This sort of thing annoys me...

[cross_trainer]

Early 90's:


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Dostoevsky]

Why does it annoy you?

[cross_trainer]

Why does it annoy you?
Because the Gracies showed very little respect for Joe Louis's legacy, and imply that he was too cowardly to face Helio--the "best fighter in the world"--whose name was so obscure that few had even heard of him.

The Gracies occasionally have a tendency of being disrespectful to fighters who are not Gracie-trained, and boxers in particular. It is a tendency that some MMA fans seem to have inherited with respect to boxers.

[dwilson]

Makes you wonder why people in the boxing bussiness hate mma don't it. That pic is so stupid it can not be real, was that kind of thing really going on?

[Donut62]

The Gracies occasionally have a tendency of being disrespectful to everyone


*fixed it for you

[cross_trainer]

*fixed it for you

:lol:

[BewareofDawg]

Prime Mike Tyson would kill Royce Gracie. that "fake front kick..then shoot" WOULD NOT work on Tyson!

[geppy]

Mike Tyson claimed to be the baddest man on the planet. He shouldnt be surprised then if someone challenges him to a fight.

I can see being upset over Helio challenging Joe Louis, as he was a class act. But Tyson has no respect for anyone, Tyson is a guy that beats up women, threatens reporters. I dont feel too sorry for Tyson, having a MMArtist wanting to fight him .

[BewareofDawg]

Mike Tyson claimed to be the baddest man on the planet. He shouldnt be surprised then if someone challenges him to a fight.

I can see being upset over Helio challenging Joe Louis, as he was a class act. But Tyson has no respect for anyone, Tyson is a guy that beats up women, threatens reporters. I dont feel too sorry for Tyson, having a MMArtist wanting to fight him .
Feel bad for Tyson?? Feel very lucky that this fight never came off if your an MMA fan. Tyson would have put an end to the craze before it began by turning the sports first champion into a vegetable. Royce would have been demolished inside 20 seconds :deal Imagine a Prime, unmedicated Tyson throwing hooks and uppercuts without gloves on. A wrestler might be able to take him down while avoiding being decapitated.....Royce couldn't have :nono

[geppy]

Feel bad for Tyson?? Feel very lucky that this fight never came off if your an MMA fan. Tyson would have put an end to the craze before it began by turning the sports first champion into a vegetable. Royce would have been demolished inside 20 seconds :deal Imagine a Prime, unmedicated Tyson throwing hooks and uppercuts without gloves on. A wrestler might be able to take him down while avoiding being decapitated.....Royce couldn't have :nono

He should of took the fight then. Rather then avoid Royce's challenge.

[Dostoevsky]

This was in 1996.
Bur Royce got down far bigger men than Tyson.

I say Royce submits Mike with 1 minute.

[younghypnotiq]

no rules would be more evn. beacause if he tried that armbar thing with the legs on his face he would be missing a big chunk of his calf.

[Dostoevsky]

I could envisage Mike getting disqualified through dirty tactics, especially in 1996 when he seemed at his most angry and deranged.

[younghypnotiq]

also grace had troubletaking down a few people. in UFC 4(i believe) he had a vey hard time taking down some karate practicioner. tyson is much stronger than him and wouldnt have been taken down very easy.

[USMCGixxer6]

This was in 1996.
Bur Royce got down far bigger men than Tyson.

I say Royce submits Mike with 1 minute.



hahahaha

you are one of those guys who think that a hs wrestler would kill a boxer on the street or anybody who takes 3 months of bjj would kill a boxer on the street, arent you?

[younghypnotiq]

hahahaha

you are one of those guys who think that a hs wrestler would kill a boxer on the street or anybody who takes 3 months of bjj would kill a boxer on the street, arent you?

hahaha

you are one of those guys who likes to suck dick, arent you? your also one of those guys that think boxerscan beat anyone up in a street fight?

