Henry Armstrong = fantastic fighter!

[Danny]

The more you closely look at Armstrong's record, the more evidence there is to suggest that he was very rare breed indeed when it comes to fighters.

For a long, long time I have always thought Ray Robinson was the best P4P in history, but the more I've looked into the career of Armstrong, I'm not so sure now. However, I'm in no doubt that Robinson & Armstrong are the two best P4P ever.

From 1937-1940 Armstrong went 57-1. That's amazing! Fighters of today are lucky if they have that amount of actual fights throughout their whole career, let alone over three years.

Henry was an extraordinary guy. He hwas diagnosed with having an enlarged heart & I guess that explains why he was very well conditioned.

[flamengo]

So right Danny.. Perpetual motion he was... I doubt a bad word can be said of Homicide Hank. A very rare gem in every aspect of form and credibility. The men encountered through his career resembles a record book in itself. Had a draw with Garcia been a victory, Its quite a proposition for himself to have been regarded higher than Robinson.

To pen his career record on paper, not withstanding the weight classes and quality of opponent, he remains well within the realms of top 5 P4P ever.

Winning Titles from Feather- welterweight from Oct 37-Aug 38..... Not much room for arguement... In the incorrenct order to boot..

[bladerunner]

anyone that doesnt have him in theyre top 5 of all time doesnt know shit about boxing.

[TommyV]

I have him at #4, just behind Robinson.

[PowerPuncher]

anyone that doesnt have him in theyre top 5 of all time doesnt know shit about boxing.

Robinson, Greb, Duran, Charles, Moore, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, RJJ, Mayweather, Marciano, ALi, Pepp, Langford, Louis all have fair cases to be above him. The 3 weight class thing and countless meaningless fights while avoiding Charles Burley doesn't give me the erection it gives other posters

[McGrain]

#4

[bladerunner]

Robinson, Greb, Duran, Charles, Moore, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, RJJ, Mayweather, Marciano, ALi, Pepp, Langford, Louis all have fair cases to be above him. The 3 weight class thing and countless meaningless fights while avoiding Charles Burley doesn't give me the erection it gives other posters
Mayweather,Marciano,Ali ahead of Armstrong give me a break.

[TommyV]

Robinson, Greb, Duran, Charles, Moore, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, RJJ, Mayweather, Marciano, ALi, Pepp, Langford, Louis all have fair cases to be above him. The 3 weight class thing and countless meaningless fights while avoiding Charles Burley doesn't give me the erection it gives other posters

Out of that list I would rank Langford, Greb and Robinson above him in that order, I think Charles and perhaps Duran have cases aswell, I can't see the case for having Moore, either Leonard, Ali, Louis or Pep above him though. And certainly not Jones Jr, Mayweather or Marciano.

[PowerPuncher]

Mayweather,Marciano,Ali ahead of Armstrong give me a break.

Why not if I see Mayweather better at 130-135, both fighters optimal weights?

Ali and Marciano beat far better opposition than Armstrong and Armstrong has poor losses close to prime

[bladerunner]

Why not if I see Mayweather better at 130-135, both fighters optimal weights?

Ali and Marciano beat far better opposition than Armstrong and Armstrong has poor losses close to prime
:patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch
please go check Armstrongs record before you post again.

[Minotauro]

I have him at 2 behind Robinson and just above Langford and Greb.

[PowerPuncher]

Out of that list I would rank Langford, Greb and Robinson above him in that order, I think Charles and perhaps Duran have cases aswell, I can't see the case for having Moore, either Leonard, Ali, Louis or Pep above him though. And certainly not Jones Jr, Mayweather or Marciano.

When it comes to Armstrong you need to compare who else fought in the same weight classes and contrast. It is very useful to compare Duran, Mayweather, B Leonard and Whitaker (I forgot to include him), Pepp because they fought in the same weight classes - Mayweather and Duran in the exact same classes. I really don't see Armstrong as the most impressive from this group and see Duran, Whitaker, Mayweather, Pepp and B Leonard beating him at relevant/fair/prime 128-140 catch weights. So why would a reasonable person rate Armstrong P4P higher than similar sized fighters who have the beating of him?

