View Full Version : Rashad beats ANY version of Chuck
scurlaruntings
09-09-2008, 08:29 AM
It was clear from the outset of this fight that Chucks fabled counter punching was immediately negated by Evans much more savvy boxing. He was quicker, more accurate more polished and far more elusive than Chuck thought.
For years Chuck has got away with sloppy technique and to be frank has not evolved with MMA. Evans was timing that over hand counter since the beginning of the fight and Chuck with his usual probing low left was surely bound to eat a right hand which he did throughout the bout and hence the cut.
Evans has always been a crafty counter puncher with underrated striking. His not pleasing to watch because his so conservative. But when he does let loose its highlight reel material.
québecwarrior
09-09-2008, 01:31 PM
I don't agree
A prime Liddell with His speed and his reflexe that he had, combined with his power who is disminished because of lost of speed, is enough to KO that version of Evans.
Evans is nothing special, and Liddell is 38 years old. He is clearly on the decline.
Couture, is just an exception.
scurlaruntings
09-09-2008, 01:40 PM
I don't agree
A prime Liddell with His speed and his reflexe that he had, combined with his power who is disminished because of lost of speed, is enough to KO that version of Evans.
Evans is nothing special, and Liddell is 38 years old. He is clearly on the decline.
Couture, is just an exception.Agred he is certainly on the decline as his lifestyle isnt as clean as Randys. But Liddell does nothing diffrent to what he used to do when he was younger. His always been an effective counter puncher but thats immediately negated as soon as he meets someone who`s a better striker than him. The fact of the matter is Evans and Rampage are far more polished strikers than Liddell and better at what Liddell is best at. Because Liddell is so wide open defensively ironically his very easy to counter. That over hand right was very similar to the same punch that Rampage used in there second bout that caught Liddell completely unaware.
québecwarrior
09-09-2008, 01:48 PM
yeah, that's because of a loss of reflexe I think + bad technic.
But you are right, the biggest negative thing about Liddell career, is his lifestyle ala Ricky Hatton.
chimba
09-09-2008, 01:52 PM
I agree. Lidell has never changed. He has been a product of savvy matchmaking by the UFC (not to insinuate that he was a fraud coz he is not). He was an exciting fighter with alot of heart..he makes people watch and was a great champion.
But he would always have problems with great strikers...I mean he had problems with Vernon White who was a an above average striker and a welterweight. Had problems with overeem as well.
Chuck matches up well with wrestlers or submission guys just becausde he had an excellent TD defense
scurlaruntings
09-09-2008, 02:42 PM
I agree. Lidell has never changed. He has been a product of savvy matchmaking by the UFC (not to insinuate that he was a fraud coz he is not). He was an exciting fighter with alot of heart..he makes people watch and was a great champion.
But he would always have problems with great strikers...I mean he had problems with Vernon White who was a an above average striker and a welterweight. Had problems with overeem as well.
Chuck matches up well with wrestlers or submission guys just becausde he had an excellent TD defenseThats it in a nutshell. When he fought Overeem he was shook to the sole of his boots in the early stages of the fight but he recovered. If Overeems chin wasnt as poor the result possibly may have been diffrent. But either way up against a good striker and Chuck is totally nullified.
Beebs
09-09-2008, 02:42 PM
He knocked two of the best strikers at 205 into a coma in a prime Mezger and Overeem.
scurlaruntings
09-09-2008, 02:48 PM
He knocked two of the best strikers at 205 into a coma in a prime Mezger and Overeem.Not discounting his win over Overeem who is a solid opponent but look what happened when he faced Rampage later on in the tourny. Overeem is a nice striker but that guy has an awful chin as well as zero survival instincts and sloppy striking. Great win for Chuck but i wouldnt call Overeem one of the premier strikers at 205. The guys just too fragile and way too inconsistent.
jimmie
09-09-2008, 03:17 PM
Liddell of 04-06 murders Rashad.
scurlaruntings
09-09-2008, 03:21 PM
Liddell of 04-06 murders Rashad.I guess its all moot as back then Rashad was still essentially a fledgling in MMA and Liddell was an accomplished pro. Either way Evans striking IS way more refined than Chucks which has been exposed.
iksrtfo
09-09-2008, 10:34 PM
nah.