[USMCGixxer6]

In a one on one fight a wrestler would have a better chance than a BJJ fighter because he has much better takedowns. I would favor a wrestler over a boxer for sure in a one on one streetfight. It depends on the BJJ fighters takedown ability and gameplan and if they are able to execute properly.


wow



wow




wow



wow

[USMCGixxer6]

hahaha

you are one of those guys who likes to suck dick, arent you? your also one of those guys that think boxerscan beat anyone up in a street fight?

and for your faggot ass


once again


wow



wow



wow



wow

[younghypnotiq]

and for your faggot ass


once again


wow



wow



wow



wow

wow



wow



wow



wow



your a fucking idiot

[Dostoevsky]

hahahaha

you are one of those guys who think that a hs wrestler would kill a boxer on the street or anybody who takes 3 months of bjj would kill a boxer on the street, arent you?

Yes, I am actually.
It has been done many times during the 'Gracie challenge'
The gracies have submitted many many boxers in NHB fights.

Its not my opinion, its happened time and time again.
If a BJJ fighter or wrestler gets a boxer down, then the boxer is fucked.
And if you're the type of person who thinks that a boxer would land that one 'magic' punch that could knockout any MMA fighter then your fucking delusional.....:nut

[USMCGixxer6]

because a high school wrestler doesnt deal with knees, elbows, kicks, and punches when he goes for the takedown. Now does he?

and hs wrestlers arent trained to much in subs are they? I guess because a boxer doesnt actually throw elbows or punches or eye gouge from the ground, I guess he wouldnt try those things in a fight.

you fucking fanboys and your whole relative streetfighting knowledge on boxers is hilarious. Well since the boxer doesnt train those things for boxing, he wont do them in a fight, yeah ok.


Now against a legit MMA guy, yeah it would be different, but against your run of the mill hs wrestler or bj practicer, ha

[USMCGixxer6]

wow



wow



wow



wow



your a fucking idiot

go back to asking how to throw a proper punch in the training forum

[younghypnotiq]

because a high school wrestler doesnt deal with knees, elbows, kicks, and punches when he goes for the takedown. Now does he?

and hs wrestlers arent trained to much in subs are they? I guess because a boxer doesnt actually throw elbows or punches or eye gouge from the ground, I guess he wouldnt try those things in a fight.

you fucking fanboys and your whole relative streetfighting knowledge on boxers is hilarious. Well since the boxer doesnt train those things for boxing, he wont do them in a fight, yeah ok.


Now against a legit MMA guy, yeah it would be different, but against your run of the mill hs wrestler or bj practicer, ha

lol so you think just because a wrestler doesn punch and knee in a real fight he doesnt now how to? your a fucking idiot. also all he has ton do is take hidown and GnP him

[younghypnotiq]

go back to asking how to throw a proper punch in the training forum

lol go back to asking how to throw a lead uppercut. LMFAO idiot.

[USMCGixxer6]

Yes, I am actually.
It has been done many times during the 'Gracie challenge'
The gracies have submitted many many boxers in NHB fights.

Its not my opinion, its happened time and time again.
If a BJJ fighter or wrestler gets a boxer down, then the boxer is fucked.
And if you're the type of person who thinks that a boxer would land that one 'magic' punch that could knockout any MMA fighter then your fucking delusional.....:nut


oh yeah the gracie challenges, and now you are going to tell me how art jimmerson was the best boxer ever to live and he was so prepared for his fight with royce and royce still ran though him

yawn


and once again im not talking about legit MMA guys, im talking BJJ only and hs wrestlers only.


Never once have I said boxerswould be or are king of the streets

[Dostoevsky]

What makes you think that the run of a mill wrestler/BJJ practionter would go against an elite boxer?

What if they were both sub-standard?
I'd go for the BJJ practioner and wrestler over a boxer anyday.
You don't exactly need to be trained in elbows to know how to deliver them.

