Americans who have no idea of history start screaming about how we won the war and saved the world.

Another poster had it right, it was the Battle of Britain which crippled the Nazi war machine. The heaviest lifting in the European war was done by the English and the Russkies. But the problem is that because of our education system, millions of Americans blindly assume that we "won" the war, whereas in truth we were a part of the winning coalition, and that coalition didn't even so much win, as Hitler lost. It was only because of a couple of huge mistakes in his leadership that Europe could even stand up to Hitler. Without them, everybody would have been fucked. Throughout 1940, Churchill himself had no idea how it was possible to win the war.


It wasnt the US alone, NO DOUBT, but the coalition certainly did better when the Us got involved. Many, many, many US solidiers gave their lives and did QUITE A LOT IN CONTRIBUTION and did plenty of heavy lifting. Why was Churchill screaming for help, because they had everything under control??:lol: :lol: The US made a huge impact and the war may have damn well gone the other way without it.
It seems much more idiotic to believe otherwise.

[C Money]

My apologies. We most certainly can:good

Done:good My apologies as well, i do have a small temper, sometimes:lol:

[Proud Warrior]

Okay, than explain to me why so many of your fellow Americans call European fighters as bums or unproven or things like that just because they aren´t fighting in the states?Very good post!

[o_money]

I don't think that american's believe that they alone won the war. I think that they feel pissed off at all the shit they take from the very people who they fought to protect and feel the need to remind them of it. And to suggest that
Germany would have been defeated without them is illogical (kind of like backin Tzu over Sweet pea just because he's an american is ilogical). And it just doesn't add up. I know being a Canadian that few things in this world piss me off more then when some French president gives his support to a Quebec sepratist given howmany CANADIANS are burried on their soil. Given that this is how I feel over something that happens soo rarely I can imagine that some americans must want to shout "hey you ungreatful fucks, how about you try cutting us a break".


Oh and another thing had the us never joined the war the only way that Germany would have been defeated would have been if Russia conquered Europe and that would have been swapping one dictatorship for another. Try and remember that when your down playing the American contribution.

[Druid]

It seems you are attempting to spin you're own web with my statements/perspective.

When Japan, as part of Hitlers alliance, attacked the US, what was that?? A threat:think :think :think Not to mention dealing with one continent under hitler was gonna be what?? A picnic?? Think he would have stopped there??:lol: STFU! With you're spin.

Dont act as if the world has already solved it's enrgy issues either:good It's just beginning and the transition will take time.

I dont support the US being over there but convienient that you ignore there terrorist support and netwroks that exits there. Again, stick you're assumptions and spin, up the wazoo.


No spin.
Apparently u have trouble handling the truth, so much so you resort to personal attacks. You seem to spend all of your time defending the indefensible and trying to come up with a retort and ignore the facts.
Remember, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but everyone is not entitled to their own facts!

[MSTR]

I agree that at times people do go an anit US rant that is unwarranted. But at the same time guys like Calzaghe and Hatton are criticized to a much greater degree then I feel they would be if they were US fighters. However, it is natural to have bias towards fighters from your own country as all people on this board do almost without exception. I think that the russians,Mexicans, pinoys, aussies and danish people on the boards are just as guilty of doing the same thing, only in some cases to a greater degree. At the end of the day people just need to put it aside and get on with it. Pretending to be a perfect and completely objective poster as some guys do is rubbish, as everyone has their own bias, just to varying degrees.

[C Money]

No spin.
Apparently u have trouble handling the truth, so much so you resort to personal attacks. You seem to spend all of your time defending the indefensible and trying to come up with a retort and ignore the facts.
Remember, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but everyone is not entitled to their own facts!

:lol: You are now entering FANTASY LAND.

I didnt create or change facts, POST EM if you got em:good

Get off you're high and invisible horse:yep

You are entitled to you'r opinions but not entitled TO MAKE UP YOU"RE OWN SHITE EITHER!!!

[marauder1999]

There will always be american haters. Its the best country to live in and thats why its hated so much so the athletes get it too. I dont take offense though--its just the world we live in.

[KO Boxing]

:scaredas:

This is the exact time of shit that I hate on this board! :fire

America's the best because of so and so... Oh no, Europe is the best because of so and so... Oh no, White people are superior... Oh no, black people are superior...

We're not here to talk politics, boys! We're here to talk boxing!

[KO Boxing]

There will always be american haters. Its the best country to live in and thats why its hated so much so the athletes get it too. I dont take offense though--its just the world we live in.
Most powerful and rich, yes. Certainly.

Best country to actually LIVE in? HELL NO!

No matter the state, or the town, I feel like I'm gonna get mugged walking down the street!

[MSTR]

Most powerful and rich, yes. Certainly.

Best country to actually LIVE in? HELL NO!

No matter the state, or the town, I feel like I'm gonna get mugged walking down the street!
Agreed. I love living in Australia and I wouldn't change it for the world. The people, the culture, the city, the economy everything over here to me is great. Obviously i am biased, and I am not saying Australia is the best, but I wouldn't say America is the best country to live in either. I have heard heaps of Yanks over here through my job say how Australia is just so much more relaxed and much friendlier. How they feel much safer as well. Its all just a matter of perspective. No one country is the best.

[kg0208]

Most powerful and rich, yes. Certainly.

Best country to actually LIVE in? HELL NO!

No matter the state, or the town, I feel like I'm gonna get mugged walking down the street!

There are certainly advantages and disadvantages. Yes, the crime here can be fantastic and crazy, but there are of course other things you will probably find more in abundance in the US than anywhere else, and in a positive way.

It has it's good and bad points, I assume, like all other countries (though I admit to never being to Europe, just the Carribean and South America)

[kg0208]

Calzaghe ko1 Prime Jones:D


Only messing. Your actually, imo, one of the best posters on here and I admire the way you try to keep an objective view at all times.

My whole problem with any bias, be it American or anti-American is that people get critiscised for WHERE they fight instead of WHO they fight. Why should it matter if anyone fights at home their entire career. Afterall, there is such a thing as DVD'S or T.V or the interent. You get to see whatever fighter you wish to see. Does Hatton beating Castillo in LV garner him more credit than beating him in U.K? Does Hopkins beating Eastman in America get him less credit than beating him in England? Or be it an Asian fighter or South American or whomever. It's all about the quality of opposition, not quality of venue.

I think where you run into the venue situation is this.

If you have 10 fighters. All of them world class and 10 different nationalites, all fighting from 140-147. Only a couple are going to make more money fighting in their home countries than in the US. Simply because of economics. Some European fighters make more in their home countries, but that is not the case around the world.

So, of those 10 fighters, 7 come to the US because they can make more money here. 3 stay home because they can make more money fighting at home. The issue then becomes that the 3, who are all different nationalities mind you, are not fighting each other because they make more money at home....they are also not fighting the other 7 for the same reason. However, those 7 in the US are fighting each other to some extent.

This is generally what happens and why people will say that fighters often will need to come here. Not because they are American fighters, not cuz of the venues, but because the majority of the best fighters come here for the money, making the competition stiffer. This is not ALWAYS the case. But it is often enough that you get that cliche of "Fight in the states"

[nickthegreek]

You can't moderate the quality of someone's posts. If someone thinks all US fighters are hype, or that all European fighters are bums because they don't fight in the US, then that's what they think.

Considering the only thing remotely close to a screening process here is the question "are you 13 years of age or over?" it's little surprise that there's a hefty portion of morons around.

Thats exactly how it is on here with at least 50% of the american posters on this site.

They think there fighters are the best and until you have beaten an american fighter then you ain't worth shit.

Just look at the slagging Hatton, Calzaghe, Enzo Mac and even David Haye get on here from time to time.

Im sorry (to the thread starter) but you are talking bollocks im afraid, if anything its the other way round.

[grayggr]

I'm not Anti-American

I'm Uncle-Sam

Seriously though, I being British, do see alot of general (outside of boxing) derision of the US, mainly due to foreign policy, sometime due to over zealous patriotism and a perceived 'over the top' culture.

I have been to the States on many occasions and found it to be a thoroughly likeable place, with thoroughly likeable people.

Certainly in some British Media quarters everyone in the US is tarred with the same brush.

I think the issue is that some posters on here are anti-something, whether British, American, Euro, Eastern Euro, Oz, Asia. Some people on here also play the race/national card too quickly, it's because he's white/black/hispanic..whatever.

I respect the boxer, the action they bring, the humility outside of the ring, the persn as a human being. I dont care for colour, creed, nationality.

Lets just learn how to get along!!!

[Druid]

There will always be american haters. Its the best country to live in and thats why its hated so much so the athletes get it too. I dont take offense though--its just the world we live in.

This is the type of post that incites threads like this. I have lived in Europe, Australia and currently reside in the US. It is very difficult to make any argument that the US is the best country (no universal health care, serious racism issues, highest percentage of it's population in Prison, unnecessary wars, GW Bush, freedoms are very restricted here...the list goes on and on) all countries have good points and negatives and that statement is like saying rice is the best food in the world. The peopel who generally make statements like this have not travelled much.

I judge fighters on their abilities and to a certain extent their personalities, with that said I don't find PBFM rediculous v's Hatton, Hatton is more beloved for sure, but PBFM work ethic is second to none , he is a product of his upbringing, look at his Dad and uncle and u can see why Floyd is like he is, not something one can judge about any more so than a persons religious convictions.

[PH|LLA]

non american fighters are seriously underrated by Americans, and American fighters overrated

For example, Travis Simms (an American) beat Jose Antonio Rivera and people started claiming he was a really elite fighter and really good... Alot of people, mostly americans, said he would probably beat anyone in the division.

Then Alcine beats him in the US, and he gets no props, all of a sudden Simms was never that good..

Double standards by a majority of Americans lead to all Americans being doubted.

[marting]

I've seen American journeyman fighters called garbage by some posters and then when the same journeyman is scheduled to fight a Euro he is suddenly a dangerous and formidable opponent. I do see the hypocrisy but I don't want to see them silenced because they're sometimes a good source of info on Euro boxers.

I've just learned to see through their bullshit.

That said there are couple of anti-US posters on this site that I'd love to talk face to face to.

[Lacyace]

I don't notice any sentiment one way or the other. If you take a look at Mayweather, I find most of his supporters to be biased less to their nationality, and more to their idiocy at idolising a patently ridiculous man, who displays his insecurities on his sleeve as clearly as his "bling". they defend him because they wish they had the money and life that he does. it doesn't seem to bother them that he actually seems really unhappy a lot of the time.

Personally and not speaking for everybody, I like Floyd Mayweather Jr. because he's a skilled boxer. That's it. I don't give a damn about what he does in his personal life or his attitude. Why would I care about his personality? I'm not trying to date him. I just appreciate what he brings to the ring and that's it.

[kg0208]

non american fighters are seriously underrated by Americans, and American fighters overrated

For example, Travis Simms (an American) beat Jose Antonio Rivera and people started claiming he was a really elite fighter and really good... Alot of people, mostly americans, said he would probably beat anyone in the division.

Then Alcine beats him in the US, and he gets no props, all of a sudden Simms was never that good..

Double standards by a majority of Americans lead to all Americans being doubted.
I think sometimes you hear one guy say something, then you say "American's said". I don't recall more than a few posters thinking Simms was that good. Only ever saw one thread where someone called him elite. I never even rated Simms. I never thought he was that great a fighter. A good fighter? Yes...and Alcine should get credit for the win. But I don't think Sims beats DLH even at this stage...I don't think he even beats Spinks.

[cardstars]

Personally and not speaking for everybody, I like Floyd Mayweather Jr. because he's a skilled boxer. That's it. I don't give a damn about what he does in his personal life or his attitude. Why would I care about his personality? I'm not trying to date him. I just appreciate what he brings to the ring and that's it.

AMEN. I hate the guy personally,,,,but hes a very unique boxer and I like watching him

[C Money]

.

This isn't my post, but I wanted to answer some of your points. America. Not all American's are guilty of the muppetry of which many of your public figures and politicians seem to exhibit. America IS responsible for the current state of affairs. They have, over the last 60 years, consistently undermimed and overthrown democratically elected institutions for financial benefit.

Ahhh. yes!! The old USA is the scurge of the world responsible for all the bad ehh?? That about sums up the generalizations which you blindly throw in that paragraph. I say, others should learn to accept responsibility for their OWN ACTIONS:good


As such, this force has led to those in the Have-Not section of the world resenting the US for it's callousness. The self-pity demonstrated by the US after 9/11 was horrifyingly self-serving. as if 3,000 US citizens is somehow worth more than yhe millions the US has been responsible for killing and leaving in poverty.

Self pity??? Self -pity???.......:finger You have some balls to claim some unspecified atrocities on one hand and accuse us of Self pity with the other!!!! You attack the United States homeland and YOU WILL FUCKING PAY!!! I dont support the political scene and culture that has corrupted and twisted this war, yet FUCK Al-Quida and any and all networks that work with and support them. They dont stop at the US, they'll attack any nation that isnt down with THEIR RADICAL ISLAMIC IDEALS.

