**What was Lacy's demise.....**

[Orishaman]

Jeff LeftHook Lacy, he look like the real deal and the sure thing until he ran into Joe Calzaghe, he got outboxed, KD, humiliated and embarrased in national TV...he was a beaten man by the fight half-way.....so what was his demise.....his over confidence...his arrogance....his inexperinece against that type of competition, or was he simple made up boxer, that we saw his flaws but choose to oversee them.....for what he was -one trick pony

[tays001]

his over confidence and his skill was his down fall hopefully he can regroup

[Andrey]

THERE WAS NO DEMISE.

He is as good as people made him out to be.
Calzaghe is just THAT much better and BAAAAAD style for a slower, shorter, slugger like Lacy.

Calzaghe ain't no one's targer or punching bag, but LACY ain't bad, Calzaghe just happens to be good. \\
\


Andrey

[Lampley]

Jeff LeftHook Lacy, he look like the real deal and the sure thing until he ran into Joe Calzaghe, he got outboxed, KD, humiliated and embarrased in national TV...he was a beaten man by the fight half-way.....so what was his demise.....his over confidence...his arrogance....his inexperinece against that type of competition, or was he simple made up boxer, that we saw his flaws but choose to oversee them.....for what he was -one trick pony

That fight was one of my worst boxing experiences ever. It would have been so much better for Jeff if he hadn't fought with so much heart. Idiot Birmingham should have done him a favor after 8 or 9 rounds, but he failed to protect his fighter.

I think it was a combination of the factors you cite. Lacy wasn't as good as many of us wanted to believe, Calzaghe was better, it was a terrible style matchup (Lacy possessing none of the attributes to give a Calzaghe problems), and neither Jeff nor anyone on his team saw it coming.

I wonder if it would have been so bad if Roach had trained Jeff for the fight. I'm confident he'd have at least developed some alternative strategies.

[Axe]

Jeff LeftHook Lacy, he look like the real deal and the sure thing until he ran into Joe Calzaghe, he got outboxed, KD, humiliated and embarrased in national TV...he was a beaten man by the fight half-way.....so what was his demise.....his over confidence...his arrogance....his inexperinece against that type of competition, or was he simple made up boxer, that we saw his flaws but choose to oversee them.....for what he was -one trick pony

Lacy was simply proven to be not that good. Dawson and Winky were schooling him in training day in day out. Chad is friends with him and he even admitted to not being "that surprised" about Lacy getting badly outboxed. Credit Calzaghe for taking the fight, but Lacy's flaws were there and would have been exposed sooner or later by a competent boxer.

[Cookie]

I think he was totally underprepared for what he was going up against. He might well have trained hard, but all we heard was how he was going to knock Calzaghe out easily and that really showed. He looked like a guy that genuinely believed he would steamroll his opponent and then just shattered when the magnitude of the challenge was realised.

I mean he couldn't do a single thing in there. Could barely throw a punch. That isn't normal. I think he got spooked out.

[BigEars]

People think Lacy is done because of the Tsypko fight but what I keep point out(because the vast majority of people forget) is that he was probably on his way to stopping Tsypko before his shoulder went . He was rocking his head back with jobs and won the first 2 rounds easily.........and then the shoulder went and we all know what happened .

Calzaghe was on another level to him but then again he may be on another level to all the guys at 168/175 , we'll see after the Kessler fight and the possible Hopkins v Calzaghe fight that could happen should Calzaghe win .

[Dekkers]

Jeff LeftHook Lacy, he look like the real deal and the sure thing until he ran into Joe Calzaghe, he got outboxed, KD, humiliated and embarrased in national TV...he was a beaten man by the fight half-way.....so what was his demise.....his over confidence...his arrogance....his inexperinece against that type of competition, or was he simple made up boxer, that we saw his flaws but choose to oversee them.....for what he was -one trick pony
I think it was his overconfidence, and a lot of that confidence was put into his power. He's fought better fights than the one he fought against Joe, but it looked like he built up his body a lot in training as though he was building up his punch, but in the end it just made him stiffer and slower.