[USMCGixxer6]

lol go back to asking how to throw a lead uppercut. LMFAO idiot.

yeah asking about tips on how to use it effectively and how to actually throw it are 2 different things.

you are what 12?

[USMCGixxer6]

What makes you think that the run of a mill wrestler/BJJ practionter would go against an elite boxer?

What if they were both sub-standard?
I'd go for the BJJ practioner and wrestler over a boxer anyday.
You don't exactly need to be trained in elbows to know how to deliver them.

and you dont need to be trained in take downs to take someone down


its all a moot point, thats my point.


streetfights are unpredictable, anybody can beat anyone.

[younghypnotiq]

yah but the wrestler, bjj, have the advantage

[USMCGixxer6]

Who said high school wrestler or run of the mill BJJ practitioner? It depends on how good you are and how good you are able to put your skills to use in a real fight. Simple. Nobody said the boxer wouldn't be able to do a lot of things, but he wouldn't be as effective at them as someone who was trained. A boxer in a street fight isn't gonna know when to throw a knee in the right place when a wrestler shoots, and unless it's a crappy shoot or he has some takedwn defense, he's going down, and the fight's over. It's happened many times with the Graice challenges. It's how it is, it's not even hypothetical, it's proven most of the time.


BECAUSE I SAID HS WRESTLER AND 3 MONTH JJ GUY

that is why.

[USMCGixxer6]

yah but the wrestler, bjj, have the advantage

maybe the wrestler, not so much the bjj guy

ever see someone try to pull guard in the street, not so great

[Dostoevsky]

What if its a 3month boxer......like Mr Viciousboxer77?

[cross_trainer]

oh yeah the gracie challenges, and now you are going to tell me how art jimmerson was the best boxer ever to live and he was so prepared for his fight with royce and royce still ran though him

yawn


and once again im not talking about legit MMA guys, im talking BJJ only and hs wrestlers only.


Never once have I said boxerswould be or are king of the streets

What exactly are you comparing? A professional boxer vs. a 3 month BJJ guy, or a 3 month boxer vs. a 3 month BJJ guy?

Jimmerson didn't train for Gracie because boxers don't do that. That's what makes them boxers rather than MMA guys. And we can assume the same for the hypothetical "streetfight" boxer...unless he took MMA lessons, in which case he's an MMA guy.

The fight isn't necessarily over when it reaches the ground, and the boxer can still fight back as you say. But the point is that a wrestler will have a superior position, even if he hasn't trained any ground striking (neither has the boxer). All other things being equal, the wrestler has a big advantage because of position.

[younghypnotiq]

alright so what your asking who would win in a fight. Mike tyson or a 3 month 120 pd BJJ guy?

[USMCGixxer6]

What if its a 3month boxer......like Mr Viciousboxer77?

then most likely its going to be an ugly roll around on the ground and pull each others hair fight, lol

[cross_trainer]

maybe the wrestler, not so much the bjj guy

ever see someone try to pull guard in the street, not so great

Pulling guard on the pavement won't work, I agree.

But if we have a hypothetical BJJ student vs. a hypothetical boxer who are otherwise equal, the BJJ guy probably has more takedown experience than the boxer (who doesn't have any). So it's more likely that the BJJ guy takes him down.

And I can see your point on the nature of street fights. But there are still greater/lesser probabilities of success with certain styles--otherwise everyone would train Tai Chi and have a 50-50 chance of beating Marvin Hagler.

[USMCGixxer6]

What exactly are you comparing? A professional boxer vs. a 3 month BJJ guy, or a 3 month boxer vs. a 3 month BJJ guy?

Jimmerson didn't train for Gracie because boxers don't do that. That's what makes them boxers rather than MMA guys. And we can assume the same for the hypothetical "streetfight" boxer...unless he took MMA lessons, in which case he's an MMA guy.