[PowerPuncher]

:patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch
please go check Armstrongs record before you post again.

I did it was missing the name 'Charles Burley', plenty of bums on his resume though

[bladerunner]

I did it was missing the name 'Charles Burley', plenty of bums on his resume though
then you should mention SRR has hes missing Burley in resume too.

[PowerPuncher]

then you should mention SRR has hes missing Burley in resume too.

I do and it seriously hurts SRR's legacy for me

[flamengo]

Gentlemen.....Mayweather??? please gain perspective... Armstrong defended his Welterweight Title 18 times in 2 1/2 years.... 5 times alone in Oct 39.... This is not a record to be compared to Floyd now or at a later date.. A title fight is a title fight... The career of Armstrong is something to be considered unsurpassed as far as activity.....

[bladerunner]

Gentlemen.....Mayweather??? please gain perspective... Armstrong defended his Welterweight Title 18 times in 2 1/2 years.... 5 times alone in Oct 39.... This is not a record to be compared to Floyd now or at a later date.. A title fight is a title fight... The career of Armstrong is something to be considered unsurpassed as far as activity.....
exactly he fought more in year than Mayweather in his entire career.

he held titles in three weight division and couldve been four but he drew with Garcia for the middleweight title in a fight manny think he shouldve won.

holds the record for modt defenses of the welterweight title.

beat guys like Bummy,Davis,Sammy Angott,Lew Jenkins,Fritzie Zivic,Ceferino Garcia,Lou Ambers,Petey Sarron,Tippy Larkin,Willie Joyce,Leo Rodak,Barney Ross,Midget Wolgast,Bennie Bass,Chalky Wright etc.

and some of the guys he mention as bums have more than 100 victories.

[sweet_scientist]

:patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch
please go check Armstrongs record before you post again.

Forget records, go check him out against Jose Luis Castillo. We don't even have to get into records to prove that Mayweather is inferior - which of course he is in a resume sense and it's not even worth debating.

[bladerunner]

Forget records, go check him out against Jose Luis Castillo. We don't even have to get into records to prove that Mayweather is inferior - which of course he is in a resume sense and it's not even worth debating.
no doubt this thing isnt even debatable.

[flamengo]

70 years from today...The question will be posted. .."Floyd who..????" In ten years, the on going questions will legitimize the record of Mayweather, when spoken in terms of greatness.... as it did with Clay. Only Clay himself was forthminded enough to know his own place in prosperity.... as foolish as it seemd in the day.

[Robbi]

Forget records, go check him out against Jose Luis Castillo. We don't even have to get into records to prove that Mayweather is inferior - which of course he is in a resume sense and it's not even worth debating.

Give the guy the benefit of the doubt. He as good as used one arm against Castilio as he had a torn rotator cuff.

[sweet_scientist]

Give the guy the benefit of the doubt. He as good as used one arm against Castilio as he had a torn rotator cuff.

He didn't show me anything in the rematch to suggest that he takes Armstrong at 135.

[Jack Dempsey]

There is a great piece on Armstrong on the main page if you wanna check it out

I have Armstrong at #2

[TommyV]

When it comes to Armstrong you need to compare who else fought in the same weight classes and contrast. It is very useful to compare Duran, Mayweather, B Leonard and Whitaker (I forgot to include him), Pepp because they fought in the same weight classes - Mayweather and Duran in the exact same classes. I really don't see Armstrong as the most impressive from this group and see Duran, Whitaker, Mayweather, Pepp and B Leonard beating him at relevant/fair/prime 128-140 catch weights. So why would a reasonable person rate Armstrong P4P higher than similar sized fighters who have the beating of him?

Based on achievement.

