Does Pavlik have to stop Taylor to win?

[warchild]

It seems to be popular opinion that Taylor has favor with the judges....so does Pavlik have stop Taylor in order to win? If the fight goes 12 rounds and is close, does Pavlik stand a chance of getting a decision?

Just for the record....

I have Taylor as 3-1-1 in title fights....wins over Hopkins in the rematch, Ouma, and Spinks, a loss to Hopkins in the first fight, and a draw with Wright.

and....

I think that for Pavlik to go toe to toe with Taylor would be a bad idea....Taylor can pull the trigger much faster than anyone who Pavlik has fought so far.

[bill poster]

Favour with judges?? expand

Pavliks high work rate dhould secure victory

[ironchamp]

To answer the thread yes....

Jermaine IMO is going to stop Pavlik...

[warchild]

Favour with judges?? expand

Pavliks high work rate dhould secure victory

What I mean by favour with the judges, is that many people seem to believe that if the match is a close one, that Taylor automatically gets the decision.

Personally, I think that it's been blown out of proportion....the decisions that Taylor has recieved were in fact in close fights, but they were by no means robberies.

[Boro chris]

The cash cow usually gets the benefit of the close decisions. Thats been Jermain in the past but Pavlik is looking very marketable.

[warchild]

To answer the thread yes....

Jermaine IMO is going to stop Pavlik...

I agree. Taylor may not be the most talented middleweight champ who there has been, but to meet him in a slugfest is foolish and is simply playing to his strengths, which is exactly what Pavlik is likely to do.

[Zakman]

Is the fight on HBO?? :huh :rofl

OF COURSE Pavlik has to obviously beat Jermain "Gift Decision" Taylor in order to dethrone HBO's annointed one. Shoot, his fights with Hopkins and Wright are clear evidence of this!! :patsch

Won't matter though - Pavlik is gonna knock this hype job out EARLY. There is a REASON Taylor has fought NOTHING but light-hitters from lower weight classes since Hopkins rocked him!!! :nod

No gift decision this time! Sorry, HBO! :lol:

[brooklyn1550]

Pavlik can win on points as well, but I really don't see it going to the scorecards. Pavlik will win this one by knockout.

[Deslizer]

This fight wont be near Arkansas, what seemed to affect the judges in the past (with a Taylor-crowd in their back).

If Pavlik shows a good workrate and puts enough pressure on Taylor for ~2/3 of the fight, he may not need a stoppage to win the fight.

[pipe wrenched]

Pavlik ko 7. But in regards to the initial question: My gut feeling is yes, he will need a ko to win IMO.

[Ramshall1]

I dont think so, people act as if Hops was robbed in those two fights. . . truth is they were very close and probably could have gone either way - no robbery. . . Im glad Hops lost though cause it was his style that made things boring, not Taylors.

[The Italarican]

Taylor will not have automatic favor with the judges in this fight. Two reasons for this:

1. Taylor may have appealed to judges slightly more in the Hopkins/Wright fights (I scored all the fights a draw and saw no bias) because the styles in the fight made him the aggressor. Hopkins was fairly inactive in the first half of both of their fights, and against Wright, Taylor was swinging hard and in the way that gets judges' attention. This time, he's facing a guy who will stay right at him and keep throwing. Assuming he fights along his typical gameplan, Pavlik will not look less active or less aggressive than Taylor and will get the judges' attention.

2. The HBO connection conspiracy theories are absurd, but let's assume they're true (which they're not). In any case, this would be a case of "What have you done for me lately?" Listening to the last 2 HBO telecasts of Taylor fights, they've been less than impressed and seem frustrated with him. Meanwhile, they gained a new darling in Pavlik, a young, undefeated, appealing middleweight (sound familiar?) who looked great on their station.

So there are your 2 best justifications for a conspiracy to keep Taylor on top, out the window. To top it off, win or lose he's disgarding the middleweight division after this fight, so there is no incentive to give him an edge and keep him along as champion. If you say it could set up a fight with Calzaghe/Kessler, they have Hopkins to easily fall back on. If it's to keep him undefeated, it's no big deal if they have Pavlik.

[pipe wrenched]

Taylor will not have automatic favor with the judges in this fight. Two reasons for this:

1. Taylor may have appealed to judges slightly more in the Hopkins/Wright fights (I scored all the fights a draw and saw no bias) because the styles in the fight made him the aggressor. Hopkins was fairly inactive in the first half of both of their fights, and against Wright, Taylor was swinging hard and in the way that gets judges' attention. This time, he's facing a guy who will stay right at him and keep throwing. Assuming he fights along his typical gameplan, Pavlik will not look less active or less aggressive than Taylor and will get the judges' attention.

2. The HBO connection conspiracy theories are absurd, but let's assume they're true (which they're not). In any case, this would be a case of "What have you done for me lately?" Listening to the last 2 HBO telecasts of Taylor fights, they've been less than impressed and seem frustrated with him. Meanwhile, they gained a new darling in Pavlik, a young, undefeated, appealing middleweight (sound familiar?) who looked great on their station.

