Bernard 'The Executioner' Hopkins vs 'Hands Of Stone' Roberto Duran

[r_9-Ronaldo]

How would this one pan out as I've been thinking about it alot recent and it would really be a great fight, Hopkins savvy and ring generalship, Durans unpredictabillity etc.

[Loewe]

We had this already use the search. Most thought Hopkins would win clearly.

[mcvey]

How would this one pan out as I've been thinking about it alot recent and it would really be a great fight, Hopkins savvy and ring generalship, Durans unpredictabillity etc.
Hopkins does a Hagler here ,but more emphatically.No sweat.

[the cobra]

Duran's my all-time favorite, but he struggles to win even a few rounds here. Hopkins is the kind of fighter that P4P would give a good deal of problems to Duran, H2H in literal sense is a little bit of a mismatch IMO. Hopkins wide UD.

[Robbi]

Hopkins on points. Everyone would agree that Hagler-Duran wasn't as close as the scorecards suggested after 15 rounds. IMO Hopkins is better at the cagey tactical approach than Hagler. This fight is a bridge too far for Duran. I'm not sure he'd do as well against Hopkins at long range as he did with Hagler. When Duran dropped inside against Hagler he never liked it physical. He struggled up close. Hopkins is very good inside fighter as well. And lets be honest, Duran isn't getting the better of Hopkins at long range. Not a chance.

Duran could well be competitive during periods of this fight, but thats as good as it gets for him. He'd find Hopkins too strong in all areas. His knowledge and good defense would prevent it being a one sided affair for the full duration.

I feel that Hopkins is almost Hagler and Hearns combined in many aspects. Hearns like height, reach, movement, with Hagler's chin, durablity, and toughness inside.

[mcvey]

Hopkins on points. Everyone would agree that Hagler-Duran wasn't as close as the scorecards suggested after 15 rounds. IMO Hopkins is better at the cagey tactical approach than Hagler. This fight is a bridge too far for Duran. I'm not sure he'd do as well against Hopkins at long range as he did with Hagler. When Duran dropped inside against Hagler he never liked it physical. He struggled up close. Hopkins is very good inside fighter as well. And lets be honest, Duran isn't getting the better of Hopkins at long range. Not a chance.

Duran could well be competitive during periods of this fight, but thats as good as it gets for him. He'd find Hopkins too strong in all areas. His knowledge and good defense would prevent it being a one sided affair for the full duration.

I feel that Hopkins is almost Hagler and Hearns combined in many aspects. Hearns like height, reach, movement, with Hagler's chin, durablity, and toughness inside.
I agree ,but it is a tribute to the Panamanian ,that we even consider these fights imo.

[CottoDaBodykill]

duran wouldn't have the same kinda night agianst hagler as he would with hopkins...they're two diff fighters..i think hopkins does a bigger beat down due to his complexing style

[Sweet Pea]

duran wouldn't have the same kinda night agianst hagler as he would with hopkins...they're two diff fighters..i think hopkins does a bigger beat down due to his complexing styleNah, not a beatdown by any means. Hopkins was great against smaller fighters, but rarely ever delivered beatings so much as boxing exhibitions. Not sure why, he could've taken De La Hoya out in more impression fashion than he did, at least in his prime he would've. But Hopkins would definitely win the fight at MW.

But let's make it clear to the threadstarter that we're talking a natural LW vs a large MW here, so it's not exactly an even matchup. Still, at his best Duran had the skills to make it competitive.

[kickbxn5]

BHop on points. Duran's best days were at 135

[radianttwilight]

B-hop via schooling.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by radianttwilight
B-hop via schooling.
It would not have been a schooling. One-sided on the cards yes, but it would be competitive throughout.

No one is going to "school" someone like Duran, even a middleweight duran.

[CottoDaBodykill]

Nah, not a beatdown by any means. Hopkins was great against smaller fighters, but rarely ever delivered beatings so much as boxing exhibitions. Not sure why, he could've taken De La Hoya out in more impression fashion than he did, at least in his prime he would've. But Hopkins would definitely win the fight at MW.

