bert sugar

[ryan8331]

does anyone have boxings greatest fighters by bert sugar?
what do you think to his list?
do you like his writing style?
i really enjoyed reading it,i didnt agree with some of the placements like tyson at 100 and lamotta at 27.not saying i could do better ofcourse.
i do find him very irritating to look at and listen to though,
also,whats the deal with the permanently unlit cigar?smoke it already!!

[DFW]

Bert Sugar is an expert on the subject of boxing. I have heard him countless times on many TV programs; fights, documentaries etc. I have no use for the man. Back in the 1970's Bert Sugar took over the boxing magazine, Boxing Illustrated. As a youngster I became an avid boxing fan and each Xmas my mother would subscribe to this magazine as a gift for me. I couldn't wait to see this each month in our mailbox. All of a sudden the magazine stopped coming. I remember at the time Mom had given me a two year subscription and there were still 21 monthly issues due for me to receive. They went out of business and Bert Sugar and all of the other crooks in with him flew the coop with my mother's hard earned money and deprived me of my magazine. When I hear his name mentioned I still get mad. But as a Christian I do forgive even a thief like him. NUFF SAID!!!!!!

[klompton]

Bert Suger is not an expert on boxing. He is self promoter who has chosen boxing as his nitch. All he does is regurgitate old ring magazine stories, many of which arent even true. Hes never actually done the leg work or research to try to get the stories right.

[TIGEREDGE]

love the guy. great knowledge, great forecaster of a fight. funny guy.

he is always willing to do interviews for various small boxing websites

[TIGEREDGE]

love the guy. great knowledge, great forecaster of a fight. funny guy.

he is always willing to do interviews for various small boxing websites

[The Wanderer]

Sugar's got his prejudices and blind spots like anyone else, and his favorites who you can't get him to say a word against, (for example he has a hardon the size of Panama for Roberto Duran) but overall he doesn't seem half bad and he certainly knows how to tell a good tale. I've read some of his greatest boxers book while browsing in the book store, and some parts of it had me laughing out loud from the way he'd turn certain phrases or tell certain stories.

[Robbi]

His ATG heavyweight list has Charles over Lewis. Truely utterly astounding opinion. Crazyness.

[D-MAC]

I like him: seems to have a good grasp of the game and has an entertaining style.

[The Wanderer]

His ATG heavyweight list has Charles over Lewis. Truely utterly astounding opinion. Crazyness.

That is crazy. :shock:

I don't know what Sugar's pedigree in the sport is, like I said earlier his greatest skill is how he tells a story. It's one thing to know something, it's quite another to be able to tell it in a way that engages the audience and grips the imagination.

[Loewe]

Sugar's got his prejudices and blind spots like anyone else, and his favorites who you can't get him to say a word against, (for example he has a hardon the size of Panama for Roberto Duran) but overall he doesn't seem half bad and he certainly knows how to tell a good tale. I've read some of his greatest boxers book while browsing in the book store, and some parts of it had me laughing out loud from the way he'd turn certain phrases or tell certain stories.

Panama isn´t that big :tong

[salsanchezfan]

............I have the original version of that book published in 1984, when the likes of Tyson, Holyfield and Whitaker hadn't yet had a pro fight. It's probably a bit different than the one you have.

Choices I strongly disagree with in the 1984 version:


Max Baer at #73 (ahead of Hagler, Manuel Ortiz, Fighting Harada, etc). Baer doesn't belong anywhere in the zip code of a top 100 list.


Jack Dempsey at #4 - Patently ridiculous.

Alexis Aguello at #72 - Should be given more credit.



..........Lamotta is at #27, eh? That's weird, 'cause in the 1984 version he lists him at #43.

Nice to know he can at least shuffle things about a bit.

Like most, Sugar is guilty of horribly overrating heavyweights.

[tommy the hat]

Yes I do have the book. Bert really knows his boxing history. There is probably not a fighter he doesnt know about. That being said I dont agree with all of his choices for the book or how high or low he has some the fighters he chose ranked.