So there are your 2 best justifications for a conspiracy to keep Taylor on top, out the window. To top it off, win or lose he's disgarding the middleweight division after this fight, so there is no incentive to give him an edge and keep him along as champion. If you say it could set up a fight with Calzaghe/Kessler, they have Hopkins to easily fall back on. If it's to keep him undefeated, it's no big deal if they have Pavlik.

Good post. My gut feels better.

[Boinko]

I dont think so, people act as if Hops was robbed in those two fights. . . truth is they were very close and probably could have gone either way - no robbery. . . Im glad Hops lost though cause it was his style that made things boring, not Taylors.

Yes, but you know how it is. For some fans, if the judges don't score a close fight exactly like they do, they scream robbery.
Since they can't bear the idea that Taylor may have won the Hopkins fights in the eyes of some, they start spouting HBO conspiracy theories.

I hope there is a KO in the Pavlik fight one way or another just so we don't have to hear whiners go on and on for months after the fight if it ends up being a close decision.

[thewoo]

Not really. When a fighter has that kind of rep it eventually works against him. The judges might judge him more harshly to avoid being criticised. Take DLH for example. After the Quartey and Whitikar decisions, he had a rep for getting gifts. As a result camp trinidad met with the judges behind closed doors with no one from Oscar's camp present before the fight to "make sure Tito got a fair playing field". We all know what happened there.

For the record. I had Taylor winning both hopkins fights, drawing with Wright and losing to spinks. I just didn't give a shit about the spinks fight cause it sucked so bad that niether guy really deserved to call himself a winner.

[The Italarican]

Yes, but you know how it is. For some fans, if the judges don't score a close fight exactly like they do, they scream robbery.
Since they can't bear the idea that Taylor may have won the Hopkins fights in the eyes of some, they start spouting HBO conspiracy theories.

I hope there is a KO in the Pavlik fight one way or another just so we don't have to hear whiners go on and on for months after the fight if it ends up being a close decision.

You better hope that KO is clear, clean, and without anything atypical happening beforehand because people complain even on stoppages. They can blame a headbutt or low blow (Cotto/Judah), unfair stoppage (Vitlay/Lewis), whatever. There's no avoiding the excuses, sadly.

[Marnoff]

No.

[Deslizer]

Taylor will win because.
He will jab...jab....jabThat's what Steward will tell him to do ... but sometimes Taylor does not the things Steward wants to see.

[BITCH ASS]

Taylor has to do more than jab. He needs to MOVE.

Also if it gets in a slugfest, Taylor is going to sleep.

[Thor]

Pavlik's "0" is gonna go.

[psychopath]

It seems to be popular opinion that Taylor has favor with the judges....so does Pavlik have stop Taylor in order to win? If the fight goes 12 rounds and is close, does Pavlik stand a chance of getting a decision?

Just for the record....

I have Taylor as 3-1-1 in title fights....wins over Hopkins in the rematch, Ouma, and Spinks, a loss to Hopkins in the first fight, and a draw with Wright.

and....

I think that for Pavlik to go toe to toe with Taylor would be a bad idea....Taylor can pull the trigger much faster than anyone who Pavlik has fought so far.

Irregardless how popular that opinion maybe . . . that's still baseless. If Pavlik will clearly beat Taylor in every round . . . I don't see him losing in the scorecards. But if he can K.O. Taylor that would more impressive.

On the last part on him going toe to toe with Taylor . . . I agree with you.

[The Italarican]

If it's in Memphis YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!

And even then it may still be ruled a draw.

I believe Atlantic City is now the official site.

[BITCH ASS]

Irregardless how popular that opinion maybe . . . that's still baseless. If Pavlik will clearly beat Taylor in every round . . . I don't see him losing in the scorecards. But if he can K.O. Taylor that would more impressive.

On the last part on him going toe to toe with Taylor . . . I agree with you.

He went toe to toe with Winky and Ouma.

He didn't KO them.

You think he could KO Pavlik? :rofl

[warchild]

He went toe to toe with Winky and Ouma.

He didn't KO them.

You think he could KO Pavlik? :rofl

I do. Wright is defensively sound....I haven't seen the Ouma fight. Pavlik gets hit quite a bit from what I've seen....he outlasts his opponents with determination and firepower. If Pavlik goes toe to toe with Taylor, it's possible that he'll get slammed more than he can handle.

[Napoleon]

If he wins all 12 rounds, then maybe, just maybe, the judges will give him a split decision.

[psychopath]

He went toe to toe with Winky and Ouma.

He didn't KO them.

You think he could KO Pavlik? :rofl

Hey straighten up your comprehension. I said I agree with the last part of the thread starter's comment where he said " Taylor can pull the trigger much faster than anyone who Pavlik has fought so far."

Anyway just because he didn't KOed Ouma and Winky doesn't mean he has no chance of KOing Pavlik. Different fighters, different fighting styles, different timing and fighters come in in different psychological state and different physical condition on every fight. Wake up buddy and live with reality . . . I'm not discounting Taylor knocking out Pavlik. :yep

[Jinx]

Taylor's quicker hands will win him the fight against Pavlik...Taylor has the advantage in a boxing match or a slugfest because of his handspeed...but i don't think Taylor will slug because it gives Pavlik a good chance...

