Weirdest weight changes?

[Russell]

Browsing records on Boxrec, I've come across some that've made me laugh, I know that much. As with a lot of other things, boxing seems to take the "cake" here.

On 3/24/95, Eric Esch weighs 330 pounds.

Less than a month later, on 4/15/95, he's lost 50 pounds and weighs in at 280, a career low.

Fast forward about a week to 4/21/95, he weights 310, a gain of 30 pounds.

Jesus H Christ, that's just insane.

Who else comes to mind?

[bladerunner]

Roy Jones droping from heavyweight to light heavy.

[FlatNose]

A big fatso like Butterbean can probably lose weight just with a big bowel movement.I mean , whats 50 pounds if you're 150 overweight?

[Jose FM]

Roy Jones droping from heavyweight to light heavy.
I dont think that its that weird for one to drop from Heavy to LHW, the problem that Jones had was that he had alot of muscle mass, which is harder to lose, and in draining and starving your body to lose that weight it takes alot out of a fighter. A fighter can easily come down, but must have a body that will respond positively to such a weight loss. Cause remember Jones was only a lil over 190 lbs, so 15lb wouldnt be that much, unless its under the circumstances i mentioned above.:good

[Russell]

Top...

[Polymath]

Roy Jones droping from heavyweight to light heavy.
Actually, Roy Jones didn't need to lose any weight post Ruiz, pre Tarver. Weighing 192lbs for Ruiz, he was 17lbs over the LT Heaveyweight limit; many fighters CUT over 17lbs for every fight they have; Joan Guzman recently cut 23lbs.

The point is, Jones could have dehydrated for Tarver without losing a single pound of muscle. Lets say Jones was one of the unusual fightesr who could only dehydrate 10lbs, tops. He still would have to have lost 7lbs of muscle maximum; far from the rediculous excuses of the Junior huggers "he lost over 20lbs of muscle" etc. Bullshit. Junior lost becasue he was old and Tarver was a good fighter.

[Senya13]

The point is, Jones could have dehydrated for Tarver without losing a single pound of muscle.
Read some information on human anatomy. In particular, the ratio of water in male adult's body, on average, and what are symptoms and consequences of losing certain amounts of water.

[Senya13]

Dwight Qawi weighed 190 for Holyfield rematch, on December 5, then in 3.5 months, on March 19, he weighed 222 for Foreman (and put up a very decent performance in the first 6 rounds), but on November 23 same year dropped to 193.
Iran Barkley weighed 168 for Toney, then in half-year comes in at 208 pounds.
Late Archie Moore's weight went up and down considerably between fights.

[Polymath]

Read some information on human anatomy. In particular, the ratio of water in male adult's body, on average, and what are symptoms and consequences of losing certain amounts of water.

Boxers cut weight, often over 20lbs, retard.

[Senya13]

The composition of water in the weight of adults is about 60-65%. For Ruiz's Jones and using higher limit 65% it would be about 125 pounds of water.
Of 125 pounds:
1% = 1.25 lb
2% = 2.50 lb
3% = 3.75 lb
4% = 5.00 lb
5% = 6.25 lb
6% = 7.50 lb
7% = 8.75 lb
8% = 10.00 lb
9% = 11.25 lb
10% = 12.50 lb
11% = 13.75 lb
12% = 15.00 lb
13% = 16.25 lb

Levels of dehydration:
1% - Thirst, desire to drink something.
2% - Feeling of unrest. Loss of apetite. Capacity for work decreases by about 20%. Mouth feels dry. Breathing starts to have specific smell. Tongue feels sluggish, hard to speak.
4% - Nausea. Giddiness. Emotional instability. Body feels dog-tired. Almost no wish to drink anything.
6% - Color of face changes sharply. Outward appearance is horrible. Strong giddiness. Coordination of movements is broken. Overall aggression. Unable to produce connected speech.
10% - Added to the symptoms above are: heat regulation is broken, cells extinction begins.
11% - It's no longer enough to just drink water. Urgent professional medical help is needed to stop serious changes in chemical balance of organism.
20% - Urgent medical help is not needed anymore.


Buy yourself a book on human anatomy and read it, before you make claims like the one above.

[Polymath]

So you get thirsty when you're dehydrated? Wow I only wish I had the same books you do. Now stop talking at me retard.

