'69-'71 Frazier vs Jamaica Foreman, and the referee ....

[guilalah]

'69-'71 Frazier vs Jamaica ('73) Foreman, and the referee ....

...... is a real take-no-shit red ass when it comes to pushing off. :fire


What are Smoking Joe's chances?

I'll still favor Foreman, but something on the order of 7-3, maybe not even that much.

[Ted Spoon]

It's one of those fights that just about impossible to gauge, guilalah.

For one Foreman made it look easy, but by the same virtue, Frazier was not mentally there and his body, forget the weight, looked positively soft when directly compared to his 'peaked' form in FOTC.

Frazier would have performed better had he gained perspective of Foreman's potential menace beforehand (and if he had less miles on the clock), but perhaps Ali held the omniscient point when he comically explained to 'Parkinson' that Frazier got up to mindlessly walk back into trouble; in short, that he could not adapt.

Pushing is the feature issue. Foreman was able to get optimum leverage and space for his outrageous swinging in between almost every junction, so had he been penalized from the first push, Frazier may seek salvage easier.

Simply because Foreman did make it look all so easy, historical perspective is inclined to side with big George, but there is much that can be said in defence of Frazier.

At the very least, a finely tuned Frazier, with a strict referee, gives Foreman a good spot of trouble, something he was unable to even scrap at in their title fight.

[Longhhorn71]

Frazier was always complimentary of George.

I think his statement that "George hits a ton" pretty well sums it up.

Kinda like nuclear war and the Anti-Ballistic Missiles, .....one ICBM will always get thru, and then it's curtains.

[anut]

STILL NO CHANCE.............STYLES MAKE FIGHTS.:smoke:smoke:smoke

[lfsdan]

They could fight 100 times and George Foreman wins every time.

[groove]

frazier doesn't match up well against foreman at anytime. they have a chance but it would turn in to a slugfest like Lyle and i like foreman against that style everytime. and lyle could bang. here's a clip of him at amateur :-

725YVQyul6s

[Maxmomer]

I think if Frazier was prime, in the best shape of his life, had a perfect gameplan, put on the best performance of his career, and had the right ref he could possibly win.

[round15]

They could fight 100 times and George Foreman wins every time.

1973 Jamaica Frazier could fight Foreman 100 times and likely gets knocked out 100 times.

1976 post Manilla Frazier could fight Foreman 100 times and likely gets knocked out 100 times.

1967- 1970 Frazier could fight Foreman 100 times and I'd say Joe probably wins 50 or more of those fights, with 10 or 20 by mid to late round KO.

Foreman was devastating in Jamaica 1973, but he's not beating the prime 1967 - 1970 Frazier with the relative ease he showed. This version of Frazier would be on Foreman faster than any other opponent he would have faced. There's no doubting that Foreman catches prime Frazier early in the fight and has him down once or twice.

Prime Joe Frazier was a much different animal that was much harder to hit in the late 60's. There's no way Foreman would have been able to absorb Frazier's body work for more than five rounds without slowing down significantly. Ali barely hit Foreman to the body in 1974 and he had nothing left after the seventh round. What makes people think Foreman would have the same steam on his punches going into the middle rounds against a prime Frazier?

Too much focus is made on Frazier's poor Jamaica performance without looking objectively at who the dominant champion was after Ali's exile. It didn't help either that Mercante was letting Foreman push, grab, and shove Frazier's shoulders aside to get separation. That is an illegal tactic that should have resulted in a point deduction, but like I said before, Mercante probably wanted to make sure the ultimate decision was out of his hands.

[guilalah]

Thank you very much for the replies.

Foreman will always be a brutal force for Frazier to advance into, and Joe will have to be at his best to have an outside chance.

Getting one's distance matters a lot in boxing, and the shove off really helped George put Joe in a bad place. Without the shoves Joe might have not taken so much punishment early on; if Joe gets mid-fight in one piece, eorges strength might begin to lessen, letting Joe do more work inside.