But let's make it clear to the threadstarter that we're talking a natural LW vs a large MW here, so it's not exactly an even matchup. Still, at his best Duran had the skills to make it competitive.i ment a beat down with his skills ..sorta like he did trinidad ..you know? ..kinda like how you said it .. with the boxing exhbitions .. he'd prolly do that to duran .. due to the size difference

[the cobra]

Duran was far more skilled than Trinidad. Not as dangerous and would not be constantly aggressive like Trinidad, but he was clearly more skilled.

[CottoDaBodykill]

by a landslide then some

[Robbi]

Duran IMO would only be competitive against Hopkins for only brief periods. Hopkins isn't techincally crude like Barkley and he's also a lot smarter tactically. Many people had Hagler beating Duran handily over 15 rounds. If Duran stood off cautiously like he did with Hagler he'd get dominated. And if he forced the fight 'all guns blazing' he still gets picked apart. Either way he gets beaten rather easily.

[the cobra]

Originally posted by Robbi
Duran IMO would only be competitive against Hopkins for only brief periods. Hopkins isn't techincally crude like Barkley and he's also a lot smarter tactically. Many people had Hagler beating Duran handily over 15 rounds. If Duran stood off cautiously like he did with Hagler he'd get dominated. And if he forced the fight 'all guns blazing' he still gets picked apart. Either way he gets beaten rather easily.
Yes, but (if you were reffering to my post) he would not be completelly outclassed like Trinidad. He'd struggle to win even a few rounds, but I don't see him being thoroughly outclassed by Hopkins.

[Mantequilla]

As an aside, i do think stylistically Duran could edge Toney at this weight if he fought like he did against Hagler.

That would be much better matchup for him than anyone with a good set of legs.

[Sweet Pea]

As an aside, i do think stylistically Duran could edge Toney at this weight if he fought like he did against Hagler.

That would be much better matchup for him than anyone with a good set of legs.Agreed 100%.

[Robbi]

As an aside, i do think stylistically Duran could edge Toney at this weight if he fought like he did against Hagler..

You think Duran beats Toney at long range?. While Toney did like to fight up close, his long range work gets overlooked. He worked pretty well at long range against McCallum in their first fight. McCallum used his jab often against Toney, the same can't be said about Duran against Hagler. He was throwing it sparingly with no much behind it. His right hand lead was his dangerous weapon against Hagler.

I think the Duran who fought Barkley would be the one to match against Toney. He was busier and mixed it up inside and outside.

[Mantequilla]

I think Toney probably edges the fight if he's on McCallum one form.A lot of his other performances like the rematch, or Johnson fight might not be good enough.

BEst on best fantasy fight i'd bet on Toney, but if they had been around at the same time i wouldn't have been surprised if Duran could have upset him.

[Sweet Pea]

You think Duran beats Toney at long range?. While Toney did like to fight up close, his long range work gets overlooked. He worked pretty well at long range against McCallum in their first fight. McCallum used his jab often against Toney, the same can't be said about Duran against Hagler. He was throwing it sparingly with no much behind it. His right hand lead was his dangerous weapon against Hagler.

I think the Duran who fought Barkley would be the one to match against Toney. He was busier and mixed it up inside and outside.The Duran who faced Hagler was no doubt the better version overall. Younger, better shape, quicker, etc. He was definitely capable of implying a different style, and a more versatile one, on a less efficient fighter like Toney. He tailored his gameplan to suit his best interests against Hagler, against Toney he'd have done the same. I do think he'd have been able to fight on even terms with Toney from any range though.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I think a bunch of people on this forum forgets that styles makes fights. I didn't see any difference in Duran when he fought Leonard the first time or the second time. Same with the Duran that fought Hagler. Both Leonard and Hagler made both of these fights hard for them, so i really don't know why people say that ''Montreal Duran was such a monster''. Look at what happened in the rematch which was only five months later, he beat Duran because he used his ability and boxed. I know that a bunch a fan boys are going to say that'' oh he was out of shape and over the hill by that point'' and of course I'll laugh, because it was only months later. Be serious. That's like saying Jones was shot when he fought Tarver the second time, even though he beat Tarver the first time. Hagler tried to box with Duran instead of bringing the pressure early the way he did with Hearns so he too made the fight difficult.