[Bill Butcher]

Jack Dempsey at #4

Alexis Aguello at #72

Top line - :lol:

2nd line - :-(


I tried my best to laugh at Arguello`s ranking but all I felt was sadness for the writer.

[ryan8331]

............I have the original version of that book published in 1984, when the likes of Tyson, Holyfield and Whitaker hadn't yet had a pro fight. It's probably a bit different than the one you have.

Choices I strongly disagree with in the 1984 version:


Max Baer at #73 (ahead of Hagler, Manuel Ortiz, Fighting Harada, etc). Baer doesn't belong anywhere in the zip code of a top 100 list.


Jack Dempsey at #4 - Patently ridiculous.

Alexis Aguello at #72 - Should be given more credit.



..........Lamotta is at #27, eh? That's weird, 'cause in the 1984 version he lists him at #43.

Nice to know he can at least shuffle things about a bit.

Like most, Sugar is guilty of horribly overrating heavyweights.
yeah,he does seem to have alot of heavies in here,especially old timers.it has jack o'brien at 67.
this is the 2006 edition.id like to see how it compares
dempsey is at 9,arguello at 56 and max baer's not in it.i massivly disagree with putting foreman at 31,apparantly he could only find 30 fighters better than big george in the history of the sport.

[salsanchezfan]

yeah,he does seem to have alot of heavies in here,especially old timers.it has jack o'brien at 67.
this is the 2006 edition.id like to see how it compares
dempsey is at 9,arguello at 56 and max baer's not in it.i massivly disagree with putting foreman at 31,apparantly he could only find 30 fighters better than big george in the history of the sport.



............Out of curiosity, where does he rank Chavez? He's not in my version, obviously. It was written before he won his first title.

Here's the top ten as of 1984:

Robinson
Armstrong
Greb
Dempsey
Benny Leonard
Joe Louis
Mickey Walker
Langford
Canzoneri
Ali


The top three are pretty much everyone's consensus, and after that he goes off the beam a bit.

[Seamus]

Bert Sugar has never told a story I have not heard before and heard told better. He is a caricature and nothing more. I would not pay one penny for his pithy and tired insights.

[ryan8331]

............Out of curiosity, where does he rank Chavez? He's not in my version, obviously. It was written before he won his first title.

Here's the top ten as of 1984:

Robinson
Armstrong
Greb
Dempsey
Benny Leonard
Joe Louis
Mickey Walker
Langford
Canzoneri
Ali


The top three are pretty much everyone's consensus, and after that he goes off the beam a bit.
1 ray robinson
2 henry armstrong
3 willie pep
4 joe louis
5 harry greb
6 benny leonard
7 muhammed ali
8 roberto duran
9 jack dempsey
10 jack johnson

chavez is 17th.
a few more new ones
holyfield at 42
holmes at 45
whitaker at 48
hearns at 50
ricardo lopez at 53
roy jones at 88
hopkins at 91
tyson at 100
sanchez is at 85

[mcvey]

Bert Sugar is an expert on the subject of boxing. I have heard him countless times on many TV programs; fights, documentaries etc. I have no use for the man. Back in the 1970's Bert Sugar took over the boxing magazine, Boxing Illustrated. As a youngster I became an avid boxing fan and each Xmas my mother would subscribe to this magazine as a gift for me. I couldn't wait to see this each month in our mailbox. All of a sudden the magazine stopped coming. I remember at the time Mom had given me a two year subscription and there were still 21 monthly issues due for me to receive. They went out of business and Bert Sugar and all of the other crooks in with him flew the coop with my mother's hard earned money and deprived me of my magazine. When I hear his name mentioned I still get mad. But as a Christian I do forgive even a thief like him. NUFF SAID!!!!!!
Bert Sugar is an expert at keeping his bald head covered up!

[DFW]

So that's why he always wears a hat? That is a good thing. At least the glare won't damage our eyes.

[heehoo]

I like his books and I listen to his stories.