When it came to fight time, he loaded up shots too much and was frustrated by Calzaghe early, it prevented him from getting relaxed and trying to not to telegraph punches and throw some decent combos. This lead to Joe taking whatever self-confidence Jeff had over the course of the fight, Lacy was never a great technical boxer and didn't have much of a 'plan b' since his power wasn't carrying him over the line (or atleast he probably felt that way, he was chasing a big punch the whole fight).

[Orishaman]

That fight was one of my worst boxing experiences ever. It would have been so much better for Jeff if he hadn't fought with so much heart. Idiot Birmingham should have done him a favor after 8 or 9 rounds, but he failed to protect his fighter.

I think it was a combination of the factors you cite. Lacy wasn't as good as many of us wanted to believe, Calzaghe was better, it was a terrible style matchup (Lacy possessing none of the attributes to give a Calzaghe problems), and neither Jeff nor anyone on his team saw it coming.

I wonder if it would have been so bad if Roach had trained Jeff for the fight. I'm confident he'd have at least developed some alternative strategies.

Birminghan was at fault for Lacy becoming a broken boxer after the 6th rounds, he was done and he should ahve recognized that any firther punishement will affect Lacy permanetly....I am sure that if Roach was on the corner, if he taught that a plan B would be worthless, he would have shown mercy and threw the towel....of that I am sure...Birminghan was and is just as arrogant as Lacy was agaisnt Joe C.....Birmingham still training and Lacy was left with permanent mental scars

[DaHead242]

Jeff was to green and fat to outgunned. Not to mention he had never fought in front of a crowd that large, noisy, and awesome. theres no demise for Jeff Lacy, he can still make a lot of noise in boxing and it will be interesting to see how he recovers from surgery. The man is all heart and I have a shit load of respect for Jeff.

[brooklyn1550]

He was tailor made for Joe and didn't have an answer to him. Against Tsypko, he caught a bad break. He's a good fighter and I hope he recovers.

[Orishaman]

He was tailor made for Joe and didn't have an answer to him. Against Tsypko, he caught a bad break. He's a good fighter and I hope he recovers.


He won;t , he is damaged good as far as I can see , the Tsypko fight didn;t help things either...it shows his total inhability to deal with southpaws

[paulfv]

That fight was one of my worst boxing experiences ever...

...neither Jeff nor anyone on his team saw it coming.


Let me just add to that last line: "and neither did all the Lacy nuthuggers and the Calzaghe haters."

Which is what made it one of my BEST boxing experiences ever. I never appreciated how good JC was until that abject humiliation he put on Lacy, the 'SMW Tyson.' The Lacy fans were talking so much it was unbelievable. And all it did was piss JC off, which he used to fuel his 'masterclass.'

It was a joy to come to ESB the day after that fight and read the approximately 20 new and distinct articles and comments about the fight. There was no hedging, no 'wiggle room,' no controversies, etc. The Lacy fans either had to 'man-up' or be laughed out of existence. Many did, some still tried to claim Lacy was 'considered nobody' or some such garbage before the fight.

The fight should have been stopped, and I remember how Team Lacy was spinning their decision to let it continue, with things like 'Lacy showed he's a warrior.' Great, so did both David Reid and Vargas against Trinidad. They also were never the same again after their fights with Tito.

Lacy looks to have been similarly 'ruined' against JC. I guess time will tell.

[brooklyn1550]

He won;t , he is damaged good as far as I can see , the Tsypko fight didn;t help things either...it shows his total inhability to deal with southpaws

You may be right about being "damaged goods" and while southpaws do trouble, but I thought he tore his rotator cuff in the Tsypko fight. In the first few rounds, he was on top of his game and landing hard, crisp straight right hands.

