View Full Version : Is Amir Kahn getting unfair stick for his "slow" progress?
JonOli
08-26-2008, 02:05 PM
BRITISH BOXERS, THEIR AGE, AND THE NUMBER OF FIGHTS BEFORE THEiR FIRST "WORLD TITLE" CHALLENGE (WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO or WBU title challenge).
*some ages may be a few months out*
AUDLEY HARRISON - 22 fights -age 36 - NEVER HAD A REAL TITLE CHALLENGE
DAVID HAYE - 21 fights - age 27 - WBC & WBU TITLE CHALLENGE
JOE CALZAGHE - 23 fights -age 25 - WBO TITLE CHALLENGE
JOE CALZAGHE - 41 fights - age 34 - IBF TITLE CHALLENGE
RICKY HATTON - 23 fights - age 23 - WBU TITLE CHALLENGE
RICKY HATTON - 38 fights -age 26 - IBF TITLE CHALLENGE
FRANK BRUNO - 29 fights - age 25 - WBA TITLE CHALLENGE
DANNY WILLIAMS -34 fights - age 31 - WBU international title
AMIR KAHN - 18 fights - age 21 - No title challenge as yet
Is Amir Kahn getting over the top - unfair - and relentless stick for his perceived "slow" progress?
Betty Swollocks
08-26-2008, 02:07 PM
no he's getting totally fair stick for being a little twat.
Beatboxer
08-26-2008, 02:09 PM
no he's getting totally fair stick for being a little twat.
:lol: :good
no he's getting totally fair stick for being a little twat.
:lol:
I don't think your comparisons are correct JonOli. Not too many people are expecting him to challenge for a world title, infact he's putting that pressure on himself. That would be unreasonable.
We just want to see him face a legitimate threat. Somebody that could knock-out my gran with their punch.
For example, Calzaghe fought Delaney who was unbeaten and could punch, was seen as a prospect at the time
Haye fought Thompson...
Hatton's early competition was awful admittedly, but he didn't have the pedigree or hype.
FLINT ISLAND
08-26-2008, 02:14 PM
its all to do with what standard you judge someone by
no-one is going to slag off Peter Buckley for not winning a world title or getting beat by anyone with a pulse
Naz loses a points decsion to a modern great and he is called a fraud
Khan is being judged on the hype and talk he has projected
about beating Naz's record for being a youngest world champion and that
the reality is Khan is still young and plenty of time on his side
it is more to do with the dislike for him rather than him not winning a world title yet
he deserves some stick he is big headed prick who talks above his status
calling out Manny Pac
saying he would beat Floyd Mayweather over 4 rounds when he was about 18 years old
this is the standard Khan claims to be
others dont agree and dislike him for his arrogance and disrespect to other fighters
GazOC
08-26-2008, 02:16 PM
Yep, he gets too much stick, only he's 21. He needs to start stepping up soon though.
TommyV
08-26-2008, 02:20 PM
no he's getting totally fair stick for being a little twat.
:lol:
I would say yes he is. He's moving at a steady pace.
How can you be moving at the correct pace if you have failed to face a single puncher? It is hindering his development. It would be very poor matchmaking if he had a legit chance of becoming a world champ.
achillesthegreat
08-26-2008, 02:22 PM
I don't think his progress is slow anymore. He shouldn't get stick for it. HOWEVER fighters who step up quicker should get credit for it.
Claypole
08-26-2008, 02:24 PM
its all to do with what standard you judge someone by
no-one is going to slag off Peter Buckley for not winning a world title or getting beat by anyone with a pulse
Naz loses a points decsion to a modern great and he is called a fraud
Khan is being judged on the hype and talk he has projected
about beating Naz's record for being a youngest world champion and that
the reality is Khan is still young and plenty of time on his side
it is more to do with the dislike for him rather than him not winning a world title yet
he deserves some stick he is big headed prick who talks above his status
calling out Manny Pac
saying he would beat Floyd Mayweather over 4 rounds when he was about 18 years old
this is the standard Khan claims to be
others dont agree and dislike him for his arrogance and disrespect to other fighters
Flint, please would you be so kind as to use some punctuation now and again?
toffeejack
08-26-2008, 02:25 PM
I don't think the stick is unfair at all and this is how I see it.
He has had extremely unfair hype because of the silver medal in the Olympics. That is not his fault but he has never helped himself with his arrogant attitude either.
I bet the likes of Kevin Mitchell, Alex Arthur and Enzo Macarinelli must be seething in secret over the ridiculous hype that Khan has received. I mean he has earned more money than a lot of world champions out there now that can't be right can it?
His weak defence has been exposed on numerous occasions, most notably against Limond where the referee took a fag break while he was down and against a shot Michael Gomez yet some people (mainly the general public) are being conned into thinking he is going to be the next Sugar Ray Leonard.
And now to top it all off, he is on Sky Box Office for his first fight on Sky which isn't even a title fight! I mean that advert on there now trying to compare him to greats such as Lewis, Tyson and Hamed is just unbelievable.
The quicker this hype job gets Ko'd the better it will be for everyone and I even include Amir Khan himself in that.
