Jack Johnson 2 title reigns puts him in top 10

[SuzieQ49]

Part I


I can't believe how underated johnson gets by some on this forum. Accomplishments wise he undisputedly rates a top 10 heavyweight of all time.

Let me ask you......How many heavyweight champions have TWO long title reigns? I can only think of one other, muhammad ali who is a consensous top 2 heavyweight of all time. But Jack Johnson is the other one!

His coloured Heavyweight title Reign stretched half a decade, and was filled with the best most dangerous contenders out there....His coloured heavyweight title reign alone warrants him a high ranking all time. It was filled with dominance, consistency, and longevitity.....Combine that with his linear title reign which streteched another 7 years and you have 23 title defenses and 15 years as title reigning champion!!!


Take a look

1902

Oct 21 Frank Childs ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles,Ca TK 12
Johnson wins Colored Heavyweight Championship of the World


1903

Feb 3 "Denver" Ed Martin ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles, Ca W 20

Feb 27 Sam McVea ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles, Ca W 20

May 11 Joe Butler ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa KO 3

Oct 27 Sam McVea ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles, Ca W 20

1904 Feb 16 Black Bill (Claude Brooks) ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa NW 6

Apr 22 Sam McVea ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) San Francisco, Ca KO 20

Jun 2 Frank Childs ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Chicago, Il W 6

Oct 18 "Denver" Ed Martin ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles, Ca KO 2

1905 May 3 Black Bill (Claude Brooks) ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa KO 4

May 9 Walter Johnson Philadelphia, Pa KO 3

Nov 25 Joe Jeannette ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa LF 2

Dec 1 "Young" Peter Jackson ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Baltimore, Md D 12

Dec 2 Joe Jeannette ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa NW 6

1906Jan 16 Joe Jeannette ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) New York, NY W 3

Mar 14 Joe Jeannette ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Baltimore, Md W 15

Apr 19 Black Bill (Claude Brooks) ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Wilkes-Barre, Pa KO 6

Apr 26 Sam Langford ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Chelsea, Ma W 15

1907Feb 19 Peter Felix ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Sydney, NSW, Aus KO 1

Now excluding the Jenette Foul TKO loss, thats an amazing 17 title defenses!!! The coloured heavyweight championship at the time was arguebably tougher than the linear belt which was being passed around by midget white dudes. Johnson managing 17 title defenses against the best the division had to offer is nothing short of astounding. Combine his 8 linear heavyweight title defenses and you have a total of 23 total defenses!!! The coloure heavyweight title is where johnson did all his work. the linear heavyweight title though a bit unimpressive, was only the icing on the cake.


Part II............

[SuzieQ49]

Part II


I hear that some of his opposition has been critisized for fighting inexperienced smaller foes during his coloured reign...lets take a look



- Joe Jenette. Johnson fought him many times, fight reports show even has jenette got more experienced the more times they fought, johnson continued to get the better of jenette. in 1906 jenette sported a 8-7-1 record...johnson got a decision over him. Now larry holmes is often praised for beating tim witherspoon. but at 8-7-1 jenette sported one more pro fight going into the johnson fight than spoon had going into the holmes fight.



- Sam Mcvea, he was young around 18-20 years old during the years they fought but johnson was young and at 185lb had not physically reached his peak either and was sporting mcvea 25lb!!! but 210lb Mcvea proved he was an early bloomer by blasting away top contender denver ed martin. at 8-2 he was a novice, but no one other than johnson could beat him at the time. mcvea didnt just lose, johnson DOMINATED him...gave him 3 one sided beatings so badly mcvea REFUSED to ever get in the ring with jack again.



- Denver Ed Martin was a top rated heavyweight contender. At 6'6 200lb with a very long reach, he was the ernie terell of his era. There is film of him sparring gus ruhlin who was training to fight jeffries, and martin toyed with him handled ruhlin with ease. it made you wonder why ruhlin was getting to fight jeff instead of martin. Martin recorded alot of very good wins during his career and had the best footwork of his era, with top notch jab and defensive skills. Jack Johnson dominated martin each time they met.



- Sam Langford. Yes we all know he weighed 156lb. but jack johnson only weighed 185lb.....thats a 31lb advantage. James Jeffries gets huge credit for beating Bob Fitzimmons....but Jeffries sported 33lb and 45lb advantages over fitzimmons!!! Jeffries also sported 32lb advantage over tom sharkey who is viewed as a top win, and jeffries sported 52lb weight advantage on joe choynski!! So johnson deserves alot more credit than he gets. take note johnson DOMINATED langford, knocked him down twice...langford admitted it was the only fight in his long career he was ever thoroughly beaten.







Here is a fact for you



Jack Johnson has the best NAMES of two different eras on his resume, whether they were in there prime or not, fact of the matter is HE FOUGHT AND BEAT them, its better to have them on your resume than not.



Jeffries/Fitzimmons two best names different era


Jenette/Langford/Mcvey best during his era



Johnsons record against the following men? 9-0!!!!!!

[McGrain]

Good stuff SQ. Mendoza will be along in a minute. Here's a link to an interesting Cox article on McVey that indicates what you are saying about Sam is accuate:


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He did very well against the best he fought, was a hated black man in the toughest of era's to be that very thing, he can't have been lucky/well matched all the time. That is just not possible.