The fight isn't necessarily over when it reaches the ground, and the boxer can still fight back as you say. But the point is that a wrestler will have a superior position, even if he hasn't trained any ground striking (neither has the boxer). All other things being equal, the wrestler has a big advantage because of position.

i meant to say pro boxer in the original post, but that doesnt even matter.

all im saying is a streetfight doesnt resemble anything like an MMA fight, so why most of you MMA fanboys try to pull out how such and shuch would kill (enter boxers name here) on the street is retarded.

It is all speculation. So dont fucking bring it up.

[cross_trainer]

then most likely its going to be an ugly roll around on the ground and pull each others hair fight, lol

The ViciousBoxer "Ground n' Slap".

[USMCGixxer6]

Pulling guard on the pavement won't work, I agree.

But if we have a hypothetical BJJ student vs. a hypothetical boxer who are otherwise equal, the BJJ guy probably has more takedown experience than the boxer (who doesn't have any). So it's more likely that the BJJ guy takes him down.

And I can see your point on the nature of street fights. But there are still greater/lesser probabilities of success with certain styles--otherwise everyone would train Tai Chi and have a 50-50 chance of beating Marvin Hagler.

but then again if someone just trains in BJJ they arent used to the possibility of being popped when taking down, see my point.

its all pointless debating, lol

[younghypnotiq]

i meant to say pro boxer in the original post, but that doesnt even matter.

all im saying is a streetfight doesnt resemble anything like an MMA fight, so why most of you MMA fanboys try to pull out how such and shuch would kill (enter boxers name here) on the street is retarded.

It is all speculation. So dont fucking bring it up.

no rampage would kill any boxer.

[cross_trainer]

i meant to say pro boxer in the original post, but that doesnt even matter.

all im saying is a streetfight doesnt resemble anything like an MMA fight, so why most of you MMA fanboys try to pull out how such and shuch would kill (enter boxers name here) on the street is retarded.

It is all speculation. So dont fucking bring it up.

The point they're making is that MMA skills have a lot more carry-over to a no-rules environment than boxing skills (which in turn have a lot more carry-over than, for instance, Tae Kwon Do) since they compete in something closer to no-rules. In the absence of weapons, it is a valid point n'est pas?

Also, I would not consider myself an MMA fanboy. I was interested in martial arts before I was interested in MMA or in boxing.

[USMCGixxer6]

no rampage would kill any boxer.


yeah ok

if you say so, with all of your knowledge on streetfighting.

I mean no boxer has even been a good wrestler in high school or college, and once again you must not be familiar with street fights.

[USMCGixxer6]

So one of those who's never been in a fight vs a a world class boxer? That seems a bit unfair? Why not a 3 month boxer vs a 3 month BJJ practitioner? You know, even it up a bit.

And you were originally making fun of Iron Duke's post for picking Royce Gracie to win, so when did the whole "3 month BJJ guy" thing come into play? What does that matter?

If it's a 3 month BJJ guy he should be against a 3 month boxer to even the playing fields. etc.

lol

fine, ill still probably take the 3 month boxer over a 3 month bjj guy.

at least the boxer has dealt with getting hit before.

[cross_trainer]

but then again if someone just trains in BJJ they arent used to the possibility of being popped when taking down, see my point.

its all pointless debating, lol

True with the punching point. But fights do have a tendency to enter clinch range rather more often than staying in long range.

Yeah...I guess it's pointless. We'd need to find a couple hundred 3-month boxers, wrestlers, and BJJ guys to test it first.

[younghypnotiq]

lol. ive been in a ton more street fights then you. if you live near tucson i have a few people that are wrestlers that would be more than willing to show you how wrestlers will destroy a boxer

[USMCGixxer6]

True with the punching point. But fights do have a tendency to enter clinch range rather more often than staying in long range.

Yeah...I guess it's pointless. We'd need to find a couple hundred 3-month boxers, wrestlers, and BJJ guys to test it first.


exactly


if MMA people would stop trying to bring up how boxers would do in street fights or mma, it would be nice.