[psychopath]

If he wins all 12 rounds, then maybe, just maybe, the judges will give him a split decision.

:lol: :lol: :happy :happy

Maybe? Just maybe?

That's exactly what I'm saying . . . it's baseless! That idea was born out of the Taylor HATERS effort of trying to discredit and pull down the guy. :D

[Hrak]

Both guys can KO eachother in this fight, IMO this fight will come down to who has the better conditioning. Both guys will have their moments, but whoever can manage to be the fresher fighter in the late rounds will take the decision on late tko. One thing im sure of though is that Pavlik will not be able to blow out Jermain Taylor in the earlie rounds.

[JAM Killer]

Taylor is an extremely favorite with the judges. I will put it like this, out of his 5 championship fights his record is 4-0-1, I think it should look like this, 1-3-1.

So it would benefit Pavlik to not put himself in that position to be judged.

But to really answer the question, no he does not need to stop Taylor to win, he is a more complete fighter, but Taylor is a winner. That is why this fight is a tossup.

I favor Taylor.

[paulfv]

It seems to be popular opinion that Taylor has favor with the judges....so does Pavlik have stop Taylor in order to win? If the fight goes 12 rounds and is close, does Pavlik stand a chance of getting a decision?

Just for the record....

I have Taylor as 3-1-1 in title fights....wins over Hopkins in the rematch, Ouma, and Spinks, a loss to Hopkins in the first fight, and a draw with Wright.

and....

I think that for Pavlik to go toe to toe with Taylor would be a bad idea....Taylor can pull the trigger much faster than anyone who Pavlik has fought so far.


If I'm Pavlik that's how I would approach it. Between HBO's biased commentary and what happened to Hopkins both times (particularly the 1st time), I would be telling myself "I need to stop this guy." And that's exactly what I think KP will do.

This is not going to be an easy fight for KP, IMO. It's kind of like Calzaghe-Kessler: The taller guy hits harder but is more robotic and slower than the smaller guy. Unlike Calzaghe, however, not only has Taylor not gotten better, he's regressed. For goodness' sakes, he had Cory Spinks backing him up!

I think if Pavlik is disciplined he will eventually 'catch up' to or 'time' Taylor. When he does, it's over. Taylor's chin isn't anywhere close to Miranda's, IMO. And neither is his punch.

[Brickhaus]

Absolutely not. The reason Taylor was able to win rounds against the the other four is because in each of those matchups, Taylor was the harder puncher, so even though he landed less against a couple of them, his punches were still more effective. Taylor won't have that advantage over Pavlik.

[Toopretty]

yes, Pavlik will have problems with taylors constant heavy jab. And remember miranda was able to hit pavlik with his wild clumsy slow power punches. So taylor is going to throw his str8 punches down the pipe. Taylor better not miss a step though. He needs to bring his legs.

[JETSKI]

If I'm Pavlik that's how I would approach it. Between HBO's biased commentary and what happened to Hopkins both times (particularly the 1st time), I would be telling myself "I need to stop this guy." And that's exactly what I think KP will do.

This is not going to be an easy fight for KP, IMO. It's kind of like Calzaghe-Kessler: The taller guy hits harder but is more robotic and slower than the smaller guy. Unlike Calzaghe, however, not only has Taylor not gotten better, he's regressed. For goodness' sakes, he had Cory Spinks backing him up!

I think if Pavlik is disciplined he will eventually 'catch up' to or 'time' Taylor. When he does, it's over. Taylor's chin isn't anywhere close to Miranda's, IMO. And neither is his punch.

Thats what I like to hear.:good

[Mendoza]

It seems to be popular opinion that Taylor has favor with the judges....so does Pavlik have stop Taylor in order to win? If the fight goes 12 rounds and is close, does Pavlik stand a chance of getting a decision?

Just for the record....

I have Taylor as 3-1-1 in title fights....wins over Hopkins in the rematch, Ouma, and Spinks, a loss to Hopkins in the first fight, and a draw with Wright.

and....

I think that for Pavlik to go toe to toe with Taylor would be a bad idea....Taylor can pull the trigger much faster than anyone who Pavlik has fought so far.

No. Pavlik can win on points. Taylor has great physical gifts, but he doesn’t like the rough stuff. I have seen Taylor shy away from the action and give up rounds.

[BITCH ASS]

My feelings exactly. I rewatched the Winky vs Taylor fight and I winched at how many power bombs Taylor landed on Winky, and Winky has a brickwall defense. How is Pavlik gonna hold up under that kind of abuse (for 12 rounds) with his paper thin defense?:?

What's your excuse for Ouma?

[MrStayman]

Yes.

[Zakman]

Clearly. Just look at the scorecards before Pavlik starched him.

They were all set to do to Pavlik what they did to Hopkins and Wright! :yep

[Korn_06]

The judges scorecards were really the sad thing in this fight. I dont think that HBO cares if they make money from Pavlik or from Taylor but somebody did something. It is very strange that ALL judges had it for Taylor by such margins. Even Taylor was feeling that he was loosing on the cards. Who was the guardian angel?