Cleveland Williams v George Foreman

[mcvey]

Does the" BIg Cat" have a live shot here?

[lfsdan]

Pre- .357 magnum I give him a decent shot. He was a very good fighter and big puncher before that incident.

[Muchmoore]

Big Cat was one of the fastest punchers ever. His power/speed would seriously give him a very good chance to knock Foreman down here, Foreman didn't have the strongest chin in his first career.

Foreman is also slow, and has a leaky defense which would enable Williams to be able to tee off on him. Williams was able to land big shots and actually hurt Liston in both fights, the only man to do this to prime Liston. Liston had much superior defense than Foreman, a great, hard jab to stop people from getting close. He is also more durable, and Williams broke his nose and had him stunned, Williams would at least have similar results against Foreman.

I see Foreman winning by KO in 4. It looks somewhat like the Lyle fight except Foreman doesn't come as close to being stopped. His edge in power and chin would be the difference here and he'd climb off the canvas once to finish him off.

[the cobra]

I don't think he has too much of a chance. Ultimately comes down to Foreman's superior chin, whether George goes down or not, he stops Big Cat prime for prime every time.

[Longhhorn71]

Cleve was a good man.

Liston said Cleve could hit as hard as he could, he just
couldn't take that kind of abuse as long as Liston could.

One of George's wild swings would eventually connect and end
a "pier six" brawl.

[tylerrcurtis]

they both could hit hard so that edge goes to no one
cleve was clearly faster
but foreman just mauls you into a coma
and the factor that determines it is chin and that is hands down how big george wins this fight

[AREA 53]

When Cleve Williams went after Liston in their 1st fight for the first two rounds i found him very impressive (albeit he was ko'd in the 3rd )
- But i think George has the strengh and Durability to come through Cleve's Quicker Earlier Attack, and gain a similer quick KO.

Put Cleve in with bic Mac Foster and/or Earnie Shavers and he might get the quick win (Foster's win against Old Cleve is not worth Much)

[Holmes' Jab]

Big Cat was one of the fastest punchers ever. His power/speed would seriously give him a very good chance to knock Foreman down here, Foreman didn't have the strongest chin in his first career.

Foreman is also slow, and has a leaky defense which would enable Williams to be able to tee off on him. Williams was able to land big shots and actually hurt Liston in both fights, the only man to do this to prime Liston. Liston had much superior defense than Foreman, a great, hard jab to stop people from getting close. He is also more durable, and Williams broke his nose and had him stunned, Williams would at least have similar results against Foreman.

I see Foreman winning by KO in 4. It looks somewhat like the Lyle fight except Foreman doesn't come as close to being stopped. His edge in power and chin would be the difference here and he'd climb off the canvas once to finish him off.


Yeah, very well put.

[radianttwilight]

Williams was kind of an enigma in his prime. I don't think it's inconceivable that he could be able to finish what Lyle started.

I'd feel fairly comfortable betting on a Foreman KO before 6, though.

[Chris Warren]

Big Cat was one of the fastest punchers ever. His power/speed would seriously give him a very good chance to knock Foreman down here, Foreman didn't have the strongest chin in his first career.

Foreman is also slow, and has a leaky defense which would enable Williams to be able to tee off on him. Williams was able to land big shots and actually hurt Liston in both fights, the only man to do this to prime Liston. Liston had much superior defense than Foreman, a great, hard jab to stop people from getting close. He is also more durable, and Williams broke his nose and had him stunned, Williams would at least have similar results against Foreman.

I see Foreman winning by KO in 4. It looks somewhat like the Lyle fight except Foreman doesn't come as close to being stopped. His edge in power and chin would be the difference here and he'd climb off the canvas once to finish him off.


MuchMoore nobody chins gets better with age. It gets worse. Being knocked down by Lyle only shows how hard Lyle punched not how bad Foremans chin was.

Ali has stated numerous times that Foreman punched alot harder and was alot stronger than Sonny Liston. Sonny Liston knocked out Big Cat Williams in a few rounds and so would Foreman.

[SuzieQ49]

Ali has stated numerous times that Foreman punched alot harder and was alot stronger than Sonny Liston

I disagree, Foreman was not stronger than Liston and did not puncher harder. George Foreman said Sonny Liston was the only man to ever make him back up in the ring, and that was an old Liston. Liston has much better defense and skills than foreman, so if Big Cat was able to penetrate Listons gaurd, he will defintley find Foremans Chin. Williams punches just as hard as lyle, except he had faster handspeed than lyle and moved around the ring better. I think big cat has a live shot here, although I would ultimatley pick foreman to come out standing at the end of the slugfest.

