tony ayala jr

[ryan8331]

how good was he?
ive heard peolple on hear talk pretty highly of him?ive never seen him fight though.what was he like?
could he have dethroned marvelous marvin at middleweight?how would he have faired against the top jr.middleweights such as hearns,benitez,leonard,mccallum and davey moore(i heard he was scheduled to face him before being imprisoned)?

[laxpdx]

Tony Ayala Jr. would have been one of boxing's greatest fighters ever IMO. From the age of 8 onward, he NEVER lost a fight. He battered and bloodied a WW champion Cuevas at a mere 14 years of age, and did likewise to Davey Moore and Bobby Czyz, among others. Tony Ayala had an exceptional combination of immense raw talent, freakish power and an intense rage, which unfortunately contributed to his inability to stay out of trouble outside the ring. He had also been boozing and hyping on heroin since before age 12.

I believe Tony would've destroyed just about any Jr. MW who got into the ring with him. I do think had what it took to beat Hagler. I'm unsure about peak Hagler, however post-Hearns, Tony could definitely best that version. With all that power, rage and extraordinary talent rolled into one, Tony Ayala Jr. was virtually unstoppable.

[aj415]

Does anyone have footage / link to footage of Ayala Jr? Youtube has none, he sounds like a fighter worth watching.

[laxpdx]

Does anyone have footage / link to footage of Ayala Jr? Youtube has none, he sounds like a fighter worth watching.

I wish!

[aj415]

Were none of his pre-prison fights recorded?

Even some to see a faded version of himself, during his comeback would be better then nothing.

[laxpdx]

Were none of his pre-prison fights recorded?

Even some to see a faded version of himself, during his comeback would be better then nothing.

Here's a link to a DVD site.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Of course I recommend the pre-prison DVD's, post-prison he wasn't even a shell of the tiger he once was.

[tommy the hat]

Definitely had all the tools to become a world champion, and he probably would have won a belt. He was set to face Davey Moore for Moore's jr Middleweight title when he ended up getting in trouble and locked up. He probably would of beat guys like Moore, but guys like Hagler and Hearns would have taken him apart. Ayala was in many ways like a young Mike Tyson, in that he fought with alot of rage and ferocity, hit hard, and had alot of guys intimidated before the bell even rang. No way he would intimidate or overpower guys like Hagler,Hearns,Mike McCallum, or even an inshape Duran.

[arther1045]

Definitely had all the tools to become a world champion, and he probably would have won a belt. He was set to face Davey Moore for Moore's jr Middleweight title when he ended up getting in trouble and locked up. He probably would of beat guys like Moore, but guys like Hagler and Hearns would have taken him apart. Ayala was in many ways like a young Mike Tyson, in that he fought with alot of rage and ferocity, hit hard, and had alot of guys intimidated before the bell even rang. No way he would intimidate or overpower guys like Hagler,Hearns,Mike McCallum, or even an inshape Duran.

I was really hoping the Duran/Ayala fight would happen.




YouTube - Roberto Duran during his quest for a 3rd world title ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[tommy the hat]

[quote=arther1045]I was really hoping the Duran/Ayala fight would happen.


Would have been a hell of a fight, especially if Duran got himself into tip top shap, which he didn't always do.

[laxpdx]

Definitely had all the tools to become a world champion, and he probably would have won a belt. He was set to face Davey Moore for Moore's jr Middleweight title when he ended up getting in trouble and locked up. He probably would of beat guys like Moore, but guys like Hagler and Hearns would have taken him apart. Ayala was in many ways like a young Mike Tyson, in that he fought with alot of rage and ferocity, hit hard, and had alot of guys intimidated before the bell even rang. No way he would intimidate or overpower guys like Hagler,Hearns,Mike McCallum, or even an inshape Duran.

The only one of those guys I see him possibly losing to would be Hagler-more specifically, pre-Hearns Hagler.

Hearns might pull out an upset on a given night, however I think Tony is more likely to win, given his unrelenting body attack, so typical of what Hagler and Barkley employed against him.

[natonic]

The only one of those guys I see him possibly losing to would be Hagler-more specifically, pre-Hearns Hagler.

Hearns might pull out an upset on a given night, however I think Tony is more likely to win, given his unrelenting body attack, so typical of what Hagler and Barkley employed against him.

These are great fighters you're talking about. Ayala was a powerful, relentless puncher but he was also very crude. He telegraphed a lot of his wide shots and was wide open for counters. Hagler would destroy him within 5 rounds. Hearns would jab him to death and take him out with a big right hand at the time of his choosing. McCallum would systematically pick him apart and rip him to his not ripped midsection and stop him in the later rounds. What would Duran do to him? Just watch Duran versus Moore to get an idea. You're talking about a 21 year old, unproven fighter. Sparring with Cuevas, or fighting Robbie Epps or Tony Chiavarini or whoever the hell else he fought in no way prepared him to face, let alone beat these great fighters.These guys earned their legacies in the ring. Ayala is more of an urban legend.

[natonic]

"Hearns might pull out an upset on a given night"

Dude, get serious. You can go on about Ayala all you want, but when you start disrespecting legends, somebody's going to call you on it.