I saw it coming. Evans wasn't throwing shit and running. Chuck was just on the offensive stalking him down. They were like damn near into the middle of the fight and then rashad throws on punch and it connects. It's not like he beat chucks ass. He landed a ko shot.
I saw it coming when chuck was pawing the left and bringing it back low. It was like the only thing on his mind was landing his right hand.
iksrtfo
09-09-2008, 10:35 PM
I guess its all moot as back then Rashad was still essentially a fledgling in MMA and Liddell was an accomplished pro. Either way Evans striking IS way more refined than Chucks which has been exposed.
Yeah but looking sharp and refined doesn't equal better in the UFC. Look at Silvia. His sloppy striking outstruck better looking strikers.
jimmie
09-09-2008, 10:56 PM
I guess its all moot as back then Rashad was still essentially a fledgling in MMA and Liddell was an accomplished pro. Either way Evans striking IS way more refined than Chucks which has been exposed.
Oh no doubt man on Monday when I did boxing class first thing our coach had us do it throw a proper uppercut cause he brought up how Chuck threw basically a armpunch uppercut and left his left hand at his waist. Chucks a crappy striker he just has great power and for a period of time was able to use good movement and create angles leading guys into him to get KOed cold. Agianst Rashad,Randy in the 1st bout,Jardine,Rampage they where set on not coming forward and eventually Chuck got fustrated and he would come forward where hes horrible at he doesnt have the striking for it. I know he beat Wanderlei recently but hell even Wanderleis got crappy striking its like a drunk retarted person when he uses his hands hes just got good agressivness and power. His clinch is top level though atleast for MMA.
Hermit
09-09-2008, 11:15 PM
I know he beat Wanderlei recently but hell even Wanderleis got crappy striking its like a drunk retarted person when he uses his hands hes just got good agressivness and power. His clinch is top level though atleast for MMA.
That was an ill advised fight for Wandy since he hadn't fought for a while. He started looking better in his last fight. Not sure how far back he will make it though. I'd love to see Silva of old.
scurlaruntings
09-10-2008, 04:09 AM
Oh no doubt man on Monday when I did boxing class first thing our coach had us do it throw a proper uppercut cause he brought up how Chuck threw basically a armpunch uppercut and left his left hand at his waist. Chucks a crappy striker he just has great power and for a period of time was able to use good movement and create angles leading guys into him to get KOed cold. Agianst Rashad,Randy in the 1st bout,Jardine,Rampage they where set on not coming forward and eventually Chuck got fustrated and he would come forward where hes horrible at he doesnt have the striking for it. I know he beat Wanderlei recently but hell even Wanderleis got crappy striking its like a drunk retarted person when he uses his hands hes just got good agressivness and power. His clinch is top level though atleast for MMA.Thats the truth. As much as i like Wandy his boxing technique is awful. Strange for a guy who`s main strength is his Muay Thai..
jimmie
09-10-2008, 10:25 PM
That was an ill advised fight for Wandy since he hadn't fought for a while. He started looking better in his last fight. Not sure how far back he will make it though. I'd love to see Silva of old.
It was 9 months people have gone without fighting longer. Liddell kicked his ass plain and simple. Liddell had gone the same amount of time before fighting Rashad is that his excuse for losing ?
Hermit
09-10-2008, 10:43 PM
It was 9 months people have gone without fighting longer. Liddell kicked his ass plain and simple. Liddell had gone the same amount of time before fighting Rashad is that his excuse for losing ?