[Lampley]

Birminghan was at fault for Lacy becoming a broken boxer after the 6th rounds, he was done and he should ahve recognized that any firther punishement will affect Lacy permanetly....I am sure that if Roach was on the corner, if he taught that a plan B would be worthless, he would have shown mercy and threw the towel....of that I am sure...Birminghan was and is just as arrogant as Lacy was agaisnt Joe C.....Birmingham still training and Lacy was left with permanent mental scars

I've always thought Birmingham is an asshole, but that fight made me despise him.

Consider Clinton Woods. He starts getting picked apart by Roy Jones, and before it gets any worse his people step into the ring. Sure enough, they build him back up and he's been going strong ever since.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid Jeff is damaged goods. His last fight proved that his chin has been softened up, and you have to wonder about his confidence. Now that he's undergone major shoulder surgery, it's tough imagining him ever getting another belt. I hope I'm wrong and am still a fan, though.

[Lampley]

Let me just add to that last line: "and neither did all the Lacy nuthuggers and the Calzaghe haters."

Which is what made it one of my BEST boxing experiences ever. I never appreciated how good JC was until that abject humiliation he put on Lacy, the 'SMW Tyson.' The Lacy fans were talking so much it was unbelievable. And all it did was piss JC off, which he used to fuel his 'masterclass.'

It was a joy to come to ESB the day after that fight and read the approximately 20 new and distinct articles and comments about the fight. There was no hedging, no 'wiggle room,' no controversies, etc. The Lacy fans either had to 'man-up' or be laughed out of existence. Many did, some still tried to claim Lacy was 'considered nobody' or some such garbage before the fight.

The fight should have been stopped, and I remember how Team Lacy was spinning their decision to let it continue, with things like 'Lacy showed he's a warrior.' Great, so did both David Reid and Vargas against Trinidad. They also were never the same again after their fights with Tito.

Lacy looks to have been similarly 'ruined' against JC. I guess time will tell.

True and I agree with many points, but you can be a fan without being a nuthugger. He was an accomplished guy who had not just beaten some good people, but destroyed them.

I remember calling the fight 60/40 in Lacy's favor, based on his youth and the fact that Calzaghe would box well but eventually be tempted to trade. At that point, I thought he probably would stop or hurt Joe and take over. When Joe stood his ground and simply outslugged Jeff, I was shocked and horrified.

He kicked the shit out of Jeff fighting Jeff's fight.

[DaHead242]

He won;t , he is damaged good as far as I can see , the Tsypko fight didn;t help things either...it shows his total inhability to deal with southpaws

He tore his rotator cuff in the 2nd round and won a decision. He fought 10 rounds with an injury that made many fighters quit including Vitali Klitschko. He beat a top 20 SM with one arm.

[Orishaman]

He tore his rotator cuff in the 2nd round and won a decision. He fought 10 rounds with an injury that made many fighters quit including Vitali Klitschko. He beat a top 20 SM with one arm.

Lacy is gone.......

[paulfv]

When Joe stood his ground and simply outslugged Jeff, I was shocked...
You certainly weren't alone in that. I'm not sure anyone on the West side of "The Pond" thought that what happened would happen, or even could happen. I was part of that contingent who did not see that coming.

There was so much 'heat' around the fight, for so many reasons: Euro vs American, two undefeated fighters who looked to be at the top of their games, brawler vs boxer-puncher, and all the race stuff. Even for a big fight, the hype was off the chain, no matter what any (former) Lacy fan tries to say now about how 'little-known' Lacy was before the Calzaghe throttling.

You just don't see beatdown shutouts like that of highly-rated challengers every day. But they do happen. I'm thinking Margarito-Cintron.

What made JL-JC so remarkable was the incredible amount of hype and interest and assuredness of each guys' supporters that 'their guy' would win. If anything, I think the JC fans were more nervous than were Lacy's supporters.

The fight ending up like a boxing version of the Spurs-Cavs NBA Finals, was, I think, the main reason for the huge amount of separate articles on the contest the next day on ESB. Or, at least, that's what I want to believe.