Yes, they have been fighting since time immemorial (much like... every country. Can't think of any that are significantly peaceful). however, Israel illegally occupy the land that Palestine was founded on and have pushed the Palestinians into an almost Holocaust-style repression and near genocide. The US has backed them for the sake of oil. The reason the US needs to control the oil isn't, as is popularly opined, for the good of the citizenry, it is because oil is, usually, sold in US $. if the US lost control of the major oil sources, which may happen without a heavilly armed and indebted force such as Israel behind them, the US economy could easily collapse.

The middle east is nothing more than a total fucking mess and has been fucked since it began. If it werent for the US, the various sides would tear Israel to pieces and slaughter the jews. Is that right?? Like I said the best thing the USA can do is start eliminating its dependence on oil and let the middle east tear itself apart and commit far greater atrocities than anything the US has done directly there. Of course?? They'll still blame everyone but themselves. It's absolutley laughable to compare what takes place there with other countries, except maybe some in Africa which also have long histiories of violence, atrocity, and civil unrest.

It's accepted that the US did a great service by entering WW2, but it's to say that Europe was "buckling" is a bit disingenous. Hitler was an appalling general and following his foolish decision to attack Russia during the winter, he was running out of troops and resources. His political base had cracked and his allies were rapidly deserting him.

Pearl Harbour left the US with a simple choice, especially if you consider the rumour that the gov't knew it was coming: 1) stay out, which would have marked the US as a target. 2) attack, and stake a claim to be the new imperial rulers of the world. Until this point, the US had stayed away from most other countries, refusing involvement in WW1 for example. But the raised stakes and the realisation they could control the world's resources to their own needs was too tempting. They needed an excuse to enter the war (having refused at the beginning) and promptly got it.

Do my eyes decieve me or did you just accuse the US of enetering WW2 for control of the worlds resources??? :lol: :lol: :plzdie One side of you're face say's "its a great service" the other side says it was for power and political gain:-( :-(
Again, attack the US directly?? We get invloved and the attackers arent likely to end up on the WINNING END:yep :yep :yep

NFL is an atrocious sport. It has NONE of the history of football or the cross-national importance. Sure the US gets excited over the superbowl, but the WORLD gets excited over the World Cup.

Good for the "WORLD". I dont give a fuck!!! The NFL is a far better sport, in the majority of opinions in the USA and that wont change. I dont have any disrespect for those that enjoy Soccer, to each his OWN. My version of the WORLD SPORT??? Is BOXING :good

[Suge Green]

And that´s the problem of most of you Americans. You don´t give a fuck about anybody but yourself.

Are you saying we only care about our individual self, or our fellow Americans as well in your statement.

[kg0208]

And that´s the problem of most of you Americans. You don´t give a fuck about anybody but yourself.

And thats the problem with what you just said, you generalize too damn much.

I doubt you know enough Americans to make that statement.

[kg0208]

And that´s the problem of most of you Americans. You don´t give a fuck about anybody but yourself.

Not to mention, you took for that post COMPLETELY out of context.

All he was saying is that as Americans, we are not required to care that the rest of the world loves Futbol. Here in the States, we love American Football....and we think the NFL is better than any sport in the world (except maybe it's collegiate equivalant). He certainly wasn't saying anything about caring about the other countries well being or anything like that. On the contrary, he was responding in kind to someone saying the same thing he said in reverse. The world doesn't like the NFL, and it's ok to say that....but not ok for us as Americans to defends a sport and league we invented? BS....

[C Money]

And that´s the problem of most of you Americans. You don´t give a fuck about anybody but yourself.


How the fuck does loving the NFL over Soccer make me a scurge??:lol:
When i said I dont give a fuck, it meant I dont feel the NEED to hAVE THE WORLD FEEL DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY WOULD LIKE TOO!!!

You love Soccer?/ Good for you, IMO, you have the right TO LOVE WHAT YOU CHOOSE and opinions shouldnt be forced on you or I.

If you pay attention, you'll notice that I welcome the international community and have some good and interesting debate with many. Yet, when idiots attack me or other US citizens with generalizations, accusations, and ignorant opinions?? I'll call it like I C it:good

[kg0208]

Well, that´s why i wrote most not all. It was the case with all Americans i met that doesn´t mean all americans think so but it means there have to many when all i met, and i met not only 2 or 3 ;) , were like that. I also liked the most of them, they were good people and we had/have lots of fun but they were/are to "america-centric".
Unless you have met a couple hundred personally, you are not qualified to say MOST Americans.

And as I just said, you took his post completely out of context. I somehow doubt you are qualified to discuss most Americans anymore than I am qualified to discuss most Germans, Italians, Chinese, etc.

[C Money]

Not to mention, you took for that post COMPLETELY out of context.

All he was saying is that as Americans, we are not required to care that the rest of the world loves Futbol. Here in the States, we love American Football....and we think the NFL is better than any sport in the world (except maybe it's collegiate equivalant). He certainly wasn't saying anything about caring about the other countries well being or anything like that. On the contrary, he was responding in kind to someone saying the same thing he said in reverse. The world doesn't like the NFL, and it's ok to say that....but not ok for us as Americans to defends a sport and league we invented? BS....

Thank you for noticing and pointing that out:good

[kg0208]

Thank you for noticing and pointing that out:good

:good

[kg0208]

Hey if you like the NFL that´s good for you, i think it´s boring with too many breaks. But that´s just me. I know some guys here who play it and are fans of it. It isn´t that the world don´t care about it, it just isn´t big.
American Football is as much part of your identity as Football is for the most European, South American and African states. Sure, you can defend it.

But it think you know why i picked only that short part of his post. Not because it has anything to do with football but because for me it transcended the thoughts/feelings of most Americans towards the rest of the world - or at least that´s how i experienced it.

No, I don't know why you picked that part of his post.

I don't think you can generalize how this country feels about the rest of the world. On top of this, are you telling me that England cares a whole lot about what France thinks? South Africa about Brazil?

I think it's just easy to pick on the US.

[kg0208]

Sure, not in logical, statistical manner but the most time humans don´t act logical but emotional. I mean you´re right, i shouldn´t do it but humans judge things how they experienced them. I´m no exception.

Well I am generally logical, so I don't completely get where you're coming from. I judge my experiences as individual experiences that reflect on the people involved. And only the way the people reacted in that situation. Of course we all make mistakes so I don't always gather correctly. But still, that was huge generalization.

[C Money]

Hey if you like the NFL that´s good for you, i think it´s boring with too many breaks. But that´s just me. I know some guys here who play it and are fans of it. It isn´t that the world don´t care about it, it just isn´t big.
American Football is as much part of your identity as Football is for the most European, South American and African states. Sure, you can defend it.

But it think you know why i picked only that short part of his post. Not because it has anything to do with football but because for me it transcended the thoughts/feelings of most Americans towards the rest of the world - or at least that´s how i experienced it.

So you take my post out of context and then IGNORE the response/explantion??


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Fair and balanced???:nono :nono :nono


More like opinionated and agenda pushing:yep :yep

[C Money]

Hm, i don´t think you got what i meant. It isn´t about how a country feels about another, it´s about how you think about your own and how you express it towards non-Americans.
Like i wrote in a post in this thread before, the Americans who come here act ignorant, arrogant and loud. They are a shame for your country. They act like they would be superior to us because they are from the states.
And not only the normal Americans who come here as tourist or work, these guys give up there behaviour pretty fast, but your politicians act the same way. I don´t know if most Americans are like that but i know that nearly every American i met personally and nearly every American who is acting in the public act like that.
Should i have no oppinion about the peope of the USA? Well, that don´t work, humand can´t have no oppinion. So i base my oppinion on what i experienced.
That don´t mean i don´t like Americans. I like them, when you know them a bit better most of them are good people. But i can´t stand that behaviour.



Yeah, it is because your fellow citiziens are the only ones who act that way.


ALl you've shown is that YOU DONT UNDERSTAND OUR BEHAVIOUR.

I'm all for equality between nations and people, you took my statement out of context and then attempt to USE it as an example of BAD AMERICAN BEHAVIOUR:lol: :lol: Well, in that case?? Allow me to give you some..:finger :finger :finger


I'm glad that not all citizens of all other countries are as BLIND, CONDESCENDING, IGNORANT, AND AGENDA PUSHING AS YOU:good You push a misunderstood opinion as factual indication of you're own bias, CALSSIC!!!!!!!!!

[Druid]

ALl you've shown is that YOU DONT UNDERSTAND OUR BEHAVIOUR.

I'm all for equality between nations and people, you took my statement out of context and then attempt to USE it as an example of BAD AMERICAN BEHAVIOUR:lol: :lol: Well, in that case?? Allow me to give you some..:finger :finger :finger


I'm glad that not all citizens of all other countries are as BLIND, CONDESCENDING, IGNORANT, AND AGENDA PUSHING AS YOU:good You push a misunderstood opinion as factual indication of you're own bias, CALSSIC!!!!!!!!!

I live in the USA, I know hundreds of Americans and he does make some good points.
Perhaps if u stopped defending and started listening a little more u might understand what is being typed to you.
As I said in a previous post to you, just because you want it to be so doesn't make it so. I stopped responding to you because you were not making any sense. Now I am just adding some weight to the other posters comments as he was being called unqualified to make such opinions based on limited experience (not sure how that could honestly be asserted from your vantage point). Mine is not limted.

[kg0208]

Hm, i don´t think you got what i meant. It isn´t about how a country feels about another, it´s about how you think about your own and how you express it towards non-Americans.
Like i wrote in a post in this thread before, the Americans who come here act ignorant, arrogant and loud. They are a shame for your country. They act like they would be superior to us because they are from the states.
And not only the normal Americans who come here as tourist or work, these guys give up there behaviour pretty fast, but your politicians act the same way. I don´t know if most Americans are like that but i know that nearly every American i met personally and nearly every American who is acting in the public act like that.
Should i have no oppinion about the peope of the USA? Well, that don´t work, humand can´t have no oppinion. So i base my oppinion on what i experienced.
That don´t mean i don´t like Americans. I like them, when you know them a bit better most of them are good people. But i can´t stand that behaviour.



Yeah, it is because your fellow citiziens are the only ones who act that way.

No, its because we act differently than you. It is not arrogance often, just our way of relating to each other and the way things work over here.

Do you realize how different foreigners act in our country? Often bringing their own views and beliefs here when they visit or stay?

It is easy to pick on the US because we are big target. That's a simple fact of this world at this particular time. Yes....I am saying you should not have an opinion of American people. You should have opinions of the people you have met or encountered. If they happen to be American...ok then. But their being American is only going to tell you so much about them, especially if you don't know much about American culture. I often meet people from Europe who visit here who are totally suprised at our casualness and the way we address each other....often to the degree that they come off arrogant, at least by our standards. There is a cultural difference.

[Farmboxer]

Thanks to Gen Butler for not allowing Prescott Bush, & Pals to create a coup back in 1933-34! However, Bush, the retarded idiot, is trying to create another coup in 2007!

v

[C Money]

How can such behaviour understood wrong?


I didn´t take you statement to use it as an example of bad american behaviour. I took it because it expressed what i experienced most Americans think. Good for you when you aren´t like that :good
But you could use some education in beeing respectful.


Agenda pushing for sure. I want to show some of you Americans, the ones who act like i described above, how your behaviour is experienced by many if not most non-Americans. The rest you wrote here is more or less bs but if it´s your oppinion.


Sure, i´m biased. I would never deny it. Read what i wrote and you know why. But i didn´t take your oppinon as an indication of anything. I took it because it expressed what to me it seems most Americans feel/think about others.

Again, I didn´t use it against you and i didn´t use as an indication for anything. I hope you understand it know.


I find you DELSUIONAL and intent on convincing Americans that they're behaviour is BAD because IDIOTS LIKE YOU find it offensive. You dont understand it, misconstrue it, and then try to use it as proof of you're opinion.:lol: :lol:

Absolutely PATHETIC!!! Again, I'm glad that not all international people are so quick and narrow minded in judgement. Is American culture diffrent from what you know?? OBVIOUSLY IT IS!!!!! To insist upon you're righteousness in the face of you're OWN IGNORANCE??? PRICELESS!!!!!

Its truly, truly, undignified and ignorant behaviour. I say, I dont give a fuck if you like the NFL, and I'm suddenly??? I'm the BIG BAD, RED, WHITE, AND BLUE MONSTER??:rofl :rofl :rofl You might instead appreciate that in American culture we feel that you have the right to enjoy what you wish and the freedom to express it ,in whatever manner you feel appropriate.

Now you have done so, but in turn, have shown yourself to be a narrow minded MORON, intent on proving this MYTHICAL and MISGUIDED point of yours. Now, I wont say that every American is great, we're loaded with ASSHOLES just as you're country and every other is. However, my remarks werent indicative of that behaviour, even though THAT's HOW YOU TOOK IT!!!! The continued fact that you refuse to understand that?? Simply makes you the equivalent of those that you wish to DENIGRATE:good

[eze]

Ive seen post like that. You happen to support a US fighter over a non US fighter and you labeled as just picking the fighter simply based on his nation. Which is utter bullshit. I think Floyd beats Hatton because he is better. And I am a fan of both of them.


