Hagler - Baddest Mofo of our Era

[MrSmall]

Thoughts?
Just the way he carried himself, things he said, way he fought, way he thought.

Who else is worthy of this title? For, say, 1980 and onwards.

Mike Tyson?

[brooklyn1550]

I'd have to agree with you and go with Marvelous Marvin Hagler

In the ring, he had to take the hard route suffering 2 close decisions and fighting tough Philadelphia middleweights (Watts, Briscoe, Hart) before he could finally secure a title shot. When he became champion, he didn't allow the judges to decide his fights. He cleaned out the middleweight division while racking up 12 title defenses, 11 by knockout. He was an absolute terror in the ring who could rough you up, fight on the inside, fight outside, counterpunch, knock you out, and pehaps take the best shot of any middleweight in history. It's arguable that he was never really knocked down in his entire career. Plus, he was so tough mentally. He wasn't a guy who went around acting like he was the baddest or the toughest or saying he was publically, it just came off naturally with him. I love his quote regarding the Hearns' pinky finger incident - "you know how many people would give a million dollars for that little baby pinky? They'd cut that thing off."

The total package - truly a bad mofo!

[Vanboxingfan]

I became a boxing fan because of Duran and Hagler, so I have a lot of respect for both of them. Hager in particular as I recall thinking that this guy would die rather than loose and he's tough as nails..not someone you would ever want to be on the wrong side of.

[JohnThomas1]

Tyson for his short peak was far badder. Experienced opponents, talented opponents, most seemed scared stiff. Many were beaten before even fronting up. Every name i seem to think of has some sort of knock. Hagler was pretty meek vs Duran and Leonard, Tyson had some ordinary efforts when bested, Gomez got a couple of hammerings. Duran quit and had some bad showings.

The guy i will go for is Jeff Fenech. He is a genuine badass, not a built up one. He had a couple of losses at the end but for 6 or 7 years he was ferocity personified in the ring. Dirty, strong, and willing to go thru anything to beat you. He fought with constant pressure of which there was no respise whatsoever. Look at opponents by the end of his bouts, they've been there some hell. He was absolutely vicious.

[Pat_Lowe]

Tyson for his short peak was far badder. Experienced opponents, talented opponents, most seemed scared stiff. Many were beaten before even fronting up. Every name i seem to think of has some sort of knock. Hagler was pretty meek vs Duran and Leonard, Tyson had some ordinary efforts when bested, Gomez got a couple of hammerings. Duran quit and had some bad showings.

The guy i will go for is Jeff Fenech. He is a genuine badass, not a built up one. He had a couple of losses at the end but for 6 or 7 years he was ferocity personified in the ring. Dirty, strong, and willing to go thru anything to beat you. He fought with constant pressure of which there was no respise whatsoever. Look at opponents by the end of his bouts, they've been there some hell. He was absolutely vicious.

Outside the ring he was pretty ferocious and vicious as well. Wouldn't wanna mess with him

[cardstars]

Amen to this thread. Hes my fav :bbb

He had to knock out his competition - otherwise the judges would rob the fight from him!

[JohnThomas1]

Outside the ring he was pretty ferocious and vicious as well. Wouldn't wanna mess with him

For sure, that's what i mean by genuine badass. It was his very persona. Not a nice guy our Jeff lol.

[robert ungurean]

I may also have to go with Jeff here.
He went balls out every time.

[Pat_Lowe]

I might also add that it takes a badass to continue to fight like Fenech did with a broken hand/s (in fact anyone who fights on gains my respect). Fenech suffered from chronic hand problems and in some fights I believe he broke both hands and fought on to win, this is made especially difficult by the mauling style he employed where he had to throw punches all the time to be effective. I hurt my thumb in my 2nd fight and was wary of throwing it, so to imagine what fighters like Fenech, Gatti, Whitaker and Hearns went through is unbelievable

[redrooster]

I'd say Mike was more fearsome outside than inside where he would regularly be taken the distance by mediocrities. Wasn't very impressed with the Biggs fight and Douglas should never have ran him down like that.

Fenech I can go for. A genuine tough guy but what went wrong in the Nelson fight? I thought Nelson was supposed to win the rematch. Guess I was wrong for the first time.

I kind of felt DLH was a bad dude. Never got in a street fight for some reason.

Hagler would be my choice for bad ass with his unlimited power and abilities.

Another choice would be a young Roy Jones with his enormous hand speed.

[Rattler]

Matthew Saad Muhammad... end of debate.