Like I said. It wasn't the "Silva of old". I don't know if we will ever see him again. I hope so.
scurlaruntings
09-11-2008, 04:33 AM
Like I said. It wasn't the "Silva of old". I don't know if we will ever see him again. I hope so.Silva`s finished as a top class fighter.
Silva`s finished as a top class fighter.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing...
Until he demolished a top 10 LHW in Keith Jardine.
scurlaruntings
09-11-2008, 05:22 AM
Funny, I was thinking the same thing...
Until he demolished a top 10 LHW in Keith Jardine.Merely a fluke.Jardine has never been anything special irrespective of his win over Chuck and Griffin. That did surprise me il admit. And im one of Silva`s biggest fans. But that dude was never the same after the Mark Hunt fight. He got fucked by CC in the OWGP and i mean fucked. That was one of the worst beatings iv ever seen in a PRIDE ring. He then got knocked out cold by Hendo in his next bout. Silva`s done mate seriously. All he fights on is fumes and his own Brazlian pride.
jimmie
09-11-2008, 10:40 PM
Merely a fluke.Jardine has never been anything special irrespective of his win over Chuck and Griffin. That did surprise me il admit. And im one of Silva`s biggest fans. But that dude was never the same after the Mark Hunt fight. He got fucked by CC in the OWGP and i mean fucked. That was one of the worst beatings iv ever seen in a PRIDE ring. He then got knocked out cold by Hendo in his next bout. Silva`s done mate seriously. All he fights on is fumes and his own Brazlian pride.
What would you say if Wanderlei goes on to become Champion ? I have a feeling your just trying to make an excuse to why the great Pride 205er lost to the UFCs great 205er.
What would you say if Wanderlei goes on to become Champion ? I have a feeling your just trying to make an excuse to why the great Pride 205er lost to the UFCs great 205er.
yep, I remembering hearing the same crap about Rampage when he came over....he was suppose to be finished after his loses to Wand and Shogun. News flash!!!! A guy can have a couple loses and still be the same fighter he was before and some times better.
jimmie
09-11-2008, 11:41 PM
yep, I remembering hearing the same crap about Rampage when he came over....he was suppose to be finished after his loses to Wand and Shogun. News flash!!!! A guy can have a couple loses and still be the same fighter he was before and some times better.
No no your wrong Rampage is a shot fighter thats why he lost to Griffin didnt you already know that :patsch Liddell just sucks and Henderson was shot to thats why Rampage beat them. Pride fans need there excuses like Rampage is a pyscho,Wanderlei hasnt been the same since 04 and just isnt as agressive or hasnt been fighting as much,Shoguns knee problem ETC
ufoalf
09-12-2008, 12:24 AM
No no your wrong Rampage is a shot fighter thats why he lost to Griffin didnt you already know that :patsch Liddell just sucks and Henderson was shot to thats why Rampage beat them. Pride fans need there excuses like Rampage is a pyscho,Wanderlei hasnt been the same since 04 and just isnt as agressive or hasnt been fighting as much,Shoguns knee problem ETC
lol, Liddell's game has just been figured out IMO. Yea, shogun does have knee problems. And yes Nogueira isn't the same either. It is what it is. You sound like all UFC fighters are better then ex-Pride fighters... you're crazy. Many of Pride greats are just weathered. They were greats from 2000-2004 era. Thats long time ago bro. Same goes for Hughes, Liddell etc. Time takes it's toll physically and mentally at some point.
Polymath
09-12-2008, 01:08 AM
No no your wrong Rampage is a shot fighter thats why he lost to Griffin didnt you already know that :patsch Liddell just sucks and Henderson was shot to thats why Rampage beat them. Pride fans need there excuses like Rampage is a pyscho,Wanderlei hasnt been the same since 04 and just isnt as agressive or hasnt been fighting as much,Shoguns knee problem ETC
cock
Merely a fluke.Jardine has never been anything special irrespective of his win over Chuck and Griffin. That did surprise me il admit. And im one of Silva`s biggest fans. But that dude was never the same after the Mark Hunt fight. He got fucked by CC in the OWGP and i mean fucked. That was one of the worst beatings iv ever seen in a PRIDE ring. He then got knocked out cold by Hendo in his next bout. Silva`s done mate seriously. All he fights on is fumes and his own Brazlian pride.