I had an argument with some guy who called "The US" a bunch of fags or something like that for a similiar reason.

[C Money]

I live in the USA, I know hundreds of Americans and he does make some good points.
Perhaps if u stopped defending and started listening a little more u might understand what is being typed to you.
As I said in a previous post to you, just because you want it to be so doesn't make it so. I stopped responding to you because you were not making any sense. Now I am just adding some weight to the other posters comments as he was being called unqualified to make such opinions based on limited experience (not sure how that could honestly be asserted from your vantage point). Mine is not limted.


:huh :huh

You come out of nowhere with you're BS??? I didnt defend ALL Americans!!! We have our share of idiots and it seems to me YOU"RE INCLUDED!!!!!!

He attacked my statements, which he took out of context, and misconstrued to serve his own narrow minded purpose. SO, FUCK YOU!!! Theres no possible misconception there!!! You wanna jump in and defend BS because you find my opinion's opposite of you're own?? Yet, you have no basis or legitimacy in being involved in this debate, other than to score you're own agenda, which includes dislike of me:lol:

I got an IDEA, keep NOT RESPONDING TO ME!!! Or?? At least have something rational, intelligent, and reasonable to add other than you're dislike of ME:good I find it hilarious that you start off "I stopped responding to you" WHERE MUTH$%^&A?? You werent even in this conversation.:rofl

IF you're referring to another thread where you told me I should read more and learn to appreciate Castro???:lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe you should REVIEW THAT THREAD:yep :yep :yep

BTW??? Your mindset IS EXTREMELY LIMITED!!! From whats apparent?? You're the graveling, ass kissing, whatever you international fellows say, type asshole:hi:

[C Money]

No, its because we act differently than you. It is not arrogance often, just our way of relating to each other and the way things work over here.

Do you realize how different foreigners act in our country? Often bringing their own views and beliefs here when they visit or stay?

It is easy to pick on the US because we are big target. That's a simple fact of this world at this particular time. Yes....I am saying you should not have an opinion of American people. You should have opinions of the people you have met or encountered. If they happen to be American...ok then. But their being American is only going to tell you so much about them, especially if you don't know much about American culture. I often meet people from Europe who visit here who are totally suprised at our casualness and the way we address each other....often to the degree that they come off arrogant, at least by our standards. There is a cultural difference.

Goddamn KG, We've obviously had our differences, but if there's a positive here in this thread??? I've gained much more respect for you as a poster and rational human being. Honestly?? I never anticipated such feelings. Yet, the objectiveness of you're opinion is really ILLUSTRATED BY THOSE DIFFERENCES :good

If there was a BOWINg emoticon?? INSERT IT HERE!! Even though, thats a rather Asian form of RESPECT.:happy :happy

[kg0208]

Goddamn KG, We've obviously had our differences, but if there's a positive here in this thread??? I've gained much more respect for you as a poster and rational human being. Honestly?? I never anticipated such feelings. Yet, the objectiveness of you're opinion is really ILLUSTRATED BY THOSE DIFFERENCES :good

If there was a BOWINg emoticon?? INSERT IT HERE!! Even though, thats a rather Asian form of RESPECT.:happy :happy

Hey, we had our differences on one subject, but honestly, reading the majority of your other posts, I tend to agree with you a majority of the time believe it or not.

Keep opening peoples eyes to the whole picture, not just the picture they want to see or have had the opportunity to see. There is always more to learn right? Much respect....

[kg0208]

kg what are you nationality?

I am American.

[C Money]

Hey, we had our differences on one subject, but honestly, reading the majority of your other posts, I tend to agree with you a majority of the time believe it or not.

Keep opening peoples eyes to the whole picture, not just the picture they want to see or have had the opportunity to see. There is always more to learn right? Much respect....


DAMN!!! This thread was worth it after all!!!!:yep

I tend to hold grudges, but you've made that QUITE DIFFICULT in this case:scaredas:

Yes, NUFF RESPECT DUE !!!!!!:good

[Taffyy]

Lately I have been quite dismissive of America simply because Im sick of reading that EVERYTHING boxing HAS to gravitate to the states............Brit fighters are no good until they have beat americans in america etc...etc.......The shite aimed at Calzaghe & Hatton on here sometimes , mainly by U.S. posters is fucking ridiculous...........& in JC's case who in Gods name at his weight is there worth fighting in the US..........???????........Another thing is that British boxing in my opinion is a far greater crowd puller & all round event than fights in the US..........Come on...the Boxing "Mecca" of the US attracts how many again to the superfights.......??????????.............The cold hard reality of it is that sadly America means $$$$$ & alot of the soul has gone out of American Boxing in my opinion......I have watched alot of big U.S. fights lately & has come across as passionless............Then you get some berk on here posting how PBF v DLH is a far bigger "event" than anything Hatton can bring....??????......Its laughable............Dont take this the wrong way the US has some excellent fighters & some very knowledgeable posters on this site but I really do feel that on a whole US boxing needs to recapture its glory days..........When I was a kid it seemed like there was a superfight every fucking week from the states , Hagler & Hearns to name a few generating real excitment.............something that is lacking in Americas boxing imagination today........

[C Money]

Lately I have been quite dismissive of America simply because Im sick of reading that EVERYTHING boxing HAS to gravitate to the states............Brit fighters are no good until they have beat americans in america etc...etc.......The shite aimed at Calzaghe & Hatton on here sometimes , mainly by U.S. posters is fucking ridiculous...........& in JC's case who in Gods name at his weight is there worth fighting in the US..........???????........Another thing is that British boxing in my opinion is a far greater crowd puller & all round event than fights in the US..........Come on...the Boxing "Mecca" of the US attracts how many again to the superfights.......??????????.............The cold hard reality of it is that sadly America means $$$$$ & alot of the soul has gone out of American Boxing in my opinion......I have watched alot of big U.S. fights lately & has come across as passionless............Then you get some berk on here posting how PBF v DLH is a far bigger "event" than anything Hatton can bring....??????......Its laughable............Dont take this the wrong way the US has some excellent fighters & some very knowledgeable posters on this site but I really do feel that on a whole US boxing needs to recapture its glory days..........When I was a kid it seemed like there was a superfight every fucking week from the states , Hagler & Hearns to name a few generating real excitment.............something that is lacking in Americas boxing imagination today........

If there's something lacking?? It's been in Boxing as a whole!!! Not just in the US:good

I'm rooting for Calzaghe and Hatton in their upcoming fights and I'm AMERICAN!! There's assholes on every continent and it seems that 2007 is reversing the negativity that has existed recently. As, we are starting to see the best fight the best!!! Hopefully?? that resurgence continues forward. Its not just the US, its Boxing that needs to recapture its glory and i believe it's starting to do just that:happy Every fighter and nationality is required for partcipation:yep

[Taffyy]

Fair points C but dont you think that the British boxing public shows far more passion & turns out in greater shows of support than their american counterparts...........???............Boxing over here is still very well supported even at grass roots level............Why dont the american stars get the passionate support the way british & say puerta rican fighters do.......?????

[sst]

We should be proud of what we did in WW2, (even though we resisted any contribution when Churchill himself was SCREAMING for help), but even I can see how offensive it is when idiot Americans who have no idea of history start screaming about how we won the war and saved the world.

Another poster had it right, it was the Battle of Britain which crippled the Nazi war machine. The heaviest lifting in the European war was done by the English and the Russkies. But the problem is that because of our education system, millions of Americans blindly assume that we "won" the war, whereas in truth we were a part of the winning coalition, and that coalition didn't even so much win, as Hitler lost. It was only because of a couple of huge mistakes in his leadership that Europe could even stand up to Hitler. Without them, everybody would have been fucked. Throughout 1940, Churchill himself had no idea how it was possible to win the war.
Yes Britian was a major player in [Only registered and activated users can see links] so was the States but it clearly was the Red Army that broke the Germans. Case in point was the battle of El Alamein a tremendous and costly victory for the hard pressed British that was fought at the same time as Stalingrad. While I would never down play the sacrifices paid by the brave soldiers of Montgomery's 8th army it was in fact a minor skirmish in compared to the Red Army effort at Stalingrad. Chuikov the Red Army commander lost 478,741 dead and 650,878 wounded. Over 40,000 Russian civilians were killed. Nazis and their allies lost over 850,000. Major Russian victory which the murderous Nazis were never able to recover from. Kirsk, the largest tank battle in history the battle that insured the allies would win the war. Again the Red Army paid the price for victory with losses that were staggering by western standards. Then we get to Berlin or should I say the Red Army got to Berlin. More brutal losses for our Russian allies but the spike was driven through the beasts heart and it beat no more. The laurels of victory belong to the Red Army to deny that is to deny history.

[Druid]

:huh :huh

You come out of nowhere with you're BS??? I didnt defend ALL Americans!!! We have our share of idiots and it seems to me YOU"RE INCLUDED!!!!!!

He attacked my statements, which he took out of context, and misconstrued to serve his own narrow minded purpose. SO, FUCK YOU!!! Theres no possible misconception there!!! You wanna jump in and defend BS because you find my opinion's opposite of you're own?? Yet, you have no basis or legitimacy in being involved in this debate, other than to score you're own agenda, which includes dislike of me:lol:

I got an IDEA, keep NOT RESPONDING TO ME!!! Or?? At least have something rational, intelligent, and reasonable to add other than you're dislike of ME:good I find it hilarious that you start off "I stopped responding to you" WHERE MUTH$%^&A?? You werent even in this conversation.:rofl

IF you're referring to another thread where you told me I should read more and learn to appreciate Castro???:lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe you should REVIEW THAT THREAD:yep :yep :yep

BTW??? Your mindset IS EXTREMELY LIMITED!!! From whats apparent?? You're the graveling, ass kissing, whatever you international fellows say, type asshole:hi:


I am not American and u lose as soon as u attack personally which is all you seem to be able to do.
Travel a little it will broaden your mind!

[kg0208]

Sure you different than me. Would be sad if everybody where the same.



Sure, they do. I live in Berlin, up to 30% of the population here isn´t originally German. There are many different views and actings. But only the Americans behave and stick out like i described above.
Like that druid guy wrote, try not to defend your post but read what i wrote neutrally. I´m not insulting you, i have nothing against you, i´m not writing that because i hate American people.



Well, yes the states are a big target but they make themself one, too.
You are right i should not have an oppinion about America based on the few - well, there weren´t so few as you think, there numerous Americans every semester at my university and somehow i´m always getting to know half of them. They are fun. - Americans i met. If i would be a complete logical person. But i am not. I am human. Humans have oppinions about everything, if they know it or not, based on their experience. For example i have an oppinion about our chancellor but i never met her based on what i see on TV or read or hear in radio. And just like that i have an oppinion about the states based on the people i met, news, TV and so on. Is that right from a purely logical point of view no but i am not purely logical.
And most people act like that.



Sure i don´t know everything about you guys but i´m sure we over here know much more about your culture than the other way round. Why? ´Cause we are flooded with it. We idealized the "American Way of Life" for the last 60 years. We tried to copy you. Sure we were not getting everything. Sure there are still cultural differences. But to say i don´t know much about American culture is wrong.

So, again, i don´t want to insult you. I don´t want to make the US looking bad or something like that. I just want to show you why America isn´t that liked anymore in the world. When i´m with my friends i end up the most time defend the US, even against people who were in the states. So don´t get me wrong. Just open your eyes and try to understand the views of mine. I can understand yours and i can agree with some of them.

I am not defending my post, I am trying to open your eyes to something you clearly are not viewing. I have no need to defend my post anymore tha you. Yes, Americans stick out like a sore thumb in foreign countries. My point is that foreigners stick out differently here and often because of their different cultures, they come off insulting, pushy, arrogant, and other things that Americans do when they travel abroad. These are not true indications often of their personality, but more often than not just a mark of the social differences.

And no, it's not wrong to say you don't know much about American culture. THERE IS NOT ONE AMERICAN CULTURE. That is the biggest point of this conversation that you are failing to grasp. You say that 30% of Germany isn't german. Do you know what an American is? How much of America are Americans? Our nation is full of many cultures. What you see on TV is often White America (no offense meant here, simply stating a fact) and only a certain subculture of that since they have the most money as a race and cultural background in thsi country. That is not representative of America. We are not like other countries.....you can learn our history on TV, but not our culture.

Being from Florida, I can tell you that going only a couple of states over is like moving to another country. And thats in either direction. If you have opinions about people you have never met, thats fine. But knowing that it's not a true opinion and still clinging to it, well thats on you. I refuse to do that since I may miss out on something due to being stubborn.

[sues2nd]

I am not defending my post, I am trying to open your eyes to something you clearly are not viewing. I have no need to defend my post anymore tha you. Yes, Americans stick out like a sore thumb in foreign countries. My point is that foreigners stick out differently here and often because of their different cultures, they come off insulting, pushy, arrogant, and other things that Americans do when they travel abroad. These are not true indications often of their personality, but more often than not just a mark of the social differences.

