View Full Version : Miguel Cotto v Kostya Tszyu
Prime KT vs Cotto of today who wins? Keep in mind the two fighters who troubled KT were guys that came forwards and managed to push him back. But he also had great success against pressure fighters like Gonzalez and Chavez even though Chavez was well past his prime. I think that Cotto could negate the power of Tszyu by closing the distance and not giving him room to get off. Cotto is definitely the better man in close quarters, but KT would hold the upper hand at boxing distance. How would this fight play out? A war no doubt.
Do you really want to ppl to answer or just listen to you spin how you think Cotto breaks KT down? :lol:
Dr Gonzo
07-31-2007, 11:47 PM
total war - but i think KT still gets the late KO. Cotto appears to get easily frustrated and KT would eventually where him down by throwing big combinations from the outside
Do you really want to ppl to answer or just listen to you spin how you think Cotto breaks KT down? :lol:
hahahaha. No I don't think that Cotto wins necessarily. I just wanted to see what people had to say, particularly Boppa.
total war - but i think KT still gets the late KO. Cotto appears to get easily frustrated and KT would eventually where him down by throwing big combinations from the outside
Easily frustrated. How so?
Kostya as an amatuer was a totally diff fighter to the professional one. I think KT wins this on accuracy of his hard straight punches. It wouldn't be easy but he would win. Without giving too much thought I would say by KO.
Do you really want to ppl to answer or just listen to you spin how you think Cotto breaks KT down? :lol:
Actually, I kind of guessed everyone here would pick Tszyu, so I thought it might be an interesting discussion, but you just pretty much killed it you prick hahaha.
Cotto is growing on me as a fighter. He reminds me of a young Vargas. Young, hungry and eager to step to the next level quickly to make a big name. Vargas was a good fighter, alot better than he is today.
Cotto will be a superstar.
Kostya as an amatuer was a totally diff fighter to the professional one. I think KT wins this on accuracy of his hard straight punches. It wouldn't be easy but he would win. Without giving too much thought I would say by KO.
But he isn't fighting Kt as an amatuer he is fighting him as a pro. I agree that as an amatuer he was a very intelligent fighter. But KT's ego was his biggest downfall, and resulted in both of his losses. If he had fought smart against both these guys he would have won, but he chose to go to war. From the outside KT is surely the better boxer with more power. But inside Cotto is clearly the better man, with the tighter punches and better combinations. How would KT approach this fight knowing that he doesnt like to fight off the back foot?
Dr Gonzo
07-31-2007, 11:59 PM
Easily frustrated. How so?
i just think he gets a bit wild when he cant ko someone - in the late rounds against Judah he started to throw some stupid shots and seemed to be getting frustrated at not being able to put Zab away. If he tried to do that against KT he could leave himself open to the big straight shots right on the button; either way it would have been a great fight
Cotto is growing on me as a fighter. He reminds me of a young Vargas. Young, hungry and eager to step to the next level quickly to make a big name. Vargas was a good fighter, alot better than he is today.
Cotto will be a superstar.
hahaha. Good to hear. Hopefully he doesn't get startched like Vargas when he faces the true elite though. ONly time will tell. I'll pretty drop this topic then. For the record I think at this point in time I would have to go with KT, based on his achievements. If he catches Cotto it would be goodnight on his average chin. And Cotto isn't as bad a style match up as Hatton was for KT IMO. Still would have been interesting. If Cotto beats Mosley and another top guy at welterweight, particularly a power puncher like Cintron then my opinion will probably change.
But he isn't fighting Kt as an amatuer he is fighting him as a pro. I agree that as an amatuer he was a very intelligent fighter. But KT's ego was his biggest downfall, and resulted in both of his losses. If he had fought smart against both these guys he would have won, but he chose to go to war. From the outside KT is surely the better boxer with more power. But inside Cotto is clearly the better man, with the tighter punches and better combinations. How would KT approach this fight knowing that he doesnt like to fight off the back foot?Yeah i was just saying that there were two diff KT styles, i prefered his amatuer style even though it was raw. He showed great handspeed, a bit more head movement and threw many more combinations.