[JohnThomas1]

A less extreme but more recent example is Eddie Mustafa Muhammad moving to Heavyweight to fight Renaldo Snipes. He fought Snipes at 201 3/4 pounds. One day off two months later he fought Michael Spinks in defence of his 175 title and had to take off weight pre fight after coming in too heavy. He fought at 175 on the dot. This is say 27 pounds in two months, and we don't know when Mustafa started cutting the weight in earnest. Little wonder he tired badly in the second half of the fight.

[DamonD]

A recent one I've always been highly suspicious about is Danny Williams weighing in at 228lbs vs Scott Gammer earlier this year.

The only other time Danny had ever been below 230lbs was for his pro debut, way back in October '95. He hadn't been below 240 since 2002, below 250 since 2003...he hadn't even been below 260 since 2003, even!

Very strange. In fighting his rematch against Audley Harrison just less than 3 months earlier, he clocked in at 267lbs.

So for those in the know, because I'd be interested in the scientific side of this...is it likely that Danny could drop 39lbs in 3 months? Against all previous evidence over the years of his training (and eating) habits and a steadily increasing average weight?

And then in his next fight, the recent one against Platov, Danny was back to being heavy again, 270lbs. So either he had the most amazing one-off fat loss programme in recent boxing history, only to inexplicably throw it all away and tuck into the pies again...or that 228lbs is highly dubious as I've always maintained.

Just something that bugs me ;) Any thoughts on this?

[enquirer]

I think when williams weighs in at 270 or so that he adds hidden weights,he has admitted this once,cant remember the fight.
Against gammer check gammers weight and if it deviated from the norm for evidence of foul play with the scales,i remember when nunn fought lt heavy ashley crawford at 168,crawford got to the scales at 163 and he and his manager swore the scale was rigged 5 pounds short,nunn weighed 168 dead,and the implication was that nunn actually weighed 173 but couldnt make this weight so the scales were rigged...Anybody who knows ashley would know he is a big man and no way could he have got down to 163 when he normally fought at 175 and later 190. (he was also 6 ft 3 at least.)

[enquirer]

Senya,while what you say is partially true,many boxers cut weight drastically and dangerously to make weight and enter the ring up to 20 pounds heavier than the weigh in...
If you make the excuse for jones,then you must realise that toney came in 17 pounds heavier than the weigh against jones,so does this excuse the poor performance/loss and discredit the jones win?
Im sure many opponents of jones and others added heaps of weight after the weigh in,its unfortunately standard practice now.
I also note that when guys are winning and gaining a big advantage in size they never complain,but as soon as they lose they blame weight making....
Bring back the weigh-ins to just before the fight or have some sort of limit which cannot be exceeded after the weigh in,say the amount which would make the fighter technically in a different division...

[DamonD]

I think when williams weighs in at 270 or so that he adds hidden weights,he has admitted this once,cant remember the fight.
Against gammer check gammers weight and if it deviated from the norm for evidence of foul play with the scales...
Gammer's weight was 239, actually a little higher than usual (and his heaviest by some 3 pounds to date at the time). I don't think it can be the scales (particularly since Danny was so so much lighter than usual).

Danny has mentioned the hidden weights routine a few times...but it becomes a bit unconvincing given the times he's weighed in in just his shorts and still came up heavy. Unless he's got a dumb-bell stuffed down there, and frankly I'm unwilling to investigate.

[Senya13]

There are limits of how much weight you can reduce by dehydration. Jones certainly couldn't lose 10 pounds just by dehydration (that's 8%), without everyone noticing he is in need of urgent medical help, it'd be visible even if he lost just 7-8 pounds that way.

[Senya13]

If you make the excuse for jones,then you must realise that toney came in 17 pounds heavier than the weigh against jones
Chronology of events:

Nov. 17, The Washington Post, about Toney:
His walking-around weight is about 200.

Nov. 18, Sun Sentinel, about Toney:
Says Miller, his trainer: "He's 100 percent better than he used to be, but he's got to get 100 percent better."

Nov. 19, Sun Sentinel:
Although the fight was for the 168-pound title and Jones weighed in at the class limit Thursday while Toney weighed in at 167, their weights were much higher at fight time. According to Marc Rattner, executive director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, Toney weighed 182 pounds and Jones 178.