And no, it's not wrong to say you don't know much about American culture. THERE IS NOT ONE AMERICAN CULTURE. That is the biggest point of this conversation that you are failing to grasp. You say that 30% of Germany isn't german. Do you know what an American is? How much of America are Americans? Our nation is full of many cultures. What you see on TV is often White America (no offense meant here, simply stating a fact) and only a certain subculture of that since they have the most money as a race and cultural background in thsi country. That is not representative of America. We are not like other countries.....you can learn our history on TV, but not our culture.

Being from Florida, I can tell you that going only a couple of states over is like moving to another country. And thats in either direction. If you have opinions about people you have never met, thats fine. But knowing that it's not a true opinion and still clinging to it, well thats on you. I refuse to do that since I may miss out on something due to being stubborn.

:good

...........perfectly put.

[kg0208]

:good good statement and i agree with you on most parts. Most Americans i got to know better were nice people. But that wasn´t my point. My point was that this behaviour draws a picture that most people accept as a fact and then judge the USA after it. Haven´t many of your fellow Americans also a biased view of Germany based on the few things they know about it? I´m sure they have. And that´s what all this is about. The impression Americans make. It doesn´t matter if they are like that.



Firstly i want to correct you a bit. I wasn´t saying 30% of Germany isn´t German, i said 30% of Berlin isn´t German. In Germany we have about 12% non-Germans - not including people who are in Germany for more than one generation.
Well, yeah there are many cultures in America. I know that. But then the "White America" is the dominant one because they are firstly still the most and, so it seems to me, are in charge the most time. So when i talk about Americans i obviously mean that America. The Latin-, Asian- and African-Americans have their own culture. And do you really mean we only get to see "White America"? We get flooded with that "hiphop"-culture over here, the whole youth tries to copy it.
When i meant we are flooded by your culture, i wasn´t just referring to TV but to about everything. Since the end of the cold war the influence lost a bit steam but we still try to copy you in business, politics, behaviour and so on. It´s a bit hard for me to express what i mean because sometimes i don´t have the words for it but i hope you understand what i mean.



I understand your point. You know, i have an oppinion about America but that oppinion has nothing to do with my oppinion on a single person, it can be totally different. For example i think the USA is cocky, arrogant and ignorant but that don´t mean i think so over everybody from there and it also don´t mean that i won´t give them any chance. Do you get what i mean? I hope so.

I don´t want you to agree with me but i want you to understand my point.

The hip hop culture you are getting to see is being watered down after being filtered. And while White Americans still dominate the landscape, as I said, they themselves have a subculture as obviously not all of them, nor all blacks or hispanics living in this country have the same views or cultures. That is the beauty and the beast of this country. Freedom to do and think what we want on a scale that cannot be quantified.

BTW, for Americans to have a biased view of another country would mean that they at least care to have learned something. The point is, we don't only think about ourselves. We are no more selfish than the next group, we just present ourselves in a way that is not understood in other parts of the world, and vice versa.

[sst]

Thanks to Gen Butler for not allowing Prescott Bush, & Pals to create a coup back in 1933-34! However, Bush, the retarded idiot, is trying to create another coup in 2007!

v
He already has. Checked on your freedoms lately. What you have today you will not have tomorrow. Who says the Nazis are gone.

[C Money]

Fair points C but dont you think that the British boxing public shows far more passion & turns out in greater shows of support than their american counterparts...........???............Boxing over here is still very well supported even at grass roots level............Why dont the american stars get the passionate support the way british & say puerta rican fighters do.......?????


There's no doubt that Brits and Puerto Ricans turn out more in general for any fighter of that descent. One of the differences over here is it's the individual boxer rather than his nationality that will drive the big turnouts. Many times its specific to the local region, in example DLH in LA, Mesi in Buffalo, Spadafora in Pittsburgh, etc. In the US many fighters get support but it's more in terms of television numbers and to some extent, there's nothing wrong with that.

IMO there's just a cultural difference in how fighters are supported over here vs internationally. The entire Boxing world is improved and better served with the best facing each other, and better overall management of the sport in all aspects.

As for our Grass Roots here?? Again it's on the local level, but I also think there's a tremendous amount of disgust and contempt with the sad state of Amateur events in this country, and the BS scoring and politics of those events worldwide. It's another area of Boxing that with improvement could make a huge difference and perhaps more so in the US.

[C Money]

I won´t talk to you anymore. Starting to insult people only shows how weak your position is.


OH NO!!!!! I'm heartbroken!!!!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol:


Good, one less biased and twisting knucklehead to refute:good

Hilarious that you still dont understand that taking a statement out of context and using that as you're basis for how Americans think and act, is UTTER BS!!!!!!!
:yep

KG has tried to explain that in a civil fashion, but you're a lost cause from my perspective.


Good riddance:hi:

[C Money]

I am not American and u lose as soon as u attack personally which is all you seem to be able to do.
Travel a little it will broaden your mind!


You're a JOKE. You had no place in the debate and continue to jump in having said NOTHING OF MEANING OR RELEVANCE other than attack my posts:lol:


BTW?? I have a very fair amount of travel nationally and worked in an international call center for years. I've dealt with all nationalities and have much more experience a long those lines than you're average American. Which is a big part of why I'm generally NOT BIASED against people from other nations. Further, i know to judge the individual rather than make generalizations based on ORIGIN.

You're a douchbag, talking loud and saying NOTHING:good

BTW, did you read the other thread??:lol:

Castro pulled the Cubans from the games fearing mass defections!!! His greatness continues:rofl :rofl :rofl

[Napuis]

First, I want to ask all of the mods on here to PLEASE leave this in this section of the forums....it is more valid in here in this section than anywhere else on the board.

Please...and thank you.

Now onto the post....

Ok, let me start by saying why I am making this post. As of late on here, I have noticed a huge rise in the negativity toward anything US on this forum coming from the non-us posters. Whether it be US fighters....US events....or most notably US posters.

Its become that if you favor say, Mayweather over Hatton...you do so because your from the United States. Never mind any real concrete reason.

Recently I have had this said to me because of the following...

1- I felt Whitaker would beat KT.
2- I felt PRIME Holyfield would beat Sultan.
3- I feel Hopkins still poses a huge threat to Calzaghe.

As I said, its like noone can even argue a point anymore without bringing this into the arguement....valid or not. Before, I would take this as admission of the fact that they couldnt bring anything concrete into the arguement....but the rise in this stupidity has made it MUCH more prevelent as of late. I have even seen posters that I respect HIGHLY use this.

What set this all off was this was brought up during a discussion of ALL TIME FAVORITE FIGHTERS!!!!!!!!!! What does where a fighter or a fan is from have to do with why you like them? NOTHING...thats what.

And dont get me wrong, if someone were to bring up that the mainstream US media severely underrates foriegn fighters....I would 100% agree. But, that does not lend credance for the most part here. And to be just as honest, the non-US posters on here are just as bad, if not worse in some cases as the aformentioned media outlets....and double that for the US posters....its rare we use this as an arguement (mostly when its something ridiculous that is said...never just as the meat of our point).

Sorry to go on a rant here, but I KNOW FOR A FACT that I am not the only US poster on here that is sick of this bullshit. I under most circumstances know my shit when it comes to this sport....I form my opinions off of what I have seen, what I have learned and what I know....not where I was born.

So, to all of you out there that seem to dip into the above-mentioned well everytime its a US vs Non-US fighter post....next time, please, do some research, form an opinion and attempt to present this opinion using actual boxing knowledge, rather than letting your nationalistic views cloud your judgement and ruin your posts...

:good

(again, I hope we can keep this in the General Boxing Forum...it really doesnt apply anywhere else....and sorry for the rant....but this is just getting old and fucking annoying)

Americans are so blindly patriotic and ignorant - they will question anything from overseas and support their own fighters/culture blindly.

It seems also to be populated by fat pigs.

These are opinions echoed worldwide.

[sues2nd]

Americans are so blindly patriotic and ignorant - they will question anything from overseas and support their own fighters/culture blindly.

It seems also to be populated by fat pigs.

These are opinions echoed worldwide.

DOES ANYONE WONDER ANYMORE WHY I MADE THIS POST!!!

:patsch

One - your above statement is so broad and generalizing that it should just be ignored.....but where is the fun in that.

First and formost. Blind support on this site, as well as the sport in general seems to be a where your from thing....as opposed to an american thing. You need to take the blinders off and look at this from all perspectives....

Next, the US seems to be populated by fat pigs???? Doesnt deserve a response.

And you ended it by saying that these opinions are echoed worldwide??? Well then, doesnt it prove the original point of my post.

My history on this site shows that I normally look at things as a fan of the sport, long before I look at it as a fan of a fighter.

I picked Calzaghe over Lacy....yet I would pick Floyd over Hatton. Do I do the first as a boxing fan, yet the second as a US poster picking a US fighter? Or do I look at it as an educated fan and pick whom I think would win based on this.....too many times, I am attacked as an american picking american for things such as the Hatton/Floyd thing.

Its getting fucking ridiculous....and the idiodicy of your reply shows that you are one of the people perpetuating this problem and stereotype.

Grow up....:hi:

[C Money]

Three words for you. Learn to read.
Congratulations for confirming my bias.

You're the one in need of reading lesson's. Since you took what I said out of context and twisted it to suit you're purpose.

You confirmed you're own bias and hide blindly behind YOU"RE STORY:lol:
You only show ignorance and bias, nothing MORE:good

[C Money]

Americans are so blindly patriotic and ignorant - they will question anything from overseas and support their own fighters/culture blindly.

It seems also to be populated by fat pigs.

These are opinions echoed worldwide.


Yes, generalizations are the sign of SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE and CULTURE!!!



:lol: :lol: :lol: and :-( :-( :-(

[Druid]

You're a JOKE. You had no place in the debate and continue to jump in having said NOTHING OF MEANING OR RELEVANCE other than attack my posts:lol:


BTW?? I have a very fair amount of travel nationally and worked in an international call center for years. I've dealt with all nationalities and have much more experience a long those lines than you're average American. Which is a big part of why I'm generally NOT BIASED against people from other nations. Further, i know to judge the individual rather than make generalizations based on ORIGIN.

You're a douchbag, talking loud and saying NOTHING:good

BTW, did you read the other thread??:lol:

Castro pulled the Cubans from the games fearing mass defections!!! His greatness continues:rofl :rofl :rofl

That is because your posts say absolutely nothing, u are angry at anyone who disagrees with u and are just plain rude, your attitude only confirms the opinions that people have been stating about your country. I don't know why u insist on trying to poorly and hopelessly defend the indefensible. You would do much better in this discussion by not saying a word.

Your assertation that u working in an International call centre somehow makes u an authority and more compassionate to other cultures than your fellow citizens is ridiculous.

As I said before TRAVEL!

[C Money]

DOES ANYONE WONDER ANYMORE WHY I MADE THIS POST!!!

:patsch

One - your above statement is so broad and generalizing that it should just be ignored.....but where is the fun in that.

First and formost. Blind support on this site, as well as the sport in general seems to be a where your from thing....as opposed to an american thing. You need to take the blinders off and look at this from all perspectives....

Next, the US seems to be populated by fat pigs???? Doesnt deserve a response.

And you ended it by saying that these opinions are echoed worldwide??? Well then, doesnt it prove the original point of my post.

My history on this site shows that I normally look at things as a fan of the sport, long before I look at it as a fan of a fighter.

I picked Calzaghe over Lacy....yet I would pick Floyd over Hatton. Do I do the first as a boxing fan, yet the second as a US poster picking a US fighter? Or do I look at it as an educated fan and pick whom I think would win based on this.....too many times, I am attacked as an american picking american for things such as the Hatton/Floyd thing.

Its getting fucking ridiculous....and the idiodicy of your reply shows that you are one of the people perpetuating this problem and stereotype.

Grow up....:hi:

At first, I didnt quite grasp where you were coming from, yet, a little partcipation here??? And wa la!!!!!


Good post, good topic, and it's brought quite a few rats out in the OPEN:good

[Brickhaus]

Americans are so blindly patriotic and ignorant - they will question anything from overseas and support their own fighters/culture blindly.

It seems also to be populated by fat pigs.

These are opinions echoed worldwide.

Gross generalizations, but probably more true than not. Still, it's only true about 51% of the time, the other 49% of us aren't quite so jingoistic.

[C Money]

That is because your posts say absolutely nothing, u are angry at anyone who disagrees with u and are just plain rude, your attitude only confirms the opinions that people have been stating about your country. I don't know why u insist on trying to poorly and hopelessly defend the indefensible. You would do much better in this discussion by not saying a word.

Your assertation that u working in an International call centre somehow makes u an authority and more compassionate to other cultures than your fellow citizens is ridiculous.

As I said before TRAVEL!

I have experienced more contact, conversation, and experience with people from all over the world than you're average American.

You can go fuck yourself as YOU HAVE DONE/SAID NOTHING other than attack me. Defend the indefensible??? What that YOU HATE AMERICANS and dont understand their behaviour or culture??