Cotto is growing on me as a fighter. He reminds me of a young Vargas. Young, hungry and eager to step to the next level quickly to make a big name. Vargas was a good fighter, alot better than he is today.
Cotto will be a superstar.
Your right that Vargas was a very good fighter, and very ferocious. Against both Trinidad and Oscar he came so close. Had a couple of rounds gone his way and not the other, particularly the first in the trinidad fight, he might still be on top today. I think both of these fights took a lot out of him.
hahaha. Good to hear. Hopefully he doesn't get startched like Vargas when he faces the true elite though. ONly time will tell. I'll pretty drop this topic then. For the record I think at this point in time I would have to go with KT, based on his achievements. If he catches Cotto it would be goodnight on his average chin. And Cotto isn't as bad a style match up as Hatton was for KT IMO. Still would have been interesting. If Cotto beats Mosley and another top guy at welterweight, particularly a power puncher like Cintron then my opinion will probably change.If he beats Mosley i will cry.
He has a good chance of beating Mosley but we must not forget just how good Mosley is even 10 yrs Cottos snr.
Yeah i was just saying that there were two diff KT styles, i prefered his amatuer style even though it was raw. He showed great handspeed, a bit more head movement and threw many more combinations.
I prefered it as well, and I think it would have suited him better throughout his career. Early in his pro career he fought much more light footed as well. He had a very awkward style, and was a master at leaving openings and then making his opponent miss and pay. I think a lot of people miss all the great subtle things that he did in the ring. He was a great technician, IMO on the level of BHop, although their skills are very different.
If he beats Mosley i will cry.
He has a good chance of beating Mosley but we must not forget just how good Mosley is even 10 yrs Cottos snr.
Mosley is very good, although I am still not totally convinced he will ever get back to where he was before the first Forrest fight. With the right gameplan he can definitely be beaten. It will be interesting to see how both guys decide to take the fight. Whether Mosley really sticks and moves or whether he fights more flat footed and looks to land power shots. It will be a great fight.
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 12:52 AM
At 140 I'd pick Tszyu in a heatbeat, need to see more of Cotto at 147 and how he improves before I decide one way or the other.
At 140 I'd pick Tszyu in a heatbeat, need to see more of Cotto at 147 and how he improves before I decide one way or the other.
Fair call.
Breaking News>>>>>>>gunter Is A Raging Homo. Continue Thread.
Dr Gonzo
08-01-2007, 02:01 AM
gunter sucks his brother off>>> lets continue
CarltonBlues
08-01-2007, 02:17 AM
Cotto has a suspect chin, Tszyu KO 5
Marcus
08-01-2007, 02:20 AM
MSTR -if you are trying to talk to me don't bother.Ihave put you on my ignore list and Boxing Bankerx
Man WTF... why isnt Marcus on the list!! I mean i fuckin hate your guts!! you stupid Mundine ball syphoner
boxa01
08-01-2007, 02:20 AM
kstya wins..
does any1 know wat happened to muhammed abdalauev and panchito bojado not sure on spelling for both of them i seen a video of all of them as amatuers abdalauev was awesome i thought he would go all the way i thought all 3 would be the new age leonard hearns and hagler
Man WTF... why isnt Marcus on the list!! I mean i fuckin hate your guts!! you stupid Mundine ball syphoner
Just not cool enough mate. Banker and i are the two top dogs hahaha. Keep trying but you will get there one day. Tip of the day. Try to make uncalled for statements about his sexuality out of the blue in any thread that he appears in. Either that or just ridicule every post that he makes. Personally I would probably go with a combination of the two and just see how you go from there.
kstya wins..
does any1 know wat happened to muhammed abdalauev and panchito bojado not sure on spelling for both of them i seen a video of all of them as amatuers abdalauev was awesome i thought he would go all the way i thought all 3 would be the new age leonard hearns and hagler
abdalauev got SPANKED by Cotto. KO Brother. A good fighter but their olympic bout was f*cking bullshit. The scoring was way off, so it was good to see Cotto get revenge.
boxa01
08-01-2007, 02:26 AM
whoa really was it a good fight till the ko
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 02:27 AM
kstya wins..