For the topic, Hopkins would use his natural size advantages to out muscle Duran by a reasonably close decision. Hes simply too big.

[Loewe]

Nah, not a beatdown by any means. Hopkins was great against smaller fighters, but rarely ever delivered beatings so much as boxing exhibitions. Not sure why, he could've taken De La Hoya out in more impression fashion than he did, at least in his prime he would've. But Hopkins would definitely win the fight at MW.

But let's make it clear to the threadstarter that we're talking a natural LW vs a large MW here, so it's not exactly an even matchup. Still, at his best Duran had the skills to make it competitive.

Competative for a few rounds, yes, but he´s just not big enough to have a real chance in here. Against DLH he wanted to prove he can beat him without using his size advantage. It worked but not as good as he thought it would.

[Loewe]

I think a bunch of people on this forum forgets that styles makes fights. I didn't see any difference in Duran when he fought Leonard the first time or the second time. Same with the Duran that fought Hagler. Both Leonard and Hagler made both of these fights hard for them, so i really don't know why people say that ''Montreal Duran was such a monster''. Look at what happened in the rematch which was only five months later, he beat Duran because he used his ability and boxed. I know that a bunch a fan boys are going to say that'' oh he was out of shape and over the hill by that point'' and of course I'll laugh, because it was only months later. Be serious. That's like saying Jones was shot when he fought Tarver the second time, even though he beat Tarver the first time. Hagler tried to box with Duran instead of bringing the pressure early the way he did with Hearns so he too made the fight difficult.

For the topic, Hopkins would use his natural size advantages to out muscle Duran by a reasonably close decision. Hes simply too big.

No difference between Montreal and New Orleans Duran? wtf? Duran was in absolutly peak shape mentally and physically in Montreal but was far from it in New Orleans. That´s so obvious I just don´t get how anybody can´t see that.

[Sweet Pea]

I think a bunch of people on this forum forgets that styles makes fights. I didn't see any difference in Duran when he fought Leonard the first time or the second time. Same with the Duran that fought Hagler. Both Leonard and Hagler made both of these fights hard for them, so i really don't know why people say that ''Montreal Duran was such a monster''. Look at what happened in the rematch which was only five months later, he beat Duran because he used his ability and boxed. I know that a bunch a fan boys are going to say that'' oh he was out of shape and over the hill by that point'' and of course I'll laugh, because it was only months later. Be serious. That's like saying Jones was shot when he fought Tarver the second time, even though he beat Tarver the first time. Just stop. Seriously.

[slicksouthpaw16]

No difference between Montreal and New Orleans Duran? wtf? Duran was in absolutly peak shape mentally and physically in Montreal but was far from it in New Orleans. That´s so obvious I just don´t get how anybody can´t see that.
No difference at all. You could not convince me that FIVE months would make any difference at all. He is a professional that was not only entering the second biggest fight of his life but was still in his prime years. I seen the same Duran, it was Leonard that made his tactical adjustments the second time out, not what Duran did, and what convinces me is that the rematch was actually somewhat close. Do you really think that Leonard would have fought to a close fight with an out of shape Duran? I just don't buy into it. Fans come up with this stuff to make Duran not look bad and to take away what Leonard did. I think Ray had a lot to do with Duran looking sluggish.

Duran is great and there is no question about it, but i am just not going to believe that a guy who beat a peaking Ray Leonard five months prior is all of a sudden out of shape and over the hill. Its complete BS. Ray boxed, utilized his jab and controlled space this time, instead of being frustrated and banging with Duran, which was mainly due to him getting to his head and ripping on his family.

[Loewe]

No difference at all. You could not convince me that FIVE months would make any difference at all. He is a professional that was not only entering the second biggest fight of his life but was still in his prime years. I seen the same Duran, it was Leonard that made his tactical adjustments the second time out, not what Duran did, and what convinces me is that the rematch was actually somewhat close. Do you really think that Leonard would have fought to a close fight with an out of shape Duran? I just don't buy into it. Fans come up with this stuff to make Duran not look bad and to take away what Leonard did. I think Ray had a lot to do with Duran looking sluggish.