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Take you're ignorant, biased, clown ass and go wipe it!!! OR?? Have a point and some relevant discussion.:hi:

["TKO"]

To stick my own two penn'orth in:

I read (as a lurker) a lot of American based boxing sites. I am forever reading certain bigoted American posters coming out with comments like "he's an overprotected Euro bum" or "he's hiding in (insert name of country)". It's like nothing outside of the states matters. Many of them know jack sh1t about fighters or fights that are not in the states and are just flat out dismissive with an arrogant "if it ain't American it ain't worth knowing about" attitude. A minority to be sure, but unfortunately these idiots tend to be heard above the more sensible posters with their offensive and bigoted opinions. Excellent fighters like Hatton, Calzaghe, Witter, Woods, Michalczewski, Tiozzo, Ottke (well maybe I should scratch that one), Kessler are derided because they don't fight in the states. Despite the fact that Calzaghe, for one, has beaten just about every half decent 168lber the U.S has to offer.

A case in point goes to Clinton Woods. RJJ was absolutely pilloried for facing him, Woods was given no respect at all. Okay so Clinton didn't win, but he put up a decent show and subsequently proved himself as good as or better than a lot of the U.S based fighters (Gonzalez, Telesco, Griffin etc...) who did not get nearly as much stick.

On this board, the balance is the opposite, the majority of posters are European and hence the Americans come in for a lot of stick on the grounds of this attitude. Personally, I consider myself a fairly reasonable guy. I support my favourites, but am not blind to their faults and will call a fight as I see it. I don't think Hatton will beat Mayweather, though I will be rooting for him to kick that arrogant ass. It is this obnoxious few who are unable to see anything past their front window who provoke the anti-American feeling.

[C Money]

Read my posts again, if you think about it you would understand that you got me totally wrong. So, learn to read.
When it´s ignorance and biased in not to agree but to understand and accept the points somebody else is making, well, then i guess i´m ignorant and biased. But at least i know how to behave and to act a grown-up, you don´t.


I got you wrong???

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph..................:nono :nono :nono

You took my statement out of context and used it as the basis for the "type of American behaviour" that you dislike. Yet, I wasnt saying anything that was in that vein.

You have repeatedly tried to stick to that assumption and beat that drum even though KG tried in a very civil manner to help you understand where you were wrong.

From what I've seen, it wasnt misunderstanding, you INTENDED to keep pushing you're agenda. Yes, some Americans behave badly in your eyes(and yes some really do, as does every otrher nationality). Yet when you dont understand the diffrence in behaviour or understand certain statements and keep on ranting away, IT SHOWS BIAS rather than an objective opinion of REAL BEHAVIOUR.

Bottomline?? You're a fucking JERK!! But dont worry, i wont hold that against the rest of the people from you're country and generalize them as you do Americans. Since we're all grown up here?? Eh......

[C Money]

Yes you did.



Wrong, i took it out of context and used it as an example. Big difference.



Again, read what i wrote. Yes, i sticked to it and still do. But i explained why and how. You didn´t even get that. Yes, kg knows to discuss pretty well, he´s superior to me in that. But English is his mother tongue and only my third, so that is hardly a surprise that i look bad against him.



I´ve never said i´m un-biased. Nobody is. If you would have read my posts you would have seen that i understand the difference very well. Read them and you see what i mean, especially my second last answer to kg - i think it was that one.



You obviously don´t know how to behave. Perhaps you should visit a course for anger management, it seems like you need one.


:lol: :lol:

The only thing that makes you look bad?? Is the attitude which you have towards American's IN GENERAL and the misunderstandings that you have and put forth.

My original statement wasnt bad behaviour, it was actually saying that everyone should be welcome to their own feelings. You mistook the context in which I said and start babbling on and on about our selfishness, arrogance, and ignorance:-( :-(

Since it became clear, that even calm explanation as KG provided, still wouldnt penetrate the cement walls of you're narrow minded bias?? Yes, i have been belligerent in responses and that's how I deal with CLOSED MINDED individuals such as yourself. I've read your posts and find you're attitude and generalizations VERY SAD and see that you simply wont accept anything different than how you wanna see the issue.

Like I said earlier?? I wont hold you're views/opinion's against the rest of you're country and people.

[C Money]

fluxstuff



Ran out of room to include each paragraph of you're's i responded to and edited to cut the total charcter amount. I'm sure you can filter you're own views.

Where was Bin Laden basing his activities??? Sure saw Afghanistan in the background of his videotaped jihad bullshit!!! So guess what?? BOMBS AWAY!!!!! There is no doubt Al Queda co-ordinated and planned the 9/11 attacks and every scumbag piece of RADICAL ISLAMIC SHIT that's in that network should be killed , UNMERCIFULLY, IMO!!!!! As for other atrocities?? Skip the bullshit and save the time. IN YOUR MIND, the USA is the only perpetrator of such and the demon of the world. Sounds to me like you are they type of recruit Al -Queda is looking for:good

People do have responsibility for their own actions, but the US should maybe accept that too, since their vicious and totalitarian policies have led to MORE terrorism, including the attack on themselves.

Really?? Then perhaps the radical salami's(:lol: ) should take a little for the way they oppress and limit the people that fall under there rule. It's absolutely pathetic old world style domination by any means necessary and completely out of touch with civilized society in this day and age.

Now, I didnt agree with the foray into Iraq. Yet clearly Iraq has been a focal piece in the mid-east puzzle for a long time. The US supported Hussein and Iraq in the Iran vs Iraq war and gee, Iran is still agitating, plotting, meddling, and waiting for the US to pull out SO THEY CAN MOVE IN. Funny how it's ok for every other country to invade an conquer at leisure but wrong for the US involvement when clearly world energy needs are affected :lol: It's a power struggle between those middle east forces that wish to see everyone abiding by and acquiescing to the style of life they see fit. As for you're "numbers" in the death toll?? No way in hell the Us killed 500,000 innocent civilians and stat's can be twisted around easily to show what you want to show, that's not PROOF.


It speaks volumes to the extent of the networks these terrorists have formed across multiple nation's and Bin-Laden is used as a "Heroic" example in recruiting purposes. The biggest mistake the US made was then president Clinton not ok'ing his assassination previously.

Let's not make this an "oh, the poor jews" argument. Yes, you had a shit time in the holocaust, but most of the guys in Israel now, I'm willing to bet they weren't even alive when that happened. So, really, get that chip off your shoulder and move on. They have the guts to pick a fight when they have the US' backing, especially after stealing the land of another nation simply on the basis that The Bible (reliable tome that it is) says it's theirs. The US allowed that situation to get worse for THEIR OWN BENEFIT - control of the oil and the land it runs through. The Israelis do what they say, fuck the rest of the world.

Look I'm not a defender of the Jews!!! In fact, i find the attitudes of some American Jews elitist, close minded, and extremely arrogant. Yet, that's not every Jew and it doesn't give me reason to OK the slaughter of them as a people. As happened in the holocaust, and as would happen again, IF THE US didn't assist them. The rest of the middle east would love nothing more than to tear them apart and claim the land they live on. Now, I admit that Israel's actions seem to sometimes instigate shit, while falling back on US support. As I've said, the day the USA moves away from OIL as a major energy source and out of the middle east?? It's a great day!! The atrocities committed?? Wont go away, they will be increased. The middle east and the people's within have always been about greed, control, and war. Yet, the blame is always on the US and never on any of the other parties involved.
People blame America because, as a nation, they have the ability to quell these disputes, but they just use them for their own means.
The ability??? :lol: :lol: Jesus didn't have that ability and the USA is supposed to change everything??? Get outta here!!!
Please define which nameless atrocities you refer to in Africa. To me it sounds like you're talking out your ass - Africa has borne the scars of the other nations - most notably the US and the UK - and has struggled to overcome the poverty and poor-education. Africa has almost nothing to offer the West, so basically are ignored.
Certain African nations have almost always been at odds and war within. Many atrocities have been committed by their own civil unrest. I only used that as a comparison to the nature of warring factors in the middle east. Look at Rwanda for the most recent example. Again certain places have long history of unrest. The middle east and Africa are examples of such.
Well, you can be pissy about it, but it is actually true. What they did was a massive help in the war effort: no argument, but the reasons they did it are documented in various dossiers that were released about five years ago. Noam Chomsky wrote several articles on the topic, published in New Statesman in the UK.
The reason it was done?? Was Pearl Harbour, not world domination or control, stick those dossier's up you're derriere. Again, "we were a massive help" and "controlling the world" doesn't go logically together.
In fact, there are various books about the US' imperial plans following WW2 - how the gov't planned a strategy to control the worlds resources. Read John pilger's The New Rulers of the World for more information.
Sure there's plenty of propaganda aimed at spewing hate and negativity on the US. That doesn't mean it's true or relevant:good
You got your asses kicked in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. How many other dominant armies could fail to overthrow a bunch of guys fighting with rocks?! The incompetent might of the US of course!
FUCK YOU!!! US Forces are very strong, the problem is the political decisions, and interference of such, combine to make "victory" an ambiguous definition. In Vietnam much like Iraq, you cant force other nations to have a will of their own. To start slaughtering everyone just feeds the fire's of such like you who would paint the USA as the big, evil, empire. Which is UTTER BULLSHIT. Funny that these same incompetent forces were such a big help in WW2:lol: :lol:
Look at the UK army for inspiration: they attacked Argentina, thousands of miles away, and hammered the living fuck out of a seriously underpowered army within weeks. The US have been in Afghanistan for SIX YEARS and only succeeded in opening up an even bigger drug trade. World -1, US - 0!
I'll give Britain credit, they spurned the negative perception that was thrown their way in doing so and did it right. The USA could do the same in Afghanistan and Iraq and all you'd have is REAL death tolls in the 1,000,000's and even more hate for the USA. I might add the USA even took heat for Britain's actions in Argentina politically. It's almost a double edged sword as you egg it on and sling hate for it with the same tongue.
As for the increased drug trade??:lol: Our nations political policies are the reason people take drugs and the Us is one of the largest CONSUMERS not PRODUCERS of such. Funny how the opium poppies come mostly from Afghanistan and ****stan regions:yep Yet that's the US's fault??? If the US legalized and regulated the use and manufacture of drugs?? Boy...OH BOY.... would the Al-Queda networks lose funding!!! If there's an increase?? Look at whose profiting and eat it!!!! We could produce our own poppies and marijuana. South America would still have most of their cocaine supplies safe as they have the better environment for Cocoa.
Look at Iraq: for all their superior firepower, troops are still dying on a daily basis and the US can't get a grip on the complicated politics, because they removed the one leader who kept a handle on the whole thing. World-2, US-0.
Glad you bring up good ol Saddam's control:lol: Remember how he achieved it?? MASS GRAVES, ring a bell??? So again, you're bias and hate for the USA shines through as you hate us for being involved and then use the slaughter of innocents as justification for how we are failing to maintain control.
Ultimately?? You talk out both sides of you're face and have proven only that you have great disdain for the USA. I got an idea why don't you hurry out and join the jihad:good You're frame of mind is already down with the hate, that's about all YOU SEEM TO OWN!!!!! :hi:

[the_churn]

R
Look at Iraq: for all their superior firepower, troops are still dying on a daily basis and the US can't get a grip on the complicated politics, because they removed the one leader who kept a handle on the whole thing. World-2, US-0.


Of course, this also generously fails to mention that my favorite ex-president Ronald Reagan, by and through Don Rumsfeld who helped normalize relationships with Hussein, managed to help provide Iraq with weapons, biological agents, equipment used to build WMD programs built by US contractors and general tactical assistance in the war against Iraq. And as for Osama, one need only watch Rambo III to see how beloved the noble Afghan struggle against the Soviets was portrayed in the American mainstream media of that era and how Reagan's support of foreign intervention through folks like OBL in that conflict later came to bite the West in the ass.

To Reagan's credit, however, he did see the wisdom of arming a dictator who kept radical Islam in check. Whether anyone believes it or not, the world was much safer when Saddam was in power. I suppose that's why he went to the gallows smiling.

I know a lot of my fellow Americans really love to wave the flag every chance they get, but every time I travel out of the States I feel a little more embarassed and a little more responsible as a citizen of a jauggernaut that has seriously managed to mess up the stability of the Middle East for the next century.

[smokey]

People do have responsibility for their own actions, but the US should maybe accept that too, since their vicious and totalitarian policies have led to MORE terrorism, including the attack on themselves.

Many Americans agree with that view. The Cold War basically set us up to step into the shoes of the failed British empire. It was a mistake and really didn't have anything to do with out national interests, and really about national prestige... which quite frankly costs too much to be worth it.
Let's not make this an "oh, the poor jews" argument. Yes, you had a shit time in the holocaust, but most of the guys in Israel now, I'm willing to bet they weren't even alive when that happened. So, really, get that chip off your shoulder and move on. They have the guts to pick a fight when they have the US' backing, especially after stealing the land of another nation simply on the basis that The Bible (reliable tome that it is) says it's theirs. The US allowed that situation to get worse for THEIR OWN BENEFIT - control of the oil and the land it runs through. The Israelis do what they say, fuck the rest of the world.

Not to pick nits, but it was the British who stepped aside in the formation of Israel. There was plenty of support in the US, but the Brits basically refused to negotiate the growing tension between Jews and Muslims and simply pulled out in 1947 and let the chips fall where they may. They were the ones who were supposed to police the place under the UN. See the British Mandate of Palestine.