does any1 know wat happened to muhammed abdalauev and panchito bojado not sure on spelling for both of them i seen a video of all of them as amatuers abdalauev was awesome i thought he would go all the way i thought all 3 would be the new age leonard hearns and hagler
Abdulaevs' fight with Cotto was extremely close and hard fought from what I remember, I really think genetics was the difference in the end. Abdulaev was just the sort of fighter who cut and swelled more easily, and that turned the tide of the fight as it wore on, I think Manny Steward (??) was favouring Abdulaev (he felt his better right hand would be the difference) to win the fight until that swelling became a factor. Cotto deserves a lot of credit for that win, Abdulaev was excellent.
boxa01
08-01-2007, 02:30 AM
was he knocked out or was it stopped for cuts or somethin?
i need to find this fight
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 02:35 AM
was he knocked out or was it stopped for cuts or somethin?
i need to find this fight
Abdullaev just couldn't see out of an eye so the fight wasn't really going well anymore at that point, he turned to the ref in the middle of the round and said 'no mas'. He threw his arms up and looked at the ref as if to say, 'what's the point?'
Abdulaevs' fight with Cotto was extremely close and hard fought from what I remember, I really think genetics was the difference in the end. Abdulaev was just the sort of fighter who cut and swelled more easily, and that turned the tide of the fight as it wore on, I think Manny Steward (??) was favouring Abdulaev (he felt his better right hand would be the difference) to win the fight until that swelling became a factor. Cotto deserves a lot of credit for that win, Abdulaev was excellent.
It was close but Cotto had won almost every round on the judges cards. He was landing the better harder punches and doing more damage. Abdulaev had very bad swelling, as happens to fighters that hold there gloves high and are content to take full force shots on them. Abdulaev could stil be very dangerous for anyone in the division IMO.
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 02:40 AM
It was close but Cotto had won almost every round on the judges cards. He was landing the better harder punches and doing more damage. Abdulaev had very bad swelling, as happens to fighters that hold there gloves high and are content to take full force shots on them. Abdulaev could stil be very dangerous for anyone in the division IMO.
I think it's more a matter of genetics, Winky has a very similar guard and takes big shots on it, but he doesn't swell up anywhere near as badly. I'd have to look at the fight again but I recall giving a few rounds to Abdullaev in there somewhere.
I think it's more a matter of genetics, Winky has a very similar guard and takes big shots on it, but he doesn't swell up anywhere near as badly. I'd have to look at the fight again but I recall giving a few rounds to Abdullaev in there somewhere.
I had Cotto winning pretty much every round. The judges cards had it 79-73 for Cotto in the ninth round, so he must have won a couple but Cotto had a decent lead. I think Winky has taken damage before. Against Soliman his head was swollen and Soliman isn't close to being the puncher that Cotto is.
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 02:50 AM
I had Cotto winning pretty much every round. The judges cards had it 79-73 for Cotto in the ninth round, so he must have won a couple but Cotto had a decent lead. I think Winky has taken damage before. Against Soliman his head was swollen and Soliman isn't close to being the puncher that Cotto is.
There's a difference between swelling (which most fighters get), and swelling that starts to obscure your vision. Abdullaev has those higher cheekbones, so it's just a fact of life in the pro ranks that didn't matter in the ams.
I remember thinking the judges were a little off with their cards, and we both know that happens often in this sport (Demetrius Hopkins immediately comes to mind). I remember a very tight fight, where Cotto came on past the mid rounds due to Abdullaevs' swelling. Boxa01 will hopefully get a hold of the fight so we can get a third opinion :yep
Thriller
08-01-2007, 03:01 AM
cotto's chin wouldent hold up to KT power full stop.
cotto's chin wouldent hold up to KT power full stop.
Neither would Ricky Hattons before there fight either and we all know what happened there. Cotto can negate his power by closing the distance which I am sure he would attempt to do.
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 03:08 AM
Neither would Ricky Hattons before there fight either and we all know what happened there. Cotto can negate his power by closing the distance which I am sure he would attempt to do.
