If prime Lupe Pintor was around today he'd be #1 P4P

[sweet_scientist]

Discuss with reference to the outstanding level of the game today :good

[AlFrancis]

i don't know about no 1 but I would definitely say at least top 5. A vastly underated fighter and I think he suffers in his all time rating as does Jeff Chandler by them two not getting together. He's also remembered for his loss at super bantam against all time great Wilfredo Gomez which was an all out war against an undisputed all time great, as far as I'm concerned. He' s not given credit for the win over Carlos Zarate either, controversial as it might of been. Zarate probably rated in most peoples top 5 of bantams. Won the super bantam title when past his best.

[sweet_scientist]

I think the Pintor that fought Wilfredo Gomez would stop both Israel Vasquez and Rafael Marquez without too many problems.

Goes without saying he mops the floor with anyone at 118. If Mijares moved up to face him there he'd be beaten.

Perhaps Pac would still be no.1, but I think at his best Lupe is at least as good as JMM, and I'd pick Lupe to thump Pac when he was crossing 118 and to beat him clearly at 122.

[AlFrancis]

I think the Pintor that fought Wilfredo Gomez would stop both Israel Vasquez and Rafael Marquez without too many problems.

Goes without saying he mops the floor with anyone at 118. If Mijares moved up to face him there he'd be beaten.

Perhaps Pac would still be no.1, but I think at his best Lupe is at least as good as JMM, and I'd pick Lupe to thump Pac when he was crossing 118 and to beat him clearly at 122.
I agree with that. Where do you put him in todays top 5 ?

[sweet_scientist]

I agree with that. Where do you put him in todays top 5 ?
A prime Pintor would probably be no.1.

Pac and Marquez are both past their absolute best and Hopkins and Calzaghe are fossilized.

He's clearly better than the likes of Margarito and Cotto and as has been said, I think he takes Vasquez and Marquez.

Of course it would depend on what Pintor had accomplished.

If say he had comfortably beaten the likes of Mijares, Vasquez and R. Marquez, (which I think he would) I'd say he'd sit as my no.1 today.

Of course, the (thinly-veiled) message that I'm trying to impart in this thread is that a fighter like Lupe Pintor, who never really entered a p4p list of his time, is as good as anyone today, and that ultimately, this speaks of the decline in boxing, which many, don't want to admit.

[AlFrancis]

A prime Pintor would probably be no.1.

Pac and Marquez are both past their absolute best and Hopkins and Calzaghe are fossilized.

He's clearly better than the likes of Margarito and Cotto and as has been said, I think he takes Vasquez and Marquez.

Of course it would depend on what Pintor had accomplished.

If say he had comfortably beaten the likes of Mijares, Vasquez and R. Marquez, (which I think he would) I'd say he'd sit as my no.1 today.

Of course, the (thinly-veiled) message that I'm trying to impart in this thread is that a fighter like Lupe Pintor, who never really entered a p4p list of his time, is as good as anyone today, and that ultimately, this speaks of the decline in boxing, which many, don't want to admit.
I think you could be right.

[AlFrancis]

Have you seen this new stuff:
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[sweet_scientist]

Have you seen this new stuff:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

That's a fantastic compilation of pin point punching. Pintor was murder with the left hooks and uppercuts when he had a guy hurt. :good

[heehoo]

Pintor would have too much skill for just about any bantamweight today, he'd be a title holder for a LONG time in this era.

[JohnThomas1]

Pintor was a superb fighter, as was Chandler. It says a lot of their era that they were overshadowed substancially among fellow champions. At the same time we had Gomez, Sanchez, Arguello, Pryor, SRL, Hearns, Benitez, Duran, Hagler, Spinks, Holmes etc - Jeeeeeesus.

[sweet_scientist]

Pintor was a superb fighter, as was Chandler. It says a lot of their era that they were overshadowed substancially among fellow champions. At the same time we had Gomez, Sanchez, Arguello, Pryor, SRL, Hearns, Benitez, Duran, Hagler, Spinks, Holmes etc - Jeeeeeesus.

Yup, those names speak for themselves. I don't think anyone that today populates a top ten p4p list would be there if the list included such figures.

[Raging B(_)LL]

I agree wholeheartedly with your assesment of Pintor S_S and the state of the game today. I am still amazed at how so many think that boxing has evolved and is actually more competitive today when all the evidence speaks to the contrary.

[TommyV]

He wipes the floor with everybody at 118, most if not everybody at 122, and probably the majority again if not all of 126.

[Jack]

He'd probably beat Marquez at 122, but from what I've seen of both, I'd back Marquez to stop him at 118. he beats everyone else around those weightclasses though. Vazquez would give him a tough fight, but lose eventually.

I'm not really a fan of these threads though, because there is always a bias shown towards the retired fighter. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know, but there is.