[young griffo]

I'd say Mike was more fearsome outside than inside where he would regularly be taken the distance by mediocrities. Wasn't very impressed with the Biggs fight and Douglas should never have ran him down like that.

Fenech I can go for. A genuine tough guy but what went wrong in the Nelson fight? I thought Nelson was supposed to win the rematch. Guess I was wrong for the first time.

I kind of felt DLH was a bad dude. Never got in a street fight for some reason.

Hagler would be my choice for bad ass with his unlimited power and abilities.

Another choice would be a young Roy Jones with his enormous hand speed.
Jones Jnr and Oscar???
They were both brilliant fighters but they weren't bad cunts in any way shape or form.
Jones spoke at length about never wanting to hurt an opponent in the ring and showed compassion towards overmatched foes on numerous occasions.He was apparently punching the ring apron screaming for the fight to be stopped when calling the Gabe Ruales-Jimmy Garcia fight,hardly the actions of a badass imo.
De La Hoya was all business in the ring but it was just that for him-business.
He never held personal animosity towards any opponent (maybe Vargas excepted) but his job was to destroy these guys and it's what he tried to do.

[Duodenum]

Matthew Saad Muhammad... end of debate.I'm relieved Matt never took on Mike Spinks in a 15 rounder, when his fire still burned bright and hot within. Miracle Matthew might have become Murdered Matthew with his guts. (I've never been able to figure out how that torso of his could contain a heart that humongous.)

[Rattler]

Jones Jnr and Oscar???
They were both brilliant fighters but they weren't bad cunts in any way shape or form.
Jones spoke at length about never wanting to hurt an opponent in the ring and showed compassion towards overmatched foes on numerous occasions.He was apparently punching the ring apron screaming for the fight to be stopped when calling the Gabe Ruales-Jimmy Garcia fight,hardly the actions of a badass imo.

A badass doesn't need to say shit about being a bad ass. It doesn't mean they lack the ability to empathise with an extreme circumstance like watching a fighter slowly being killed in the ring. Whether he's a bad ass or not, Jones asking for that fight to be stopped is irrelevant in regards to his "badass-edness".

[young griffo]

A badass doesn't need to say shit about being a bad ass. It doesn't mean they lack the ability to empathise with an extreme circumstance like watching a fighter slowly being killed in the ring. Whether he's a bad ass or not, Jones asking for that fight to be stopped is irrelevant in regards to his "badass-edness".
Please don't think I'm denigrating Roy in any way for calling for the Ruales-Garcia fight to be stopped when he did,as I wish to God it had've been stopped earlier.Jones was obviously spot on about this,plus he also showed compassion towards Bryant Brannon when beating him down (same deal with Reggie Johnson I always thought) and openly expressed trepidation about fighing Vinny Pazienza before they met.
I just found his humanity being at odds with his being a great pro fighter.
A complex person was Roy I always thought.

[Rattler]

Please don't think I'm denigrating Roy in any way for calling for the Ruales-Garcia fight to be stopped when he did,as I wish to God it had've been stopped earlier.Jones was obviously spot on about this,plus he also showed compassion towards Bryant Brannon when beating him down (same deal with Reggie Johnson I always thought) and openly expressed trepidation about fighing Vinny Pazienza before they met.
I just found his humanity being at odds with his being a great pro fighter.
A complex person was Roy I always thought.

I wasn't implying that.

Just pointing out that being tough is not mutually exclusive of harboring sympathetic emotions.

There's two sides to every coin, if you will. One cannot exist without the other.

[Duodenum]

I'd have to agree with you and go with Marvelous Marvin Hagler

In the ring, he had to take the hard route suffering 2 close decisions and fighting tough Philadelphia middleweights (Watts, Briscoe, Hart) before he could finally secure a title shot.Hey Buddy, don't forget Willie The Worm. It was at Monroe's hands that Hagler suffered his only decisive loss, and at Monroe's expense that Marv finally made his name in Philly with a virtual two round decapitation. (Is Willie still performing as a referee?)

Caveman Lee got clubbed in one, but everybody else who he fought with the MW Title on the line was a rock. Excellent middleweights like Curtis Parker, Dwight Davison, Frank Fletcher, James Green, John Collins, Doug DeWitt, Mark Holmes (Larry's kid brother finished with a superb 38-1 record), Alex Ramos, Bobby Czyz, and numerous others couldn't even earn shots at Hagler through the absurdly rugged gauntlet of divisional contenders during Marv's reign.