Well, you can be pissy about it, but it is actually true. What they did was a massive help in the war effort: no argument, but the reasons they did it are documented in various dossiers that were released about five years ago. Noam Chomsky wrote several articles on the topic, published in New Statesman in the UK.

Chomsky is a well known kook in the US. I've read plenty of his opinions, and it's pretty obvious he works from the standpoint of coming to his conclusion then patching together evidence to support it. The guy openly blames this country for everything wrong in the world, and then comes up with a sinister subplot to sell books on tape to young socialists. I'm not going to debate that US foreign policy has been on the wrong side of things more often than not, but the sinister political schemes driving it are laughable. This government can't put together a plan to rescue a few thousand people from a flooded city, but I'm supposed to accept that a bunch of geniouses are able to make military and economic decision to perfectly predict the best economic impact for the US 5-10 years in the future? PLEASE! We're borderline bankrupt from our global comittments now. I'd like to know when the US starts reaping the benefit of this imperialism!


You got your asses kicked in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. How many other dominant armies could fail to overthrow a bunch of guys fighting with rocks?! The incompetent might of the US of course!

Look at the UK army for inspiration: they attacked Argentina, thousands of miles away, and hammered the living fuck out of a seriously underpowered army within weeks. The US have been in Afghanistan for SIX YEARS and only succeeded in opening up an even bigger drug trade. World -1, US - 0!

Look at Iraq: for all their superior firepower, troops are still dying on a daily basis and the US can't get a grip on the complicated politics, because they removed the one leader who kept a handle on the whole thing. World-2, US-0.



Uhhhhhh where to start?

Korean casualties (which the UK fought in, too, by the way):

UN forces: 16,000
US Forces: 33,600
S Korean Forces: 415,000

N Korean: 520,000
Chinese: 900,000

We didn't get our asses kicked there. The Chinese entered the war, we killed almost a million of them, and Truman and the UN just weren't willing invade China (the only thing that would have stopped their troops pouring in) and start WWIII. Peace was never officially achieved, as they are still in an indefinite cease fire with no official peace treaty signed.

Vietnam? Never should have been there. We COULD have won, but the human cost would have been horrible and not for any good reason.

Afghanistan and Iraq are cases where we destroyed the enemy forces pretty quickly and made the mistake of trying to occupy. The Brits didn't try to occupy Argentina, but they did come to Reagan to ask permission before attacking. :)

I work for the US military, and in a battle of armies the US could stomp the nearest 2 competators easily. We could tackle 2-3 Euro powers simultaneously. What we have difficulty with, as do all conquerers, is occupying hostile territory. If we wanted to play like the Mongols we could just create enough carnage to bathe the streets in baby's blood and win the peace, but I think the moral outrage of the American people (rightfully so) make that impossible to do.

Personally, I'd like to see the US pull back out forces. Europe has been piggybacking on our military power to lower their own security spending for generations now. We get nothing for it and should cut it off. I think eventually Americans will get sick of other industrialized nations enjoying free government services that we can't have because we make up for 60% of the global military spending.

[Smazz20]

Anybody else find this thead tedious!!

Bias exists on all sides gentlemen.

[China_hand_Joe]

There is far too much American tolerance here -fullstop-

[China_hand_Joe]

Bias exists on both all sides gentlemen.No it doesn't, it might exist on all sides if Brits hadn't been brainwashed by the American media -fullstop- Now even the Brits are convinced considering Calzaghe the best P4P fighter of the last decade is an example of pro-Brit bias -fullstop- It is sickening -fullstop-

[C Money]

[/font][/size][/b][/i][/i][/u]

Many Americans agree with that view. The Cold War basically set us up to step into the shoes of the failed British empire. It was a mistake and really didn't have anything to do with out national interests, and really about national prestige... which quite frankly costs too much to be worth it.
[/b][/font][/size][/i][/color][/i][/u]

[i]Not to pick nits, but it was the British who stepped aside in the formation of Israel. There was plenty of support in the US, but the Brits basically refused to negotiate the growing tension between Jews and Muslims and simply pulled out in 1947 and let the chips fall where they may. They were the ones who were supposed to police the place under the UN. See the British Mandate of Palestine.


Chomsky is a well known kook in the US. I've read plenty of his opinions, and it's pretty obvious he works from the standpoint of coming to his conclusion then patching together evidence to support it. The guy openly blames this country for everything wrong in the world, and then comes up with a sinister subplot to sell books on tape to young socialists. I'm not going to debate that US foreign policy has been on the wrong side of things more often than not, but the sinister political schemes driving it are laughable. This government can't put together a plan to rescue a few thousand people from a flooded city, but I'm supposed to accept that a bunch of geniouses are able to make military and economic decision to perfectly predict the best economic impact for the US 5-10 years in the future? PLEASE! We're borderline bankrupt from our global comittments now. I'd like to know when the US starts reaping the benefit of this imperialism!


Uhhhhhh where to start?

Korean casualties (which the UK fought in, too, by the way):

UN forces: 16,000
US Forces: 33,600
S Korean Forces: 415,000

N Korean: 520,000
Chinese: 900,000

We didn't get our asses kicked there. The Chinese entered the war, we killed almost a million of them, and Truman and the UN just weren't willing invade China (the only thing that would have stopped their troops pouring in) and start WWIII. Peace was never officially achieved, as they are still in an indefinite cease fire with no official peace treaty signed.

Vietnam? Never should have been there. We COULD have won, but the human cost would have been horrible and not for any good reason.

Afghanistan and Iraq are cases where we destroyed the enemy forces pretty quickly and made the mistake of trying to occupy. The Brits didn't try to occupy Argentina, but they did come to Reagan to ask permission before attacking. :)

I work for the US military, and in a battle of armies the US could stomp the nearest 2 competators easily. We could tackle 2-3 Euro powers simultaneously. What we have difficulty with, as do all conquerers, is occupying hostile territory. If we wanted to play like the Mongols we could just create enough carnage to bathe the streets in baby's blood and win the peace, but I think the moral outrage of the American people (rightfully so) make that impossible to do.

Personally, I'd like to see the US pull back out forces. Europe has been piggybacking on our military power to lower their own security spending for generations now. We get nothing for it and should cut it off. I think eventually Americans will get sick of other industrialized nations enjoying free government services that we can't have because we make up for 60% of the global military spending.


Appreciate you're input but all of the quotes you responded too were by Fluxstuff. Just for clarity's sake.

[C Money]

Schools out.


:lol: :lol:

Thank you Ward Churchill!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


We arent solving world affairs here and it's quite clear that you and I have very different takes and opinion on the USA and its actions. I'm continually amused with the duality of you're "arguments", You try to have you're cake and it eat too. You love the US but we are the scourge of the world.:yep


I'm not going down the 10000 charcter post road again:nono I disagree with much of you're sentiment and vice versa.:good IMO, you blaim the US for the worlds problems. We are a superpower and such criticism and propoganda will always exist. In other words?? You'll always have company in you're views, but that doesnt make it true:good

[kg0208]

Your last point amused me though. Not sure of its accuracy, because the US enjoys its military might. I don't think I've ever seen a president cut spending

Clinton cut military spending.

[C Money]

And again you proved you didn´t understand anything i wrote, just what you wanted to read. Poor boy.
btw. if you think it insults are intelligent arguments you really should go back to school.

I'm done with you and hope you feel the same:good

You have done or said NOTHING which admits you took my view out of context and travel down you're merry road to righteousness with more BS. Have a nice time of it, I have no respect for you or you're viewpoints. You refuse to accept any responsibility for you're own misunderstanding and then accuse me of the same??:hi:

Not, poor, not a boy, and dont give a shit what you think or feel.

[smokey]

Your last point amused me though. Not sure of its accuracy, because the US enjoys its military might. I don't think I've ever seen a president cut spending

Trust me, it's accurate. Here's the figures from 2006, not counting Iraq/Afhanistan spending. The majority of US military spending is due to forward deployment bases around the world.


United States, $528.7 billion, 46 percent
Britain, $59.2 billion, 5 percent
France, $53.1 billion, 5 percent
China, $49.5 billion, 4 percent
Japan, $43.7 billion, 4 percent
Germany, $37.0 billion, 3 percent
Russia, $34.7 billion, 3 percent
Italy, $29.9 billion, 3 percent
Saudi Arabia, $29.0 billion, 3 percent
India, $23.9 billion, 2 percent
Quite frankly, I don't get it. I think our politicians motivation for maintaining this has a lot more to do with the desire to be in the middle podium during international meetings than actually helping America. What American interests are being protected by actions against Serbia, Somalia, Iraq, and signing "mutual" defense treaties with half the nations in the world? The Brits learned their lesson with this already. Maintaining global imperialism begins to cost more to maintain than it helps the country.... a big war or two and you're absolutely broke. We don't really get ANYTHING from our imperialism except prestige and no bid contracts for Haliburton.

[smokey]

Appreciate you're input but all of the quotes you responded too were by Fluxstuff. Just for clarity's sake.

Heh... I got confused with all the quoting.

[C Money]

Heh... I got confused with all the quoting.

No problem, it's easily understandable especially after hitting the character limit as i did in response:good

Never did that before and it's not worth going it again when dealing with opinion's of such as Fluff N STUFF:lol:

[Druid]

[/font][/size][/b][/i][/i][/u]



Chomsky is a well known kook in the US. I've read plenty of his opinions, and it's pretty obvious he works from the standpoint of coming to his conclusion then patching together evidence to support it. The guy openly blames this country for everything wrong in the world, and then comes up with a sinister subplot to sell books on tape to young socialists. I'm not going to debate that US foreign policy has been on the wrong side of things more often than not, but the sinister political schemes driving it are laughable. This government can't put together a plan to rescue a few thousand people from a flooded city, but I'm supposed to accept that a bunch of geniouses are able to make military and economic decision to perfectly predict the best economic impact for the US 5-10 years in the future? PLEASE! We're borderline bankrupt from our global comittments now. I'd like to know when the US starts reaping the benefit of this imperialism!


Uhhhhhh where to start?


Vietnam? Never should have been there. We COULD have won, but the human cost would have been horrible and not for any good reason.

Afghanistan and Iraq are cases where we destroyed the enemy forces pretty quickly and made the mistake of trying to occupy. The Brits didn't try to occupy Argentina, but they did come to Reagan to ask permission before attacking. :)

I work for the US military, and in a battle of armies the US could stomp the nearest 2 competators easily. We could tackle 2-3 Euro powers simultaneously. What we have difficulty with, as do all conquerers, is occupying hostile territory. If we wanted to play like the Mongols we could just create enough carnage to bathe the streets in baby's blood and win the peace, but I think the moral outrage of the American people (rightfully so) make that impossible to do.

Personally, I'd like to see the US pull back out forces. Europe has been piggybacking on our military power to lower their own security spending for generations now. We get nothing for it and should cut it off. I think eventually Americans will get sick of other industrialized nations enjoying free government services that we can't have because we make up for 60% of the global military spending.

It is obvious you work for the US military.
Why don't u read some of what Robert Strange McNamara (who certainly knows far more about this topic than you) has to say about if the US could have won in Vietnam. That was an unwinable war for the US.

The US makes MASSIVE foreign policy and Domestic mistakes. Slavery, Japanese Internment, McCarthyism, Prohibition, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Abu Ghrabi, Gitmo the list goes on. Don't try and make out that it is some benevolent power, it has a very poor record when compared to almost every other developed country. Right now it is run by a group of right wing fundementalist Christian thugs. It is a Democracy and the American people get what they deserve, unfortunately the rest of the world has to deal with this bully's foreign policy. This democratically elected government is a reflection of it's people so if anti-us sentiment is felt, perhaps it is deserved!

[H .]

so back to boxing...

[Druid]

BTW - Chomsky is a good man with some good points, perhaps you should READ his books, have seen him speak live a few times and he is a very thoughtful man and I think you could learn from him.

[C Money]

It is obvious you work for the US military.
Why don't u read some of what Robert Strange McNamara (who certainly knows far more about this topic than you) has to say about if the US could have won in Vietnam. That was an unwinable war for the US.

The US makes MASSIVE foreign policy and Domestic mistakes. Slavery, Japanese Internment, McCarthyism, Prohibition, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Abu Ghrabi, Gitmo the list goes on. Don't try and make out that it is some benevolent power, it has a very poor record when compared to almost every other developed country. Right now it is run by a group of right wing fundementalist Christian thugs. It is a Democracy and the American people get what they deserve, unfortunately the rest of the world has to deal with this bully's foreign policy. This democratically elected government is a reflection of it's people so if anti-us sentiment is felt, perhaps it is deserved!


:lol:

As I said earlier??? The Us is a superpower and alway's assured of such criticism!!!

This is a guy who sings the praises of Castro by gurgling sweat from his balls a a great leader and slings mud at the US at every turn.

No one EXCEPT the US is responsible for anything in the eyes of people such as this.:nono

[kg0208]

It is obvious you work for the US military.
Why don't u read some of what Robert Strange McNamara (who certainly knows far more about this topic than you) has to say about if the US could have won in Vietnam. That was an unwinable war for the US.