[Holmes' Jab]

Excellent thread. I scanned through the jist of it, am off for home now but will read the entire article later on. Johnson is a cert top 10 in my book, he's in bottom half of mine (at #9) but you could definitely argue for higher.

[McGrain]

I have him at #6, I think.

[mcvey]

Part I


I can't believe how underated johnson gets by some on this forum. Accomplishments wise he undisputedly rates a top 10 heavyweight of all time.

Let me ask you......How many heavyweight champions have TWO long title reigns? I can only think of one other, muhammad ali who is a consensous top 2 heavyweight of all time. But Jack Johnson is the other one!

His coloured Heavyweight title Reign stretched half a decade, and was filled with the best most dangerous contenders out there....His coloured heavyweight title reign alone warrants him a high ranking all time. It was filled with dominance, consistency, and longevitity.....Combine that with his linear title reign which streteched another 7 years and you have 23 title defenses and 15 years as title reigning champion!!!


Take a look

1902

Oct 21 Frank Childs ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles,Ca TK 12
Johnson wins Colored Heavyweight Championship of the World


1903

Feb 3 "Denver" Ed Martin ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles, Ca W 20

Feb 27 Sam McVea ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles, Ca W 20

May 11 Joe Butler ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa KO 3

Oct 27 Sam McVea ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles, Ca W 20

1904 Feb 16 Black Bill (Claude Brooks) ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa NW 6

Apr 22 Sam McVea ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) San Francisco, Ca KO 20

Jun 2 Frank Childs ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Chicago, Il W 6

Oct 18 "Denver" Ed Martin ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Los Angeles, Ca KO 2

1905 May 3 Black Bill (Claude Brooks) ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa KO 4

May 9 Walter Johnson Philadelphia, Pa KO 3

Nov 25 Joe Jeannette ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa LF 2

Dec 1 "Young" Peter Jackson ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Baltimore, Md D 12

Dec 2 Joe Jeannette ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Philadelphia, Pa ND 6

1906Jan 16 Joe Jeannette ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) New York, NY W 3

Mar 14 Joe Jeannette ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Baltimore, Md W 15

Apr 19 Black Bill (Claude Brooks) ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Wilkes-Barre, Pa KO 6

Apr 26 Sam Langford ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Chelsea, Ma W 15

1907Feb 19 Peter Felix ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) Sydney, NSW, Aus KO 1

Now excluding the Jenette Foul TKO loss, thats an amazing 17 title defenses!!! The coloured heavyweight championship at the time was arguebably tougher than the linear belt which was being passed around by midget white dudes. Johnson managing 17 title defenses against the best the division had to offer is nothing short of astounding. Combine his 8 linear heavyweight title defenses and you have a total of 23 total defenses!!! The coloure heavyweight title is where johnson did all his work. the linear heavyweight title though a bit unimpressive, was only the icing on the cake.


Part II............
The Doctor will be gunning for you now Suzie! Great article!

[Loewe]

One of my favourite hws. Great read and so true! I personally have him in my Tier 2 at hw alongside Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes and Jim Jeffries which would rank them betwen 4 and 7.

[Minotauro]

Yeh I agree his resume is excellent in fact I think his coloured title reign is more impressive then most top heavys titles reign and then when you add his heavyweight title reign he has to rank top 10 at least probably top 5. I have him at 3.

[punchy]

I agree Johnson is underated here he was a great defensive boxer and really this is what wins the big fights, H2H he matches up well with a Louis or Ali much more so than a Jeffries or Dempsey.

[Mendoza]

The Doctor will be gunning for you now Suzie! Great article!

Nah. No need to take the bait. The post has some errors in it, but it will be up to others to uncover them in this thread.

[Russell]

Johnson is undoubtedly a top ten heavyweight.

I can't see how he couldn't be.

[teeto]

I have Johnson at number 3 personally, i hold him in very high regards

[SuzieQ49]

Nah. No need to take the bait. The post has some errors in it, but it will be up to others to uncover them in this thread.




kind of like all of your posts?

[TommyV]

He's definately a top 10.

The only question is how high do you place him?

[he grant]

Jack Johnson was exceptional, one of the very best ... top five for sure , most likely higher ...

[Cachibatches]

All very true, and he is definately a top ten.

But getting knocked cold by Joe Chyoniski, a natural light heavy, is a mitigating factor.

And regardless of how past it he was, his getting knocked cold by Jess Willard, one fo the least talented, is another.

[Seamus]

Head to head, he remains in my top-280. KUDOS!

Historically, he is definitely top-10.

His pawing, slappy style would not last against today's superior talent.

[Russell]

All very true, and he is definately a top ten.

But getting knocked cold by Joe Chyoniski, a natural light heavy, is a mitigating factor.

And regardless of how past it he was, his getting knocked cold by Jess Willard, one fo the least talented, is another.

Joe Choyniski could knock most heavyweights out, Fitz style.

Many if not everyone that fought both of them said Joe hit harder.

[Holmes' Jab]

His pawing, slappy style would not last against today's superior talent.


What? Like Ibragamov, Brewster, Thompson Austin etc. :huh :nut