Cooney '81 vrs. Liston '62

[clark]

The outcome?

[godking]

The outcome?Listons stops him within three rounds

[mr. magoo]

Cooney KO 1 Liston...

[Bill Butcher]

The stupidity of this thread is only surpassed in stupidity by Mr Magoo`s answer above.

Liston KO3 Cooney.

Thread closed.

[natonic]

The stupidity of this thread is only surpassed in stupidity by Mr Magoo`s answer above.

Liston KO3 Cooney.

Thread closed.

With all due respect, I think I'll post anyway. Sonny Liston is highly overrated around here. His best win(s) were against Floyd Patterson whom he outweighed by 20 lbs. When he got in against someone close to his size and skill level (Clay), he looked for a way out of the fight twice. Unless we anoint his victories over Cleveland Williams as all time great wins, I don't see the resume to back the hype.
Cooney, on the other hand, gave a near prime Holmes a tough fight and at least had the heart to take the ass whipping (unlike Liston) for 13 rounds. I tend to think the bully Liston would win the fight because Cooney didn't quite have the skill to bring out the punk in Sonny. I'll say Liston by stoppage around the 11th.

[clark]

The thread is not stupid or closed. Cooney had height, reach, and power.
I am looking at it from an interest and style perspective.
I am NOT rating Cooney high up on any boxing list, just discussing
what might happen as (again) a point of interest (only).

[mr. magoo]

The stupidity of this thread is only surpassed in stupidity by Mr Magoo`s answer above.






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SUCKER

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[kenmore]

Interesting thought....Cooney vs. Liston. However I cannot see Sonny losing this bout. I think it Liston would have won in one or two rounds, in devastating fashion.

Watch Liston's beat downs of Cleveland Williams for some insight here.

[Muchmoore]

With all due respect, I think I'll post anyway. Sonny Liston is highly overrated around here. His best win(s) were against Floyd Patterson whom he outweighed by 20 lbs.

And Cooney really has a great amount of wins right :lol:

Cleveland Williams weighed the same as Liston, and was taken out before the 4th started twice.

[natonic]

And Cooney really has a great amount of wins right :lol:

Cleveland Williams weighed the same as Liston, and was taken out before the 4th started twice.

You missed my point. I was responding to the claim that the originator of the post asked an absurd question (Liston vs. Cooney). The point is, what did Liston really do to merit such acclaim? Cleveland Williams? Yeah, I know he fought Cleveland Williams and noted it in my post. Pretty good fighter. I don't think 2 wins over Cleveland Williams are that epic.

I'm no great Cooney supporter. Facts are facts though. He stood up against a near prime Holmes for 13 and gave him a pretty good fight. When Liston fought an ATG, he quit once and looked for a soft place to lay down the second time. I can prove Clay stopped him twice. Liston worshipers can only speculate that he took dives. Sorry, I just don't think he's an ATG. I also don't think Liston could blow Cooney out of there much quicker than Holmes did. I said 11 rounds tko for Liston. Seems reasonable to me. If a guy gets blasted every time he asks a reasonable question, we won't have much to talk about.

[clark]

Yes, natonic, it's just a fun look at a matchup, nothing more.
Different eras and styles can make for interesting outcomes.
This isn't a debate on whether someone is an ATG or
a tomato can. Just fun speculation.

[heehoo]

Liston in 1.

[Russell]

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SUCKER

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:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

I love you, Magoo.

[he grant]

A wild opening two minutes but once Liston hits him it's a different fight ... I'm no big Liston fan as I believe he was a quitter and is a bit over rated but I like Sonny her ... Gerry lacks the chin ...

[mr. magoo]

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

I love you, Magoo.
Dito

[anut]

liston within 9 rds.....maybe on cuts:smoke:smoke:smoke:smoke

[Holmes' Jab]

Liston KO4.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Cooney has a half a chance. Liston was about 45 then. :yep

[Holmes' Jab]

... Holmes was about the same age as '62 Liston when he fought Cooney. Liston mightn't be quite as great a pure boxer as Larry was, but would be a worse matchup for Conney because of his offensive tools.

[mr. magoo]

Cooney has a half a chance. Liston was about 45 then. :yep

Better yet, he was dead...Like most of Gerry's opponents.

[abraq]

Purely answering the question asked.

Cooney gets taken out in a few rounds. How few? Not more than five.