I don't think Tszyus' straight right was all that after the ankle surgery, he looked good against Mitchell, but Mitchell was stopped by both Williams and Floyd afterwards, so there are some question marks (that's also all we saw of him for 3 years). Tszyu's punch and legs were stronger in his prime, the Hatton fight isn't really a great measuring stick for that.
We should be talking about Tszyus' best performances if we're matching him up with the best Cotto, not his worst.
BoppaZoo
08-01-2007, 03:53 AM
I don't think Tszyus' straight right was all that after the ankle surgery, he looked good against Mitchell, but Mitchell was stopped by both Williams and Floyd afterwards, so there are some question marks (that's also all we saw of him for 3 years). Tszyu's punch and legs were stronger in his prime, the Hatton fight isn't really a great measuring stick for that.
We should be talking about Tszyus' best performances if we're matching him up with the best Cotto, not his worst.any version of Kostya between 1999 and 2002 beats Cotto.
i mean we saw Judah who hasnt got Tszyu's power or speed rock Cotto twice.
you think a Prime Tszyu would let Cotto off if he rocked him. Tszyu would finish Cotto off quickly.
As for Cotto's chance well all im going to say is Cotto wouldnt have known that was Tszyu's weakness (closing the distance down so it takes away his power), hell noone knew this was the best way to beat Tszyu until after the Hatton fight.
Cotto's to dumb and would play into Tszyu's hands. im not taking anything away from Cotto he is a huge talent but with a chin like that against a man like Tszyu.
Tszyu TKO 7
thats the way i see it sorry MSTR.
I don't think Tszyus' straight right was all that after the ankle surgery, he looked good against Mitchell, but Mitchell was stopped by both Williams and Floyd afterwards, so there are some question marks (that's also all we saw of him for 3 years). Tszyu's punch and legs were stronger in his prime, the Hatton fight isn't really a great measuring stick for that.
We should be talking about Tszyus' best performances if we're matching him up with the best Cotto, not his worst.
I said prime KT no problem there. Just saying KT needed room to get power on that right hand. He liked to throw it coming forward, it wasn't the same punch on the counter. I am sure thats what Miguel would like to do. Whether it would work or not is an entirely different story.
any version of Kostya between 1999 and 2002 beats Cotto.
i mean we saw Judah who hasnt got Tszyu's power or speed rock Cotto twice.
you think a Prime Tszyu would let Cotto off if he rocked him. Tszyu would finish Cotto off quickly.
As for Cotto's chance well all im going to say is Cotto wouldnt have known that was Tszyu's weakness (closing the distance down so it takes away his power), hell noone knew this was the best way to beat Tszyu until after the Hatton fight.
Cotto's to dumb and would play into Tszyu's hands. im not taking anything away from Cotto he is a huge talent but with a chin like that against a man like Tszyu.
Tszyu TKO 7
thats the way i see it sorry MSTR.
Fair call mate. But a couple of points for consideration.
Judah has more speed then KT, and is also has very good power off one punch. Not KT power but good power still. Watch the Rivera fight for reference. Judah had him on his arse about 4 times, and now like 4 years later a supposed great prospect like Berto can't even finish him.
Cotto naturally fights in close and backs his opponents up, so I couldn't imagine him trying to box KT regardless. I think style wise he would give KT more trouble then most.
However, I think KT was very cagey, and that Cotto's chin still has a question mark. I can see that right hand landing and if it could very easily KO Cotto.
At this stage I would go with KT also, but if Cotto can beat Mosley and another puncher in the divison without getting Knocked Down, my opinion will almost certainly change.
BoppaZoo
08-01-2007, 04:08 AM
Fair call mate. But a couple of points for consideration.
Judah has more speed then KT, and is also has very good power off one punch. Not KT power but good power still. Watch the Rivera fight for reference. Judah had him on his arse about 4 times, and now like 4 years later a supposed great prospect like Berto can't even finish him.
Cotto naturally fights in close and backs his opponents up, so I couldn't imagine him trying to box KT regardless. I think style wise he would give KT more trouble then most.
However, I think KT was very cagey, and that Cotto's chin still has a question mark. I can see that right hand landing and if it could very easily KO Cotto.
