Flashes of greatness...

[Russell]

We sometimes talk about boxers who had great potential but never lived up to it... Well, what boxers were there that fufilled their potential greatness if only for one brilliant match?

Ross Puritty showed he truly had an iron chin, a big heart, and good enough endurance to bring Wladimir to his limits and beyond in his own backyard.

Buster Douglas had his night in Tokyo against Tyson.

Back to back, Jimmy Young came out on top against Lyle, and more importantly, Foreman.

What'cha got?

[McGrain]

Joe Calzaghe and Jeff Lacey, who fought each other. Cal looks like a world class talent, but never proved it and Lacey looked really special v Vanderpool but was decimated by Calzaghe...plenty going on in there isn't there? The Kessler fight will be very interesting.

I think that Battlink Siki could have been an ATG top ten middle if he'd spent his career there and I think Patterson could have been the greatest LHW if he'd stayed there, though i'm not accusing either of these two of mere flashes.

[Russell]

Wlad had 24 fights under his belt at that point. Green, sure, but he wasn't thrown to the wolves. Puritty's 24-13-1 record wouldn't lead many to believe that Wlad wasn't going to be able to steamroll Ross the way he had everyone else before that point.

Not Purrity's fault Wlad had never been taken more than a handful of rounds before.

[Russell]

I don't know. I think he showed more than one intangible than no one would of applied to him before that. Heart. Endurance. Ect Ect.

It wasn't Douglas/Tyson but it was a big upset still in my opinion.

[Titan1]

Curry-McCrory
Page-Monroe
Camacho-Ramirez.
Meldrick Taylor-Buddy McGuirt.

[joe33]

golotas got to figure here somewhere,guy at times looked really great,till he went mental.

[Thread Stealer]

Michael Nunn versus Frank Tate, Juan Roldan, and Sumbu Kalambay.

[ChrisPontius]

Golota sure looked phenomenal in the Bowe fights. Great speed, technique, footwork and size. If he had a better chin and fighting heart, he could've gotten far.


I disagree with the Jimmy Young-pick, by the way. He was good in a lot of fights; not just one. His career was rather short but he did beat a prime (but not peak) Foreman and in my opinion should've gotten wins over Ali, Norton and Shavers II. He also beat Lyle twice. A very impressive resume.


Pinklon Thomas also looked great. Holmes' blatant ducking job demoralized him, knowing that even if he was good enough, he could never win the championship of the world. That, and cocaine.

[hdog]

eddie mustafa muhammed is always my #1 pick in this catagory.

[Russell]

Golota sure looked phenomenal in the Bowe fights. Great speed, technique, footwork and size. If he had a better chin and fighting heart, he could've gotten far.


I disagree with the Jimmy Young-pick, by the way. He was good in a lot of fights; not just one. His career was rather short but he did beat a prime (but not peak) Foreman and in my opinion should've gotten wins over Ali, Norton and Shavers II. He also beat Lyle twice. A very impressive resume.


Pinklon Thomas also looked great. Holmes' blatant ducking job demoralized him, knowing that even if he was good enough, he could never win the championship of the world. That, and cocaine.

Golota had a good chin from what I've seen. Definitely looked respectable against Bowe's shots.

I think when Golota was blown out in one round the few times he was it was almost all mental and not much else.

[salsanchezfan]

If you're talking fighters who show just a glimmer of greatness but fall short........

Donald Curry
Danny Romero
Richie Sandoval
Edwin Rosario
Livingstone Bramble
Kennedy McKinney
Junior Jones
Buddy McGirt

[mochabuzz]

Sumbu Kalambay

[garymcfall]

When Tua knocked out Ruiz in 19 seconds i was fairly sure he was going to become a much bigger player in the heavyweight scene than he eventually became.

[redrooster]

Richie Sandoval. World boxing once chose Rich in an upcoming fight with Canizales and I quote "The champion is just too slick, too quick, and too much of a complete performer to be beaten by a limited challenger like Canizales".