I dont see very many threads on how royce gracie would do in a boxing match with anyone.

2 different sports, and tneither are streetfighting, so get it through your heads.

[USMCGixxer6]

lol. ive been in a ton more street fights then you. if you live near tucson i have a few people that are wrestlers that would be more than willing to show you how wrestlers will destroy a boxer

im 3 and a half hours from tuscon.

ill be waiting, what are you 14? threatening someone over the internet with his friends.

oh and just because someone only boxes, doesnt meant they dont know other things. Remember that.

and congrats on being a thug street fighter. Come and send your wrestling buddies to kick my ass, im very scared.

fucking douche

[younghypnotiq]

listen asshole how many street fights do you see with two people stalking each other then throwing a bunch of jabs and a few combos?

[younghypnotiq]

im 3 and a half hours from tuscon.

ill be waiting, what are you 14? threatening someone over the internet with his friends.

oh and just because someone only boxes, doesnt meant they dont know other things. Remember that.

and congrats on being a thug street fighter. Come and send your wrestling buddies to kick my ass, im very scared.

fucking douche

alright. go to south Tucson and ask for Turtle Loc

[cross_trainer]

exactly


if MMA people would stop trying to bring up how boxers would do in street fights or mma, it would be nice.

I dont see very many threads on how royce gracie would do in a boxing match with anyone.

2 different sports, and tneither are streetfighting, so get it through your heads.

I look at it as probabilities. You're more likely to beat your opponent if you box, and likelier still if you do MMA. Anything can still happen, fights are still unpredictable, but MMA is better for streetfighting than boxing, which in turn is better than most other stuff.

[USMCGixxer6]

I disagree, the BJJ fighter's objective is not too strike, and the boxer has no takedown defense or skills on the ground, I believe this fight goes to the ground quickly as I seriously doubt as you delusional people seem to think that the boxer would just KO him with one blow.

im saying 3 months of anything is no experience, all training will be thrown out the window.

and it will be schoolyard brawl/roll around

[younghypnotiq]

not true at all

[cross_trainer]

My, this thread is deteriorating quickly...Gong Sau and all that. :roll:

Let's keep it civilized.

[USMCGixxer6]

alright. go to south Tucson and ask for Turtle Loc

yeah ill hop in my truck right now, lol


fucking idiot.

So should you turn over your jab or not? lol

[USMCGixxer6]

listen asshole how many street fights do you see with two people stalking each other then throwing a bunch of jabs and a few combos?

and how many streetgihts are people going for armbars and gogos and heel hooks?


my point

[younghypnotiq]

hey dumbass the old time boxers say dont turn it and the new school ones say to turn it. besides im an MMA fighter not a boxer

[cross_trainer]

im saying 3 months of anything is no experience, all training will be thrown out the window.

and it will be schoolyard brawl/roll around

Good point, and it makes me think a bit. Impact is probably a greater shock than grappling in a barely trained state. At least the boxer is used to the latter, and can put better leverage in.

[younghypnotiq]

and how many streetgihts are people going for armbars and gogos and heel hooks?


my point

if you can get an armbar on someone the other guy lost he cant fight witha broke elbow

[USMCGixxer6]

I look at it as probabilities. You're more likely to beat your opponent if you box, and likelier still if you do MMA. Anything can still happen, fights are still unpredictable, but MMA is better for streetfighting than boxing, which in turn is better than most other stuff.

no doubt MMA is closer to a "real" fight than boxing, of course.

[cross_trainer]

yeah ill hop in my truck right now, lol


fucking idiot.

So should you turn over your jab or not? lol

Dempsey said you shouldn't, and most modern sources said you should. I'd go with Dempsey in a streetfight and modern guys in an amateur match.

[cross_trainer]

no doubt MMA is closer to a "real" fight than boxing, of course.

Then we probably agree.