Sonny Liston knocked out Big Cat Williams in a few rounds and so would Foreman.

Liston was alot better than foreman. There I said it.

[markedwardscott]

pre-shooting Williams would have a chance but probably Foreman would win.

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[Longhhorn71]

Rumor was Liston used "hot" gloves in his second fight with Williams.

[Xplosive]

Williams doesnt see round 3.

[djanders]

Big George, by KO...in my opinion. :bbb

[mr. magoo]

Mismatch.

[SuzieQ49]

Mismatch


Would you call Liston vs Williams a mismatch? Didn't appear like that to me when Williams broke Liston's nose and stunned him in both fights.

[Russell]

Rumor was Liston used "hot" gloves in his second fight with Williams.

Wow, seriously?

Where'd you here that from?

[SuzieQ49]

Rumor had it he used it against Folley and Machen too. Guess what? Its all just rumors that have been exaggerated with sensationalism over the years. Liston had the goods inside his fists, he did not need to place goods outside his fists. Get it?

[red cobra]

Foreman would have gotten him out of there in 1 or 2 easily, ala Norton.

[Bummy Davis]

A younger vesion of Big Cat could be trouble for George...George never really fought any punchers and Cleveland prime was close to Ron Lyle and could possibly hit harder....so it could be a tough fight for George the Shot and shot up version of Williams that fought Ali would go out quick

[mcvey]

Wow, seriously?

Where'd you here that from?
Russell is the rumour KING,Dempsey was a professional Rapist ,Foster beat the shit out of Ali in amateur fights etc .
Russell NEVER provides any proof but, there you go, its ok to traduce a man's name from the safety of a key board . I really despise that kind of behaviour .Its like me calling a fit young guy like yourself out for a row,from the safe distance of my PC,I have a word for it CRAVEN.

[Seamus]

No chance at all. Williams is insanely overrated. It was damn near a right of passage to KO him in the 50's-60's. Looks good in a photo but has such major flaws he really would have no chance in any post 1920 era.

[ChrisPontius]

.Its like me calling a fit young guy like yourself out for a row

Let's not pretend you haven't done that. ;)

[ChrisPontius]

I think Williams stands a better chance here than most do. He could hit quite a bit, and Foreman during his prime, rarely took punches from someone like Williams. Lyle is the only comparison and that was hardly a mismatch.

[MrMarvel]

Foreman was a much more powerful puncher than Liston. I don't think Williams makes it out of the second round--if he makes it out of the first.

[mcvey]

Let's not pretend you haven't done that. ;)

I have several times ,and on occasion caught a cold,the thing is if you are up for the talk ,you have to be willing to walk the walk.
I just vehemently dislike callow boys airily slagging off great Champs with unfounded hearsay.I know you dont rate Dempsey,but if I said " Smokin Joe" liked little boys ,you might want to know where I got my info from , fair enough?

[ChrisPontius]

I have several times ,and on occasion caught a cold,the thing is if you are up for the talk ,you have to be willing to walk the walk.
I just vehemently dislike callow boys airily slagging off great Champs with unfounded hearsay.I know you dont rate Dempsey,but if I said " Smokin Joe" liked little boys ,you might want to know where I got my info from , fair enough?

Well in your case i know that you know the whereabouts of that business since your Thai trip. :shock:

[SuzieQ49]

Foreman was a much more powerful puncher than Liston. .


How so? I think liston was more powerful

[Arka]

That Dempsey stuff was mentioned in passing in Momma's Boy a biography of Lennox Lewis-that Dempsey pimped his first wife and that he broke in virgins at the brothel he bounced at.

I'd be interested in the sources of those rumours.

[mcvey]

That Dempsey stuff was mentioned in passing in Momma's Boy a biography of Lennox Lewis-that Dempsey pimped his first wife and that he broke in virgins at the brothel he bounced at.

I'd be interested in the sources of those rumours.

Well, see Russell for details.

[DocDevil]

Three of my favorites (Liston,Williams and Foreman) being mentioned,so really enjoyed this thread.As far as Williams beating George,Wlliams could hit like a Missouri mule, as a young prime fighter,he was only stopped three times in his career before the shooting,twice by prime Liston,and a pretty green Williams,got kayoed by Bob Satterfield.After the shooting he was never the same.Physically imposing,I think the Big Cat versus Foreman would be a teriffic draw,but George would knock him out after they traded bombs.Earnie Shavers and Williams,ah,leave the women and children at home,only prediction you could make,is this one don't go the limit.