[PH|LLA]

his demise was a torn rotator cuff against Tsypko

[sst]

I thought Lacy looked bad against Omar. He was getting hit with combinations almost every time Omar threw them. He is just too easy to hit and his power is over rated but still pretty good. He may not be able to come back after the one sided loss to Joe. IMO he has done nothing since.

[WhataRock]

Tsypko was a bad guy to come back against in the first place.
Jeff lost that fight, not by a wide margin but clearly, though he showed a lot of heart to win some rounds and be competitve in others with a bad injury.

Jeff just wasnt that good, people wanted him to be because he is fun to watch but he wasnt as good as the top dogs.

He will be back though and probably will win another title at some stage, also Im sure he will be in some memorable scraps before he retires.

[nickthegreek]

True and I agree with many points, but you can be a fan without being a nuthugger. He was an accomplished guy who had not just beaten some good people, but destroyed them.

I remember calling the fight 60/40 in Lacy's favor, based on his youth and the fact that Calzaghe would box well but eventually be tempted to trade. At that point, I thought he probably would stop or hurt Joe and take over. When Joe stood his ground and simply outslugged Jeff, I was shocked and horrified.

He kicked the shit out of Jeff fighting Jeff's fight.

:lol: That line in bold had me giggling like a little shoolgirl.

Joe Calzaghe is the real deal and he proved a lot of people wrong that night.

He will prove a lot of people wrong again come Calzaghe/Kessler.

[Vantage_West]

People think Lacy is done because of the Tsypko fight but what I keep point out(because the vast majority of people forget) is that he was probably on his way to stopping Tsypko before his shoulder went . He was rocking his head back with jobs and won the first 2 rounds easily.........and then the shoulder went and we all know what happened .

Calzaghe was on another level to him but then again he may be on another level to all the guys at 168/175 , we'll see after the Kessler fight and the possible Hopkins v Calzaghe fight that could happen should Calzaghe win .
yeah it wasnt a demise it's when your left arm is broken...then you have got problems... people act like lacy was just as badly beaten but it wasnt he use his jab and used his head movements and used his skills to move and weave.

but when your rotator cuff goes your fucked you cant use the front arm .his two best weapons are gone the jab nd the hook.

[Smazz20]

Boxing is very fickle most of the times. Lacy has enough talent and ability to get back in the mix at SM. With the exception of the top 2 he could beat anyone at 168. I wouldn't be surprised to see him fight the winner of Green-Manfredo next.

[sonny73]

Complete lack of a plan B...when he saw Calzaghe just take his shots without so much as blink he mentally did not know what to do.I don't Calzaghe HAD to stand and trade with Lacy he just likes to do that sometimes if he is either bored or feels that the other guy cannot hurt him.He really can fight either boxing or brawling,one of the few I've seen who can do that at the very top level

[AmazingHook]

Jeff is NOT done. Let's see what he looks like when he comes back later this year

[China_hand_Joe]

Lacy put on a good performance, he was throwing a fair few punches, Calzaghe just put on the greatest boxing performance ever seen -fullstop-

[Sister Sledge]

That beating was kind of like the beating David Reid took from Felix Trinidad. Tito ruined Reid, but I think Lacy is made of sturner stuff than Reid. Both Reed and Lacy were too green to fight such supreme fighters, and they both suffered the same fate. Lacy does have a lot of power, but when you are fighting elite fighters, raw power will only get you so far. If he had a top flight trainer, he could become a more complete fighter and win a championship or two.

[1lehudson]

Tsypko was a bad guy to come back against in the first place.
Jeff lost that fight, not by a wide margin but clearly, though he showed a lot of heart to win some rounds and be competitve in others with a bad injury.

Jeff just wasnt that good, people wanted him to be because he is fun to watch but he wasnt as good as the top dogs.

He will be back though and probably will win another title at some stage, also Im sure he will be in some memorable scraps before he retires.If he clearly lost the fight then most people would agree with you and that just isnt the case. many had Lacy winning that fight.