[Loewe]

Robinson, Greb, Duran, Charles, Moore, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, RJJ, Mayweather, Marciano, ALi, Pepp, Langford, Louis all have fair cases to be above him. The 3 weight class thing and countless meaningless fights while avoiding Charles Burley doesn't give me the erection it gives other posters
RJJ? Mayweather? :lol:

[PowerPuncher]

Gentlemen.....Mayweather??? please gain perspective... Armstrong defended his Welterweight Title 18 times in 2 1/2 years.... 5 times alone in Oct 39.... This is not a record to be compared to Floyd now or at a later date.. A title fight is a title fight... The career of Armstrong is something to be considered unsurpassed as far as activity.....

1. Defended against WHO though, I can't see anyone on his wins column who has a shot of beating Mayweather, Mayweather too has 20 World Title fights on his ledger.

2. You can argue the lineage of his Welterweight crown went out the window when he lost at lightweight

3. He lost the Welterweight title to Zivic and twice went life and death with Ambers at lightweight. Neither look particularly impressive on film

4. He avoided the top fighters like Burley, Williams and Cocoa Kid. Therefore not proving himself the top Welter, much like Mayweather hasn't faced Cotto/Margarito/Williams - 2 Williams in 2 generations avoided :lol:

[PowerPuncher]

Forget records, go check him out against Jose Luis Castillo. We don't even have to get into records to prove that Mayweather is inferior - which of course he is in a resume sense and it's not even worth debating.

Yes because Armstrong only had 21 LOSSES

[Minotauro]

Yes because Armstrong only had 21 LOSSES

So that’s what happen when you fight as long and as often as someone like Armstrong did. Charles has 25 losses, Robinson has 19 losses, Greb has 21, Ike Williams has 24, Walker has 22, Walcott has 32, Moore has 23 and Langford has 47. It doesn't stop them from being all time great if your basing Mayweather ahead of Armstrong because he has less loses then your ranking holds no weight. Armstrong has a much much better resume achieved more and his greatness is undeniable just because he didn't fight Burley does not change that. And it was Henry's management that stopped that fight from happening, not him.

And as far as Cocoa Kid as great as he was he was also very inconsistent during Armstrong's welterweight reign he was stopped by Johnny Jackson who had only one pro fight at the time granted Kid was still better then the guys Armstrong defended his crown against. And it wasn't like Armstrong was scared of these fighters he took on Beau Jack and Sugar Ray Robinson when he was way past his best.

[PowerPuncher]

So that’s what happen when you fight as long and as often as someone like Armstrong did. Charles has 25 losses, Robinson has 19 losses, Greb has 21, Ike Williams has 24, Walker has 22, Walcott has 32, Moore has 23 and Langford has 47. It doesn't stop them from being all time great if your basing Mayweather ahead of Armstrong because he has less loses then your ranking holds no weight. Armstrong has a much much better resume achieved more and his greatness is undeniable just because he didn't fight Burley does not change that. And it was Henry's management that stopped that fight from happening, not him.

And as far as Cocoa Kid as great as he was he was also very inconsistent during Armstrong's welterweight reign he was stopped by Johnny Jackson who had only one pro fight at the time granted Kid was still better then the guys Armstrong defended his crown against. And it wasn't like Armstrong was scared of these fighters he took on Beau Jack and Sugar Ray Robinson when he was way past his best.

Ofcourse every fighter will have losses, but why should Mayweather be ragged on for Castillo and Armstrong's failings be ignored? Armstrong did lose in his prime

Fighting 20fights a year no longer makes economical sense, it doesn't make today's fighters worse because they fight loss. Quantity does not equal Quality. Armstrong did fight all comers past his prime, BUT thats when he wasn't champ and had nothing to protect, ie he didn't have to risk losing the belt. NOTE I'm not saying Armstrong ducked anyone, perhaps his management steered him clear of a few bouts

Would Armstrong be worse if he fought today, only had 40-50 fights and fought the same standard from 126-147?

[heehoo]

Mayweather doesn't even come close to comparing to Armstrong.

The difference between them is night and day.

Mayweather's more of a technical boxer, Armstrong a swarmer. Think an old-time version of Aaron Pryor - constantly swinging and charging for a full 15 rounds.

Armstrong had well over 100 more fights than Mayweather, as well.