BRITISH BOXERS, THEIR AGE, AND THE NUMBER OF FIGHTS BEFORE THEiR FIRST TITLE CHALLENGE.
In terms of "first title challenge" I feel some of the comparisons given are a little misleading.
Think Joe Calzaghe for instance won the British Title after two years as a pro and in his 14th fight.
With regards to criticism of Khans progress so far - regrettably I feel he brings a lot of it on himself. It is he who has constantly declared his intention to break one record or another - first it was to be World Champ by 21, then after the Limond contest he stated he would be World Champ within 5 fights, then there was all the talk of breaking Prince Naseem Hamed's record of becoming youngest British World Champ and now its World Champ whilst still 21....
Its unfortunate because, by setting himself unrealistic targets, he has not only fallen short of his own expectations but put added unnecessary pressure on himself.
TommyV
08-26-2008, 03:04 PM
How can you be moving at the correct pace if you have failed to face a single puncher? It is hindering his development. It would be very poor matchmaking if he had a legit chance of becoming a world champ.
Prescott is a step in the right direction.
JonOli
08-26-2008, 03:06 PM
In terms of "first title challenge" I feel some of the comparisons given are a little misleading.
Think Joe Calzaghe for instance won the British Title after two years as a pro and in his 14th fight.
I did them all on "World title" challenges only (WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO or WBU title challenges) - I should have made it clearer - sorry.
Prescott is a step in the right direction.
It is.
He's still not quite where he should be though. When you look at a guys record, you get an idea of the kind of credibility he has. So when we look at who he's been knocking out, its hard to gain an accurate idea of how hard he does actually punch because most are domestic novices.
For example, if he'd have actually fought Thaxton there is credibility because we know the guys Thaxton has knocked out.
I did them all on World title challenges only (WBC, WBA, IBF, and WBO & WBU title challenges) - I should have made it clearer - sorry.
No problem. :good
Its interesting though as I don't really judge a fighters progress just on how quickly they win a World Title.
With Khan for instance I'd genuinely be impressed if he stepped up and won the British and European Titles.
I would love to see Khan-Romanov, I really would.
Claypole
08-26-2008, 03:30 PM
I would love to see Khan-Romanov, I really would.FW wouldn't.
You can't include the WBU as a world title challenge.
Another thing, Khan is yet to challenge for the British title. Let's look at when the fighters in your list fought for the British title:
David Haye - in his 8th fight
Joe Calzaghe - in his 14th fight
Ricky Hatton - in his 22nd fight
Danny Williams - in his 16th fight
Audley Harrison - no British title challenge yet
Frank Bruno - no British title challenge
The stick he gets would normaly be unfair for a 21 year old but he brings it all on himself with what he says.
I think ****** has been matching him okay - if he was to match him with a hard puncher he could have had a brutal beating by now.
If Khan was to say something like "I just want to keep gradually stepping up a level and eventually fight for a world title" then people would not be on his back so much.
Instead he has made some ridiculous comments about his level and when he will be world champion and has been largely responsible for the high level of expectation because of this.
JonOli
08-26-2008, 04:29 PM
You can't include the WBU as a world title challenge.
Another thing, Khan is yet to challenge for the British title. Let's look at when the fighters in your list fought for the British title:
David Haye - in his 8th fight
Joe Calzaghe - in his 14th fight
Ricky Hatton - in his 22nd fight
Danny Williams - in his 16th fight
Audley Harrison - no British title challenge yet
Frank Bruno - no British title challenge
The British title doesn't hold the weight it used to.
If you chuck out the WBU then the WBO can go as well because it is only very recently that it has gained any sort of credence whatsoever - some bodies refuse to recognise it even now (if you remove those that makes the time taken by Hatton, and Calzaghe - to pick up a genuine title - look even worse).
Some boxers take the British, or Euro route others don't (eg Bruno) - but they all have a final goal of a world title. Khan may well decide to skip the British scene altogher, like the afore mentioned Bruno.
If Khan picks up a "World title" within his next 5 fights, he will be a lot younger, and done it in a quicker time then all those on the list bar Haye who did it two fights quicker; but at 26.
*Yes we all know the values of alphabet world titles before anyone starts, but the situations been pretty much the same for all of them listed with perhaps the exception of Bruno*
Thats 5 fights...
brown bomber
08-26-2008, 04:30 PM
Prescott is a step in the right direction.:patsch You usually post better then that.
hitman_hatton1
08-26-2008, 05:29 PM
one things for sure.
khan's career is definitely at that stage when he should be boxing the best of british or a good european level contender.
not an unheard of guy like prescott. :huh
and as for ppv. :patsch
Broxi
08-26-2008, 07:26 PM
Well, the stick he gets is a mix of factors and not least is the Frank ****** factor because the stick Khan recieves comes from the boxing fans, not the general sports fans who only see him KO'ing the guys put in front of him so far.
He's also held to higher standards due to the hype surrounding him, the fact he is PPV on Sky Box Office and he hasn't done anything yet. There's also the arrogance that seems to be the mark of the guy now, when he first turned pro after the Olympics, he seemed like a humble, polite and likable kid.