[Mantequilla]

Davila would be really high up the P4P rankings as well were he around today.

I might have to watch his rematch with Pintor again actually.What a fight!.

[bladerunner]

He'd probably beat Marquez at 122, but from what I've seen of both, I'd back Marquez to stop him at 118. he beats everyone else around those weightclasses though. Vazquez would give him a tough fight, but lose eventually.

I'm not really a fan of these threads though, because there is always a bias shown towards the retired fighter. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know, but there is.
in this case i have to agree with you,people talking like Marquez and Vazquez are just average fighters and Pintor some kind of a boxing genius.
Pintor was very good but saying he would beat Vazquez and Marquez with ease is ridiculous.

[Mantequilla]

I dunno man, The sixties through to the eighties were the golden period below feather.

Since then it's dropped off pretty damn bad, with the likes of Calderon being considered possibly P4P.

Marquez though a decent solid fighter would have been hard pressed to win a world title back then and it aint nostalgia.

The real talent in recent years at Bantam was Sahaprom imo.Much better skills(and a hard hitter) than any of the higher profile american based fighters like Austin or Marquez.

[sweet_scientist]

in this case i have to agree with you,people talking like Marquez and Vazquez are just average fighters and Pintor some kind of a boxing genius.
Pintor was very good but saying he would beat Vazquez and Marquez with ease is ridiculous.

What difficulties will Pintor have with them? He is tougher than both by far and if he gets them into a slug fest, which he will, he will mow them down.

Seriously watch Pintor-Gomez and the Vasquez-Marquez fights and tell me that it will be competitive.

[Raging B(_)LL]

Lets not forget all of a sudden that Izzy`s defense is almost completely non-existant and that he bleeds at the drop of a hat and that Marquez has a fragile chin and a leaky defense as well, neither of which bodes well for them against someone of Pintor`s pedigree.

[Sweet Pea]

Did Jack just say he would favor Marquez over anybody at 118? All time? Pintor is pretty much the perfect fighter to blast him out, considering his performances against Vasquez.

[McGrain]

I think Pacquiao would still be number one. Why is he past his prime? He arguably just put in his best most convincing performance at a still higher weight.

[Sweet Pea]

To be frank, in literal terms I thought Pintor at his best was on a similar level to a young Chavez. Very underrated.

[sweet_scientist]

I think Pacquiao would still be number one. Why is he past his prime? He arguably just put in his best most convincing performance at a still higher weight.

His speed and activity levels are not the same since leaving 126 imo. He has become a little more refined since then and can box a little better, but that does not mean he is a better fighter. His speed and activity are what made him a demonic fighter.

[McGrain]

His speed and activity levels are not the same since leaving 126 imo. He has become a little more refined since then and can box a little better, but that does not mean he is a better fighter. His speed and activity are what made him a demonic fighter.

I agree, but in the days you are talking about he was basically one handed. Of course he is a better fighter now! He uses two hands to hurt an opponent, he has more than one way to win a fight, you don't look more impressive whilst moving UP in weight, taking on bigger men unless you are improving. Pac is a much better fighter than he was at 122. His activity levels were not maintainable whilst employing the fight plans he is currently using. Which are vastly superior.

[Matienza]

I think someone like Hasegawa can actually beat Pintor. Inconsistent career he had.

[The dipper]

Lupe Pinter had a war with Johnny Owen

Lupe Pinter was a great fighter and could own the show in 2008

[Drew101]

Lets not forget all of a sudden that Izzy`s defense is almost completely non-existant and that he bleeds at the drop of a hat and that Marquez has a fragile chin and a leaky defense as well, neither of which bodes well for them against someone of Pintor`s pedigree.

Yeah, if you were going to trouble Pintor, you were doing it through skill, rather than will. Of today's bantamweights/super featherweights, I think Hasegawa and Molitor would give Pintor better fights than Izzy and Marquez, given their abilty to get drawn into the trenches.

[sweet_scientist]

I agree, but in the days you are talking about he was basically one handed. Of course he is a better fighter now! He uses two hands to hurt an opponent, he has more than one way to win a fight, you don't look more impressive whilst moving UP in weight, taking on bigger men unless you are improving. Pac is a much better fighter than he was at 122. His activity levels were not maintainable whilst employing the fight plans he is currently using. Which are vastly superior.

His performances against lesser versions of Marquez and Barrera in the rematches would suggest otherwise.

He could have beaten Diaz without the use of any hands so that fight means nothing in my estimation.

Pac might be a better fighter now than he was at 122, but not than when he was at 126, even though he was more one dimensional there; that one dimension made him destroy Barrera and (imo) clearly beat Marquez, something he didn't quite do in the rematches with those two.

You can bring up his performance against Morales in their rematch asa sign of improvement, but I put that down more to Morales being absolutely shot. When Manny moved to 130 he wasn't the same imo.