Duran is great and there is no question about it, but i am just not going to believe that a guy who beat a peaking Ray Leonard five months prior is all of a sudden out of shape and over the hill. Its complete BS. Ray boxed, utilized his jab and controlled space this time, instead of being frustrated and banging with Duran, which was mainly due to him getting to his head and ripping on his family.

You also believe in Santa, right?

[slicksouthpaw16]

You also believe in Santa, right?
Of course YOU believe in Santa, especially if you seriously think that Duran was all of a sudden out of shape and ''mentally not prepared'' when he fought Leonard in the rematch. You should really watch BOTH fighters when analyzing a fight. Only watching one won't do you any good. I seen Leonard box beautifully the second time and his foot work seemed better as well.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Double post

[Loewe]

Of course YOU believe in Santa, especially if you seriously think that Duran was all of a sudden out of shape and ''mentally not prepared'' when he fought Leonard in the rematch. You should really watch BOTH fighters when analyzing a fight. Only watching one won't do you any good. I seen Leonard box beautifully the second time and his foot work seemed better as well.
You should learn more about Duran than you would know that you are so so so wrong. He was known to totally blow up between fights and Leonard himself admitted that he knew that and that´s why they made the rematch as fast as possible because they knew Duran would not be in shape then. That´s common knowledge.

[mcvey]

Just stop. Seriously.
What do they say? "You can lead a fool to the truth but you can't make him think".Something like that.

[slicksouthpaw16]

You should learn more about Duran than you would know that you are so so so wrong. He was known to totally blow up between fights and Leonard himself admitted that he knew that and that´s why they made the rematch as fast as possible because they knew Duran would not be in shape then. That´s common knowledge.
Of course he was known for blowing up between fights, so why all of a sudden he is not the same fighter he was when Leonard beat him/made him quit? That's just so bogus. He was also big when he fought Iran Barkely at middleweight, did he not win? My uncle also has his autobiography and i have read it twice. I have my knowledge about him, i think you should worry about revisiting Leonard and the tactical mistakes that he corrected.

[slicksouthpaw16]

What do they say? "You can lead a fool to the truth but you can't make him think".Something like that.
:lol: You are begging to be on my ignore. First you challenge me for proof in that Jack Johnson thread, and when i give you the proof you completely ignore it and say that '' anyone writes articles''. Then you challenge me again and tell me to come up with more proof, then i accept it and you don't even respond to the post. Now, you call me a fool for stating MY opinion.

[Loewe]

:lol: You are begging to be on my ignore. First you challenge me for proof in that Jack Johnson thread, and when i give you the proof you completely ignore it and say that '' anyone writes articles''. Then you challenge me again and tell me to come up with more proof, then i accept it and you don't even respond to the post. Now, you call me a fool for stating MY opinion.

Well, when he´s right he´s right.

I´ll stop now discussing with you. There´s a saying here in Germany that fits right well. Don´t argue with an idiot, he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Well, when he´s right he´s right.

I´ll stop now discussing with you. There´s a saying here in Germany that fits right well. Don´t argue with an idiot, he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Great, because what you have shown and proven to me is that you don't have any facts or knowledge about this topic, so instead you just say I'm wrong instead of backing it up with anything and proving your point. Facts are facts. Duran was the same fighter he was in the first fight, and there is no way that you could seriously say that he was all of a sudden out shape five months removed from the biggest win of his career, and if anything it should have motivated him to follow through with it and beat Leonard again. Give Leonard his due. If people say that Ray only beat him because he was out of shape, then the Leonard fans could say that the only reason he beat Leonard was because Duran got to his head and forced him to fight fire with fire and give up all of his advantages.

[Loewe]

Great, because what you have shown and proven to me is that you don't have any facts or knowledge about this topic, so instead you just say I'm wrong instead of backing it up with anything and proving your point. Facts are facts. Duran was the same fighter he was in the first fight, and there is no way that you could seriously say that he was all of a sudden out shape five months removed from the biggest win of his career, and if anything it should have motivated him to follow through with it and beat Leonard again. Give Leonard his due. If people say that Ray only beat him because he was out of shape, then the Leonard fans could say that the only reason he beat Leonard was because Duran got to his head and forced him to fight fire with fire and give up all of his advantages.