The money and star value has gone straight to his head and he's been calling out greats and claiming to be world level, if he wants to claim these things then he has to be held to their standards.
Maybe this is a good reason our boxers have to struggle for credability on the world stage, let's have a look at some non-British champions as comparisons, since Khan likes to compare himself to greats:
Oscar De La Hoya
WBO SFW - 11 Fights - 21 Yr Old
Floyd Mayweather Jr
WBC SFW - 17 Fights - 21 Yr Old
Manny Pacquiao
WBC FW - 24 Fights - 20 Yrs Old
Felix Trinidad
IBF WW - 19 Fights - 20 Yr Old
realsoulja
08-26-2008, 07:32 PM
If he shuts his mouth, and fight bums
no one would give a shit
but he talks about becoming world champ then fights an unknown columbian called presscot, wtf is tht.
he shud just box and make money, progress, be patient, wait for a good moment, win a title, then talk trash. His trash talking might be complemented then. wish him the best, but he needs to fix his attitude.
GazOC
08-26-2008, 07:34 PM
Why not throw in Wilfred Benitez as well while you're cherry picking?:roll:;)
Broxi
08-26-2008, 07:42 PM
Why not throw in Wilfred Benitez as well while you're cherry picking?:roll:;)
Mike Tyson
WBC HW - 27 Fights - 20 Yrs Old
:lol::lol:
GazOC
08-26-2008, 07:51 PM
Still cherry picking.....what about Leonard? Breland? Whittaker? Spinks? All ex Olympians and older than Khan when they fought for the title.
Ghostface923
08-26-2008, 07:53 PM
Everybody needs someone to hate. It was not too long ago everybody was hating Hatton and saying he should fight witter, now theyve moved onto Khan. Its same as how the England team get so much stick instead of encouragement and people like Lampard youst to get hated for no reason.
JonOli
08-26-2008, 07:54 PM
Some of the main Brits I didn't do...
Witter - 18 fights:yikes - IBF JW - 26 years old (Judah loss)
WItter -28 fights - WBO JW - 28 years old
Arthur - 24 fights - WBO SF - 29 years old
Eubank - 25 fights - WBO MW - 24 years old
Benn - 27 fights - WBO MW - 26 years old
Lewis - 23 fights - WBC HW - 28 years old
BIG WORM
08-26-2008, 07:55 PM
Everybody needs someone to hate. It was not too long ago everybody was hating Hatton and saying he should fight witter, now theyve moved onto Khan. Its same as how the England team get so much stick instead of encouragement and people like Lampard youst to get hated for no reason.
true
people aint got nothing else to do
GazOC
08-26-2008, 08:11 PM
Well - those guys are ALL miles ahead of Khan in talent. Mayweather, at the same stage, would have destroyed Khan at LW - even with Khan's weight advantage.
Oscar murders Khan in about 3 rounds
Tito would humiliate him in two.
Which says nothing about Khan really - these guys are solid picks H2H across the eras at their best weights. Khan would, however, lose to Juan Diaz, David Diaz, Julio Diaz, Nate Campbell, Casamayor, Katsidis and anyone else in the top ten of LW, simply because he has no experience, no defence and the sort of mentality that he would crumble against tough, veteran fighters.
He's 21, he has time to get the experience and become 'hardened' to the pro game, its his chin thats going to let down and putting him in with punchers isn't going to toughen it up. I think a lot of people want to see him in with punchers in the hope he'll get flattened rather than as part of a career progression.
If he's lucky he can be a poor mans Thomas Hearns, offensively very good but very fragile if caught.
GazOC
08-26-2008, 08:55 PM
If Joe Public is in the midst of a credit crisis he could always not spend his money PPV boxing, its not compulsory that he has to pay for it. Or better still, he could cancel his Sky subscription altogether....
Sky and, to a slightly lesser extent, ****** are to blame for this being PPV, not the boxer.
Ghostface923
08-26-2008, 09:01 PM
Khan and his managment are basically charging average Joe Public 15 pounds to watch a low level card with his commonwealth title as the main event , while the country is in a credit crisis
He should be hated for that, the dirty greedy cunt:yep:yep:yep:yep
****** is 2 blame not Khan.
GazOC
08-26-2008, 09:13 PM
Sky bid for the fight based on it making it a PPV, thats why its PPV and thats the bottom line.
T.C.W
08-27-2008, 04:09 AM
I think most of this is about Khan making alot of money before he has hit the top 5 type fighters and also his race and relgion has a bit to do with it as well.
My dinner with Conteh
08-27-2008, 04:13 AM
The unfair stick would soon end when ****** signs him up to meet someone who hits hard enough to break an egg.
BigEars
08-27-2008, 04:51 AM
Hatton's early competition was awful admittedly, but he didn't have the pedigree or hype.
He fought Thaxton at 21 though, something Khan won't be doing.
Someone mentioned Bruno didn't go the British/European route, Bruno infact did win the European title.
I can't believe some people are calling Prescott a step up, he's a complete unknown really and could be a powderpuff puncher despite the record for all we know. Nearly all of his opponents have very few fights and have losing records.