Well, we know how that fight turned out and where Ritchie went from there.

How about Johnny Bump city Bumphus?

Same people from World boxing claimed Bump city would take Aaron Pryor in a fight and fresh off a 10 round win over Alexis Arguello to boot. How's that for unshakable faith?

Quote: "In Bumphus, the Hawk is facing a natural jr welterweight, who is younger than Arguello, better defensively, and faster with his hands and feet".

But wait, there's more!

Bumphus' smooth boxing skills, crisp counterpunching, and debilitating body shots :lol: will drain Pryor by the late rounds".
:patsch

"The referee will intervene in the 13th round and Johnny Bumphus will have achieved the upset of the year".

No, I did not make this up on my own.

[Ted Stickles]

Ibeabuchi-------Had so much potential as a fighter but very little as a human

[TBooze]

Lloyd Honeyghan showed glimpses in the Rosi, Curry and Hatcher fights, but never could make that final step into Boxing Valhalla.

Kirkland Laing was a deeply, deeply flawed genius.

Taylor showed greatness in the McGirt and Chavez fights, but like Honeyghan could not makee that final step up.

Mayweather Jr shows glimpses then lets himself down by doing the minimum required, much like Jones Jr.

[Duodenum]

If you're talking fighters who show just a glimmer of greatness but fall short........
Edwin RosarioRIP Chapo, but he does not belong in the IBHOF.

[JohnThomas1]

RIP Chapo, but he does not belong in the IBHOF.

How many people have won the 135 title 3 times tho

:smoke

[Duodenum]

How many people have won the 135 title 3 times tho

:smokeIf the 15 round championship distance was still in place, he wouldn't have won it the first time, and he dethroned only one defending champion (Bramble), a title shot which he "earned" by losing to Camacho. Rosario's overall record in championship competition was a paltry 7-5, and arguably should be only 6-6 with his gift decision over Howard Davis Jr. He failed to last the distance in all four of his unsuccessful title defenses. Duran, Arguello, and Benny Leonard only needed to win it once, and they dethroned defending champions in the process.

[redrooster]

Let's not forget Rosario didn't really beat Ramirez the first time and didn't beat the legitimate title holder Camacho so that only makes him a one time title holder.

3 time champion .......there's a sucker born every minute.

[Duodenum]

Let's not forget Rosario didn't really beat Ramirez the first time and didn't beat the legitimate title holder Camacho so that only makes him a one time title holder.

3 time champion .......there's a sucker born every minute.Thanks for the info. I switched on the fight when it was already well underway, so I only started viewing it in time to see Rosario begin to fade badly. The blow by blow commentary made it sound as if Chapo had built up a substantial lead, but televison executives were also promoting Rosario heavily, a major reason why he got so many title shots. For all the opportunities handed to Edwin on a silver platter, he should have been far more successful than he was.

[JohnThomas1]

If the 15 round championship distance was still in place, he wouldn't have won it the first time,

Speculation, even if likely

and he dethroned only one defending champion (Bramble)

The most spectacular performance over a top fighter by a lightweight of the whole decade in all likelihood.

a title shot which he "earned" by losing to Camacho

MASSIVE controversy as many thought Rosario won including the vast majority of countrymen. Camacho said after the fight he wouldn't fight him again.

Rosario's overall record in championship competition was a paltry 7-5, and arguably should be only 6-6 with his gift decision over Howard Davis Jr.

Sounds like you have a bit of hatred toward Rosario actually, my memory is that the decision was fair and just, tho razor thin. I definitely remember a couple of my publications scoring it for Rosario.

Duran, Arguello, and Benny Leonard only needed to win it once, and they dethroned defending champions in the process.

Ali won the crown 3 times, so Rosario's in reasonable company.