At this stage I would go with KT also, but if Cotto can beat Mosley and another puncher in the divison without getting Knocked Down, my opinion will almost certainly change.
Mine mind wont change.
you ask why is because lets be honest here Cotto is better fighter at 147. and Mosley is well old.
but if this fight had of taking place it would have been at 140. so that means Cotto's Power and his tactics just wouldnt have been enough to get over the line.
Its not Cotto's skill or even his power. Its that poor defense he has and that average chin. the reason Hatton beat Tszyu was partly because of his style but i feel also is because he had a better chin than most people thought.
that type of chin against Tszyu spells one thing Trouble.
just ask Zab Judah.
Box-on
08-01-2007, 04:25 AM
I like both of these guys and not just because they stopped Judah, although that is a good enough reason..Prime Tszyu with his power and accuracy would stop Cotto imo. Iv'e seen several Cotto fights and he can be rocked by lesser punches than Tszyu. And for what it's worth Hatton did not face a prime Tszyu.
Mine mind wont change.
you ask why is because lets be honest here Cotto is better fighter at 147. and Mosley is well old.
but if this fight had of taking place it would have been at 140. so that means Cotto's Power and his tactics just wouldnt have been enough to get over the line.
Its not Cotto's skill or even his power. Its that poor defense he has and that average chin. the reason Hatton beat Tszyu was partly because of his style but i feel also is because he had a better chin than most people thought.
that type of chin against Tszyu spells one thing Trouble.
just ask Zab Judah.
Cotto doesn't have poor defense he is just an active fighter which naturally leaves him open to being hit more. I actually think he has good defense. Great head movement, keeps his guard very high. When your a body puncher your always going to run the risk of getting cleaned up to the head whilst getting your shots off.
I was talking about the Cotto of now who fights at 147. I didn't specifiy but I was thinking of KT coming up to 147, and having the bout there. I think KT could hold the weight quite easily.
If Cotto can hold off against a couple decent punchers he will have proved to me that his chin although not great, isn't weak either.
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 05:18 AM
I said prime KT no problem there. Just saying KT needed room to get power on that right hand. He liked to throw it coming forward, it wasn't the same punch on the counter. I am sure thats what Miguel would like to do. Whether it would work or not is an entirely different story.
That's one of the reasons I was referring to Tszyus legs in my last post, Kostya always had a good set of legs to generate space when he needed it. Even against fighters that would constantly push forward (e.g, Tacky), Tszyu didn't have a problem generating space so he could put something more behind those right hands.
Another thing about the Hatton fight was that Tszyu was looking more towards the left hook to beat Hatton, so there wasn't as much emphasis on generating room for his right hand.
BoppaZoo
08-01-2007, 05:27 AM
Cotto doesn't have poor defense he is just an active fighter which naturally leaves him open to being hit more. I actually think he has good defense. Great head movement, keeps his guard very high. When your a body puncher your always going to run the risk of getting cleaned up to the head whilst getting your shots off.
I was talking about the Cotto of now who fights at 147. I didn't specifiy but I was thinking of KT coming up to 147, and having the bout there. I think KT could hold the weight quite easily.
If Cotto can hold off against a couple decent punchers he will have proved to me that his chin although not great, isn't weak either.like ive said at 140 it isnt even close.
Tszyu TKO 7
but at 147 its a different fight.
it would be a close fight that could go either way. all i will say though if Tszyu hurts Cotto just once its over. thats at either 140 or 147 because unlike Judah Tszyu could finish with a devastating style.
but at 147 its harder for Tszyu the longer the fight goes. but its all speculation i mean if i had to say though Prime for Prime.
2007 Cotto vs a 2001 Tszyu. i have to go with Tszyu only because of one reason Cotto seems to get hurt by everybody. and if Tszyu hurts you in a fight its over. no matter at 140 or 147.
but if Cotto had of faced Tszyu before Hatton got to him who knows how the fight would have went. its all speculation. Cotto is good but lets be honest here he has more weakness's than Tszyu has and that hurts him in a matchup.
Tszyu TKO 7 at 140
Tszyu by TKO at 147 if he catch's Cotto or hurts him.