His one notable fight against Richard Abril(who came in on short notice) was a SD win. I didn't see the fight but Atlas had Abril winning.
That was Prescott's biggest fight to date just 2 months ago and he scraped through. He's now coming in on 3 weeks notice here with a very high chance that he's not actually a step up at all.
The British title doesn't hold the weight it used to.
If you chuck out the WBU then the WBO can go as well because it is only very recently that it has gained any sort of credence whatsoever - some bodies refuse to recognise it even now (if you remove those that makes the time taken by Hatton, and Calzaghe - to pick up a genuine title - look even worse).
Personally I'd give Khan more credit if he were to fight and beat Murray for the British Title than if he fought McAllister and won the WBU Title.
JonOli
08-27-2008, 08:19 AM
I wouldn't give him much credit for winning the WBU either - but I put it in as a bench mark because some of those on the list first went for it (on the world stage). Also, the WBO in it's early years was hardly anymore credible then the WBU is now.
I may be wrong but I really don't think winning a British title would dowse the stick Khan gets.
JonOli
08-27-2008, 08:22 AM
The unfair stick would soon end when ****** signs him up to meet someone who hits hard enough to break an egg.
I'm not sure that I agree; Hatton now gets the same levels of stick from much of the same quarters.
I may be wrong but I really don't think winning a British title would dowse the stick Khan gets.
Winning the British Title would be progress at this stage.
Decent title and opponent.
I'd like to think most fair minded posters would give Khan credit if he could capture that against Murray.
David UK
08-27-2008, 12:53 PM
Yes he is. Just bear in mind that Calzaghe,Hatton, Haye,Froch, Woods etc etc didn't even turn pro until about the age that Khan is now. The way I see it is that his progress therefore, is WAY AHEAD of the above at this point.
NB Isn't Degale older than Khan?
JonOli
08-27-2008, 02:01 PM
You left out hamed!!!
Not on purpose honestly, having said that I can't stand him... anyway..
Hamed - 20 fights FW - WBO - Age 21
BigEars
08-27-2008, 02:30 PM
:yepYes he is. Just bear in mind that Calzaghe,Hatton, Haye,Froch, Woods etc etc didn't even turn pro until about the age that Khan is now. The way I see it is that his progress therefore, is WAY AHEAD of the above at this point.
NB Isn't Degale older than Khan?
Most of those fighters are from much higher weight classes and hence turn pro later. The only exception is Hatton, who was British champion at 21.
Degale is a year older than Khan yes. He won't have to waste time with amateur rematches though, he's already got Gold.
Not on purpose honestly, having said that I can't stand him... anyway..
Hamed - 20 fights FW - WBO - Age 21
To attempt to eclipse Prince Naseem Hamed's record was the benchmark Khan set himself.
JonOli
08-27-2008, 02:50 PM
Number of fights till first world title challenge
AMIR KHAN - 18 fights - None
1 JUNIOR WITTER - 18 fights - IBF (Judah loss)
2 NASEEM HAMED - 20 fights - WBO
3 DAVID HAYE - 21 fights - WBC & WBU
4 AUDLEY HARRISON - 22 fights - None
5 RICKY HATTON - 23 fights - WBU
6 JOE CALZAGHE - 23 fights - WBO
7 LENNOX LEWIS - 23 fights - WBC
8 ALEX ARTHUR - 24 fights - WBO
9 CHRIS EUBANK - 25 fights - WBO
10 NIGEL BENN - 27 fights - WBO
11 JUNIOR WITTER -28 fights - WBO
12 FRANK BRUNO - 29 fights - WBA
13 DANNY WILLIAMS -34 fights - WBU
14 RICKY HATTON -38 fights - IBF
15 JOE CALZAGHE - 41 fights - IBF
Age at first world title challenge
AMIR KHAN - 21 years - None
1 NASEEM HAMED - 21 years - WBO
2 RICKY HATTON - 23 years - WBU
3 CHRIS EUBANK - 24 years - WBO
4 FRANK BRUNO - 25 years - WBA
5 JOE CALZAGHE -25 years - WBO
6 RICKY HATTON -26 years - IBF
7 NIGEL BENN - 26 years - WBO
8 JUNIOR WITTER 26 years - IBF (Judah loss)
9 DAVID HAYE - 27 years - WBC & WBU
10 JUNIOR WITTER -28 years - WBO
11 LENNOX LEWIS - 28 years - WBC
12 ALEX ARTHUR - 29 years - WBO
13 DANNY WILLIAMS -31 years - WBU
14 JOE CALZAGHE - 34 years - IBF
15 AUDLEY HARRISON - 36 years - None
JonOli
08-27-2008, 02:53 PM
To attempt to eclipse Prince Naseem Hamed's record was the benchmark Khan set himself.
Was it, I wasn't aware of that - he's not going to break that now is he.
Was it, I wasn't aware of that - he's not going to break that now is he.
Pretty sure the timeframe has already passed - Khan would have had to win a World Title by end of July I think.