[Muchmoore]

With all due respect, I think I'll post anyway. Sonny Liston is highly overrated around here. His best win(s) were against Floyd Patterson whom he outweighed by 20 lbs. When he got in against someone close to his size and skill level (Clay), he looked for a way out of the fight twice. Unless we anoint his victories over Cleveland Williams as all time great wins, I don't see the resume to back the hype.
Cooney, on the other hand, gave a near prime Holmes a tough fight and at least had the heart to take the ass whipping (unlike Liston) for 13 rounds. I tend to think the bully Liston would win the fight because Cooney didn't quite have the skill to bring out the punk in Sonny. I'll say Liston by stoppage around the 11th.

Actually Liston out weighed Patterson by more than 20 pounds. Not to mention Patterson started his career as a super middleweight and had a glass chin. Cleveland Willams was good because of what? Because you said so? Cooney on the other hand lost 3 fights in his career and all of them are in the hall of fame now and 2 of of those guys were undefeated when he fought them.

This guy is right about one thing, You people get on certain fights jocks and act like there were better than god. Even though Liston fought inferior opponents his ko percenatage isnt very high. Infact it would of been alot lower but after he lost to Ali the second time he went on a winning streak beating bums and compiled a record of 14 wins and 13 kos. Liston was slow as hell, his punching power is highly overrated ( Ali never mentions a thing about his punching power,He only states Sonny was scary) Knocking out a guy like Patterson was knocked down 7 times in one round by the 180 pound Ingo doesnt mean you can punch.

Besides Williams who else actually came at Liston and tried to take him out? Then ask yourself who did Big Cat Williams fight and beat who you would consider world class? So who says Liston could handle a true big puncher? He was knocked out stiff by Leotis Martin which proves something. You could say he was old by Foreman fought better guys than Martin up until he was 48 and none knocked him stiff.

Cooney was bigger and probably stronger and since his ko percentage was higher and he fought the better guys i will say he punched harder as well. I can't see some over hyped joke fighter like Liston beating any half way decent heavyweight like Cooney.

Your idol George Foreman had more respect for Liston than pretty much any other fighter.

[Seamus]

Liston destroys him 8.5 times out of 10. Perhaps if Cooney had a different rise to the top, more toughness in the trenches and experience, these odds would be swayed, but on actual production, it aint even that close.

[joe the great]

I would've favored Liston. Cooney did well against Foreman though. Still Liston was a champion so have to favor him even with Jerry's size and power.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Cooney did well against Foreman though.


He did well in the horizontal olympics maybe.

[fists of fury]

He did well in the horizontal olympics maybe.

:lol:

[joe the great]

He did well in the horizontal olympics maybe.
:patschI meant Holmes.

[abraq]

I tend to think the bully Liston would win the fight because Cooney didn't quite have the skill to bring out the punk in Sonny. I'll say Liston by stoppage around the 11th.

I can't see some over hyped joke fighter like Liston beating any half way decent heavyweight like Cooney.

:huh :huh :huh

:think :think :think

Now FR, make up your mind. Who wins?

[mr. magoo]

:patschI meant Holmes.

As much as these guys are teasing you, Cooney actually did look fairly sharp in the first round of the Foreman fight, and for even a short part of the second round. For a man who had only fought some 3 times in 8 years, Cooney's jab, hook, and footwork looked pretty good against a much more actively fighting Foreman, who at this point had an improved defense.

In my opinion, this fight gave us a slight glimpse of what Gerry might have become in his prime, had his career not been derailed.

[Longhhorn71]

Very few fighters really stood up to Liston.....Williams hit him his best shots and then got knocked out, Machen boxed him, Ali beat him, and Marty Marshall pulled the barking dog routine and made Liston laugh..then broke Sonny's jaw.

If Cooney is not intimidated, and lands big on Liston, then he might go 8-9 rds before getting k.o.'ed.

But if Gerry doesn't think he can win, ...well, Liston loves to knock those type of guys out quick.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Listons stops him within three rounds

I'm thinkin' Liston in about 3 or 4 as well. Cooney no chance!

[My dinner with Conteh]

Better yet, he was dead...Like most of Gerry's opponents.


Yep, looking at this list of victims the same old names come up: "Paul Bearer", "Mort Tuary". ;)

[mr. magoo]

Yep, looking at this list of victims the same old names come up: "Paul Bearer", "Mort Tuary". ;)

LOL:lol:

Indeed.