Well, it´s more about you ignoring anything I wrote than everything else but hey, keep on living in your little dream world :good

[Sweet Pea]

I don't think Slicksouthpaw has ever posted in a thread where he hasn't made a complete ass of himself.

[PowerPuncher]

As an aside, i do think stylistically Duran could edge Toney at this weight if he fought like he did against Hagler.

That would be much better matchup for him than anyone with a good set of legs.

Or he could get widely outboxed like Benitez did but worse. Toney is a worse match up than Hagler for Duran as hes harder to hit while having similar size and power

Also look at the difference in the performance against Barkley

[Robbi]

Or he could get widely outboxed like Benitez did but worse. Toney is a worse match up than Hagler for Duran as hes harder to hit while having similar size and power

Also look at the difference in the performance against Barkley

Benitez was at jr middleweight and Toney fought Barkley at super-middleweight. Both discounted to a certain degree.

We are talking about Duran at middleweight.

[PowerPuncher]

Benitez was at jr middleweight and Toney fought Barkley at super-middleweight. Both discounted to a certain degree.

We are talking about Duran at middleweight.

We are talking about styles and performances against similar opponents

Who is the most similar to Toney that Duran faced? BEnitez, but Benitez wasnt as powerful/physically strong

Who is the common opponent? Barkley, and Toney was far far more dominant

OK if Toney had 1 of his notorious off nights he may lose. But if he came along 2-3 years earlier and takes Barkleys place then Toney is winning a wide UD and maybe gives Duran a beating or even stops him because Toney would be up for that 1 like nothing else

[Mantequilla]

Barkley was a weight drained rapidly fading fighter when he fought Toney.he came back down from light heavy for that fight, as well as being past his prime.

IMo barkley was already looking really bad by the time of the Benn fight.By the time Toney got to him he had a fork sticking out of his ass.No jab, no balance...i could go on.

I expect Toney would have beaten him comfortably at any point in Iran's career, but that win is overblown as a showcase.barkley circa Olajide through Nunn was a much better fighter.

ANd toney isn't anything like Benitez or Barkley anyway.You thnk Duran is going to be trying to take the fight to Toney, like he did with Benitez...c'mon.

it's quite easy to see Duran frustrating and making things close against Toney, even if he doesn't win.James never had a aconsistent jab to rack up easy points and he's never been one for footwork if he can get away with it.

Duran would be tough for Nunn as well.At least as much as Starling.

It's the no nonsense mobile fighters that will have a comfortable night with middleweight Duran.

[PowerPuncher]

Barkley was a weight drained rapidly fading fighter when he fought Toney.he came back down from light heavy for that fight, as well as being past his prime.

IMo barkley was already looking really bad by the time of the Benn fight.By the time Toney got to him he had a fork sticking out of his ass.No jab, no balance...i could go on.

I expect Toney would have beaten him comfortably at any point in Iran's career, but that win is overblown as a showcase.barkley circa Olajide through Nunn was a much better fighter.

ANd toney isn't anything like Benitez or Barkley anyway.You thnk Duran is going to be trying to take the fight to Toney, like he did with Benitez...c'mon.

it's quite easy to see Duran frustrating and making things close against Toney, even if he doesn't win.James never had a aconsistent jab to rack up easy points and he's never been one for footwork if he can get away with it.

Duran would be tough for Nunn as well.At least as much as Starling.

It's the no nonsense mobile fighters that will have a comfortable night with middleweight Duran.

I'm not comparing Toney to Barkley I'm saying look how much more completely Toney dominated the same opponent, this is the only opponent we have to go off.

You forget to mention Barkley was only a year removed from beating HEarns again and 1year removed from capturing the IBF Super Middleweight crown, so whether he was drained at this weight or not is debatable because he only went to 175 to face Hearns again

Who in your opinion is the most similar styled opponent to Toney? for me its Benitez but give your thoughts. Did Duran do well against Defensively slick fighters? No, hence I cant see him doing well against a bigger harder hitting 1

I think the slick huge Nunn would be a bridge too far for Duran

BTW I'm a massive Duran fan but at middleweight against the very best hes just too small

[Manassa]

I think Duran would do pretty well against Hopkins (but still lose). Hagler could have probably overpowered Duran had he known it, but he overrated the ex-lightweight's danger rating, so he boxed him and didn't fare so well. I'd expect Hopkins to do as good as Hagler did, perhaps slightly better.