I dont think that lacy is gone, but his downfall in that fight with joe was a couple of things. ONE he didnt respect Joe, saying stuff like Joe will win a few rounds before I catch him with some big shots. TWO Joes handspeed was faster then I think Lacy thought. THREE the shoulder thing was something that Lacy had to work though his entire career, vs lesser fighters it wasnt enough to stop Lacy. FOUR he wasnt prepared, once he didnt hurt Joe he had no plan B. FIVE It was David Reid, Fernando Vargas all over again. Lacy just wasnt in a point in his career that he could take on an elite fighter, and do well.

[Cruiser1]

When Boxing Monthly covered the fight it gave an account of what was going on behind the scenes. It can be summed up in one sentence: Jeff could not handle the pressure.

[Brickhaus]

He won;t , he is damaged good as far as I can see , the Tsypko fight didn;t help things either...it shows his total inhability to deal with southpaws

Dude, he tore his rotator cuff in the 3rd round.

[marting]

I don't think he was prepared for what faced him in England. Calzaghe is a great fighter and Lacy wasn't really as great as the media made him out to be. Spectacular k.o. artists are the most likely to be overrated by the boxing public. One need only to just look at the disdain on this site for tactical fighters and the ridiculous comparitive importance given to sensational knockouts.

There were also some signs in Lacy's camp that things were not all they were cracked up to be. I'd spoken to some people that saw Wright make Lacy foolish in some sparring. Lacy has also mentioned some personal issues at the time but I believe boxers sometimes have some nonsense going on their lives and it's up to them to make sure they're mentally prepared when the bell rings.

He just wasn't ready for that fight.

[WhataRock]

If he clearly lost the fight then most people would agree with you and that just isnt the case. many had Lacy winning that fight.




I dont think that lacy is gone, but his downfall in that fight with joe was a couple of things. ONE he didnt respect Joe, saying stuff like Joe will win a few rounds before I catch him with some big shots. TWO Joes handspeed was faster then I think Lacy thought. THREE the shoulder thing was something that Lacy had to work though his entire career, vs lesser fighters it wasnt enough to stop Lacy. FOUR he wasnt prepared, once he didnt hurt Joe he had no plan B. FIVE It was David Reid, Fernando Vargas all over again. Lacy just wasnt in a point in his career that he could take on an elite fighter, and do well.

Maybe your just listening to the people you want to because most of the people who's opinion I value saw that fight for Tsypko. A lot of Polls on sites not dominated by americans had it for Tsypko.
It wasnt the hardest fight to score, Lacy dominated early, Tsypko finished stronger down the stretch.

Not the worst decision ever, I just feel Tsypko won more rounds. I think one judge gave the last the Lacy even though Tsypko clearly landed more clean, effective punches and that was the difference between a draw and a win.

[Leeroy]

Joe Calzaghe

[1lehudson]

Maybe your just listening to the people you want to because most of the people who's opinion I value saw that fight for Tsypko. A lot of Polls on sites not dominated by americans had it for Tsypko.
Are you for real??? You say that I was listening to the people I wanted then in the same sentance you say that????:huh

[teetop]

Complete lack of a plan B...when he saw Calzaghe just take his shots without so much as blink he mentally did not know what to do.I don't Calzaghe HAD to stand and trade with Lacy he just likes to do that sometimes if he is either bored or feels that the other guy cannot hurt him.He really can fight either boxing or brawling,one of the few I've seen who can do that at the very top level

After al bernstein said 30 some seconds into the fight that "Joe calzaghe got jeff lacy's attention w/ that uppercut" Lacy already looked
like he was in over his head. When joe said in his corner that lacy couldn't punch for shit, I knew there was no way joe was going to lose
this fight. It was rape from that point on.

[WhataRock]

Are you for real??? You say that I was listening to the people I wanted then in the same sentance you say that????:huh

Not saying your opinion aint valid but these are guys who have consistenly been very objective, learned and just plain right. They usually dont let bias get in the way, and are fairly emotionally detatched from fighters even the ones they like.