The US makes MASSIVE foreign policy and Domestic mistakes. Slavery, Japanese Internment, McCarthyism, Prohibition, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Abu Ghrabi, Gitmo the list goes on. Don't try and make out that it is some benevolent power, it has a very poor record when compared to almost every other developed country. Right now it is run by a group of right wing fundementalist Christian thugs. It is a Democracy and the American people get what they deserve, unfortunately the rest of the world has to deal with this bully's foreign policy. This democratically elected government is a reflection of it's people so if anti-us sentiment is felt, perhaps it is deserved!

Wow....that deserves no response.

If you had to pick between watching paint dry and watching grass grow, what would you pick?

[C Money]

Wow....that deserves no response.

If you had to pick between watching paint dry and watching grass grow, what would you pick?

It's clear that bad US Foreign policy would poison the paint, thus preventing it from drying!!!!

On the other hand??? Communitst's would push all the "pimps" off the grass so you could easily see it grow properly!!!!


:lol:

[kg0208]

It's clear that bad US Foreign policy would poison the paint, thus preventing it from drying!!!!

On the other hand??? Communitst's would push all the "pimps" off the grass so you could easily see it grow properly!!!!


:lol:

I don't think people know much about our "democracy". I think they think we have some unlimited pool of people with from which to pick from.

[C Money]

I don't think people know much about our "democracy". I think they think we have some unlimited pool of people with from which to pick from.

I guess it depends on the reading list they choose, I suppose.:lol:


To you're point??? I dread the next election!! It's like choosing between veneral diseases:good

[kg0208]

I guess it depends on the reading list they choose, I suppose.:lol:


To you're point??? I dread the next election!! It's like choosing between veneral diseases:good

Exactly.....but I have felt that way for a while now.

[smokey]

It is obvious you work for the US military.
Why don't u read some of what Robert Strange McNamara (who certainly knows far more about this topic than you) has to say about if the US could have won in Vietnam. That was an unwinable war for the US.

I have. In every conflict you make decisions. We made the decision that were not willing to expand the war to the point necessary to win, and I don't think we should have, either. So, yeah, from that standpoint the war was unwinnable. We should have left far sooner, and really should never have been there.

The US makes MASSIVE foreign policy and Domestic mistakes. Slavery, Japanese Internment, McCarthyism, Prohibition, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Abu Ghrabi, Gitmo the list goes on. Don't try and make out that it is some benevolent power, it has a very poor record when compared to almost every other developed country. Right now it is run by a group of right wing fundementalist Christian thugs. It is a Democracy and the American people get what they deserve, unfortunately the rest of the world has to deal with this bully's foreign policy. This democratically elected government is a reflection of it's people so if anti-us sentiment is felt, perhaps it is deserved!

That is simply a joke. Yeah, the US had made plenty of mistakes, and I am 100% in favor of huge foreign policy changes, but look at the history of our precurser: the British Empire. Look at what the French did in Southeast Asia.

Besides, there is no such thing as benevolent power. All power in the form of a nation-state involves the iniation of force over individuals or other states.

Don't get me wrong, our foreign policy is all wrong, in my opinion. I work for the military, but I'd like to see our spending slashed about 60-75% and reduce our standing military to a size that makes sense. Our policies of propping a dictator here or toppling one there causes blowback terrorism on top of creating general resentment toward the US.

Like MOST people in the world, the majority of American people either aren't aware of what we do around the world or see the actions of their nation through rose colored glasses. Just like someone educated in British government schools by historians writing from a British perspective, or some educated in Chinese schools, an American who doesn't voluntarily go out and seek further information will get the line that the government wants you to hear. I don't think that warrants a dislike of individual American people, just like Indian people shouldn't hate British people because of the atrocities committed against them by the British government/military. Most Brits probably didn't even know about it.

[Druid]

I know a great deal about the US democracy and government and I dont think u have an unlimted set of choices, but surely u could have picked someone who knew who the leader of ****stan was before he ran for office and someone that had a career path before he entered his 40's. Are u seriously saying that GW Bush is the best person for the job?

[smokey]

I don't think people know much about our "democracy". I think they think we have some unlimited pool of people with from which to pick from.
Yeah.. we're not a democracy. We have a republican form of government, which is designed to avoid the problems of pure democracy. We've moved a lot closer to true democracy in the 20th century, though.

The European parlimentary/proportional party systems are very different than what we have here. I'm a libertarian. There are about 5-6 million of us in the US. We don't have a single elected official in a partisan office due to a system that really only supports 2 dominant parties. Occasionaly a party dies out or a new one takes over, but it always ends with two in viable positions.

[Druid]

I have. In every conflict you make decisions. We made the decision that were not willing to expand the war to the point necessary to win, and I don't think we should have, either. So, yeah, from that standpoint the war was unwinnable. We should have left far sooner, and really should never have been there.


That is simply a joke. Yeah, the US had made plenty of mistakes, and I am 100% in favor of huge foreign policy changes, but look at the history of our precurser: the British Empire. Look at what the French did in Southeast Asia.

Besides, there is no such thing as benevolent power. All power in the form of a nation-state involves the iniation of force over individuals or other states.

Don't get me wrong, our foreign policy is all wrong, in my opinion. I work for the military, but I'd like to see our spending slashed about 60-75% and reduce our standing military to a size that makes sense. Our policies of propping a dictator here or toppling one there causes blowback terrorism on top of creating general resentment toward the US.

Like MOST people in the world, the majority of American people either aren't aware of what we do around the world or see the actions of their nation through rose colored glasses. Just like someone educated in British government schools by historians writing from a British perspective, or some educated in Chinese schools, an American who doesn't voluntarily go out and seek further information will get the line that the government wants you to hear. I don't think that warrants a dislike of individual American people, just like Indian people shouldn't hate British people because of the atrocities committed against them by the British government/military. Most Brits probably didn't even know about it.

The Vietnam war was unwinable because you cannot kill an idea with guns and bombs unless u kill everyone who believes in that idea. That was the majority of Vietnamese people. The US tried to win for years and ended up evacuating from the roof of the Embassy.


All power is not corrupt. Power comes in all forms, Ghandi freed India from the Brits wearing nothign more than a home-spun wrap and with no political office or army...That is true power!


I don't defend the French for what they did in Indochina or North Africa. They learned by their mistakes though. The British were some of the worst offenders. I thought the conversation was about the US?

[Druid]

Like MOST people in the world, the majority of American people either aren't aware of what we do around the world or see the actions of their nation through rose colored glasses. Just like someone educated in British government schools by historians writing from a British perspective, or some educated in Chinese schools, an American who doesn't voluntarily go out and seek further information will get the line that the government wants you to hear. I don't think that warrants a dislike of individual American people, just like Indian people shouldn't hate British people because of the atrocities committed against them by the British government/military. Most Brits probably didn't even know about it.


In Democracy the people have a moral obligation to remain informed for their tax dollars pay for the bullets and bombs.


Even Shakespeare writes about this in Henry V

So, if a son that is by his father sent about
merchandise do sinfully miscarry upon the sea, the
imputation of his wickedness by your rule, should be
imposed upon his father that sent him: or if a
servant, under his master's command transporting a
sum of money, be assailed by robbers and die in
many irreconciled iniquities, you may call the
business of the master the author of the servant's
damnation: but this is not so: the king is not
bound to answer the particular endings of his
soldiers, the father of his son, nor the master of
his servant; for they purpose not their death, when
they purpose their services. Besides, there is no
king, be his cause never so spotless, if it come to
the arbitrement of swords, can try it out with all
unspotted soldiers: some peradventure have on them
the guilt of premeditated and contrived murder;
some, of beguiling virgins with the broken seals of
perjury; some, making the wars their bulwark, that
have before gored the gentle bosom of peace with
pillage and robbery. Now, if these men have
defeated the law and outrun native punishment,
though they can outstrip men, they have no wings to
fly from God: war is his beadle, war is vengeance;
so that here men are punished for before-breach of
the king's laws in now the king's quarrel: where
they feared the death, they have borne life away;
and where they would be safe, they perish: then if
they die unprovided, no more is the king guilty of
their damnation than he was before guilty of those
impieties for the which they are now visited. Every
subject's duty is the king's; but every subject's
soul is his own. Therefore should every soldier in
the wars do as every sick man in his bed, wash every
mote out of his conscience: and dying so, death
is to him advantage; or not dying, the time was
blessedly lost wherein such preparation was gained:
and in him that escapes, it were not sin to think
that, making God so free an offer, He let him
outlive that day to see His greatness and to teach
others how they should prepare.

[smokey]

The Vietnam war was unwinable because you cannot kill an idea with guns and bombs unless u kill everyone who believes in that idea. That was the majority of Vietnamese people. The US tried to win for years and ended up evacuating from the roof of the Embassy.

That's simply not true. There were plenty of people who wanted to be free of the Mongols, but an idea can be killed with fear. The idea that nobody can stop people who want independence is pretty naive. The question is always about cost, which is why I am usually against most wars. I think that the human cost is usually just not worth it. I think the US government KNEW that it had chosen a path that couldn't lead to victory, but at the same time didn't want to admit defeat. Bottom line, defending a crappy S. Vietnamise government was never worth one American life.

All power is not corrupt. Power comes in all forms, Ghandi freed India from the Brits wearing nothign more than a home-spun wrap and with no political office or army...That is true power!
The Indian independence movement was an example of force being repelled. Then you have the Indian government, which like all governments, derives its power from the people through some level of force. In the absence of force, we are all individuals with total freedom. I don't see any power being benevolent. It all needs to be viewed with distrust and carefully controlled. Look at what the Bush administration has slowly done to individual liberties in the US... and he really is just following a chain of erosion that has been going on for a while. Clinton excercised federal power over individual citizens in ways never before done, too. Meh... maybe we just have a philosophical difference here.


I don't defend the French for what they did in Indochina or North Africa. They learned by their mistakes though. The British were some of the worst offenders. I thought the conversation was about the US?

Well, yeah, but the comparison was made that the US has the worst record of abuse of power. I think the Brits learned their lesson by force. The Empire bled the motherland dry, but they sure were willing to fight for the few scraps left behind, like in the Faulklands campaign.

I also question what lessons France learned. After the Algerian situation, they set up an entirely new government and militarily declined rapidly. Did they learn lessons about colonialism and imperialism, or did they simply lose the ability to project power? Their navy is pretty much mothballed, and they have been trying to rebuild it for years, but can't seem to meet their own readiness standards.

This is a wierd discussion, because I don't really want to defend the US international position, since I am personally opposed to it. At the same time, the demonization I've seen here has a lot of misinformation. I still say that most American people don't know or care about any of this, just like most people don't know what's going on outside their country other than what comes through government controlled/influenced news sources.

[smokey]

In Democracy the people have a moral obligation to remain informed for their tax dollars pay for the bullets and bombs.




I agree. That doesn't change the fact that most people just want to worry about their lives and leave politics to the politicians. I read a ton of current event sources and am obsessive about learning various histories. So of course, I agree that we have an obligation to police our government. On the other hand, most people don't have any interest in current events or history... in that case, I'm not sure I would WANT them having too much say in our policy. No input at all is better than ignorant input.

[smokey]

BTW - Chomsky is a good man with some good points, perhaps you should READ his books, have seen him speak live a few times and he is a very thoughtful man and I think you could learn from him.

I haven't ever sat down and read one of his entire books, but I've read many exerpts and articles. I've also listened to lectures of his. I don't think the guy is an idiot, just a kook. I know he has a huge following. Populist socialists always do. People like hearing things that feel right to them, regardless of validity. Keynes economic beliefs have been largely proven false, which invalidates much Marxists/socialist principals. I don't disagree with everything that comes out of Chomsky's mouth. He talks a good game about personal freedom, but I think he turns around and loses his own arguments based on his economic beliefs.

Read some Von Mises and Rothbard, and you'll get a better handle on my political philosophy.

[OLD FOGEY]

I know a great deal about the US democracy and government and I dont think u have an unlimted set of choices, but surely u could have picked someone who knew who the leader of ****stan was before he ran for office and someone that had a career path before he entered his 40's. Are u seriously saying that GW Bush is the best person for the job?

I didn't vote for him. And no, he's ridiculous, but our whole system of selecting presidents sucks now that it been turned over to the "people" in primaries. I don't know what the best system is, but the old smoked-filled rooms worked better than voting by the most extreme fanatics of each party.

[Farmboxer]

I have noticed that most hate Oleg Maskaev and want his to lose to Peter even if it's crooked, yet it is Oleg Maskaev who in an American Citizen, Peter is not!

Oleg is an American citizen!

Oleg is an American citizen!

[Farmboxer]

All three of Vitali Klitschko's children were born in America, yet most here want him to lose to Peter. Most do not want Vitali to even get a shot at Peter, want Don King to cheat!

And again, Oleg Maskaev is an American citizen, yet they want a non-American to beat him. Hmmm, sounds like racisim to me.

[kg0208]

I know a great deal about the US democracy and government and I dont think u have an unlimted set of choices, but surely u could have picked someone who knew who the leader of ****stan was before he ran for office and someone that had a career path before he entered his 40's. Are u seriously saying that GW Bush is the best person for the job?