[Bill Butcher]

With all due respect, I think I'll post anyway. Sonny Liston is highly overrated around here. His best win(s) were against Floyd Patterson whom he outweighed by 20 lbs. When he got in against someone close to his size and skill level (Clay), he looked for a way out of the fight twice. Unless we anoint his victories over Cleveland Williams as all time great wins, I don't see the resume to back the hype.
Cooney, on the other hand, gave a near prime Holmes a tough fight and at least had the heart to take the ass whipping (unlike Liston) for 13 rounds. I tend to think the bully Liston would win the fight because Cooney didn't quite have the skill to bring out the punk in Sonny. I'll say Liston by stoppage around the 11th.

Actually Liston out weighed Patterson by more than 20 pounds. Not to mention Patterson started his career as a super middleweight and had a glass chin. Cleveland Willams was good because of what? Because you said so? Cooney on the other hand lost 3 fights in his career and all of them are in the hall of fame now and 2 of of those guys were undefeated when he fought them.

This guy is right about one thing, You people get on certain fights jocks and act like there were better than god. Even though Liston fought inferior opponents his ko percenatage isnt very high. Infact it would of been alot lower but after he lost to Ali the second time he went on a winning streak beating bums and compiled a record of 14 wins and 13 kos. Liston was slow as hell, his punching power is highly overrated ( Ali never mentions a thing about his punching power,He only states Sonny was scary) Knocking out a guy like Patterson was knocked down 7 times in one round by the 180 pound Ingo doesnt mean you can punch.

Besides Williams who else actually came at Liston and tried to take him out? Then ask yourself who did Big Cat Williams fight and beat who you would consider world class? So who says Liston could handle a true big puncher? He was knocked out stiff by Leotis Martin which proves something. You could say he was old by Foreman fought better guys than Martin up until he was 48 and none knocked him stiff.

Cooney was bigger and probably stronger and since his ko percentage was higher and he fought the better guys i will say he punched harder as well. I can't see some over hyped joke fighter like Liston beating any half way decent heavyweight like Cooney.

Come back down to planet pluto please.

Liston would piss all over Cooney, just ask George Foreman - GF says Liston was the only guy to constantly make him back up in sparring & he could do it WITH HIS JAB.

[natonic]

George Foreman says a lot of things. Wait five minutes and he'll contradict himself.

[Holmes' Jab]

Liston would knock Foreman out. Foreman is without question the overrated one. :yep

[Ramon Rojo]

Liston by KO

[Seamus]

Cleveland Williams was a b-minus fighter at best, like Cooney, so I figure the outcome would be similar unless Cooney's superior power (in one punch that had to be setup exactly right came in to play). Liston feasted on sub-par fighters, look at his resume. Williams, Machen, the like... He wins this one also.

[Seamus]

Come back down to planet pluto please.

Liston would piss all over Cooney, just ask George Foreman - GF says Liston was the only guy to constantly make him back up in sparring & he could do it WITH HIS JAB.

George Foreman says a lot of things. Wait five minutes and he'll contradict himself.

Foreman is known to make contradicting statements. Foreman said he was scared of Jerry Quarry which is why he didn't fight him. Foreman said Lewis is the best heavyweight he ever seen but I read that his Foreman's brother told him he didnt really believe that.

Anyway every thing I said about Liston is true. Give me some names of 200 plus pound heavyweights besides Cleveland Williams he beat. Liston never beat a world class heavyweight who was in their prime so as I said Cooney would probably starch him in a couple of rounds.


Foreman met Liston when George was green as baby shit. And Foremen contradicts himself every 5 minutes on the 12. There is no argument that can be based on his assertions.

[Holmes' Jab]

I guess Holmes wants attention. I wish i knew how to block people so I wouldnt have to see their post.


Not really mate, just stating my point of view (some might agree some mightn't). I just like some classic debate, nought wrong with that.

[Rico Spadafora]

I see no way Cooney could win.

[ThinBlack]

Sonny has this fight won at the staredown and 56 seconds later, kayoes Gerry, ruining a lot of people's dream of Cooney dominance.

[lufcrazy]

Liston tko 9.

[Hookie]

The thread is not stupid or closed. Cooney had height, reach, and power.
I am looking at it from an interest and style perspective.
I am NOT rating Cooney high up on any boxing list, just discussing
what might happen as (again) a point of interest (only).

No, I have not read all of the posts in this thread but I'm sure most are picking Liston by KO. Some are probably insulted by the thought of cooney even having a chance. Oh well, they'll have to get over it... I think Cooney has a chance.