[Sweet Pea]

Robinson, Greb, Duran, Charles, Moore, Ray Leonard, Benny Leonard, RJJ, Mayweather, Marciano, ALi, Pepp, Langford, Louis all have fair cases to be above him. The 3 weight class thing and countless meaningless fights while avoiding Charles Burley doesn't give me the erection it gives other postersYet you think higher of Mayweather despite accomplishing far less in his weight classes and ducking a larger amount of fighters?

[PowerPuncher]

Yet you think higher of Mayweather despite accomplishing far less in his weight classes and ducking a larger amount of fighters?

Both avoided a few fights, avoiding high risk low reward fights happened in Armstrongs time aswell as today but the myth is he took on all comers, which he did not.

I don't think Armstrong beat anyone Mayweather wouldn't beat. I also don't think his long list of Welter title defenses mean that much because most aren't that good.

Suppose Mayweather fought 20 times a year, fought Gatti/Ukral/Brussel level fighters every 2 weeks, would that impress you? Thats basically what Armstrong was doing

I see Mayweather as a more talented fighter than Armstrong, who I rate as great but flawed and less complete

[sweet_scientist]

Ofcourse every fighter will have losses, but why should Mayweather be ragged on for Castillo and Armstrong's failings be ignored? Armstrong did lose in his prime

Fighting 20fights a year no longer makes economical sense, it doesn't make today's fighters worse because they fight loss. Quantity does not equal Quality. Armstrong did fight all comers past his prime, BUT thats when he wasn't champ and had nothing to protect, ie he didn't have to risk losing the belt. NOTE I'm not saying Armstrong ducked anyone, perhaps his management steered him clear of a few bouts

Would Armstrong be worse if he fought today, only had 40-50 fights and fought the same standard from 126-147?

If Armstrong fought who Floyd fought he wouldn't have a loss or a close fight.

Armstrong lost to Lou Ambers, but Lou Ambers is a much better fighter than Castillo and Armstrong only lost because he was robbed and had a heap of points deducted from him. There was no controversy as to who most people think won that fight, unlike the Castilllo fight.

And Armstrong's Dela Hoya fight was the Barney Ross fight, and he didn't scrape by with a split decision, he put the mother of all beat downs on Ross.

If Mayweather was fighting as frequently as Armstrong was, I can see Floyd losing to the likes of Ambers (legitimately), Angott, Zivic, Montanez, Larkin and Jack and I'm just talking about a prime Mayweather, not one that hanged around past his used-by date like Hank did.

[sweet_scientist]

Both avoided a few fights, avoiding high risk low reward fights happened in Armstrongs time aswell as today but the myth is he took on all comers, which he did not.

I don't think Armstrong beat anyone Mayweather wouldn't beat. I also don't think his long list of Welter title defenses mean that much because most aren't that good.

Suppose Mayweather fought 20 times a year, fought Gatti/Ukral/Brussel level fighters every 2 weeks, would that impress you? Thats basically what Armstrong was doing

I see Mayweather as a more talented fighter than Armstrong, who I rate as great but flawed and less complete

You can mention the fighters Armstrong didn't face but then when you look at the ones he did face and really when you put them up against the ones Mayweather faced, it becomes a laughing exercise.

There's no more parity in saying both Armstrong and Mayweather failed to fight some fighters as there is in saying Usain Bolt and Tyson Gay are both sprinters.

[PowerPuncher]

1. If Armstrong fought who Floyd fought he wouldn't have a loss or a close fight.

2. Armstrong lost to Lou Ambers, but Lou Ambers is a much better fighter than Castillo and Armstrong only lost because he was robbed and had a heap of points deducted from him. There was no controversy as to who most people think won that fight, unlike the Castilllo fight.

3. And Armstrong's Dela Hoya fight was the Barney Ross fight, and he didn't scrape by with a split decision, he put the mother of all beat downs on Ross.

4. If Mayweather was fighting as frequently as Armstrong was, I can see Floyd losing to the likes of Ambers (legitimately), Angott, Zivic, Montanez, Larkin and Jack and I'm just talking about a prime Mayweather, not one that hanged around past his used-by date like Hank did.