These guys dont agree on everything, I dont agree with everything they say but they argue points with logic and reasoning. Most of these guys argued that Tsypko was the better at achieving the 4 criteria you are supposed to score a round with and in more rounds.

Maybe your a Lacy fan who converses with Lacy fans thats what I meant. I know a lot of people thought Lacy won but for the wrong reasons if you ask me. A lot seem to give Lacy points for fighting with an injury, which is admirable and deserves respect but has nothing to do with scoring a fight.

[PrideOfWales]

Jeff Lacy's demise was everything after somebody said "Just sign here Jeff and you'll be the undisputed SMW champion..."

[dragosuhail]

is birmingham the trainer with the cocky new yorker/mobster look (one eye brow raised and a semi permanent smirk/grin) oh and always chews bubble gum?

if that's him i HATE him and not because of the lacy fight. i've seen him before in fights where there was no problems but for some reason there are people in life that just annoy the shit outta you. and he is one of them to me.

i forget the fight but i remember he got all macho when the opponent came over after the lost and said he believed he won and wanted a rematch and birmingham if it's the same bloke just puffed his chest out and did the "grease" impersonation and got into the fighter's face. no class and i feel he's the frustrated type. never did any good as a boxer so gets all full of it as a trainer. the lacy fight just confirmed what i suspected about the bloke all along.

im amazed lacy is still loyal to him. then again, maybe the trainer is different off camera but i doubt it.

[WhataRock]

1) Plain right depends on a lot of thing, but to say you're plain right because you're impartial and unbiased stinks of arrogance. Impartiality allows you to accept others opinions, so being plain "right" isn't consistent with that.

2) You accept that they do let bias get in the way on occasion, which would suggest that they do have bias generally. Goes to discrediting their impartiality.

3) As opposed to someone that argues with a spatula and a hammer? Most people argue with logic and reasoning, it just depends if they argue with the same reasoning as you. Hopkins/Taylor I is a good example. the case, with logic and reasoning, could be made for either fighter winning - it just depends on your particular application of logic and reasoning. You seem to be suggesting that anyone who scored for Lacy in that fight must have been emotionally biased towards Jeff, but by the same token, they could be emotionally biased to Tsypko.

4) This is open to debate anyway, because it's just their interpretation of the match and they weren't ringside, which makes things look totally different. The problem with "group" scoring is that one person will often sway the others with a convincing argumnet rather than everyone being on equal terms and having their own opinion (you can say that this IS the case, but that just DOES NOT HAPPEN). If, however, say three experts are seperated from each other, with noone to debate a point with, they will usually come to their own conclusion, WITHOUT bias. Unless they just favour the fighter, but the scores will usually reveal that.

Let's look at the three scores:

judge: Michael Pernick 95-95
judge: Paul Herman 96-94
judge: Mark Streisand 96-94

Now, a little analysis - one of the judges scores a draw and the other two concur that the fight was close. It could have gone either way. The judges won't have known Lacy was injured at that point, yet still felt he did just enough to pull off the win.

I don't see the argument that Tyspko was robbed or received an unfair decision: he was just unlucky it didn't go his way.

Hmmm.. good hustle.

Tyspko still won though.

[Grabonator]

THERE WAS NO DEMISE.

He is as good as people made him out to be.
Calzaghe is just THAT much better and BAAAAAD style for a slower, shorter, slugger like Lacy.

Calzaghe ain't no one's targer or punching bag, but LACY ain't bad, Calzaghe just happens to be good. \\
\


Andrey

Absolutely right man!

[dwilson]

Fighting the greatest boxer on the planet and getting destroyed was his demise.

[warrior85]

overconfidence,underestimating calzaghe&having an unrealistic team around him who after 9 or 10 rnds of domination still believed he would land that 1 punch to lay out joe that they knew he needed from rnd 3 onwards,theres no way to take a 1000 punches&it not effect you,he'll never be jeff lacy the destroyer again&i doubt he can come back,which is a shame bcoz he showed real heart to keep going in that fight even tho it was clear he wasnt going to win