Stanley Ketchel - where is he in the pantheon of great middleweights?

[DINAMITA]

We are talking about a guy who drew with Sam Langford, and who is widely acknowledged to have been one of the most concussive punchers in history.

Is he in the very top tier of middleweight greats like Monzon and Robinson?

[Loewe]

Not quite but very close he is at my tier 3 together with Walker equaling a ranking between 6 and 7.

[mcvey]

We are talking about a guy who drew with Sam Langford, and who is widely acknowledged to have been one of the most concussive punchers in history.

Is he in the very top tier of middleweight greats like Monzon and Robinson?
Top 5 for his power,which he carried all through a fight.

[TommyV]

He has to rank highly, given the fact that he was only 23 when murdered and would of probably progressived even further and been pretty active, he could of probably had upwards of 140 fights, with more great victories forth coming.

He already has wins over the likes of Billy Papke, 3 times, and Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, 2 times, add to obviously the World Middleweight title, and a courageous effort against a prime Jack Johnson, when he lasted until the 12th when outweighed by 30lbs.

Great power aswell, so he ranks pretty well head-to-head. Therefore, taking into account all this, I would place him certainly top 8, perhaps top 5/6.

[janitor]

Is he in the very top tier of middleweight greats like Monzon and Robinson?

A case could certainly be made for having him up with Monzon and Robinson.

Ketchel was murdered at the age of 23 with a lot of unfinished business. He is for that reason the Salvador Sanchez figure of the 1900s.

Despite his early demise his resume is solid.

Top middleweights he beat include:

Joe Thomas

Mike Twin Sullivan

Jack Twin Sullivan

Billy Papke

Hugo Kelly

On top of that he has two wins over the top light heavyweight of the day Philadelphia Jack O'Brien. O'Brien held Jack Johnson to a draw between the two fights.

A nice finishing touch is his destruction of Dan Porky Flyn who was a prety servicable heavyweight contender.

[Loewe]

A case could certainly be made for having him up with Monzon and Robinson.

Ketchel was murdered at the age of 23 with a lot of unfinished business. He is for that reason the Salvador Sanchez figure of the 1900s.

Despite his early demise his resume is solid.

Top middleweights he beat include:

Joe Thomas

Mike Twin Sullivan

Jack Twin Sullivan

Billy Papke

Hugo Kelly

On top of that he has two wins over the top light heavyweight of the day Philadelphia Jack O'Brien. O'Brien held Jack Johnson to a draw between the two fights.

A nice finishing touch is his destruction of Dan Porky Flyn who was a prety servicable heavyweight contender.

He also has a draw against Frank Klaus who would go on to win the mw title later on.

[janitor]

He also has a draw against Frank Klaus who would go on to win the mw title later on.

Might be worth knowing a bit more about that one. It almost certainly would have resulted in a newspaper decision win for one fighter.

[Russell]

I can't see how anyone would have him outside of their top 15, middleweight wise.

[Grebfan9]

Stanley Ketchel was a POWERFUL puncher and ranks in my
top 5 middleweight list for sure!!!

I think that Ketchel would have destroyed Graziano, Lamotta,
Emile Griffith, and Gene Fullmer, to name a few.



Grebfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[the cobra]

Certainly a top 10 at the weight IMO all-time.

BTW, I think LaMotta would have put a pretty bad beating on Ketchel.

He's one of the few who could probably stand up to his punch, and the skill level is vast IMO.

[Kyoodle]

Certainly a top 10 at the weight IMO all-time.

BTW, I think LaMotta would have put a pretty bad beating on Ketchel.

He's one of the few who could probably stand up to his punch, and the skill level is vast IMO.

LaMotta would have been broken down and KTFO by the 10th round. Jake didn't have the power to keep Ketchel off or away. His crouch was tailor-made for the unorthodox hook-uppercuts Ketchel was fond of throwing, and Ketchel had much quicker hands than LaMotta.

Sorry, I like the Bull, but this is a virtual walkover for Ketchel.