GazOC
08-28-2008, 05:56 AM
Benitez is an (borderline) ATG, one of the most naturally gifted fighters ever who nowadays cannot feed himself or take himself to the toilet. Hardly a lifestyle for Kahn to aspire to or a reasonable expectation of where he should be in his career. No, he isn't was gifted as Benitez, but you could say that about pretty much any young boxer.
If people are going to bring up boxers like Benitez then 99% of prospects, if not all, are not being moved along quickly enough, at least take a more reasonable example of an average career than Benitez'. Meldrick Taylor won his gold medal and a similar age to Kahn and was moved forward pretty quickly in the pro ranks, anyone know how he's doing today?
GazOC
08-28-2008, 06:54 AM
No, Terry. The Taylor comment was an aside, most of my post concerned Benitiez and basically I am saying is that to compare any young boxers progress to Wilfred Benitez' is ridiculous and straight away betrays the bias of the person making the comparision. Surely you don't hold up Benitiez as an example of where young boxers should be at a given point in their careers? Or put then down because they arn't as naturally gifted?
Yes, Kahn doesn't help himself by bragging himself up but he's a young boxer who's trying to get his name in the papers and sometimes he says stupid things. But he's 21, he doesn't have to be in a rush to move up in class, if he's still taking soft fights at 24 and talking shit then fair enough, have a go at him.
I expected better than the 'are you Frank ******?' comment. Sorry I don't agree with you but that doesn't make me Amir Khan or Frank ******.
T.C.W
08-28-2008, 06:57 AM
Benitez is an (borderline) ATG, one of the most naturally gifted fighters ever who nowadays cannot feed himself or take himself to the toilet. Hardly a lifestyle for Kahn to aspire to or a reasonable expectation of where he should be in his career. No, he isn't was gifted as Benitez, but you could say that about pretty much any young boxer.
If people are going to bring up boxers like Benitez then 99% of prospects, if not all, are not being moved along quickly enough, at least take a more reasonable example of an average career than Benitez'. Meldrick Taylor won his gold medal and a similar age to Kahn and was moved forward pretty quickly in the pro ranks, anyone know how he's doing today?your right, let khan have a career and give it a couple of years before we make the decision about all this stuff, next year he will be fighting real top 10 fighters
BigEars
08-28-2008, 07:56 AM
next year he will be fighting real top 10 fighters
I seriously doubt that.
GazOC
08-28-2008, 08:23 AM
And Archie Moore was 39 when he won the LHW title.;)
Top Dog
08-28-2008, 08:24 AM
His age has nothing to do with it, the only reason that the wee twat gets any stick is because of his blowhard attitude, " I'm super, magic, one of the best already" If he didnt come out with such shit, he wouldnt get so much stick. Tosser anyway,aint going to be a great, he aint that good.
Have we come to the inevitable conclusion that he is actually going way too slow yet?
How the hell can you have fought one guy with over a 50% KO ratio (at superfeather) when you are supposedly above European level I have absolutely no idea.
JonOli
08-28-2008, 11:24 AM
So-far over half the people who have voted say he's getting unfair over the top stick for his progress.
*For the record I think he is going a little slow but doesn't yet deserve the relentless pelter's he gets*
GazOC
08-28-2008, 11:30 AM
No worries mate, the Fawty Towers reference went over my head, which is worrying as I've those progams dozens of times. Maybe alzhiemers!!
I've no problem with people saying his progress is too slow for their liking, that just a matter of opinion but when Benitez, Vargas etc get mentioned it just means you've managed to find some atypical examples of young world champions to suit your case.
I can see both sides. On one hand he's now a 4 year pro who's on PPV and talks a lot of shit. On the other he's only 21, his chin obviously isn't the greatest so whats the rush in moving him up?
There are a lot of people who want him to fight a top fighter and/or a big puncher, not because (as they might claim) they want to see his career progress but because they just want to see him beaten.
No worries mate, the Fawty Towers reference went over my head, which is worrying as I've those progams dozens of times. Maybe alzhiemers!!
I've no problem with people saying his progress is too slow for their liking, that just a matter of opinion but when Benitez, Vargas etc get mentioned it just means you've managed to find some atypical examples of young world champions to suit your case.
I can see both sides. On one hand he's now a 4 year pro who's on PPV and talks a lot of shit. On the other he's only 21, his chin obviously isn't the greatest so whats the rush in moving him up?
There are a lot of people who want him to fight a top fighter and/or a big puncher, not because (as they might claim) they want to see his career progress but because they just want to see him beaten.
Does it matter why they want to see him face one?
The facts of the matter are you can't develop against featherfists he's been feeding on, because you get away with poor mistakes that would otherwise be costly. The whole point of fighting a relative puncher, and we aren't talking a Julian jackson of the lightweight division here, is that it is an excercise in concentration and defence instead of having shit coming back at you.
Prescott is a moderate step forward, at least he has a punchers record, but unfortunately one with a distinct lack of credibility.
GazOC
08-28-2008, 12:03 PM
As long as they (you) are honest about the reason then I suppose not, theres a lot BS going on in that regard though. Hes been tagged and hurt of couple of times already facing non-punchers, if he doesn't use that as a lesson to concentrate then I don't see how getting KO'd will drill it into him much clearer.