[cross_trainer]

As a sidenote, this thread underlines that there may be something to "iron body" training after all. Not the ludicrous chi stuff, but rather conditioning the body to hard blows. Getting used to being hit makes a world of difference.

[USMCGixxer6]

Ones involving BJJ fighters.

its alot tougher to lock something in when fighting dirty sa hell. possible, yes? likely, not so much.


RNC is likely, very likely. other than that, not so likely.

[cross_trainer]

And incidentally, this guy:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

is probably closer to good advice in a street fight than most modern fighters of any style.

[younghypnotiq]

alright you have no idea what your talking about so im gonna sign out an read this thread later. pce

[USMCGixxer6]

As a sidenote, this thread underlines that there may be something to "iron body" training after all. Not the ludicrous chi stuff, but rather conditioning the body to hard blows. Getting used to being hit makes a world of difference.


exactly, most streetfights end when somebody gets that first clean shot in, most other streetfights dont end till other people jump in.

Streetfights dont normally last more than a minute.

[USMCGixxer6]

alright you have no idea what your talking about so im gonna sign out an read this thread later. pce

yeah ok


keep it real homie



everybody will respect the shit out of you when you put somebody in a heel hook in a streetfight.

Mad respect dawg

[cross_trainer]

exactly, most streetfights end when somebody gets that first clean shot in, most other streetfights dont end till other people jump in.

Streetfights dont normally last more than a minute.

Which would tend to favor "Tank Abbott Training"--lift lots of weights, forget cardio, train boxing and wrestling, and get yourself into plenty of streetfights. Strange, but then again it almost got him the UFC belt.

[USMCGixxer6]

Which would tend to favor "Tank Abbott Training"--lift lots of weights, forget cardio, train boxing and wrestling, and get yourself into plenty of streetfights. Strange, but then again it almost got him the UFC belt.

LOL

streetfighting is the gayness anyways

why train for streetfights, stay out of them. too much legal trouble to be had.

[cross_trainer]

LOL

streetfighting is the gayness anyways

why train for streetfights, stay out of them. too much legal trouble to be had.

Agreed, though "self-defense" is still useful to know. Just like it's always a good idea to have a fire detector, even though you don't regularly try to burn down your house. :D

[Donut62]

As a sidenote, this thread underlines that there may be something to "iron body" training after all. Not the ludicrous chi stuff, but rather conditioning the body to hard blows. Getting used to being hit makes a world of difference.

I very much agree with this. The first time you get clocked hard is a real eye opener. You can see it with guys like Arona who are primarily grapplers with little striking experience, they make a face like they are pooping their pants when they get hit.

[USMCGixxer6]

Agreed, though "self-defense" is still useful to know. Just like it's always a good idea to have a fire detector, even though you don't regularly try to burn down your house. :D

true, but lets be real here.

If you practice boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, judo, bjj, etc. That is going to be plenty for self defense 99% of the time

[cross_trainer]

true, but lets be real here.

If you practice boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, judo, bjj, etc. That is going to be plenty for self defense 99% of the time

Yes. That was what I meant--martial arts training under sparring conditions.

I was not implying that you should go out and start street fights. :good

[enquirer]

Of course MMA is the most relevant to street fighting,but its still not streetfighting.....In the street guys can bite,kick balls,gouge and such like.....Nobody in MMA or any other sport trains to avoid this stuff......Really streetfighting is unpredictable and more about agression and who can incapacitate the other guy pretty quickly.....
If someone got a lock on mike tyson he might bite them or squeeze their balls.....Streetfighting can be a bit of a lottery.,even between skilled guys,just like some MMA matches...
These sports were made to eliminate the more unsavoury practices of barenuckle free for alls.....All of these full combat sports can have their practical uses and thay all need skills,some folks are more suited to MMA,some to wrestling and some to boxing....I think the biggest assets in streetfights are agression,will to win and the ability to apply hurt quickly...
Its very difficult to decide if gracie or tyson would win a streetfight because there are too many intangibles and we dont really know how good either of the guys are in a pure no rules streetfight.....