The combined records of Hagler's championship opponents (including the records of the three combatants Marv rematched for the title
with at the time of their first meetings) was 445W+23L+6D. Over the course of his career, Marv dropped eight adversaries from the unbeaten ranks. He was never punched to the deck. Like Larry Holmes, he mentored a kid sibling to a successful middleweight career. An extremely valid argument can be made that Hagler's career record should stand at 66W(52 KO)+1UDL+0D. The argument could also be made that he was virtually invincible over the 15 round distance. It is my understanding that he was never even knocked down by a punch to the head while sparring!

A huge part of the reason I no longer follow boxing has to do with the fact that SRL was handed Hagler's title after only 12 rounds, instead of the true championship distance. He earned his 15 round stripes against Duran, and never took a backwards step in blasting out Hearns as Tommy had done to Cuevas and Duran. He was considered by many to be the world's best MW through the last ten years and 30 fights of his career. (If Hagler had gotten Briscoe's shot against Valdez for Monzon's vacated title, he might have shattered Joe Louis's all-time records for number of successful championship defenses and length of reign.)

Fully Obel moved up to the light heavyweight division, rather than try challenging Hagler a third time for his middleweight belts.

At the end, Marv slowed down a bit, but if Hearns and Mugabi couldn't beat him down (as Douglas beat down Tyson), then nobody would have been able to do it for a long time to come.

Yeah. Hagler - Baddest Mofo of our era.

[Muchmoore]

Thoughts?
Just the way he carried himself, things he said, way he fought, way he thought.

Who else is worthy of this title? For, say, 1980 and onwards.

Mike Tyson?

Clubber Lang.

[Duodenum]

Clubber Lang.Naw, Balboa beat the crap outta him in their rematch.

[Muchmoore]

Naw, Balboa beat the crap outta him in their rematch.

Lang was past his best and overlooked him. Balboa never gave him a rubber match.

[salsanchezfan]

Hagler trumps Tyson every time. Hagler was legitimately tough, both physically and mentally. Nothing derailed him, nothing swayed him from what he was clearly born to do. Tyson was just a street thug with power and fast hands. Show him a ***** in his armor, and..........well, we see where he is now.

[Muchmoore]

Hagler trumps Tyson every time. Hagler was legitimately tough, both physically and mentally. Nothing derailed him, nothing swayed him from what he was clearly born to do. Tyson was just a street thug with power and fast hands. Show him a ***** in his armor, and..........well, we see where he is now.

People were terrified against Tyson. From 86-90 everybody thought he was invincible. This isn't "Who's the best and toughest fighter" it's who is the baddest mofo. Hagler wasn't always fearsome and people weren't as scared of him as they were with Tyson.

Theres a reason he was called baddest man on the planet.

[salsanchezfan]

People were terrified against Tyson. From 86-90 everybody thought he was invincible. This isn't "Who's the best and toughest fighter" it's who is the baddest mofo. Hagler wasn't always fearsome and people weren't as scared of him as they were with Tyson.

Theres a reason he was called baddest man on the planet.


..............Meh. People were afraid of him because he was a bully with a lot of muscles and a bad attitude. Doesn't make you a "bad mofo." A bad mofo is a legitimate tough guy, and Tyson wasn't legitimately tough.

Just because people are afraid of you doesn't make you what they think of you.

[Muchmoore]

..............Meh. People were afraid of him because he was a bully with a lot of muscles and a bad attitude. Doesn't make you a "bad mofo." A bad mofo is a legitimate tough guy, and Tyson wasn't legitimately tough.

Just because people are afraid of you doesn't make you what they think of you.

Tyson was as rough and tough as they come. The way he acted, the way he looked, and the way he destroyed fighter after fighter for years definently made him a bad mofo. Tyson was legitimately tough, Buster Douglas WHUPPED him for 8 rounds and with Tysons eye completely swelled up he rallies to drop Douglas. He took his beating as good as anyone could of. Ruddock also hit him with monster punches and he walked through them like nothing.

[salsanchezfan]

Tyson was as rough and tough as they come. The way he acted, the way he looked, and the way he destroyed fighter after fighter for years definently made him a bad mofo. Tyson was legitimately tough, Buster Douglas WHUPPED him for 8 rounds and with Tysons eye completely swelled up he rallies to drop Douglas. He took his beating as good as anyone could of. Ruddock also hit him with monster punches and he walked through them like nothing.


.............Perhaps we should chalk this up to different definitions of "bad mofo." I define it as a fighter with equal parts toughness in physical, emotional, and mental arenas. You seem to define it as some snarling guy who scroes a bunch of knockouts.


I'll just ask this; can you picture Hagler caving and biting the ear off an opponent? That was a huge sign of weakness.