You could even say the match making to date has done a good job by exposing him to these problems/ issues without getting him knocked out. Its up to him and his team to learn from them.
I think the stick is well deserved.
He has been floored off the only two live challengers he has fought, yet neither where near world level and neither are punchers.
He has a lofty ranking in all the rankings plus the Ring magazine yet he has fought nobody of note or merit.
Yet we are fed ******s propoganda that he has beaten world level fighters.
BIG WORM
08-28-2008, 01:19 PM
hes bringing it on himself by fighting bums on PPV
GazOC
08-28-2008, 01:25 PM
I think the stick is well deserved.
He has been floored off the only two live challengers he has fought, yet neither where near world level and neither are punchers.
He has a lofty ranking in all the rankings plus the Ring magazine yet he has fought nobody of note or merit.
Yet we are fed ******s propoganda that he has beaten world level fighters.
If he's been floored by non-punching domestic class fighters, doesn't that show you that the 'slow progress' is probably advisable?
Khan and ****** both exagerate the fighters achievements and he's nowhere near where they claim he is on the world or Euro scene but I think they are wise to take their time with Kahn esp. considering his age.
If he's been floored by non-punching domestic class fighters, doesn't that show you that the 'slow progress' is probably advisable?
Khan and ****** both exagerate the fighters achievements and he's nowhere near where they claim he is on the world or Euro scene but I think they are wise to take their time with Kahn esp. considering his age.
Yes he does need slow progress,BUT and this is a big BUT he thinks he is the King Dong already. Also because of the hype he is being ridiculously ranked already and he is going to be rushed into a title fight and get his arse kicked.
Im from Bolton and i swear to you he could take a shit in the street and still be seen as some kind of saviour to mankind.
Anyways i think Khan v Murray would be a cracking fight at the moment and i think Murray should start the favourite. For every person who says Khan has all these positives, they overlook his glaring faults.
GazOC
08-28-2008, 01:42 PM
Ah, but the question in the poll is about the slow progress.....;)
As long as they (you) are honest about the reason then I suppose not, theres a lot BS going on in that regard though. Hes been tagged and hurt of couple of times already facing non-punchers, if he doesn't use that as a lesson to concentrate then I don't see how getting KO'd will drill it into him much clearer.
You could even say the match making to date has done a good job by exposing him to these problems/ issues without getting him knocked out. Its up to him and his team to learn from them.
But a lot of this is down to concentration issues. His defence isn't great, but some of the sloppy work he does smacks of overconfidence and lack of respect for his opponent. And why should he, when he's facing what on paper is an old super feather, or a featherfisted type? It will soon be different when he walks out in that first round and feels a puncher on his gloves and arms and he has to be on the top of his game.
They need to take a calculated risk and put him in with a known opponent that can punch. It might be a risk, but if they don't there will be no risk/reward when it comes to his world title shot that he reckons he's close to, he'll 100% be knocked out.
Ah, but the question in the poll is about the slow progress.....;)
Well then yes it is unfair he is getting stick for his slow progress.... but i still dont like the boy:good
GazOC
08-28-2008, 02:03 PM
But a lot of this is down to concentration issues. His defence isn't great, but some of the sloppy work he does smacks of overconfidence and lack of respect for his opponent. And why should he, when he's facing what on paper is an old super feather, or a featherfisted type? It will soon be different when he walks out in that first round and feels a puncher on his gloves and arms and he has to be on the top of his game.
They need to take a calculated risk and put him in with a known opponent that can punch. It might be a risk, but if they don't there will be no risk/reward when it comes to his world title shot that he reckons he's close to, he'll 100% be knocked out.
You want him get punched on the arm by big puncher and that'll solve his concentration problem? He's never going to have a great chin , he needs to work on his defence (and yes, concentration) but not against people who can lay him out with one punch. They need to be sure his defence is as good as it possibly can be before they take that sort of risk, as I've said whats the rush?
You want him get punched on the arm by big puncher and that'll solve his concentration problem? He's never going to have a great chin , he needs to work on his defence (and yes, concentration) but not against people who can lay him out with one punch. They need to be sure his defence is as good as it possibly can be before they take that sort of risk, as I've said whats the rush?
You think about it way too simplistically. When he is hit on the arm in that first round from a guys jab and he respects his power, he will raise his game, he'll be worried and consequently the reaction times will be quicker
He will have to concentrate, otherwise he'll know he'll be knocked out, rather than facing a featherfist and not respecting his power until he's clocked by a clean shot
It won't change by fighting pillow dusters and old men every time. You can tell by the way he talks pre-fight, he ain't worried a damn bit about these guys and he gets sloppy as a result
It doesn't need to be a huge puncher. Sadly Khan hasn't faced a puncher of ANY stature.
GazOC
08-28-2008, 02:27 PM
So all the bad habits he's picked up over the last 4 years will vanish as soon as he gets hit on the arm and starts concentrating? Who's thinking simplistically now....
They won't improve whilst he's not under threat. That I promise you. He might fight a guy that is not stylistic threat such as a St Clair that gives the false impression he's improved, but it wasn't the case as we've seen. I suspect this Prescott is cherrypicked perfectly.