No, I am saying that the people that he beat were even worse for the job than he was. I am saying that we don't have the choice of who runs for president and have to pick within certainly limitations.

If you knew a great deal about our country and government, you wouldn't have made such a broad statement. Don't quote an ideal as though it's reality.

Bush was not elected by a wide margin. Are you saying that if 45% of the country did NOT vote for him, that we are responsible for him being there? Don't make broad statements.

[smokey]

You pretty much answered the point - haliburton and other US companies effectively control foreign policy for the ends of making more money. I doubt it's in the US' interests as a nation to piss off the rest of the world so much.


Right now, the lobbyist carry so much influence in our government you can just say that whoever gives away the best perks controls ALL aspects of our government.

I wouldn't say that the only people who determine our polcies are corporate interests though. Check out the Heritage Foundation and even many of the leftist think tanks. There are plenty of heavy hitters who believe that our position in the world is reliant on military dominance of any rival. We're already positioning forces to contain China's sphere of influence... for no real tangible benefit for the country.

The conservative arguments are that markets and trade can't be guaranteed without military insurance around the world. The old left liberals believe the same thing and also think that US leadership is all that is holding parts of the world from a slide into barbarism.

My reasons for my opinion are simply that the economics don't make sense and the best laid plans of policy makers here tend to be wrong for other cultures, not matter how noble the initial intentions were. Best laid plans of mice and men...

[Druid]

No, I am saying that the people that he beat were even worse for the job than he was. I am saying that we don't have the choice of who runs for president and have to pick within certainly limitations.

If you knew a great deal about our country and government, you wouldn't have made such a broad statement. Don't quote an ideal as though it's reality.

Bush was not elected by a wide margin. Are you saying that if 45% of the country did NOT vote for him, that we are responsible for him being there? Don't make broad statements.

I think Kerry and especially Gore would have made far better Presidents than Bush. He is an ignorant man and I wouldn't hire him to wash my car! Anyway, he would probably just declare war on dirt.

False religious conviction and fear have been his (really Karl Rove's) tactics for getting a mostly ignorant public motivated to vote for such an unqualified President.

If the people were more informed they wouldn't have voted in this puppet for big oil and the NRA, so yes, I do hold the American public responsible for it's leadership, isn't that what a democracy is?

[kg0208]

I think Kerry and especially Gore would have made far better Presidents than Bush. He is an ignorant man and I wouldn't hire him to wash my car! Anyway, he would probably just declare war on dirt.

False religious conviction and fear have been his (really Karl Rove's) tactics for getting a mostly ignorant public motivated to vote for such an unqualified President.

If the people were more informed they wouldn't have voted in this puppet for big oil and the NRA, so yes, I do hold the American public responsible for it's leadership, isn't that what a democracy is?
And we are not a democracy. And if you knew so much, you would know that the American public DID vote Gore in. He lost because of an old system stil in place from the 1700's. He won the popular vote. Something we have no power to change.

So, you hold 100% of the population responsible for what 54% wanted? That's rich.....That's like saying all the judges were payed off in a bad decision when one of them got it completely right, but since he is still a judge, you lump him in with the other 2.

[Druid]

And we are not a democracy. And if you knew so much, you would know that the American public DID vote Gore in. He lost because of an old system stil in place from the 1700's. He won the popular vote. Something we have no power to change.

So, you hold 100% of the population responsible for what 54% wanted? That's rich.....That's like saying all the judges were payed off in a bad decision when one of them got it completely right, but since he is still a judge, you lump him in with the other 2.

I am aware olf the electoral college and how it operates, you are making huge assumption there mate that I am ignorant. This system is or should be known by all voting Americans and should either be changed or allowed for. I stant by my assertation.

[kg0208]

I am aware olf the electoral college and how it operates, you are making huge assumption there mate that I am ignorant. This system is or should be known by all voting Americans and should either be changed or allowed for. I stant by my assertation.
Stand by your assertion. But it is just as ignorant as the people you condemn. I stand by that assertion. We didn't elect Bush against Gore...and we cannot change the electoral college system ourselves. If we had the power to end such things, wouldn't it follow that we would have ended the Iraq war long ago? 70% of the country wants out of Iraq, but we can do nothing to remove ourselves.

If you know so much about the process (and I think you only know what you read) then you should know the limitations on the American public to control it's politics.

[Napuis]

I thought the American constitution was great and stuff.

I blame George Washington and all them cunts for the dire situation today.

[Odo]

I for my part think that all you guys should keep politcs out of this thread.
There are surely a lot of people who dislike the USA for political reasons,but I am quite sure that they are also a lot of people outside the USA who support the USA and its political agenda.
I for my part surely tend to be very critical of American fighters,their fight records,and the American media and experts who hype them.However,that doesnt mean that I dislike the USA or its inhabitants.
Quite the opposite I have always found American tourists to be more friendlier and polite than-say-Italian or French ones.
And the Americans I know are either quite religious and boring or crazy but very nice human beings.
Of course I am not American,and therefore I am not that interested in American's political agenda,but if forced I would surely favour the USA 's present government over a lot of governments in western europe.
Anyway! I am still very sceptical of american fighters.:yep

[sues2nd]

I thought the American constitution was great and stuff.

I blame George Washington and all them cunts for the dire situation today.

:patsch

You really are a moron, ya know that?

And again, people, go read that fuckin garbage...this is the kind of rubbish that motivated me to start this thread.

Grow up dude.
































Oh and that chicks hot in your avatar....off topic, but deserves mention.

[Smazz20]

:patsch

You really are a moron, ya know that?

And again, people, go read that fuckin garbage...this is the kind of rubbish that motivated me to start this thread.

Grow up dude.
































Oh and that chicks hot in your avatar....off topic, but deserves mention.

Lucy Pinder.............a great reason to be pro British!!!

google her. You know you want to:yep

[sues2nd]

Lucy Pinder.............a great reason to be pro British!!!

google her. You know you want to:yep

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Googling now!!!

:good

[C Money]

Oh and that chicks hot in your avatar....off topic, but deserves mention.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Top ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

I liked the avatar he had prior with that HOT ASS on the chic, was/is it the same girl??

[Chief_Second]

americans think they're the worldly power in many things and with hw boxing it's like the russians have stolen their baby

[Boro chris]

It's a tale as old as time: Bill Hicks put it very well - "You say you don't know where they got these weapons from: you armed them you fucker! They used to have rocks!"

:rofl :rofl :rofl "When we goinig in?"
"As soon as the cheque clears!"

[C Money]

americans think they're the worldly power in many things and with hw boxing it's like the russians have stolen their baby


Boxing's a sport that transcends all the BS of race and nationality!!!


May the best man win, those throwing BS based on nationality are the REAL CLOWNS!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm American and defend the honor of the great country I live in, but have no disrespect for great champions of any descent. What happens when the bell rings has exactly shit to do with race, creed, religion, or nationality. It has everything to do with the greatness of the individual human spirit and to that I'll ALWAYS SALUTE:yep

[sues2nd]

Boxing's a sport that transcends all the BS of race and nationality!!!


May the best man win, those throwing BS based on nationality are the REAL CLOWNS!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm American and defend the honor of the great country I live in, but have no disrespect for great champions of any descent. What happens when the bell rings has exactly shit to do with race, creed, religion, or nationality. It has everything to do with the greatness of the individual human spirit and to that I'll ALWAYS SALUTE:yep

:happy

[kg0208]

americans think they're the worldly power in many things and with hw boxing it's like the russians have stolen their baby

Preseason football kicks off this weekend. Americans don't even know what HW boxing is during football season, much less care about it to the extent that you just portrayed.

[C Money]

Preseason football kicks off this weekend. Americans don't even know what HW boxing is during football season, much less care about it to the extent that you just portrayed.

Much new found respect KG.......But I love my Steelers and I love Boxing, I'm so torn between the two, there's no room for any else, outside of wife and kid of COURSE:good


Sunday Aug 5th Pittsburgh vs New Orleans..........I'm salivating in anticipation... for a Pre-Season game no less!!!


I need a good ol toothless Jack Lambert Avatar:good

[kg0208]

Much new found respect KG.......But I love my Steelers and I love Boxing, I'm so torn between the two, there's no room for any else, outside of wife and kid of COURSE:good


Sunday Aug 5th Pittsburgh vs New Orleans..........I'm salivating in anticipation... for a Pre-Season game no less!!!


I need a good ol toothless Jack Lambert Avatar:good
If I have to pick, I'll pick football. But I don't have to lol, so I ain't gonna.

Being in Jax, I'm a Jags man. Hey, you guys hit the Colts high, we'll hit em low, and then we can worry about the rest later. Tired of those softies up there in Indy. Time to get back to defense wins championships!

[goldnarms]

Much new found respect KG.......But I love my Steelers and I love Boxing, I'm so torn between the two, there's no room for any else, outside of wife and kid of COURSE:good


Sunday Aug 5th Pittsburgh vs New Orleans..........I'm salivating in anticipation... for a Pre-Season game no less!!!


I need a good ol toothless Jack Lambert Avatar:good

Hey C Money..[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Hey was the MAN!:thumbsup

[sues2nd]

Preseason football kicks off this weekend. Americans don't even know what HW boxing is during football season, much less care about it to the extent that you just portrayed.

AMEN kg....

Once football starts, all other sports in america become second....a very distant second.

I love boxing, but not quite as much as I love the NFL!!!!

And if there is any doubt on who I cheer for, ya need to look no further than my location....

Oh and I started a NFL prediction thread in the lounge....go check it out.

:good

[C Money]

Hey C Money..[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Hey was the MAN!:thumbsup


YOU MUTHAFUKING ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:good :good :good

I attendeded Jack Lambert Foootball camps as a CHILD and his spirit and will was UNDENIABLE!!!!!!!!


The only thing missing??? Was a few CLASSIC, BRIAN SIPE KO's THAT always corresponded with Cleveland coming to town or Pittsbrugh going there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goldnarms???? Much fucking LOVE, thank you, and that girl in you're avatar had an incredibly BAD ASS!!! It rock's much as Jack DOES!!!

If Lambert reads these Board's?? He'll remember the chants of "DONT RETIRE" at camp.

Thank you, you just stirred emotion trhat has me ready to Oklahoma drill my living room tble and walls!!!!!!!!!

Fuck, i'm pumped!!!:good

Maybe, I'm eASY TO AGITATE, BUT jACK WOULD UNDERSTAND, THAT DOESNT ALWAY'S WORK ACCORDING TO PLAN!!!!!!!


Fuck, you seriously got me ready to smash shit, with no outlet!!!!
It's like love meeting HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[goldnarms]

YOU MUTHAFUKING ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:good :good :good

I attendeded Jack Lambert Foootball camps as a CHILD and his spirit and will was UNDENIABLE!!!!!!!!


The only thing missing??? Was a few CLASSIC, BRIAN SIPE KO's THAT always corresponded with Cleveland coming to town or Pittsbrugh going there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goldnarms???? Much fucking LOVE, thank you, and that girl in you're avatar had an incredibly BAD ASS!!! It rock's much as Jack DOES!!!

If Lambert reads these Board's?? He'll remember the chants of "DONT RETIRE" at camp.

Thank you, you just stirred emotion trhat has me ready to Oklahoma drill my living room tble and walls!!!!!!!!!

Fuck, i'm pumped!!!:good

Maybe, I'm eASY TO AGITATE, BUT jACK WOULD UNDERSTAND, THAT DOESNT ALWAY'S WORK ACCORDING TO PLAN!!!!!!!


Fuck, you seriously got me ready to smash shit, with no outlet!!!!
It's like love meeting HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!

My pleasure..he was my all time favorite also.

Damn, you met him in person. He was the man no doubt. Played middle linebacker at 6'4 and less than 220lbs. He was everything you would ever want in a football player and then some.

I saw he just lives a simple life on a ranch someplace now. He was a mans man no doubt.

[C Money]

delete

[C Money]

My pleasure..he was my all time favorite also.

Damn, you met him in person. He was the man no doubt. Played middle linebacker at 6'4 and less than 220lbs. He was everything you would ever want in a football player and then some.

I saw he just lives a simple life on a ranch someplace now. He was a mans man no doubt.

He was the EXMPLIFICATION of BAD ASS!!!!

A true, real to life FUCKING HERO!!!!!

Not one ounce of FEAR, much less second thought in the MUTHA FUKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'M SERIOUSLY READY to SMASH SHIT RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!


You just caused a domestic disturbance, and I THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!


Wish I could take the field vs Cleveland right NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!


UGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :happy :happy :happy

[C Money]

If I have to pick, I'll pick football. But I don't have to lol, so I ain't gonna.

Being in Jax, I'm a Jags man. Hey, you guys hit the Colts high, we'll hit em low, and then we can worry about the rest later. Tired of those softies up there in Indy. Time to get back to defense wins championships!

Funny, that Jacksonville is the Pittsburgh of the south!!!!!!!!!

In some unspoken reality, it explains the differences you and I have had!!!!!!!! I might note that i travelveled to Jacksonville on traing purposes with THE COMPANY and I find the irony between you and I almost unacceptable.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


STEELERS RUle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what else can I saY?? Any different and I'd be a FAG!!!