[Muchmoore]

.............Perhaps we should chalk this up to different definitions of "bad mofo." I define it as a fighter with equal parts toughness in physical, emotional, and mental arenas. You seem to define it as some snarling guy who scroes a bunch of knockouts.


I'll just ask this; can you picture Hagler caving and biting the ear off an opponent? That was a huge sign of weakness.

That was Tyson after he went to jail and was way more mentally unstable than the 80s Tyson. Tyson after jail was considerably more crazy and unstable than the 80s one who was a bad mofo.

A bad mofo is a tough, rough guy who is going to try to take your head off and not going to get derailed. Being a bit of a thug also plays a part.

[buzzsaw]

Don King
: Conan! What is best in life?

Iron Mike
: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.

Don King
: That is good! That is good.

[salsanchezfan]

That was Tyson after he went to jail and was way more mentally unstable than the 80s Tyson. Tyson after jail was considerably more crazy and unstable than the 80s one who was a bad mofo.

A bad mofo is a tough, rough guy who is going to try to take your head off and not going to get derailed. Being a bit of a thug also plays a part.


............Being a thug is also a sign of weakness, but I guess we'll never come to a concensus, as we see the most basic ideas in completely opposite ways.

[enquirer]

I will take roberto duran as the baddest of our era....
A 5ft 7 inch guy with a 67 inch reach fighting and competing with hagler,hearns,barkley,leonard and others at divisions much higher than his natural weight and kicking ass and hanging tough with them....Can you imagine any lightweight champ in history beating leonard,going 15 close rounds with marv at MIDDLE,and beating a huge MIDDLE/LT HEAVY for a middle title in barkley? Also not forgetting whipping davey moore and cuevas at lt middle,and palmino at welter.....
Just look at his fight with barkley and see the size disparity,basically a welter in with a lt heavy,and see roberto brawl with barkley and take barkleys head and body shots while dishing out tremendous punches himself....Duran at his best was probably the most intense and savage fighter i have ever seen.....
I loved his reply when he was asked about how he would fare in a street fight with ali or foreman....? Reply; 'I kick the shit out of him'.... :rasta

[Bummy Davis]

I like Hagler as a person and fighter, he was a top middle of our times but when he got in there with a skilled and experienced fighter, he too had his differculties(an Older Duran blown up from 135lbs took him to school) Vito(less skilled) met him heart to heart and won in there Draw and Ray Leonard and Dundee outsmarted him in there fight but in fights that he just went out and fought hard like the smooth 2 fisted southpaw that he was(Hearns,Mugabi,Hamsho,Minter,Sibson,Fugy,Roldan) he was brilliant and stood out as the best

[laxpdx]

Tony Ayala. In some ways he was; it was for those specific reasons he went to jail.

As for boxing, Tony was a definite would've been, in my book. He had all the ingredients. Talent, toughness, and a rage to match. El Torito would've been Hagler's toughest test.

[Street Lethal]

Tyson's persona was in part manufactured. Hagler's was completely earned. I loved the way he gestured to Mugabi to get back up after the knockdown. Mugabi was like, "Are you kidding me? And take more of those hooks?"

Hagler was a bad mofo.

[Manassa]

There was no letting up with Hagler. He didn't hold back at all when Hamani was rendered useless on the ropes.

[Duodenum]

Lang was past his best and overlooked him. Balboa never gave him a rubber match.Well, if they both continue taking their 'roids, maybe they can have that rubber match next year. (The way that franchise keeps on going, maybe they should hire George Romero to promote it.)

[Titan1]

Definitely Marvelous Marvin Hagler.The Shaft of our era.

[bill poster]

Mike Tyson was an animal.. but he was more the bully type who can't take getting beat.
Hagler was the quintessential bad-ass!! He looked like a black ming the merciless [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[bladerunner]

Hagler is a great choice and so is Duran.
since the 90´s it has to be Erik Morales.

[hdog]

Looked bad against Hearns but didn't look so bad against when Vito A. walked through everything he had in the first fight, didn't look so bad against Duran, either.

Does a bad guy legally change his name to "Marvelous" because he's jealous that everyone called Leonard "Sugar?"

[Street Lethal]

I like Hagler as a person and fighter, he was a top middle of our times but when he got in there with a skilled and experienced fighter, he too had his differculties(an Older Duran blown up from 135lbs took him to school) Vito(less skilled) met him heart to heart and won in there Draw and Ray Leonard and Dundee outsmarted him in there fight but in fights that he just went out and fought hard like the smooth 2 fisted southpaw that he was(Hearns,Mugabi,Hamsho,Minter,Sibson,Fugy,Roldan) he was brilliant and stood out as the best

Hagler outboxed Duran, so I wouldn't say Duran took him to school. Duran wasn't just any ordinary blown-up lightweight. He beat Carlos Palomino and Sugar Ray Leonard at welterweight and Pipino Cuevas, Davey Moore, and Iran Barkley at middleweight.