There always comes a time where its sink or swim with dodgy chinned fighters, and the time is up for Amir. He's fought enough garbage. Fight a Murray, a Romanov, hell even a Thaxton :roll:
GazOC
08-28-2008, 02:47 PM
Theres absolutely no need for him to 'sink or swim' at the moment, he's 21 FFS. I'd have damn sight more time for your opinions on this if you just admitted you want to see him KO'd, at least we'd have a honest start to the discussion.
I don't really care if he gets KO'd I'm not particuarly a hater or lover of Khan, I just absolutely know that not fighting a guy with some power after 18 fights does more harm than good in the long run. It's similar to matching a guy against fighters of one style, and expecting him to come up trumps against a different one later. Another thing Khan has been guilty of up until Gomez.
You might be protecting the applecart, but at the same time your chances on the world level are evaporating slowly as the flaws become more ingrained.
He will get KO'd regardless so I won't have to wait long ;)
GazOC
08-28-2008, 03:00 PM
Unless he improves he'll get KO'd within a couple of fights of moving up to genuine world level, I'm pretty sure of that but I just don't see that it has to be now and I don't think that giving him time to try improve that defence and at least try and maximize his chances is a bad thing. These things don't get improved/ corrected over one fight, he needs a steady step up in opposition but theres no need to throw him to the lions just yet.
That would be ok I suppose. I'm frustrated more than anything because I don't really see this Prescott guy as a steady step up, on paper. He may well go on to prove me completely wrong since I've not seen him, but this is a hugely protected guy with a deceiving record - and more often than not they fail to deliver at the next stage. We don't really know if he's that powerful, or at all skillfull.
A steady step up would have been Thaxton. Extremely steady, since he's old, cut prone and just got a beating, but at least he has some pedigree and power, as well as being a southpaw.
BIG WORM
08-28-2008, 04:06 PM
khans improved since the LImond fight loads, i think limond wouldnt stand much of a chance iif they fought again
Claypole
08-28-2008, 04:23 PM
khans improved since the LImond fight loads, i think limond wouldnt stand much of a chance iif they fought againKhan may have improved, but not by a huge amount.
He may have learned some new stuff in training, but all they have done is lower the quality of opponent to a level that flatters him. If he had improved greatly since the Limond fight, he wouldn't have looked so vulnerable against Gomez.
FLINT ISLAND
08-28-2008, 04:38 PM
Khan may have improved, but not by a huge amount.
He may have learned some new stuff in training, but all they have done is lower the quality of opponent to a level that flatters him. If he had improved greatly since the Limond fight, he wouldn't have looked so vulnerable against Gomez.
I agree with Clay here.
Limond is a better more prime fighter than Gomez.
They got a scare against a decent champion like Limond so ****** is now using Khan as another one of his gravy train tickets - and putting him against bums all the time to milk it all and build up a undefeated paper record and add a paper title along the way
Claypole
08-28-2008, 04:47 PM
Fish face even had the cheek to claim that Scott Lawton was a step up from Limond.
This PPV against an unknown novice does nothing to suggest Khan is making good progress. Beating Limond and being commonwealth champ was good progress at the time, but this is just utter bollocks.
FLINT ISLAND
08-28-2008, 04:57 PM
Khan is on bullshit avenue
****** has taken him there - 20 bums lined up over the next 5 years
Khan will be 38-0
but would have fought no one
and milked in millions selling WBU defences on pay per view
BigEars
08-28-2008, 05:04 PM
Fish face even had the cheek to claim that Scott Lawton was a step up from Limond.
This PPV against an unknown novice does nothing to suggest Khan is making good progress. Beating Limond and being commonwealth champ was good progress at the time, but this is just utter bollocks.
There were guys on here trying to claim Lawton was a step up from Limond :roll:
The truth is Limond has still been Khan's best opponent and until he faces someone above that level we're not going to be able to tell whether he's really improved or not.
scurlaruntings
08-29-2008, 01:43 PM
You want him get punched on the arm by big puncher and that'll solve his concentration problem? He's never going to have a great chin , he needs to work on his defence (and yes, concentration) but not against people who can lay him out with one punch. They need to be sure his defence is as good as it possibly can be before they take that sort of risk, as I've said whats the rush?The kids chin has been bad since the amatuers. Dont really see what all the fuss is about. He`s a prospect who does need to be brought along fairly slowly because of his defiencies in fundamentals and his sub par chin. Khan isnt ready for world class yet and his "Ring" ranking is quite flattering. I say let the kid ply his trade get the bouts in and pick up some experience before he gets his blocked knocked off.
scurlaruntings
08-29-2008, 01:44 PM
Khan is on bullshit avenue
****** has taken him there - 20 bums lined up over the next 5 years
Khan will be 38-0
but would have fought no one
and milked in millions selling WBU defences on pay per viewWhat do you expect? His a Frank ****** fighter. ALL succesful ****** fighters go along the same tried and tested route.
brown bomber
08-29-2008, 02:25 PM
Khan is on bullshit avenue
****** has taken him there - 20 bums lined up over the next 5 years
Khan will be 38-0
but would have fought no one
and milked in millions selling WBU defences on pay per view Wrong......