1. Disagree, Delahoya that Mayweather faced beats Armstrong who just gives away too much height and size to a Delahoya who weighs 160 on fight night and combined skill, power and speed that would be too much for the much smaller Armstrong who wouldn't have the defense to cope.

Corrales, Castillo, Judah, Hatton all have decent shots to beat Armstrong, the man lost to worse fighters

2. Ambers does not look better than Castillo on film and Castillo weighs 150-155 on fight night giving a much larger proposition. Its a myth that Mayweather-Castillo 1 was a gift anyway, Castillo didn't do anything for the first 5rounds and said as much himself after that he needed to start faster.

3. Barney Ross was a none punching natural lightweight with a 27% stoppage percentage. He happened to hold the Welterweight crown but is as weak a champ at Welter as Judah or Baldomir.

Armstrong did not suffer a massive size advantage in this fight that Mayweather regularly suffered. Corrales at 130 had a greater size advantage over Floyd than Ross had over Armstrong, remember Corrales put on 17lbs after weigh ins, Floyd put on 2-4lbs.

Mayweather would have beaten Ross pretty easily

4. Supposition, the facts are in his prime Armstrong lost to:

Baby Arizmendi (twice)
Casanova
Davey Abad
Joe Conde
Ritchie Fontaine
Tony Chavez
Lou Ambers
Zivic (twice)

Yes he did fight allot, but some of those names are pretty weak, but I suppose if your fighting allot you have off nights. Armstrong was supposedly past his prime when he lost to Zivic, if that so why does he beat Zivic down the road?

[sweet_scientist]

1. Disagree, Delahoya that Mayweather faced beats Armstrong who just gives away too much height and size to a Delahoya who weighs 160 on fight night and combined skill, power and speed that would be too much for the much smaller Armstrong who wouldn't have the defense to cope.

That DLH was no better than Ceferino Garcia. I think Armstrong can stop him actually. DLH basically gassed in a stinker of a fight against Mayweather. How's he going to go with Hank on his ass all night?

Corrales, Castillo, Judah, Hatton all have decent shots to beat Armstrong, the man lost to worse fighters

Like who and like when? Assuming Armstorng ain't shot, all those fights are one sided beatdowns for him. LMFAO@losing to Judah.


2. Ambers does not look better than Castillo on film and Castillo weighs 150-155 on fight night giving a much larger proposition. Its a myth that Mayweather-Castillo 1 was a gift anyway, Castillo didn't do anything for the first 5rounds and said as much himself after that he needed to start faster.

Ambers does look better than Castillo on film imo. Better speed of hand and foot, more agressive and tough as nails.

I agree that it's a myth that Castillo-Mayweather is a gift. It could havegone either way. It's also a myth that most had Mayweather winning that fight. Has he ever come up as the consensus winner on a poll conducted on that fight?

3. Barney Ross was a none punching natural lightweight with a 27% stoppage percentage. He happened to hold the Welterweight crown but is as weak a champ at Welter as Judah or Baldomir.

Agree, because Judah and Baldomir would of course beat Jimmy McLarnin (twice), Ceferino Garica (thrice), Frankie Klick, Henry Woods and Chuck Woods.

One of the worst calls ever PP.

Armstrong did not suffer a massive size advantage in this fight that Mayweather regularly suffered. Corrales at 130 had a greater size advantage over Floyd than Ross had over Armstrong, remember Corrales put on 17lbs after weigh ins, Floyd put on 2-4lbs.

What do you know about what weight Armstrong's opponents gained by fight time to make such a comment?

Mayweather would have beaten Ross pretty easily

I doubt it.

4. Supposition, the facts are in his prime Armstrong lost to:

Baby Arizmendi (twice)
Casanova
Davey Abad
Joe Conde
Ritchie Fontaine
Tony Chavez
Lou Ambers
Zivic (twice)

You're adding in fights clearly not part of Armstrong's prime and some of them were bullshit losses on top of it.

Yes he did fight allot, but some of those names are pretty weak, but I suppose if your fighting allot you have off nights. Armstrong was supposedly past his prime when he lost to Zivic, if that so why does he beat Zivic down the road?