[Robbi]

I think Duran would do pretty well against Hopkins (but still lose). Hagler could have probably overpowered Duran had he known it, but he overrated the ex-lightweight's danger rating, so he boxed him and didn't fare so well. I'd expect Hopkins to do as good as Hagler did, perhaps slightly better.

Hopkins was good at using his height and keeping his opponents where he wanted them. I'd expect him to do better than Hagler did when he was cagey and cautious against Duran over the distance. I can't see Hopkins finishing against Duran with a puffed up left eye. While Hagler was a very resourceful fighter with his punches, Hopkins was even more. Lets not forget, while Hagler wasn't convincing in terms of how he dominated Duran he did win comfortably. He just wasn't authoritive with the way he went about his business. Hopkins beats Duran either way, in a war or a cagey fight.

I think Hopkins wins just as comfortable as Hagler did, excluding what the final cards said of the judges, but wins his rounds more comprehensively.

[slicksouthpaw16]

I don't think Slicksouthpaw has ever posted in a thread where he hasn't made a complete ass of himself.
You don't come with facts either, and also sound like someone who is just talking out of their ass and doesn't have any knowledge on the topic. How the hell is Duran out of shape when he just fought the biggest money fight and best opponent of his career that was in his prime and who is a top 10 great? FIVE months later. Get real.

[Sweet Pea]

You don't come with facts either, and also sound like someone who is just talking out of their ass and doesn't have any knowledge on the topic. How the hell is Duran out of shape when he just fought the biggest money fight and best opponent of his career that was in his prime and who is a top 10 great? FIVE months later. Get real.

He was out of shape because the rematch was scheduled so soon after numbnuts. Duran had a bad habit of blowing up due to constant eating, partying, and lack of dedication in between fights, and it was especially the case with a fight of that magnitude where he came in at his most motivated and achieved his greatest victory. A WW gaining and losing in excess of 50 pounds in between fights is not good, especially one with Duran's lifestyle out of the ring. He was never going to reach the kind of motivation he did in the first fight again, not directly after achieving and celebrating, and when you take into account how drained he was physically, as well as the other rumors that have been well documented involving cramps(and having the shits more or less) and the like, it's fairly obvious to anyone with a mere moeity of their marbles that he was nowhere near the same fighter as he was in the first fight. Anyone that actually watched the fight with open eyes and understood what they were watching would've seen that. You obviously don't qualify.

You're an imbecile, and you've proven it time and again. Why continue posting on a forum where you're continuously ridiculed and nobody wants you around? Think about it.

[mcvey]

:lol: You are begging to be on my ignore. First you challenge me for proof in that Jack Johnson thread, and when i give you the proof you completely ignore it and say that '' anyone writes articles''. Then you challenge me again and tell me to come up with more proof, then i accept it and you don't even respond to the post. Now, you call me a fool for stating MY opinion.
You have Never Given Proof ,of your previous statement,regarding Jeffries EVER going 40rds ,simply because he NEVER did,this is not the thread to revisit this,out of courtesy to the poster who started this thread I won't pursue it.On this topic ,you have read a book on Duran,and you now have "your knowledge about him",several posters have told you that Duran was not remotely in the same physical condition he was for the Montreal fight ,you have repeatedly said you can see no difference in his condtion in either fight.Do you think it possible the error is yours? Do you think it possible that you have failed to see the difference in a pumped up Duran spitting fire and belligerance fueled with real rancour towards Leonard ,and a disinterested self satisfied Champion who had spent five months eating himself out of shape,not to mention his nocturnal activities,[and Duran was a known cocks man]? Do you think you have missed something ,is it possible? Wether you put me on your ignore list is a matter of sublime indifference to me,to be frank , your opinion on boxing is valueless to me .

[mcvey]

I don't think Slicksouthpaw has ever posted in a thread where he hasn't made a complete ass of himself.
Give him his due ,he is consistant!