****** will shift him onto the slightly more acceptable WBO route as soon as Casamayor, Diaz and Campbell have moved on.
Then he'll get to 39-0, set a record for title defenses and have two fights against undefeated, untested but fairly decent fighters and claim a legacy like .......
scurlaruntings
08-29-2008, 02:30 PM
Wrong......
****** will shift him onto the slightly more acceptable WBO route as soon as Casamayor, Diaz and Campbell have moved on.
Then he'll get to 39-0, set a record for title defenses and have two fights against undefeated, untested but fairly decent fighters and claim a legacy like ......... Ricky Hatton
brown bomber
08-29-2008, 02:31 PM
.. Ricky Hatton... Joe Calzaghe:lol:
brown bomber
08-29-2008, 02:32 PM
... Naseem Hamed (doh..... MAB ruined that post ******)
JonOli
04-08-2009, 12:17 PM
Number of fights till first world title challenge
AMIR KHAN - 18 fights - None
1 JUNIOR WITTER - 18 fights - IBF (Judah loss)
2 NASEEM HAMED - 20 fights - WBO
3 DAVID HAYE - 21 fights - WBC & WBU
4 AUDLEY HARRISON - 22 fights - None
5 RICKY HATTON - 23 fights - WBU
6 JOE CALZAGHE - 23 fights - WBO
7 LENNOX LEWIS - 23 fights - WBC
8 ALEX ARTHUR - 24 fights - WBO
9 CHRIS EUBANK - 25 fights - WBO
10 NIGEL BENN - 27 fights - WBO
11 JUNIOR WITTER -28 fights - WBO
12 FRANK BRUNO - 29 fights - WBA
13 DANNY WILLIAMS -34 fights - WBU
14 RICKY HATTON -38 fights - IBF
15 JOE CALZAGHE - 41 fights - IBF
Age at first world title challenge
AMIR KHAN - 21 years - None
1 NASEEM HAMED - 21 years - WBO
2 RICKY HATTON - 23 years - WBU
3 CHRIS EUBANK - 24 years - WBO
4 FRANK BRUNO - 25 years - WBA
5 JOE CALZAGHE -25 years - WBO
6 RICKY HATTON -26 years - IBF
7 NIGEL BENN - 26 years - WBO
8 JUNIOR WITTER 26 years - IBF (Judah loss)
9 DAVID HAYE - 27 years - WBC & WBU
10 JUNIOR WITTER -28 years - WBO
11 LENNOX LEWIS - 28 years - WBC
12 ALEX ARTHUR - 29 years - WBO
13 DANNY WILLIAMS -31 years - WBU
14 JOE CALZAGHE - 34 years - IBF
15 AUDLEY HARRISON - 36 years - None
*updated*
Number of fights till first world title challenge
1 JUNIOR WITTER - 18 fights - IBF (Judah loss)
2 NASEEM HAMED - 20 fights - WBO
3 AMIR KHAN - 21 fights - WBA
3 DAVID HAYE - 21 fights - WBC & WBU
4 RICKY HATTON - 23 fights - WBU
5 JOE CALZAGHE - 23 fights - WBO
6 LENNOX LEWIS - 23 fights - WBC
7 ALEX ARTHUR - 24 fights - WBO
8 CHRIS EUBANK - 25 fights - WBO
9 NIGEL BENN - 27 fights - WBO
10 AUDLEY HARRISON - 27 fights - None
11 JUNIOR WITTER -28 fights - WBO
12 FRANK BRUNO - 29 fights - WBA
13 DANNY WILLIAMS -34 fights - WBU
14 RICKY HATTON -38 fights - IBF
15 JOE CALZAGHE - 41 fights - IBF
Age at first world title challenge
1 NASEEM HAMED - 21 years - WBO
2 AMIR KHAN - 22 years - WBA
3 RICKY HATTON - 23 years - WBU
4 CHRIS EUBANK - 24 years - WBO
5 FRANK BRUNO - 25 years - WBA
6 JOE CALZAGHE -25 years - WBO
7 RICKY HATTON -26 years - IBF
8 NIGEL BENN - 26 years - WBO
9 JUNIOR WITTER 26 years - IBF (Judah loss)
10 DAVID HAYE - 27 years - WBC & WBU
11 JUNIOR WITTER -28 years - WBO
12 LENNOX LEWIS - 28 years - WBC
13 ALEX ARTHUR - 29 years - WBO
14 DANNY WILLIAMS -31 years - WBU
15 JOE CALZAGHE - 34 years - IBF
16 AUDLEY HARRISON - 37 years - None
Calzaghe was 34 at his first world title challenge?
Try again.
JonOli
04-08-2009, 12:30 PM
Calzaghe was 34 at his first world title challenge?
Try again.
He's listed twice...as are some others, as some people question the WBO - certainly back then (it's still not recognised by some bodies) - and the WBU too.
I'm sure it's easy enough to pick holes in the list, but it gives a rough idea.
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