Same reason Sugar Ray Robinson beat Fullmer. Greats can find a way to win sometimes. Doesn't mean they are not past their primes.

[PowerPuncher]

1. That DLH was no better than Ceferino Garcia. I think Armstrong can stop him actually. DLH basically gassed in a stinker of a fight against Mayweather. How's he going to go with Hank on his ass all night?

2. Like who and like when? Assuming Armstorng ain't shot, all those fights are one sided beatdowns for him. LMFAO@losing to Judah.

3. Ambers does look better than Castillo on film imo. Better speed of hand and foot, more agressive and tough as nails.

4. I agree that it's a myth that Castillo-Mayweather is a gift. It could havegone either way. It's also a myth that most had Mayweather winning that fight. Has he ever come up as the consensus winner on a poll conducted on that fight?

5. Agree, because Judah and Baldomir would of course beat Jimmy McLarnin (twice), Ceferino Garica (thrice), Frankie Klick, Henry Woods and Chuck Woods.

One of the worst calls ever PP.

6. What do you know about what weight Armstrong's opponents gained by fight time to make such a comment?

7. I doubt it.

8. You're adding in fights clearly not part of Armstrong's prime and some of them were bullshit losses on top of it.

9. Same reason Sugar Ray Robinson beat Fullmer. Greats can find a way to win sometimes. Doesn't mean they are not past their primes.

1. Delahoya certainly achieved more than Garcia and is stylistically more problematic, in that he's rangy, bigger, faster hands and is more likely to stick and move. :lol: at a 133lb Armstrong stopping a 160lb+ Delahoya, Armstrong isn't even a power puncher he's a pressure fighter. Allot is made of Garcia having a Middleweight claim, but Garcia is ofcourse a natural welter himself. Credit where credits due a great fighter none the less

2. Corrales, Castillo and Hatton would have the same advantages over Armstrong that Zivic did. Usually when 2 pressure fighters meet the bigger, stronger, harder hitting 1 wins out, like it or not those 3 all have those qualities over the smaller Armstrong. Judahs speed and power combination is something Armstrong never saw until SRR who reportedly carried him.

3. Castillo was certainly more aggressive than Ambers, Ambers was faster but most were faster than Castillo

4. I honestly doubt most General Forum posters have watched PBF-JLC1 - the first time I saw both PBF-JLC fights I assumed the second fight was the robbery after having it closer as I actually had the first 8-4 to Mayweather. I've scored it 6-6, then 7-5 on second viewing, Castillo gave away too many early rounds but won his rounds bigger.

5. I'll reiterate that both Judah and Ross were weaker champs. Judah at his best would beat a plentitude of fighters from those times, watch Judah at 140 his workrate was far better. Against Mayweather he was very impressive. Judah is the biggest waste of talent in reason years because he has more raw athletic ability than Mayweather. I can't see Barney Ross outboxing Spinks, can you?

6. Weight Draining and adding 10-20lbs is a new phenomenon. In Modern times they have weigh ins 36hours prior to the fight, in Armstrong's time they had it a few hours prior to the fight. Having that extra 36hours means your not weakened when you lose 15lbs of water weight and have time to add it back on. Thats why Castillo/Corrales/Hatton weighed in around 155+ but weighing in at 135-140. I see it particularly impressive that Mayweather fought at the weight he weighed in giving up 10-15lbs, much like Armstrong did at Welter upwards. Mayweather was fighting a welterweight in his 130lb fight against COrrales, a light middle against Castillo, a middleweight against Hatton and a super middleweight against Delahoya.