[Axl_Nose]

Stanley Ketchel sits comfortably in the pantheon of top 10 middleweights in history with guys like Fullmer, Cerdan and Hagler but theres only 1 true king of the Middleweights and thats Carlos Monzon

[Grebfan9]

LaMotta would have been broken down and KTFO by the 10th round. Jake didn't have the power to keep Ketchel off or away. His crouch was tailor-made for the unorthodox hook-uppercuts Ketchel was fond of throwing, and Ketchel had much quicker hands than LaMotta.

Sorry, I like the Bull, but this is a virtual walkover for Ketchel.


I agree - Stanley Ketchel hit like a heavyweight. LaMotta was tough
but Ketchel feasted on fighters with Jake's walkin style.


Grebfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[Maxmomer]

I have him at three, behind Greb and Monzon, ahead of Hagler and Robinson. At his best, no 160 pounder of the era could stand up to him. He lost the middlweight title on a cheap shot, came back and recovered it, dominating a fellow ATG middleweight in the process. He smashed the best contenders and KO'd durable fighters with ease. He KO'd a great light-heavy in Jack O' Brien twice. He gave H2H No. 1 light-heavyweight of all time, Sam Langford, a rough 6 round fight. He knocked down Johnson and KO'd Porky Flynn quicker than anyone other than Jack Dempsey and the 6'4" 220 pound Fred Fulton. He also had some of the most freakish physical assets the boxing world has ever seen, including inhuman stamina, durablity and punching power.

[Russell]

Stanley Ketchel sits comfortably in the pantheon of top 10 middleweights in history with guys like Fullmer, Cerdan and Hagler but theres only 1 true king of the Middleweights and thats Carlos Monzon

Wait, Fullmer's a top ten ATG middleweight?

Since when?

[redrooster]

i'd like to see how he does against roy jones before i answer that. we saw what happened with johnson. as soon as it turned into a real fight, Jack ended it right away and put him to sleep with ketchel's teeth in his gloves. all boxing historians know this

[SuperSouthpaw]

ketchel would have given bob fitzimmons a bad beating. ketchel is the most underated fighter on ESB

[Axl_Nose]

Wait, Fullmer's a top ten ATG middleweight?

Since when?

Theres no way your havin Hopkins ahead of Fullmer, so dont even go there .. Im paranoid about these Hopkins fans, they always pop up trying to compare Hopkins with the 'True' Middleweight champs .. Hopkins shouldnt ever make top 10, ever, ever , ever !!!!!!!!!

[he grant]

He was a warrior with terrific stamina and power .... I truly do not know how he would measure up to more polished guys ... note, he was already past his prime when he was killed ... Ketchel lived very hard. He was an opium addict as well ... his best days were behind him believe it or not ... I strongly believe Langford carried him but then I cannot hold Langford against him as Langford beats everyone in my book ...

[Russell]

Theres no way your havin Hopkins ahead of Fullmer, so dont even go there .. Im paranoid about these Hopkins fans, they always pop up trying to compare Hopkins with the 'True' Middleweight champs .. Hopkins shouldnt ever make top 10, ever, ever , ever !!!!!!!!!

:lol::lol::lol:

No one else on here would agree with your flimsy notion there, Axl.

[Ted Spoon]

Ketchel was a tornado, a ancient slugger who is rarely understood nowadays.

He was not a flailing fool, but an unorthodox gale. And 'unorthodox' is not a cop-out word for a desperate defence case, Ketchel had his own evil way.

Stanley made his homegrown brand of street fighting into a science, so while the crude exterior remained, a ticking brain ensured he leapt in with the unsuspecting shots, and he really did 'leap' into the shots.

Legend has it that Stanley imagined that his opponent had said something derogatory about his mother, with whom he had a close bond with, so he began fights with real intent.

Ketchel is right up there with the tip-top middleweights. Whatever the opinion may be of his 'science' the man had no quit in him and carried his power into the darkest depths of the ring.

There was no garentee with Stanley Ketchel, he was there to cause serious damage and fight to the bitter end. Langford may of been taking charge in his bout with Ketchel, but as Jack Johnson found out, things aren't that simple with Ketchel. He's not one to be undersold.

[heehoo]

One of the greatest of all time, probably the hardest punching middleweight, probably top 3.