[mcvey]

Barkley was a weight drained rapidly fading fighter when he fought Toney.he came back down from light heavy for that fight, as well as being past his prime.

IMo barkley was already looking really bad by the time of the Benn fight.By the time Toney got to him he had a fork sticking out of his ass.No jab, no balance...i could go on.

I expect Toney would have beaten him comfortably at any point in Iran's career, but that win is overblown as a showcase.barkley circa Olajide through Nunn was a much better fighter.

ANd toney isn't anything like Benitez or Barkley anyway.You thnk Duran is going to be trying to take the fight to Toney, like he did with Benitez...c'mon.

it's quite easy to see Duran frustrating and making things close against Toney, even if he doesn't win.James never had a aconsistent jab to rack up easy points and he's never been one for footwork if he can get away with it.

Duran would be tough for Nunn as well.At least as much as Starling.

It's the no nonsense mobile fighters that will have a comfortable night with middleweight Duran.
Not in any way disagreeing with your post ,just wondering what the term a fork out of his ass means ,[I'm English]? Thanks in advance for the enlighten- ment.

[sp6r=underrated]

Not in any way disagreeing with your post ,just wondering what the term a fork out of his ass means ,[I'm English]? Thanks in advance for the enlighten- ment.

It means the person in question is washed up, finished, cooked. In american sports the expression is usually he's got a fork in his back

[mcvey]

I think Duran would do pretty well against Hopkins (but still lose). Hagler could have probably overpowered Duran had he known it, but he overrated the ex-lightweight's danger rating, so he boxed him and didn't fare so well. I'd expect Hopkins to do as good as Hagler did, perhaps slightly better.
Duran conned Hagler ,who was in his tentative mode as in his Antuofermo fight. Duran's head movement threw Haglers timing off ,imo.and hesitation set in too often,he won without doubt ,but it was not a dominating performance .Hopkins would win rather more emphatically I think.Hagler may have spoke a lot about destruct and destroy ,but usually he was a pragmatic ring mechanic.

[mcvey]

It means the person in question is washed up, finished, cooked. In american sports the expression is usually he's got a fork in his back
Thanks very much, I have learnt something new.

[Robbi]

Slicksouthpaw. Straight forward simple question. And do not mention Duran's name or the rematch with Leonard when you reply, please.


Do you think it's impossible for a fighter to have one fight where he wins and looks good, then 5 months later when stepping into the ring he looks poor due to weight making difficulties?

[slicksouthpaw16]

He was out of shape because the rematch was scheduled so soon after numbnuts. Duran had a bad habit of blowing up due to constant eating, partying, and lack of dedication in between fights, and it was especially the case with a fight of that magnitude where he came in at his most motivated and achieved his greatest victory.
Wouldn't you think he would have tried to follow up and do it again? He is not only a PROFESSIONAL but a legend, and he all of a sudden blows up and not is not as focused as he was before? When the fight is months later? That's just ridiculous. He did that in mostly all of his fights and he most likely did in their first fight as well, but of course since he lost, it doesn't matter and he was not at his best. :-(


A WW gaining and losing in excess of 50 pounds in between fights is not good, especially one with Duran's lifestyle out of the ring. He was never going to reach the kind of motivation he did in the first fight again, not directly after achieving and celebrating, and when you take into account how drained he was physically, as well as the other rumors that have been well documented involving cramps(and having the shits more or less) and the like, it's fairly obvious to anyone with a mere moeity of their marbles that he was nowhere near the same fighter as he was in the first fight. Anyone that actually watched the fight with open eyes and understood what they were watching would've seen that. You obviously don't qualify.

He wasn't going to reach that kind of motivation again? What convinces me that point is so ridiculous is the fact that he accomplished great things after Leonard, and including winning the junior middleweight title over the unbeaten favorite in Davey Moore, a fight in which i didn't see being very close. Duran destroyed Moore. He also went up to beat Iran Barkely( who beat Hearns twice) for the middleweight title and gave Hagler all he could handle, so you really have to come up with something else better than that. I seen the fight'' with open'' eyes, and i also seen that Duran was the same as he was in the first fight, and it was LEONARD that made corrected his tacticals mistakes that he made in the first fight. Did he not fight a better fight? Did he not control distance better and was he not more comfortable? He traded with Duran a lot and from early on, it was blakenly aparent that he didn't have the right mind set and let Duran get into his head. So like i said, the Leonard fans can use that as an excuse for Duran beating him in their first fight if people say that Duran was out of shape in their rematch.