It seems to me that George was a more concise puncher against Frazier than against a lot of his other opponents. Probably respect for Frazier inclined George to be more of a boxer.

[round15]

Thank you very much for the replies.

Foreman will always be a brutal force for Frazier to advance into, and Joe will have to be at his best to have an outside chance.

Getting one's distance matters a lot in boxing, and the shove off really helped George put Joe in a bad place. Without the shoves Joe might have not taken so much punishment early on; if Joe gets mid-fight in one piece, eorges strength might begin to lessen, letting Joe do more work inside.

It seems to me that George was a more concise puncher against Frazier than against a lot of his other opponents. Probably respect for Frazier inclined George to be more of a boxer.

Joe Frazier is the only fighter Foreman ever admitted to being seriously scared of. He didn't believe he could beat him in 1973 and didn't consider him a "scenic rest stop" in 1976, according to his book.

There is a reason why Foreman avoided the immediate rematch clause with Frazier after beating him in 1973. In 1976 Foreman didn't want to fight Frazier, but realized another shot at Ali meant that he'd have to fight him again.

[mr. magoo]

Who's Jamaica Foreman?

[Danny]

This is one of them match-ups where-by to win, Frazier has box a near perfect fight. Frazier has two major problems though. A) Joe was a slow starter, where-as Foreman was probably the opposite. B) Throughout his career, even at his best, Joe would have to take a shot to land one, something which is not adviseable, especially against a fighter like Foreman.

I just think this is a case of styles. Foreman was all wrong for Frazier IMO.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Who's Jamaica Foreman?



:lol:


Sounds like George's illegitimate daughter.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Joe Frazier is the only fighter Foreman ever admitted to being seriously scared of. He didn't believe he could beat him in 1973 and didn't consider him a "scenic rest stop" in 1976, according to his book.

There is a reason why Foreman avoided the immediate rematch clause with Frazier after beating him in 1973. In 1976 Foreman didn't want to fight Frazier, but realized another shot at Ali meant that he'd have to fight him again.


Jesus, I wouldn't have liked to have seen those fights if he wasn't scared of Joe. :hey

[mr. magoo]

:lol:


Sounds like George's illegitimate daughter.


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[My dinner with Conteh]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:D


Jamaica Foreman KO2 Jacqui Frazier-Hyde

[ThinBlack]

'69-'71 Frazier vs Jamaica ('73) Foreman, and the referee ....

...... is a real take-no-shit red ass when it comes to pushing off. :fire


What are Smoking Joe's chances?

I'll still favor Foreman, but something on the order of 7-3, maybe not even that much.

Frazier would possibly score an upset eleventh round TKO, If he can survive the early onslaught.

[Stevie G]

'69-'71 Frazier vs Jamaica ('73) Foreman, and the referee ....

...... is a real take-no-shit red ass when it comes to pushing off. :fire


What are Smoking Joe's chances?

I'll still favor Foreman, but something on the order of 7-3, maybe not even that much.
I'd still say Foreman. His style was a nightmare for Frazier. Would last a bit longer,maybe.

[mr. magoo]

I'd still say Foreman. His style was a nightmare for Frazier.

it really is that simple...

I won't disagree that Frazier wasn't 100% by 1973, but some have tried to devise the notion that he was utterly shot, which is drastically taking things in the other direction.. he was perhaps only 7 or 8 lbs above his best fight weight, 29 years of age, the undefeated reigning champion and maybe a year and half removed from the best performance of his career.. In addition, he would go on after the Foreman loss to give Muhammad Ali two more life and death battles, and duplicate his wins over Quarry and Ellis. Now could a 1969 or 70' Frazier last more than two rounds and land a few more shots? My answer is "probably." But to completely turn the tables from getting pasted in two rounds while still being near prime to winning the fight all together on the basis of being " a little sharper" isn't going to happen.