Cooney was big... 6'6" with an 81" reach and 225 solid Lbs. Liston was 6' with a reach of 84" (I doubt it) and solid between 210-215 Lbs.

Cooney fought and beat guys bigger than Liston. Liston didn't even beat guys as big as himself. With that said, Cooney would enjoy a 5 1/2-6" height advantage and would be 10-15 Lbs. heavier. The reach? Even if Liston's reach was 84"... when your 6" shorter and have to punch up... a 3" longer reach is negated.

Cooney beat past prime versions of Jimmy Young KO4 (6'2" 223 Lbs), Ron Lyle KO1 (6'3" 215 Lbs), and Ken Norton 54 seconds (6'3" 225 Lbs) prior to fighting a prime Larry Holmes LKOby13 (6'4" 213 Lbs). He also beat Dino Denis KO3, Leroy Boone KO6, Phillip Brown KO4, and Eddie Gregg KO1 among others.

You know what Liston did, right? He beat Cleveland Williams x2, Folley, Machen, and Patterson x2. He was schooled by Ali x2.

I think Cooney has a chance.

[Hookie]

Machen was right around 200 Lbs... Johansson stopped him in 1, Liston won by decision. Patterson and Folley were good smaller HWs with less than great chins... Patterson was down more than any other HW Champ. Williams kinda sucked. Summerlin would have been stopped quickly by Cooney as would M. Marshall.

[Joe]

Cooney would win by KO1 in 81 Liston was way over the hill then Liston takes it easily in 61 I mean really Cooney was just 6 years old... :conf

[Hookie]

Cooney would win by KO1 in 81 Liston was way over the hill then Liston takes it easily in 61 I mean really Cooney was just 6 years old... :conf

Yeah, I would imagine that spending 11 years 6 feet under would change a man :nut

[RockyJim]

Sonny is overrated on this site...he KO's china chinned Patterson in 1 round in both fights in 1962 and 1963...then as champion...QUITS WHILE SITTING ON HIS STOOL...in 1964...and is
.."ahem"...KO'd by the...'ahem"..."phantom punch" up in Maine in 1965 by Cassius Clay...not much of a resume to be included on the all time list...he had the bully mentality...stand up to him...and you win...

[mr. magoo]

Liston wins, but it may take him several rounds to break Cooney down, and he might even take a few big shots along the way.. Sonny by stoppage between rounds 6-8..

[Stevie G]

The outcome?

Liston stops Cooney early. No contest. The Cooney of 1981 was very much a 'work in progress' who was brought along in the most stupid way possible. This resulted in him never reaching his full potential.

[Legend X]

Sonny is overrated on this site...he KO's china chinned Patterson in 1 round in both fights in 1962 and 1963...then as champion...QUITS WHILE SITTING ON HIS STOOL...in 1964...and is
.."ahem"...KO'd by the...'ahem"..."phantom punch" up in Maine in 1965 by Cassius Clay...not much of a resume to be included on the all time list...he had the bully mentality...stand up to him...and you win...

Yeah, but he'd probably crush Cooney.

[lufcrazy]

If there's one fighter when really gets the shit stick in history it's cooney.

I completely understand larry's frustration when asked "do you regret not having a great dance partner" he rightly answers "i did, cooney".

Gerry deserved his spot as number 1 contender as he but a swathe through the gatekeepers of the division in a much easier way than larry himself could have managed.

It is unfortunate that larry was in that era because otherwise cooney would have dominated that era. He was a great contender up against a great champion in a fight that was ultimately great.

After norton and shavers he is easily larry's best victory. Well ahead of spoon, ali, leon and michael.

That being said liston, beats cooney imo as stylistically he has almost every edge. He will pound him from the outside with his ramrod jab and will eventually break cooney down and once he gets inside he'll beat him up.

Don't dismiss the possibility of cooney wiping sonny out with one punch though. The guy was a monster. Even though liston has the edge here there's not one fighter in history with a chin strong enough that they could eat flush shots from cooney.

[Joe]

Yeah, I would imagine that spending 11 years 6 feet under would change a man :nut

I like how you reply to me like I left an honest but unknowing retard comment :lol:

[Foreman Hook]

Cooney would win by KO1 in 81 Liston was way over the hill then Liston takes it easily in 61 I mean really Cooney was just 6 years old... :conf

:rofl:rofl