[younghypnotiq]

if i have someone in an armbar and he grabs my nuts ill just pull harder to break his arm so he stops

[enquirer]

what if he bites you,or pokes your eyes?

[younghypnotiq]

listen if i have him in a front choke and he grabs my balls por bites them then i will choke him out so he stops. if i have an armbar and he bites me then he will have a broken arm and i will win anyway. if i have him in a choke and he stabs my eyes then i will again just choke him out

[cross_trainer]

Another thought: Tyson's supposed one punch knockout of Mitch Green in a streetfight (a professional boxer trained to take punches) would argue that the one magical punch IS possible under the right "street" circumstances.

[USMCGixxer6]

listen if i have him in a front choke and he grabs my balls por bites them then i will choke him out so he stops. if i have an armbar and he bites me then he will have a broken arm and i will win anyway. if i have him in a choke and he stabs my eyes then i will again just choke him out


haha, ok buddy.

[Beebs]

haha, ok buddy.

I think its a rather reasonable response, if youve got somebody in a position where you can incapacitate them, and they attack you, that you would go for the gusto and finish them quicker, whether it be breaking a limb or choking them unconscious or to death.

[USMCGixxer6]

I think its a rather reasonable response, if youve got somebody in a position where you can incapacitate them, and they attack you, that you would go for the gusto and finish them quicker, whether it be breaking a limb or choking them unconscious or to death.


Just like if someone is going to punch me I am going to block it or slip it.

Of course you are going to try and do that, but it is a lot easier said than done. Especially if you are fighting someone bigger/ a lot stronger.

[USMCGixxer6]

also its a lot harder to set something up when fighting dirty, try to do anything after you have been eye gouged hard as shit. You wont be able to see my fucking arm, so good luck and trying to lock in a armbar then.

[cross_trainer]

also its a lot harder to set something up when fighting dirty, try to do anything after you have been eye gouged hard as shit. You wont be able to see my fucking arm, so good luck and trying to lock in a armbar then.

Gordeau gouged Nakai to the point where he was blind in one eye, and Nakai still won. It's conceivable that he'd be able to "feel" his way to victory anyway.

This is getting so abstract that we might as well be playing chess, though.

[USMCGixxer6]

Gordeau gouged Nakai to the point where he was blind in one eye, and Nakai still won. It's conceivable that he'd be able to "feel" his way to victory anyway.

This is getting so abstract that we might as well be playing chess, though.

exactly, joe son took some shots in the nuts and kept going. Anything can happen, but it usually doesnt. Just like someone untrained can throw a knee out when you rush in for a takedown and kill you.

But I agree with you, especially the 2nd part.

[Beebs]

also its a lot harder to set something up when fighting dirty, try to do anything after you have been eye gouged hard as shit. You wont be able to see my fucking arm, so good luck and trying to lock in a armbar then.

The scenario was that you already had the person in the hold, so thats what I was going with.

[Muchmoore]

UFC/MMA fighters tend to have very little punching ability. Tyson would demolish him before he could take him down and even if he took him down Tyson was too strong and the biting would put a damper on that pansy.

I hate this sort of thing too. Tyson had made loads of money at that point, was a heavyweight champion and people think he ducked some guy who most people don't even care about. Why fight him in a street fight?

[cross_trainer]

UFC/MMA fighters tend to have very little punching ability. Tyson would demolish him before he could take him down and even if he took him down Tyson was too strong and the biting would put a damper on that pansy.

I hate this sort of thing too. Tyson had made loads of money at that point, was a heavyweight champion and people think he ducked some guy who most people don't even care about. Why fight him in a street fight?

And worse yet, there's the accusation that Joe Louis was too cowardly to fight Helio Gracie--whom Louis had never heard of and who probably didn't send him a challenge anyway.