Cotto UD at 147 if the fight goes the distance though.
thats what i think.
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 05:31 AM
any version of Kostya between 1999 and 2002 beats Cotto.
i mean we saw Judah who hasnt got Tszyu's power or speed rock Cotto twice.
you think a Prime Tszyu would let Cotto off if he rocked him. Tszyu would finish Cotto off quickly.
As for Cotto's chance well all im going to say is Cotto wouldnt have known that was Tszyu's weakness (closing the distance down so it takes away his power), hell noone knew this was the best way to beat Tszyu until after the Hatton fight.
Cotto's to dumb and would play into Tszyu's hands. im not taking anything away from Cotto he is a huge talent but with a chin like that against a man like Tszyu.
Tszyu TKO 7
thats the way i see it sorry MSTR.
I'd like to see how well Cotto takes a shot to the body at 147 first though, I think people favouring Cotto think his body punching would eventually break down Tszyu at the higher weight, but Tszyus' left hook to the body is more devastating and explosive than any single body punch in Cottos arsenal.
I'd like to see how well Cotto takes a shot to the body at 147 first though, I think people favouring Cotto think his body punching would eventually break down Tszyu at the higher weight, but Tszyus' left hook to the body is more devastating and explosive than any single body punch in Cottos arsenal.
I think KT's right hand is harder and more explosive in KT's arsenal, but Cotto has the harder body punchers. He has shorter arms, tighter punches and gets more leverage. He is also naturally a leftie so his left hook and left to the body are the hardest punches he throws. Cotto definitely throws the harder body shots IMO.
Dekkers
08-01-2007, 05:53 AM
I think KT's right hand is harder and more explosive in KT's arsenal, but Cotto has the harder body punchers. He has shorter arms, tighter punches and gets more leverage. He is also naturally a leftie so his left hook and left to the body are the hardest punches he throws. Cotto definitely throws the harder body shots IMO.
In general yes, but not the left hook to the body, no way. The Hurtado fight is one example that springs to mind.
Also their arms are about the same length, I wouldn't say the leverage he gets on the left hook is better, nor is it really a tighter punch.
Mosley is a great body puncher and will def test Cottos ability to take punches downstairs.
WhataRock
08-01-2007, 11:51 PM
Mosley is a great body puncher and will def test Cottos ability to take punches downstairs.
Quitana gave Cotto a thing or two to think about with some long lefts to the belly. Thing is Carlos couldnt take it to the body as well as he could dish it out.
Mosley isnt the body puncher he was though. Back in the day his combos to the gut were terrifying, but now he has slowed slightly and isnt the same beast mentally. More one shot at a time now.
Quitana gave Cotto a thing or two to think about with some long lefts to the belly. Thing is Carlos couldnt take it to the body as well as he could dish it out.
Mosley isnt the body puncher he was though. Back in the day his combos to the gut were terrifying, but now he has slowed slightly and isnt the same beast mentally. More one shot at a time now.
I agree. I am actually more worried about the counter right hand of Mosley to be honest.
WhataRock
08-01-2007, 11:57 PM
That choppy one he bring over the top sometimes aye?? Very quick, usually pretty powerful.
Thats definitely a punch I see Miguel eating several timeswhen they fight.
That choppy one he bring over the top sometimes aye?? Very quick, usually pretty powerful.
Thats definitely a punch I see Miguel eating several timeswhen they fight.
Thats the one. The same punch that caught Oscar so many times. I expect him to loop it and try to throw it over the top of Cotto's high guard.
Thats the one. The same punch that caught Oscar so many times. I expect him to loop it and try to throw it over the top of Cotto's high guard.That's the baby Im counting on owning you with Mstr :yep:yep
Mosleys booming loop de loop right hand straight on Cottos temple :yep:yep
In general yes, but not the left hook to the body, no way. The Hurtado fight is one example that springs to mind.
Also their arms are about the same length, I wouldn't say the leverage he gets on the left hook is better, nor is it really a tighter punch.