[TIGEREDGE]

1 ray robinson
2 henry armstrong
3 willie pep
4 joe louis
5 harry greb
6 benny leonard
7 muhammed ali
8 roberto duran
9 jack dempsey
10 jack johnson

chavez is 17th.
a few more new ones
holyfield at 42
holmes at 45
whitaker at 48
hearns at 50
ricardo lopez at 53
roy jones at 88
hopkins at 91
tyson at 100
sanchez is at 85

thats a great top 5 IMO. i don't agree with dempsey being so high. i think he overates the old timers a bit but apart from JD there is noting there that i would disagree too much with him

[Vantage_West]

he was asked about cottos chin before the judah fight and his repsonse was "well it's more about judahs chin. as he is of a majority that have knocked down twice with one punch"

yeah but we asked your opinions about cotto not about judahs chin....and in that why are you telling us this it doesnt make a difference. zoo was a compltely different fighter to cotto also he used ranged shots to get to his........ oh forget it, tell your stories about how everything in brown and grey is far more impressive.

he made the carpentier-dempsey fight a clash of the titans...even tho a nice story...it was a bit of a let down. it was clear carpentier was too small and when he did throw a combination (that did stun dempsey a bit) it was quickly muffled over and usual service recommensed.




i personally belive that we have way way way better story tellers,knowledicians and librairians on esb than those guys at the press conferences. why the hell dont we start a esb tv show. hell we could prolly get some unlit cigars and a panama hats and a failed basball writer career with it to.

anyone with me

[Bill1234]

He completely overrates some, and underrates others. Having guys like Frazier, Holyfield, and Foreman in the top 40, but having Holmes and Hagler between 45-50 is bad. Also Tyson at 100 is underrating him. He's a great story teller (sounds better in person) and I find him entertaining.

[klompton]

Bert Sugar has never told a story I have not heard before and heard told better. He is a caricature and nothing more. I would not pay one penny for his pithy and tired insights.

The above statement is dead on and sums up Sugar to a "T"

[teeto]

Imo Sugar is a great story teller and clearly has a genuine passion for the sport, but in terms of his lists and analysing greatness and legacy he's not too good, and biased he is also,

[Robbi]

The Ring had one of it's best periods when Sugar was the editor during the early 80's. I have all of the 83 and 84 issues, also some from 82.

[cuchulain]

does anyone have boxings greatest fighters by bert sugar?
what do you think to his list?
do you like his writing style?
i really enjoyed reading it,i didnt agree with some of the placements like tyson at 100 and lamotta at 27.not saying i could do better ofcourse.
i do find him very irritating to look at and listen to though,
also,whats the deal with the permanently unlit cigar?smoke it already!!


His list is fuckin' dreadful.


(He's a non-smoker).

[Mendoza]

does anyone have boxings greatest fighters by bert sugar?
what do you think to his list?
do you like his writing style?
i really enjoyed reading it,i didnt agree with some of the placements like tyson at 100 and lamotta at 27.not saying i could do better ofcourse.
i do find him very irritating to look at and listen to though,
also,whats the deal with the permanently unlit cigar?smoke it already!!

The book is a good one. I think Sugar had some aid writing the book. As for his choices, Sugar has his favorites for sure. Tyson at 100 was a throw in for marketing reasons by Sugar.

I agree, Sugar tells a good story. Sometimes he's a little out there, but I hope he sticks around for many years.

[Rebel-INS]

thats a great top 5 IMO. i don't agree with dempsey being so high. i think he overates the old timers a bit but apart from JD there is noting there that i would disagree too much with him

Joe Louis should not be in the top five, definitely not ahead of Benny Leonard.

[salsanchezfan]

...............A better book of Sugar's is "The Great Fights" written in 1981. Covers the ins and outs of such fights as Johnson-Jeffries, Armstrong-Ross, Louis-Schmeling II, Robinson-Lamotta VI, Basilio-Robinson I, Moore-Durelle I, Ali-Frazier III, Saad-LOpez II, and Leonard-Hearns I. His writing style tends to be a bit heavy on the usual jokes told a million times and he leans a bit heavily on historic rather than truly "great fights" but it's worth looking at.

[Executioner]

he overrates the fuckng hell out of the fighters from his 1830's era. :yep