[JohnThomas1]

Hearns might pull out an upset on a given night, however I think Tony is more likely to win, given his unrelenting body attack, so typical of what Hagler and Barkley employed against him.

A few things. Hagler headhunted vs Hearns more than anything, and body punching had little to do with anything. Secondly, Barkley barely landed a punch to the body in their fight that mattered most, the first. Truth be told he did bugger all in attack before the big one.

[young griffo]

I don't buy any of the hype about him.

He may have turned out to be a good fighter but the garbage laxpdx goes on with about him is quite annoying.

He'd beat Hagler or Hearns would he? Based on what? Wins over Epps or Curtis Ramsey? Get fucking real.

All he was was a promising fighter who as stated by natonic (great post by the way) was pudgy,winged his punches and had a sloppy defense.He got dropped and badly hurt by Mario Maldanado who couldn't punch which shows a vulnerability that would've got exposed as his quality of opposition rose.

I personally believe his career would've been probably similar to John Mugabi.He'd have been a beast against lower echelon fighters but he would've fallen way short against the elite.

Fighters of the ilk of Hearns,Hagler,McCallum,Duran,Jackson or even Norris would've all beaten him handily had he been around to fight them imo.

[tommy the hat]

The only one of those guys I see him possibly losing to would be Hagler-more specifically, pre-Hearns Hagler.

Hearns might pull out an upset on a given night, however I think Tony is more likely to win, given his unrelenting body attack, so typical of what Hagler and Barkley employed against him.
You would consider Tommy Hearns beating Tony Ayala an upset? Ayala never fought that level of opponent before he went away. He would never walk through guys like that. That is the thing we unfortunately will never find out. How would he have done when he went in there with guys who were not intimidated by him, guys that had world championship experience, who would eventually become Hall of Famers. How would he react when he hit guys with his best shots and it didn't bother them, and they had an answer for everything he threw their way. That is when a fighter needs a strong mental makeup and had to dig deep. Not certain if Ayala had that in him, based on some of the things he did in life.

[laxpdx]

.

[laxpdx]

A few things. Hagler headhunted vs Hearns more than anything, and body punching had little to do with anything. Secondly, Barkley barely landed a punch to the body in their fight that mattered most, the first. Truth be told he did bugger all in attack before the big one.

Good of you to enlighten me.

[laxpdx]

I don't buy any of the hype about him.

He may have turned out to be a good fighter but the garbage laxpdx goes on with about him is quite annoying.

He'd beat Hagler or Hearns would he? Based on what? Wins over Epps or Curtis Ramsey? Get fucking real.

All he was was a promising fighter who as stated by natonic (great post by the way) was pudgy,winged his punches and had a sloppy defense.He got dropped and badly hurt by Mario Maldanado who couldn't punch which shows a vulnerability that would've got exposed as his quality of opposition rose.

I personally believe his career would've been probably similar to John Mugabi.He'd have been a beast against lower echelon fighters but he would've fallen way short against the elite.

Fighters of the ilk of Hearns,Hagler,McCallum,Duran,Jackson or even Norris would've all beaten him handily had he been around to fight them imo.

You have right to your opinions. Though I think they may be wrong, I'm not about to dismiss them as "garbage".

[laxpdx]

"Hearns might pull out an upset on a given night"

Dude, get serious. You can go on about Ayala all you want, but when you start disrespecting legends, somebody's going to call you on it.

I was actually giving Tommy the benefit of the doubt, the way I see it.

[Rebel-INS]

I was actually giving Tommy the benefit of the doubt, the way I see it.

What by saying that he might get lucky and land a big punch? A lot of people rate Hearns as the greatest LMW of all time, and you think a fighter who never showed anywhere near the ability needed to stop him?

[Rebel-INS]

I also love how you use the word upset when describing a Hearns victory over that scumbag.

[laxpdx]

I also love how you use the word upset when describing a Hearns victory over that scumbag.

OK, I'll be fair and say defeat. Where I was coming from was that I envision Hearns beating Tony in a rematch, after Tony demolishes him in the first one (or two), and is expected to win again. Hence the word "upset".

[redrooster]

every great figter has their share of critics and Tony was no exception but he was the best fighter to ever come out of the duva stable. so what if he was crude? who says crude fighters cant win titles?

mike tyson was crude as they come. so was joe frazier who threw the same punch all the time. jack dempsey, jake lamotta, harry greb, ketchel, and even berbick all won titles.

[JohnThomas1]

every great figter has their share of critics and Tony was no exception

Tony........."great"

:lol:

The Rooster rides again


:lama

[mcvey]

every great figter has their share of critics and Tony was no exception but he was the best fighter to ever come out of the duva stable. so what if he was crude? who says crude fighters cant win titles?

mike tyson was crude as they come. so was joe frazier who threw the same punch all the time. jack dempsey, jake lamotta, harry greb, ketchel, and even berbick all won titles.
Who says Greb ,Dempsey ,Tyson ,and Frazier were crude? Who says Ayala was a great fighter? What would you base his greatness on?Apart from the fact he was unproven he is a piece of shit,who got more chances than he deserved.

[JohnThomas1]

Good of you to enlighten me.