Nov. 19, The Associated Press:
Getting down to his official weight of 168 pounds from 207 in September might have affected Toney. But Marc Rattner, executive director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, said Toney's fighting weight was 182. Jones weighed in at the class limit of 168 on Thursday but his weight at fight time was 178.

Nov. 22, The Washington Post, about Toney:
He said yesterday that he was recovering from the flu and that Kallen had pressured him to fight before he was ready. Toney said he had fired Kallen.

Nov. 23, The Palm Beach Post:
Toney's frustration over his first professional defeat turned toward Kallen, whom he blamed for setting up a fight at a lower weight class. He said he was forced to drop 40 pounds in six weeks to qualify for the bout. ``Everybody in the world knows that wasn't the real James Toney,'' he told the Detroit News. Toney said Kallen knew he had problems making the weight but told him he would make more money at the lower weight.

Nov. 26, New York Amsterdam News:
"I did my best. I'm a true champion," said James, who lost for the first time in his sparkling 44-1-2 and 29 KOs record. "I tip my hat to Roy Jones, who did a good job running away. He won. I got no excuses. He's the best super middleweight in the world. I ain't gonn'a say he's better than me. I ain't no punk. I'm not going out like that."

Nov. 27, Houston Chronicle:
Toney says he'd contracted the flu during the days preceeding the bout at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas and felt physically incapable of waging a normal fight.

Nov. 30, Sacramento Observer:
"I just couldn't get off tonight," Toney told reporters after the fight.
...
Toney lost almost thirty pounds in less than two weeks. At weighin he was 167 pounds, down from his 195 pound training weight in late October.

[enquirer]

So how do so many boxers come in 17 pounds heavier after the weigh in without needing medical help before hand? (except for the drips which toney liked to use.)
(by the way,i think all this dehydration practice should be banned and monitored,i think may fighters get 'shot' early or get brain injuries by dehydrating.)

[enquirer]

Ive read those reports before so i can verify they are true (i also followed all the build up and the fight/aftermath.).You will note that jones also added ten pounds.
I think toney is just a lazy bugger between fights and eats too much,he is not a natural lean 200 pound man,walk around weight for many boxers means 'fat ass weight',not their natural lean comfortable weight.
when toney fought charles willaims at 168 willams looked much bigger than toney,and willams was a lt heavy slimmed down...Toney was not a big man till he started taking roids.
Hatton walks around at 180/190 but he is bloody tiny compared to most welters,even floyd who probably walks around at 150 max is bigger than hatton....
Toneys problem was that he got too out of shape between fights and then left too much weight to be lost too quickly and by questionable means like saunas and dieuretics,etc,not that he was too big for the division or a big man.

[Senya13]

Dehydration is not the only way to lose weight. That's what I'm talking about.

[enquirer]

Of course not,you have laxatives as well....
However,when guys gain 17 pounds you have to wonder what they are doing....I would think cutting water is the main and most stupid way boxers use to cut weight quickly....Can you think of any other methods?

[Senya13]

Food. When they eat an apple the whole day, etc.

[enquirer]

Yes,but thats quite similiar if not the same as dehydrating. When you dont eat much you lose water weight through urination, natural sweating and lowering the glycogen/water in your body,along with your metabolism consuming the bodys carbs/protein reserves for energy.

[Senya13]

People handle lack of food much better than they handle lack of water. Even very fit trained sportsmen have about 10% of fat in their body weight, and can get that down to 5-6% without suffering too severely. In case of Jones, according to Mackie Shilstone: "Roy came to me at 192 pounds with 8.7 percent body fat. All we did was change the composition; bring his body fat down to six percent." Ie, there wasn't enough fat either (Toney balooned up by getting fat mostly, not by muscles) for Jones to lose and thus to reduce weight. When you can't lose any more fat and your capacity to dehydrate is limited to maybe 5-6 pounds at best, but when you have to cut 18 pounds, there's nothing else left but to cut muscles.

[enquirer]

It then depends on how your body has adapated to the 'new muscle'.
I myself was 168 cut when i weight trained years ago,i am now 140 cut with no ill effects,in fact i feel much better without all the extra muscle....