[JohnThomas1]

Thanks for the info. I switched on the fight when it was already well underway, so I only started viewing it in time to see Rosario begin to fade badly. The blow by blow commentary made it sound as if Chapo had built up a substantial lead, but televison executives were also promoting Rosario heavily, a major reason why he got so many title shots. For all the opportunities handed to Edwin on a silver platter, he should have been far more successful than he was.

Common scoring had Rosario winning 5 or 6 of the first 6 rounds.

Unless i'm wrong about these silver platter opportunities, Rosario won shots at new titles 3 out of 4 times. Not a bad success rate.

Was Bramble your favourite fighter or something? Camacho? You really seem to have it in for poor old Rosario, god bless his soul.

[Duodenum]

The most spectacular performance over a top fighter by a lightweight of the whole decade in all likelihood.That case could be made. However, I tend to favor Andy Ganigan's shocking annihilation of Sean O'Grady, and Arguello's subsequent nailbiter with Ganigan.MASSIVE controversy as many thought Rosario won including the vast majority of countrymen. Camacho said after the fight he wouldn't fight him again.Camacho could have emerged as fighter of the decade for both the 1980's and 1990's. He had that much potential, but blew it. He could be undefeated today with the potential he had.Sounds like you have a bit of hatred toward Rosario actually, my memory is that the decision was fair and just, tho razor thin.I did preface my comments about Rosario with the acronym RIP. Unlike Camacho, he never boxed wearing a skirt, and he wasn't a show-off. But I don't think he measured up to all the opportunities provided for him either.I definitely remember a couple of my publications scoring it for Rosario.Fortunately for Chapo, Davis couldn't stand up to a stiff breeze (or even Vilomar Fernandez).Ali won the crown 3 times, so Rosario's in reasonable company.Ali dethroned three heavyweight titleholders for his crowns, including two undisputed HOF champions, while only losing one title defense. Chapo lost four title defenses. That hardly puts Rosario in Ali's company.

[Duodenum]

Was Bramble your favourite fighter or something?Ras-I is a most amusing and entertaining character, who apparently shares live snake necklaces with Escalera.Camacho?No, I am NOT a squish, and I don't believe males should wear skirts when boxing!You really seem to have it in for poor old Rosario, god bless his soul.No, my position is simply that he wasn't that good. That doesn't mean I wasn't saddened when he passed on, any more than am not enraged with Greg Page's father for forcing him unwillingly into a violent sport which has led to his becoming wheelchair bound, instead of letting Greg play basketball and be happy. (Parents suck sometimes. That's why I vowed to never become one.)

[redrooster]

Did I see that right?

John Thomas just compared El Chapo to the greatest. :patsch

[salsanchezfan]

Richie Sandoval. World boxing once chose Rich in an upcoming fight with Canizales and I quote "The champion is just too slick, too quick, and too much of a complete performer to be beaten by a limited challenger like Canizales".

Well, we know how that fight turned out and where Ritchie went from there.

How about Johnny Bump city Bumphus?

Same people from World boxing claimed Bump city would take Aaron Pryor in a fight and fresh off a 10 round win over Alexis Arguello to boot. How's that for unshakable faith?

Quote: "In Bumphus, the Hawk is facing a natural jr welterweight, who is younger than Arguello, better defensively, and faster with his hands and feet".

But wait, there's more!

Bumphus' smooth boxing skills, crisp counterpunching, and debilitating body shots :lol: will drain Pryor by the late rounds".
:patsch

"The referee will intervene in the 13th round and Johnny Bumphus will have achieved the upset of the year".

No, I did not make this up on my own.



...........All things being equal, I agree with the magazine's summation of how Sandoval-Canizales would have gone. Instead, Sandoval started taking non-title fights at 130 pounds and couldn;t shed the wieght to get back to 118. You saw him in there against Canizales. The man was a zombie. Any decent fighter would have taken him that night.