You're an imbecile, and you've proven it time and again. Why continue posting on a forum where you're continuously ridiculed and nobody wants you around? Think about it.

:lol: Just stop it. With the exception or you and Mcvea( who i am about to put on ignore) no one is feeling this away besides you. I have people that i have brought from boxing-scene here and many people also have told me that i should post here instead of the other site. I can show you the posts as well, so i feel welcome. If you have that much of a problem, then you should have been put me on ignore.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Slicksouthpaw. Straight forward simple question. And do not mention Duran's name or the rematch with Leonard when you reply, please.

Why? When that's what the topic is on.:huh

Do you think it's impossible for a fighter to have one fight where he wins and looks good, then 5 months later when stepping into the ring he looks poor due to weight making difficulties?

In this case, yes it is especially when you are on the elite level and entering the second biggest fight of your life, and beat that top 10 great five months earlier. As i have said before and many observers around me have told me personally, that fans come up with this stuff to make their favorite fighter not look bad. In this thread, i didn't see no one mention what Leonard actually did, but instead heard excuses about Duran. Its just ridiculous. Leonard also beat him in their third fight when both of them were past their prime. I'm waiting for this one.

[Robbi]

Why? When that's what the topic is on.:huh



In this case, yes it is especially when you are on the elite level and entering the second biggest fight of your life and beat a top 10 great five months earlier.

You referred to the fight you tool. Awnser my question without Leonard-Duran in your mind. An isolated question.

Is it impossible for a fighter to look good in one fight, then 5 months later look poor due to balooning up in weight and struggling with the scales?

If 5 months isn't possible, what timescale is to you where it does become possible?

Nothing to do with elite level as people do different things between fights. Some fighters like Hopkins keep in shape and don't touch alcohol or junk food. Hopkins never went above 166lbs between fights at middleweight. Hatton loves pizza's and Guinness between fights and clearly gets out of shape. Both are elite level world champions.

Awnser my highlighted points please.

[slicksouthpaw16]

You referred to the fight you tool. Awnser my question without Leonard-Duran in your mind. An isolated question.

Is it impossible for a fighter to look good in one fight, then 5 months later look poor due to balooning up in weight and struggling with the scales?

If 5 months isn't possible, what timescale is to you where it does become possible?
I already answered your question. IN THIS CASE, yes its impossible. I have to use Duran because of the important facts that are there. He made the weight five months earlier, and didn't show any signs of fatigue or wearing down and the fight was actually somewhat close, and he physically looked the same that he had always been. If he would have won that fight, then people wouldn't have brought his weight up. It was what Leonard did. Here is the link to part one of the rematch.[Only registered and activated users can see links]

It was not even 50 minutes into the fight where Howard Cossell stated that Leonard was already giving Duran more movement then he did in their first fight.


I can go throw 100 fighters that have loss, and their fans just throw the ''weight drained'' excuse in there. Many boxing writers that i have spoke to told me this as well. They said that Adamek was weight drained when he fought Dawson, Jones was weight drained when he fought Tarver in the rematch( even though he beat him the first time) Tarver was weight drained against Hopkins, Corrales weight drained against Mayweather, Hatton weight drained against Mayweather, Leon Spinkis weight drained against Qawi, Mora weight drained against Forrest ectera. These are all fans.



Nothing to do with elite level as people do different things between fights. Some fighters like Hopkins keep in shape and don't touch alcohol or junk food. Hopkins never went above 166lbs between fights at middleweight. Hatton loves pizza's and Guinness between fights and clearly gets out of shape. Both are elite level world champions.

Awnser my highlighted points please.

Thanks, because Hatton is actually a perfect example, because i have never seen making weight effect him in fights at all and he like you said, he blows up to about 185 in between fights. He always has excellent condition.

[KOTF]

Hopkins via a very dull decision verdict where the crowd echos Leonard-Duran III and yells "bullshit" for how boring the fight is