7. What tools has Ross got to bother Mayweather? What does he do better? I see Mayweather as doing EVERYTHING better than Ross and winning every round a a result

8. These losses were taken starting on his 33rd fight, 3years as a pro and 10months before his first title (3years prior to his 3world titles, which is surely his exact prime?), at any rate the losses are all near prime

Baby Arizmendi (twice)
Casanova
Davey Abad
Joe Conde
Ritchie Fontaine
Tony Chavez
Lou Ambers
Zivic (twice)

But again if your fighting every 2 weeks a loss is more likely. However I see Armstrong as far more beatable and less complete than Duran, Mayweather and Pepp. Pity Armstrong never fought Pepp, not calling that a duck it would have been a nice piece of history though

9. Some of Armstrongs best wins came after his losses to Zivic. Its hard to say how much the heavy schedule took out of Armstrong over his 25fight 2year championship stint but allot of his fights were little more than sparring matches or walk overs. The quantity does make it look more impressive than what it was because the quality of some opponents was pretty poor although some would be gruelling fights no doubt. Does that make him significantly past prime? Its hard to stay? Would Zivic beat a prime Armstrong? Possibly. Would Burley beat a prime Armstrong? Yes

[TommyV]

You think Armstrong loses to Judah, Hatton and Castillo?

Lmfao. :rofl

[bladerunner]

You think Armstrong loses to Judah, Hatton and Castillo?

Lmfao. :rofl
the guy is a clown ,he should have your avatar.

[Loewe]

the guy is a clown ,he should have your avatar.

Nah, he is just very biased towards certain fighters, just like quite a few are on here ;) , in his case those two are Jones and Mayweather. The most time he´s quite knowledgable.

[Minotauro]

1. Disagree, Delahoya that Mayweather faced beats Armstrong who just gives away too much height and size to a Delahoya who weighs 160 on fight night and combined skill, power and speed that would be too much for the much smaller Armstrong who wouldn't have the defense to cope.

Corrales, Castillo, Judah, Hatton all have decent shots to beat Armstrong, the man lost to worse fighters

2. Ambers does not look better than Castillo on film and Castillo weighs 150-155 on fight night giving a much larger proposition. Its a myth that Mayweather-Castillo 1 was a gift anyway, Castillo didn't do anything for the first 5rounds and said as much himself after that he needed to start faster.

3. Barney Ross was a none punching natural lightweight with a 27% stoppage percentage. He happened to hold the Welterweight crown but is as weak a champ at Welter as Judah or Baldomir.

Armstrong did not suffer a massive size advantage in this fight that Mayweather regularly suffered. Corrales at 130 had a greater size advantage over Floyd than Ross had over Armstrong, remember Corrales put on 17lbs after weigh ins, Floyd put on 2-4lbs.

Mayweather would have beaten Ross pretty easily

4. Supposition, the facts are in his prime Armstrong lost to:

Baby Arizmendi (twice)
Casanova
Davey Abad
Joe Conde
Ritchie Fontaine
Tony Chavez
Lou Ambers
Zivic (twice)

Yes he did fight allot, but some of those names are pretty weak, but I suppose if your fighting allot you have off nights. Armstrong was supposedly past his prime when he lost to Zivic, if that so why does he beat Zivic down the road?

Did you seriously compare Barney Ross all time great who a top 15 p4p or at the very least top 20 p4p to Judah (who has beaten nobody) and Baldomir? That the dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum.

Armstrong gave up weight all the time look at his welterweight reign he averagely gave up 10lbs per fight not mention what his opponents cut. And you make a big deal about Ross being a natural lightweight well Armstrong was a natural featherweight. And he looks much better then Castillo on film he has better stamina, chin, punch output, defence and doesn't cut as easily and cuts the ring of better.

Zivic was the real deal don't let his inconsistency cloud your judgement he gave everyone a hard time and has some quality wins. Ray Robinson said he knew he was going to make it after he beat Zivic.

Fact is Mayweather although very talented and a great fighter in his own right does not compare to Armstrong in terms of greatest or p4p ranking. Armstrong resume is so much better look at the names he beat:

Baby Arizmendi
Benny Bass
Petey Sarron (ATG featherweight)
Chalky Wright
Barney Ross (greater then Mayweather)
Lou Ambers (ATG lightweight)
Ceferino Garcia
Pedro Montanez
Lew Jenkins (great lightweight)
Fritzie Zivic
Willie Joyce
Sammy Angott (great lightweight)
Bummy Davis

Now compare that to the guys Mayweather has beaten.