[JohnThomas1]

That case could be made. However, I tend to favor Andy Ganigan's shocking annihilation of Sean O'Grady, and Arguello's subsequent nailbiter with Ganigan.

Decent fighters but Bramble was rated 2 or 3 P4P by the boxing publications and thought to be on his way to greatness, as well as a very heavy favourite. Rosario's brilliant KO stopped the 135 pound division in it's tracks.

Camacho could have emerged as fighter of the decade for both the 1980's and 1990's. He had that much potential, but blew it. He could be undefeated today with the potential he had.

I couldn't agree less. Physically and technically yes, unbelievable talent but where he didn't have it was mentally. When the going got seriously tough Hector couldn't come thru. The Rosario fight hinted at what he lacked and at the end of the day i think we saw pretty much the best of him. He was heavily criticised latter career for sometimes fighting negative and safely when he was outgunned and not laying it all on the line in hope of victory.

I did preface my comments about Rosario with the acronym RIP. Unlike Camacho, he never boxed wearing a skirt, and he wasn't a show-off. But I don't think he measured up to all the opportunities provided for him either.

There's definite resentment there and your slant on the man is totally negative. You go so far as to call his decission win over Davis a "gift" which is not the way it was at all.

Fortunately for Chapo, Davis couldn't stand up to a stiff breeze (or even Vilomar Fernandez).

Yes but he had other assets that made him a most capable fighter, at one time being the fastest fighter on earth. It was a fine win for Rosario, and was written as such at the time. Rosario also just happens to be the pick of many as the hardest hitting 135 pounder to lace on a glove. His power cannot be undermined.

Ali dethroned three heavyweight titleholders for his crowns, including two undisputed HOF champions, while only losing one title defense. Chapo lost four title defenses. That hardly puts Rosario in Ali's company.

But it sure put him in the HOF

;)

Ras-I is a most amusing and entertaining character, who apparently shares live snake necklaces with Escalera.

He was very definitely different wasn't he. I seem to remember him having to get permission from hotels all the time to have his snake there

:lol:

No, my position is simply that he wasn't that good. That doesn't mean I wasn't saddened when he passed on, any more than am not enraged with Greg Page's father for forcing him unwillingly into a violent sport which has led to his becoming wheelchair bound, instead of letting Greg play basketball and be happy. (Parents suck sometimes. That's why I vowed to never become one.)

Well all your comments in this thread are totally negative toward Rosario with no credit or leeway given whatsoever in any quarter. Nothing wrong with that, 99% of us have our biases and leanings in here but i'd hardly try come across as impartial on this one.

[JohnThomas1]

Did I see that right?

John Thomas just compared El Chapo to the greatest. :patsch

Well they both had two arms and two legs, just like you, Hank, Pepper and co. Between the lot of you

:rofl

[jhar26]

How about Razor Ruddock?

[C. M. Clay II]

Leon Spinks in the first Ali fight looked pretty impressive.:good

[redrooster]

Well they both had two arms and two legs, just like you, Hank, Pepper and co. Between the lot of you

:rofl

There's definite resentment there and your slant on the man is totally negative. You go so far as to say his decision win over Rosario was a "gift" which was not that way at all. Remember Rosario-Davis was much closer than Camacho-Rosario.

[redrooster]

Well all your comments in this thread are totally negative toward Rosario with no credit or leeway given whatsoever in any quarter. Nothing wrong with that, 99% of us have our biases and leanings in here but i'd hardly try come across as impartial on this one.

Bias got nothing to do with it. Face facts-Edwin couldn't take a blow to the chops.

[redrooster]

John still believes in the legend of Edwin Rosario.

[JohnThomas1]

Remember Rosario-Davis was much closer than Camacho-Rosario.

Well sort of, loads of people had Rosario beating Camacho by 2 points and many had Rosario beating Davis by only one, but i'd hardly call a single point "much closer".