I can't see this arguement getting anywhere but I heavily disagree. Cottos best punch is his left hook to the body. He is a shorter fighter, and throws tighter punches. Kostya being a European fighter likes more range to be effective. The body shot against Hurtardo was good, but watch any Cotto fight and you will see numerous great hooks to the body. Plus being that his left hand is his strongest, and the fact that he naturally fights in close quarters, he puts his whole body into the punch to deliver maximum power. No way Kostya has a better left hook to the body then Cotto.
That's the baby Im counting on owning you with Mstr :yep:yep
Mosleys booming loop de loop right hand straight on Cottos temple :yep:yep
Good luck. Hope you enjoy your avatar.
WhataRock
08-02-2007, 12:46 AM
Kostya has never been a dedicated body puncher.
The Johnson and Hurtado fights he used it well in more out of neccessity. Maybe not neccessity but it was opportunistic, the opportunity to go to body was to much to give away.
Cotto goes there not matter who he is against or what style they have. It just the frequency and punch choice that differs from fighter to fighter.
To be honest comparing Tsyzu body left hook to Cotto's is like comparing Cotto's right hand to Tszyu's. Both do it well but one does it better.
Kostya has never been a dedicated body puncher.
The Johnson and Hurtado fights he used it well in more out of neccessity. Maybe not neccessity but it was opportunistic, the opportunity to go to body was to much to give away.
Cotto goes there not matter who he is against or what style they have. It just the frequency and punch choice that differs from fighter to fighter.
To be honest comparing Tsyzu body left hook to Cotto's is like comparing Cotto's right hand to Tszyu's. Both do it well but one does it better.
Great post. Couldn't have said it better.
ipswich express
08-02-2007, 01:32 AM
At this stage I'd pick Tszyu by knockout. It's a shame but his loss to Hatton appears to have diminished his standing somewhat, which is ridiculous IMO. He was well past his best and still put up a huge battle.
At this stage I'd pick Tszyu by knockout. It's a shame but his loss to Hatton appears to have diminished his standing somewhat, which is ridiculous IMO. He was well past his best and still put up a huge battle.
I wouldn't say his standing is diminished. Cotto at 147 has looked very strong. he has already beaten Judah who is arguably the best name on KT's resume, and if he beats Mosley then he will have defeated a fighter better then anyone else on KT's resume. Cotto is still unproven which is why I picked KT as well, but if Cotto can beat a couple more of boxings top guys at 147, surely a case can be made that he could beat Kostya. Not a knock on Kostya, more just a wrap on Cotto. Kostya is a great fighter but I think the Phillips loss took much more away from him then the hatton bout. He just fought the wrong fight against Hatton and let his ego get in the way. I have no doubt he could have beaten hatton if he had fought a smarter fight.
At this stage I'd pick Tszyu by knockout. It's a shame but his loss to Hatton appears to have diminished his standing somewhat, which is ridiculous IMO. He was well past his best and still put up a huge battle.
What hurts Kostya is the fact that overall his competition wasn't outstanding compared to other ATG fighters and that is what his detractors point out time and time again. I prefer to look at the way he beat people. Particularly for me, the way he bashed Gonzalez was extremely impressive, as was his second win over mitchell and the win over a young and undefeated Zab Judah. Earlier in his career he beat a lot of name fighters, but for the most past they were well past there best. Particularly in the case of Chavez. Regardless the way he beat them was very impressive. If Kostya had faced Mayweather instead of hatton and pulled off a victory, he would without a doubt be the greatest 140lb fighter of all time.
Dekkers
08-02-2007, 02:01 AM
Kostya has never been a dedicated body puncher.
The Johnson and Hurtado fights he used it well in more out of neccessity. Maybe not neccessity but it was opportunistic, the opportunity to go to body was to much to give away.
Cotto goes there not matter who he is against or what style they have. It just the frequency and punch choice that differs from fighter to fighter.
To be honest comparing Tsyzu body left hook to Cotto's is like comparing Cotto's right hand to Tszyu's. Both do it well but one does it better.
Whether or not Tszyu is as dedicated a body puncher as Cotto doesn't really impact on the effect of Tszyu's left hook :hey:D. Another fight where Tszyu used the body hook to great effect was the rematch with Mitchell, where Sharmba went down off a left body hook.
