Skilled Heavyweights

[Russell]

I don't know if fast twitch fibers become rarer the larger you are or what, but reaction time and fluidity aren't a heavyweight staple from everything I've seen. Nor are 230 pound and up giants too keen on learning how to do a lot more than wade in and punch.

I'm not talking about raw speed and athleticism like Ali, but fighters who understood and practiced pure boxing. The kind of skills that are a common occurrence in lower weight classes.

Tony Tubb's springs to mind. Beautiful to watch when he was on, motivated and in shape, like he was against Bowe.

In another vein, Lawrence Clay Bey. I saw him described once as a heavyweight James Toney, and god, it's true.

Why is it that heavyweights on the fat side end up being skilled anyway? To make up for their physical disadvantages?

Anyway, who else? Legitimately skillful heavyweights.

Jimmy Young? Jimmy Ellis?

[Titan1]

Greg Page, Carl Williams, maybe James Tillis.

[Rebel-INS]

Jersey Joe Walcott springs to mind.

[Russell]

Greg Page, Carl Williams, maybe James Tillis.

Just how skilled do you feel Page, Williams and Tillis were?

[Titan1]

Just how skilled do you feel Page, Williams and Tillis were?

Carl Williams, and Tillis had very good skill, but Page, as far as what he had as a pure boxer, at heavy, no one really touched him, as far as the last 20-something years.

[groove]

speed is the name of the game. that's why ali, robinson even calzaghe
are at the top. power fighters are below. speed beats beats power and that's a fact.

[Charles White]

Greg Page, Carl Williams, maybe James Tillis. Definitely Tillis.

[Dempsey1238]

speed is the name of the game. that's why ali, robinson even calzaghe
are at the top. power fighters are below. speed beats beats power and that's a fact.

Not sure, there had been just as many slow guys beating the speeders.

Tell that to

Rocky Marciano vs Walcott, Charles and LarSarza.
Joe Fraizer vs Ali, and Ellis.
Jim Jeff vs Corbett
Fitz vs Corbett
Jack Dempsey vs Sharkey(Dempsey had lost his speed)
Louis vs Conn and Walcott.
These are times when power beats speed. Talking heavyweights of couse.

[MrMagic]

Speed does kill, but the true key is TIMING.

Timing can neutralize anything.

[Kairos]

Wladimir Klitschko

[sp6r=underrated]

Don't laugh, Bowe was a pretty skilled superheavyweight. Unlike the rest of that bunch he actually bothered to learn in fighting skills instead of just jabbing and grabbing.

[Russell]

Carl Williams, and Tillis had very good skill, but Page, as far as what he had as a pure boxer, at heavy, no one really touched him, as far as the last 20-something years.

Any fights I can dig up to see peak Page in action?

[red cobra]

Ezzard Charles. Watch the film of his victory over Joe Louis. I don't care if it was an old Louis, Charles was brilliant, with all the moves.

[JohnThomas1]

Definitely Tillis.

Page among others would run rings around Tillis. Witherspoon had the potential to be a very skilled heavyweight but laziness and lack of motivation brings his mark down enormously.

[pryorgatti]

Tony Tucker
Larry Holmes
Tyrell Biggs
Car Williams

[natonic]

Page among others would run rings around Tillis. Witherspoon had the potential to be a very skilled heavyweight but laziness and lack of motivation brings his mark down enormously.

Just watched Witherspoon last night vs Bonecrusher Smith. I can't recall but wouldn't be surprised if the Promoter tried to withhold his purse for that non effort. He was really good when on and motivated though.

[Bokaj]

Holyfield had good all-round skills. Zora Folley.

[Sweet Pea]

Don't laugh, Bowe was a pretty skilled superheavyweight. Unlike the rest of that bunch he actually bothered to learn in fighting skills instead of just jabbing and grabbing.True. At his best, Bowe was one of the skilled in-fighters of any Heavy I've seen. One of the most skilled Heavies period, though he lacked in other intangible areas.

[janitor]

Heavyweights whose skills would be noteworthy in any weight class are few and far between.