:good

[Holmes' Jab]

Golota sure looked phenomenal in the Bowe fights. Great speed, technique, footwork and size. If he had a better chin and fighting heart, he could've gotten far.

Yep, I'm in agreement with this. Ibeabuchi, Rosario and Dokes are other fine picks. :good

[TBooze]

Leon Spinks in the first Ali fight looked pretty impressive.:good

With hindsight, perhaps it was a case of Ali being that bad...

[young griffo]

Cool Vince Phillips looked damn good in his upset of Kostya Tszyu.
Ditto Frankie Randall against Julio Cesar Chavez.

[JohnThomas1]

Bias got nothing to do with it. Face facts-Edwin couldn't take a blow to the chops.

At least he stood there and had a go when the chips were down, not like a certain other countryman who went by the misnomer "Macho"

;)

[JohnThomas1]

John still believes in the legend of Edwin Rosario.

Not at all, he fell short of the greatness predicted, but the man was a fine fighter and deserves his dues. A fine warrior who gave his all, case point the Chavez fight. Edwin was a mess but hung in gamely and couldn't stop talking about how he wanted another shot at Chavez. A big contrast to Hector, hurt badly twice vs Rosario then pronouncing he would not under any circumstances fight him again controversial decision or not. If Hector had a bit of this type of fortitiude he would have been downright dangerous.

[Titan1]

Jimmy Paul and Alex Ramos could be considered also.

[JohnThomas1]

Jimmy Paul and Alex Ramos could be considered also.

I'd say Paul more than Ramos, Paul won the title and was quite highly regarded at one point but while wins over Arroyo and Blake were fine where they really the stuff of greatness. Alex had some serious press but never really beat anyone. At one point he was mentioned as the hardest hitter in the middleweight division with either hand, even tho he'd not beaten anybody of note. I was actually a big fan of Ramos and quite intrigued talent wise, but he just didn't come thru for whatever reason. Bobby Joe Young all but mirrored him.

[sweet_scientist]

If the 15 round championship distance was still in place, he wouldn't have won it the first time, and he dethroned only one defending champion (Bramble), a title shot which he "earned" by losing to Camacho.

You can use the 15 round argument both ways though. Had he had to go an extra 3 rounds, Ramirez probably wins (I thought Ramirez won anyway), but if Rosario had 3 extra rounds against Camacho, Rosario likely wins (I thought Rosario won anyway).

And I'll just add, though it wasn't a title fight, if he had 15 rounds against Frankie Randall he likely would have sent him to sleep. He had him just about out on his feet at the end of 10 rounds.

Rosario's overall record in championship competition was a paltry 7-5, and arguably should be only 6-6 with his gift decision over Howard Davis Jr. He failed to last the distance in all four of his unsuccessful title defenses. Duran, Arguello, and Benny Leonard only needed to win it once, and they dethroned defending champions in the process.

At the end of the day, Rosario poleaxed the likes of Viruet, Bramble, Nazario, Jones, Garza and nearly did the same to Randall, whilst holding his own against the likes of Davis, Ramirez and Camacho.

He's not great, but not a bad fighter when it's all said and done. If people think the likes of Diego Corrales and Jose Luis Castillo should be in the Hall well I say chuck Chapo in as well, becuase I think he mashes both.

[jhar26]

Leon Spinks in the first Ali fight looked pretty impressive.:good
Like a welterweight beating up on the heavy bag.

[Drew101]

Michael Carbajal looked incredible when he destroyed Muanchai Kittikasem, and looked like an all-time great when he came back from two knockdowns to stop Humberto Gonzalez...yet, he never really seemed to fulfill his potential.

Resendo Alvarez was brilliant in both of his fights against Ricardo Lopez, yet never seemed to capitalize in the same way at any other point in his career.

[Titan1]

Bernard Taylor looked good for a few rounds against Eusebio Pedroza, but faded down the stretch.

[Titan1]

Leo Randolph looked good against Cardona.