Tszyu is generally a more explosive puncher than Cotto, with faster hands, and that tranlsates into greater power in most punches. Cotto has that more traditional left hook, thrown from further in, getting a lower centre of gravity with head movement rather than Tszyu who throws it from further outside (I think in general fighters who push inside are more dedicated body punchers).
When Tszyu throws the left hook the kinetic chain isn't so much going left to right, pushing off and turning with the left front foot (more textbook left hook to the body). The line of momentum from the push off at the legs is definitely straighter (further back so logical), there was a bit of variety to it as well... often the line of the punch would have the slight element of an uppercut to it (like a mix between a more traditional left hook and a smash), that sort of arc in a punch tends to drive in from beneath the ribs and the forward momentum gives it a lot of driving force.
Looks as though MSTR and I are worlds apart on this one, even though I believe Cotto to certainly be a better all round body puncher with a left hook that's more orthodox but imo still very but, less damaging.
P.S. Have we ever actually agreed on anything besides Gunter MSTR? :yep
Hopkins, Wright, Tszyu, Cotto, Abraham, Taylor, Mundine, we disagree on absobloodyloutely everything... except Gunter.
ipswich express
08-02-2007, 02:05 AM
If this match up was taking part at 140lbs, the edge certainly is with KT. One of the ATG at that weight, no question.
Whether or not Tszyu is as dedicated a body puncher as Cotto doesn't really impact on the effect of Tszyu's left hook :hey:D. Another fight where Tszyu used the body hook to great effect was the rematch with Mitchell, where Sharmba went down off a left body hook.
Tszyu is generally a more explosive puncher than Cotto, with faster hands, and that tranlsates into greater power in most punches. Cotto has that more traditional left hook, thrown from further in, getting a lower centre of gravity with head movement rather than Tszyu who throws it from further outside (I think in general fighters who push inside are more dedicated body punchers).
When Tszyu throws the left hook the kinetic chain isn't so much going left to right, pushing off and turning with the left front foot (more textbook left hook to the body). The line of momentum from the push off at the legs is definitely straighter (further back so logical), there was a bit of variety to it as well... often the line of the punch would have the slight element of an uppercut to it (like a mix between a more traditional left hook and a smash), that sort of arc in a punch tends to drive in from beneath the ribs and the forward momentum gives it a lot of driving force.
Looks as though MSTR and I are worlds apart on this one, even though I believe Cotto to certainly be a better all round body puncher with a left hook that's more orthodox but imo still very but, less damaging.
P.S. Have we ever actually agreed on anything besides Gunter MSTR? :yep
Hopkins, Wright, Tszyu, Cotto, Abraham, Taylor, Mundine, we disagree on absobloodyloutely everything... except Gunter.
At least we finally found some common ground. Who said he was good for nothing.
If this match up was taking part at 140lbs, the edge certainly is with KT. One of the ATG at that weight, no question.
Absolutely right. I was thinking at 147, although I didn't really specify that in the first part of the thread. Cotto was green and also weight drained at 140. He looks huge at 147, I find it hard to believe he could ever make 140.
Super_Fly_Sam
08-02-2007, 08:43 AM
Yeah i was just saying that there were two diff KT styles, i prefered his amatuer style even though it was raw. He showed great handspeed, a bit more head movement and threw many more combinations.
Got Any Footage Of Kostya As An Amatuer???
Got Any Footage Of Kostya As An Amatuer???I got a few fights, nothing spectacular. He had fast hands which really surprised me.
Got Any Footage Of Kostya As An Amatuer???
His amatuer fight vs Vernon Forrest is a good one.
BoppaZoo
08-03-2007, 04:33 AM
Got Any Footage Of Kostya As An Amatuer???go to youtube write in Kostya Tszyu vs Vernon Forrest.
Tszyu beat the piss out of Forrest 32-9.
go to youtube write in Kostya Tszyu vs Vernon Forrest.
Tszyu beat the piss out of Forrest 32-9.I have that fight and i wouldnt say he beat the piss out of him. Vernon landed alot of good shots. It would have been good to see them fight against each other in the pros over more rounds
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