Also most of them are actualy smaller fighters stepping up (indicated in red)

For my money the following names:

Bob Fitzsimmons

Tommy Burns

Jack Johnson

Sam Langford

Jack Dempsey

Gene Tunney

Tommy Loughran

Joe Louis

Jersey Joe Walcott

Ezzard Charles

Floyd Patterson (borderline light heavy)

Muhamad Ali

Mike Tyson

[JohnThomas1]

Just watched Witherspoon last night vs Bonecrusher Smith. I can't recall but wouldn't be surprised if the Promoter tried to withhold his purse for that non effort. He was really good when on and motivated though.

Yeah, a fishy fight from Tim's legend has it. Tho he put it together better than Page and Dokes and the other underachievers he still disappoints me. The whole three of them could have done much much much bigger things.

[mr. magoo]

Just watched Witherspoon last night vs Bonecrusher Smith. I can't recall but wouldn't be surprised if the Promoter tried to withhold his purse for that non effort. He was really good when on and motivated though.

Where did you find that match?

[bum of the week]

Holyfield had good all-round skills. Zora Folley.

Very good pick! Of all heavys i've seen Folley was the best from a technically point of view. Really a textbook type of fighter.

And Evander was really good at the basics, something that wasn't always evident as his heart seemed to take over from his brain as soon as he was tagged.

Another fighter I remember as a pretty good technician was Thad
Spencer. Good combination hitter who always worked of the jab.

If skillful supersized heavys are mentioned Buster Mathis sr. was the first of this species and maybe the most skillful. Alas he lacked the mentality.
But of these fighters only Evander made it all the way which indicates that allround skills isn't that important in a division where one punch can change the course of events.
There just aren't any hw versions of Harold Johnson, SRR, SRL, Carlos Ortiz or Ricardo Lopez. For heavys it's more a case of finding a style that enables you to use your strenghts rather than develop a flawless technique.

[Russell]

Very good pick! Of all heavys i've seen Folley was the best from a technically point of view. Really a textbook type of fighter.

And Evander was really good at the basics, something that wasn't always evident as his heart seemed to take over from his brain as soon as he was tagged.

Another fighter I remember as a pretty good technician was Thad
Spencer. Good combination hitter who always worked of the jab.

If skillful supersized heavys are mentioned Buster Mathis sr. was the first of this species and maybe the most skillful. Alas he lacked the mentality.
But of these fighters only Evander made it all the way which indicates that allround skills isn't that important in a division where one punch can change the course of events.
There just aren't any hw versions of Harold Johnson, SRR, SRL, Carlos Ortiz or Ricardo Lopez. For heavys it's more a case of finding a style that enables you to use your strenghts rather than develop a flawless technique.
Great post!

Welcome to the boards too. I think we've found another solid poster for Classic. :)

[Bokaj]

For heavys it's more a case of finding a style that enables you to use your strenghts rather than develop a flawless technique.

Probably one of the most insightful things I've read on this forum. I extend a warm welcome as well.

I would say that Foreman is the perfect example of that.

[Brian123]

James Jeffries was a trained sprinter who could run 100 yards in ten seconds, and could high jump over six feet.

Now that's skilled!

[Titan1]

Any fights I can dig up to see peak Page in action?

Page-Stan Ward and Page-Evangelista are good fights, but the fight you would really want to see is Page-Marty Monroe, that is the best Page performance out there. His Scott LeDoux fight was also one of his best moments.

[Russell]

Page-Stan Ward and Page-Evangelista are good fights, but the fight you would really want to see is Page-Marty Monroe, that is the best Page performance out there. His Scott LeDoux fight was also one of his best moments.

Gotcha. Thank you.

[Bummy Davis]

JJWalcott was one of the best skilled with power but was a bit eratic for various reasons...an on JJW could upset anyone, unfortunately he had to fight the divisions top punchers in Louis and Marciano. Ezzard Charles was also one of the most skilled. Toney at 5"9 and overweight and 38-39 yrs old is still a force today vs some very big men yet he holds his own pretty good

[Minotauro]

Jersey Joe he could things other fighters could only dream about.

[Russell]

Jersey Joe he could things other fighters could only dream about.

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