Before his loss to CC, Wand dominated a tough Pride veteran in Fujita. And I don't really count Silva's loss against Hendo. He was really sick prior to the fight and you could tell that he didn't look himself. If Wand would've came out more agressive in the Liddell fight, I think he would've won. And I'm not a Silva nuthugger either. I'm just stating my opinion.
Polymath
09-12-2008, 03:38 AM
Yeah but looking sharp and refined doesn't equal better in the UFC. Look at Silvia. His sloppy striking outstruck better looking strikers.
Tim Sylvia? He's a pretty crisp puncher, if nothing else.
Watch his fight vs Gan McGee and see how successful his refined style was against a real sloppy striker.
Theres this tired BS cliche in mma that sloppy crappy striking is more effective because some wild swinging caveman ocassionally knocks out someone equally wild with a lopping right hand - well crappy technique is still crappy and will usually lose out 'vs' better technique ('duh') - the progenitor of these "weird angles" shit is actaully Chuck Liddell, and look at his losses, especially vs Jardine and Evans (more so even than RAmpage) :good
québecwarrior
09-12-2008, 09:17 AM
Before his loss to CC, Wand dominated a tough Pride veteran in Fujita. And I don't really count Silva's loss against Hendo. He was really sick prior to the fight and you could tell that he didn't look himself. If Wand would've came out more agressive in the Liddell fight, I think he would've won. And I'm not a Silva nuthugger either. I'm just stating my opinion.
that's where you are wrong
more agressive vs Liddell = KO for Liddell
Liddell eats agressive guy
scurlaruntings
09-12-2008, 02:25 PM
What would you say if Wanderlei goes on to become Champion ? I have a feeling your just trying to make an excuse to why the great Pride 205er lost to the UFCs great 205er.Excuse? What you talking about? Cant win with you UFC drones!! Wandys done man. Id love him to be the same Wandy from 10 years ago. But this guys got alot of mileage and a ton of scar tissue. To think his not done is asinine. Look at his style. Fuck it looks at is face!
scurlaruntings
09-12-2008, 02:27 PM
Before his loss to CC, Wand dominated a tough Pride veteran in Fujita. And I don't really count Silva's loss against Hendo. He was really sick prior to the fight and you could tell that he didn't look himself. If Wand would've came out more agressive in the Liddell fight, I think he would've won. And I'm not a Silva nuthugger either. I'm just stating my opinion.Agreed but i saw both his losses and they were brutal. Wandy has had a long career. To think his still in his prime and not even close to being shot is backward.
scurlaruntings
09-12-2008, 02:30 PM
yep, I remembering hearing the same crap about Rampage when he came over....he was suppose to be finished after his loses to Wand and Shogun. News flash!!!! A guy can have a couple loses and still be the same fighter he was before and some times better.Hindsights a wonderful tool isnt it? Rampage gets his face cracked open by Wandy. Takes the worst beating of his life. Some think mentally his done. He does the unthinkable and wins the UFC LHW title and your talking crap as though you just knew he was ok? Get the fuck out of here with that fortune cookie bullshit.
Agreed but i saw both his losses and they were brutal. Wandy has had a long career. To think his still in his prime and not even close to being shot is backward.
I never said Wand was in his prime. I just think he's not "shot" like the rest of you think. If you wanna look at a fighter who is done, take a look at Nog. And I love Nog.
scurlaruntings
09-12-2008, 04:30 PM
I never said Wand was in his prime. I just think he's not "shot" like the rest of you think. If you wanna look at a fighter who is done, take a look at Nog. And I love Nog.At least Nog is winning! Now how you going to say Nog is shot and Wandy isnt?!?! :patsch
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