[buzzsaw]

Hagler -struggled w/Duran a lightweight
Duran- "No Mas"
Tyson -was exposed in upset of the century
Tony Ayala was the Baddest

[Titan1]

Hagler -struggled w/Duran a lightweight
Duran- "No Mas"
Tyson -was exposed in upset of the century
Tony Ayala was the Baddest

Ayala was getting ready to be exposed when the unfortunate incidents in his life took over.

[Mantequilla]

Ayala was nothing but scum.

[Longhhorn71]

Nigel Benn vs Hagler at their most ferociousness would have been a war.

[enquirer]

Benn was indeed ferocious in his early middle days and would have been good for a short while but haglers sharp counterpunching would have reduced benn to rubble within three rounds tops.....Now benn in his later career at supermiddle would have lasted longer but still hagler would have whipped him.....Hagler loved come froward agressive punchers in his prime.....

[buzzsaw]

Ayala was nothing but scum.

Yes we all found out what type of person he was outside of the ropes and he was rightfully punished. But before he was convicted he was just walking through the jr mid weight class.

[JohnThomas1]

Yes we all found out what type of person he was outside of the ropes and he was rightfully punished. But before he was convicted he was just walking through the jr mid weight class.

He didn't fight a single top 10 opponent tho did he?

[Titan1]

Davey Moore was waiting for him.

[laxpdx]

Yes we all found out what type of person he was outside of the ropes and he was rightfully punished. But before he was convicted he was just walking through the jr mid weight class.

He was sure to walk over Moore, Duran, Benitez, and Hearns.

[laxpdx]

Davey Moore was waiting for him.

Davey Moore had to have been thankful Tony never arrived. But it's a double-edged sword. Duran arrived instead. Davey Moore gave a new meaning to the phrase "ill-fated"...... God rest his soul.

[Titan1]

Davey Moore was waiting for him.

Davey Moore had to have been thankful Tony never arrived. But it's a double-edged sword. Duran arrived instead. Davey Moore gave a new meaning to the phrase "ill-fated"...... God rest his soul.

All Davey had to do was to get Ayala into the mid and late rounds, and then he would've gotten him.Ayala had nice power, but was never truly tested.

[enquirer]

You saying ayala would have walked over duran,hearns and benitez?
Post some footage of this mythical god......He must be better than hagler leonard and robinson combined.......Are you his brother or something?

[redrooster]

Tony was the real deal. You all just don't know it. Tony was the new Harry Greb-just as nasty but with power in both hands. IMO, better than Mike Tyson could ever be but his career was cut short.

What Mantequilla said was right but I'm talking about what he could do inside the ring with his fists. And together with Macho Camacho, was the prospect of 1982-the sure thing, the right stuff, and future champion. a lock to become future champ and the only way it could be prevented was to keep him from fighting.

I favor Tony because he's younger, and naturally bigger and stronger and can punch holes thru most people. Benitez and Duran were dinosaurs. But Tommy with his youth and the fact that hadn't even reached his prime, would be expected to compete in a few years, maybe after Hagler finished with him.

[Stewbear]

Tyson a bad guy not baddest mofo lol
Anyway has to be Duran look at him in Hagler fight but Hagler also great pick.

[Thread Stealer]

Looked bad against Hearns but didn't look so bad against when Vito A. walked through everything he had in the first fight, didn't look so bad against Duran, either.

Does a bad guy legally change his name to "Marvelous" because he's jealous that everyone called Leonard "Sugar?"

:lol:

For real. As much as I respect him as a boxer and have defended his skills (countless times from the newbies and casual fans that think he was a brawler without a lot of skill), he was kind of a whiner. "Nobody loves me like they love Gay Ray, so I'll legally change my name to feel more loved".

20 years after the Leonard fight, Hagler still whines about the decision whenever I see him talking about it. He's as bad as that one linebacker for the Raiders talking about the Immaculate Reception.

I don't think he looked bad against Hearns at all, though. I thought it was a brilliant performance which showed how he could fight out of character to succeed against a great fighter, and he had to take a big risk in order to do so.

[Dostoevsky]

I would put Duran at the top but the quitting against leonard and the brutal knockout loss to Hearns keeps him off the topshot.

Hagler takes it.