A pleasure :D

You never got the Ayala tapes?

[laxpdx]

A pleasure :D

You never got the Ayala tapes?

Now that I'm newly employed, I just might get around to that sooner than I think.

[JohnThomas1]

Now that I'm newly employed, I just might get around to that sooner than I think.

Congrats mate, well done. I sure know you will appreciate em.

[redrooster]

Who says Greb ,Dempsey ,Tyson ,and Frazier were crude? Who says Ayala was a great fighter? What would you base his greatness on?Apart from the fact he was unproven he is a piece of shit,who got more chances than he deserved.

If you read closely,which you didnt,you would see i was responding to the poster labelling him as crude. This poster said he wouldnt have made it because he was "crude"

I responded by giving examples of great fighters with crude styles. what's so hard to understand about that?

[birddog]

Tony was looking good and moving along, but to go on 22 fights and assume he could deal with the top guys is pure speculation. Look at his record, who did he beat that was a legit contender, Epps, Herrera. Maybe if I had some video, I would see it differently.

Aside from that, had he had a brain, maybe he could have been a great fighter. But instead, your and up and comer making money, and you rob a house and rape a woman. F him.

[laxpdx]

If you read closely,which you didnt,you would see i was responding to the poster labelling him as crude. This poster said he wouldnt have made it because he was "crude"

I responded by giving examples of great fighters with crude styles. what's so hard to understand about that?

I saw a clip of Ayala-Epps today. Man, Tony sure killed his ass, and might have actually done so had both corners not stepped in. The little bull looked pretty damn lethal.
I have little doubt he would've taken Duran, Tony's combination of power and ferocity would just have been too much for the gutsy but smaller, older, overweight man. I just don't see Duran being able to keep pace with him or take his unrelenting body blows for a whole fight. Hearns may have that deadly right hook that might send Tony to the canvas, however, just the same, Tony has that vicious body attack and left hook that seems almost custom-made for Tommy's suspect chin and rib cage. As for Hagler, I think he would've come along at the twilight of his career. Which sucks in a way, because you know it would be that much better of a fight if Marvin was in his prime. Even if Hagler wins, I feel it would've come down to a decision-or last round TKO. I can't think of two fighters so evenly matched like prime Hagler and young Ayala.

[zadfrak]

All that based on the Epps fight, huh? Gee, I always thought of Epps as 3rd tier opposition & didn't know anyone at the time picking him for the victory. Everyone I knew thought it'd be a mismatch. Just how high do you have Epps rated to jump to the conclusion that a victory over Robbie Epps also forecasts a victory over the champ the in the next weight class as well?

[young griffo]

every great figter has their share of critics and Tony was no exception but he was the best fighter to ever come out of the duva stable. so what if he was crude? who says crude fighters cant win titles?

mike tyson was crude as they come. so was joe frazier who threw the same punch all the time. jack dempsey, jake lamotta, harry greb, ketchel, and even berbick all won titles.
The best fighter to come out of the Duva stable???!!!

So he was better than Pernell Whitaker,Evander Holyfield or even Meldrick Taylor was he?:rofl :rofl :rofl

How apt that you call yourself Redrooster because you're a complete cock.

[mcvey]

If you read closely,which you didnt,you would see i was responding to the poster labelling him as crude. This poster said he wouldnt have made it because he was "crude"

I responded by giving examples of great fighters with crude styles. what's so hard to understand about that?
What is crude about Tyson ,and Dempsey's style,Frazier too? Your assertion that Ayala was better than Whitaker,Holyfield ,and Taylor is laughable,who did he beat for you to to base this opinion on? I'm sorry, I can't take your posts seriously are you having a windup?

[kenmore]

how good was he?
ive heard peolple on hear talk pretty highly of him?ive never seen him fight though.what was he like?
could he have dethroned marvelous marvin at middleweight?how would he have faired against the top jr.middleweights such as hearns,benitez,leonard,mccallum and davey moore(i heard he was scheduled to face him before being imprisoned)?

Ayala definitely would have become a world champion, and he definitely would have fought superfights against the big-name boxers you mention. Beyond that, I don't know how good he would have been. We would have to have seen Ayala in action against great fighters before we'd know if he had the potential for all-time greatness.

[mcvey]

Based on what?Definitely.

[Titan1]

I think Tony is a bit overrated, but he did have power, so who knows how far he could have gone.I, however, don't think he would've beaten Davey Moore.

[redrooster]

What is crude about Tyson ,and Dempsey's style,Frazier too? Your assertion that Ayala was better than Whitaker,Holyfield ,and Taylor is laughable,who did he beat for you to to base this opinion on? I'm sorry, I can't take your posts seriously are you having a windup?

im not putting down the style frazier but he was a one armed fighter with a one dimensional attack. lets face it, his style of infighting didnt always work especially against a bigger man that had more of a style, like Foreman.

Tony though could do more things while still looking crude and unlike Joe, he could could be equally as devastating with his right as he was with his left. personally i dont think he was crude even though he was no boxer. the reality is that punchers who come in flat footed whether it be Cuevas or Ayala or Tyson, can get most fighters in trouble fairly easily